My conflict with my daughters 3rd grade teacher

When I was in 6th grade (only 15 yrs ago) our whole class had to stay in at recess in one of those if-one-person-acts-out-the-whole-class-misses-recess situations. I told the teacher it was not fair, since it was quite obvious who caused the disturbance. Then I got "Well, life's not fair." That wasn't good enough for me, because in this instance she had the opportunity to make it fair, but CHOSE not to. But like you said, the manifest function of public education is socialization, and education itself is a latent function. They taught me that at the liberal factory where I got my worthless sociology degree. If I ever have kids, and it's still legal, I'm homeschooling them.

People that want to make excuses in favor of ‘public’ school teachers are desirous of promoting the state monopoly of indoctrination. Ron Paul wants to eliminate the Dept. of Ed because it is the garden of Marxism. It is the parent’s responsibility to educate their children, not the state or their neighbors. The statistics and research are in on homebased education, www.NHERI.org. You folks that hand your children over to the state to be “educated” should not be surprised when they return home Romans. Teachers are not the problem, the state system is the problem and people that support the state monopoly promote the problem.

ESPECIALLY in educators! I feel for Lori, she is trying to do what what she earnestly believes to be true: protect little children from their "whacko" parents. I assure you, visions of FLDS are dancing through her head.
Can you pull in the dogs a bit, and "be Ron Paul?" Quietly, calmly and oh, so rationally, show her the statistics?
Me? Heck no, I start crying evey time I try to talk, but it looks good in print, doesn't it? lol!

While I understand your concerns, I believe your are in the wrong here. First off, it is clear to everyone on this forum that the government infused public school system is greatly flawed. However your taking your anger out in an extremely rude and accusatory way on the wrong person. Most teachers become teachers simply because they want to teach. Because they want to help children. It is not until they are in the system that they find out all the stipulations and regulations forced upon their teaching that is out of their control. It is doing you, your child and her teacher no good to be alienating and accusing her in this manner when I would assume she's trying her best and a bad situation.

Further more, while public school may be flawed it is not the evil demon you make it out to be. It teaches you social interaction, and allows you to make friends that you will have for a lifetime. It introduces you to all different types of people (including bullies) and allows you to learn from them and understand what the real world is actually like. It teaches you to adhere to schedules like you will need after school and while we all hate homework as children, it is not a bad thing as it teaches us the valuable lesson that in life and our jobs there are hard deadlines for things (paying bills, finishing work) that will have hard consequences if not adhered to. Finally and simply, it does actually teach you. The learnings may not be what you preach but there is a lot to learn from a public education and just because you don't agree with it doesn't make it wrong.

To allow your child to grow, the best thing to do (only in my opinion) would be to keep them in public school and then when they come home spend an hour a day or a few hours a week teaching them what you'd like them to know (telling them this is another side to it, not the right side or wrong). Then they can compare and decide for themselves what they believe.

Bravo for taking a stand against the public school system. I am homeschooling my 17 yo son and have done so since he was in the 1st grade. He experienced public preschool where the teacher punished him for not drawing a smiley face the way she thought it should be done...he dare not use any creativity! Kindergarten was even worse...the teacher actually scolded a little girl in my son's class who was smiling and laughing by telling her "we don't laugh in this classroom!" and finally half way through 1st grade I'd had enough of what they consider education. We've happily home-schooled ever since and I highly recommend it!

im so impressed, i went thru this a few month s ago,,,except the punishment that time was that she didnt let my son attend lunch with the rest of the class, he had to stay in classroom with his teacher while she ate her lunch in front of him till it was done, then get lunch tray and bring it back and eat it,,,all within 30 minutes........im italian, meals to my family are practiacally holy and i dont think meals should be hurried and stressful especially for a young boy.anyhow i met with principal who unbelievably told me that was their policy and their "weapon".....im seriously thinking about homeschooling, but you know the control grid is doing its best to criminalize homeschooling in the near future....it reminds me of nazi germany.......

Kudos Greg!!!
what I don't get is everyone taking up for these teachers....a teacher is someone who teaches a child to think for themselves. I hear nobody has seen or heard of that since the 60's, Since today it is merely teaching memorization of their facts and where do those come from? Teachers may have a hard time with some "active" children....so they either force medication on them...
The state started the problem by saying if you discipline your own child we will take them away...
These are nothing but indoctrination centers and the teachers know it...

you couldnt have been a little kinder.
She's just doing her job.
Maybe the whole class did something together, like in
the movie A Christmas Story, she said you misunderstood.

I feel sorry for public school teachers, they get a lot of crap
and they're trying their best in a messed up
system equally the fault of the govt and the lazy parents.

is trying to get you to loose your temper, so she can say, see he is a crazy person - and take focus away from the incident. you may be better off going to the principal rather than email sniping back and forth.

...to get government out of the business of education.

My son is in a private school - 1st Grade. It's significantly better than public school, but is not perfect.

One thing I tell all my mom friends, no matter where our children are schooled, is that it is up to us to educate our children. It is US they listen to. It is their home life that will influence and shape their future. "Schools" are just supplemental information providers that can be filtered out, and our kids do know that.

The same holds true for the poorest in our society, but with the opposite results.
Here's something to ponder over: Let's take the poor kids - white or black. We hear the statistics of how much T.V. the average American kid watches, right? Most shows use proper English on them, right? And these same kids go to schools where the teachers, at least, speak proper English, right? Then why do these children from lower socio-economic status butcher the English language with double negatives, etc.? This also shows how the home influence prevails - generation after generation. Which is better?

The bar is not high enough for us to go to public school. At least in private school they need your tuition and will listen to your concerns. We wish we could home school full time - both of us work - but we are always teaching, especially OUR values.

Good Luck to you and your daughters!

I congratulate you on taking your children out of public school and homeschooling them. I was homeschooled all 12 years and actually feel sorry for those that didn't get the opportunity to be homeschooled. John Dewey and other progressive educator's goal was to give children a collectivist mindset. They discovered that this was best accomplished by not teaching children to read. As you mentioned, they replaced the traditional phonics method with the whole-word method. The horrible illiteracy rates caused Rudolf Flesch to write "Why Johnny Can't Read."

I would suggest that maybe in future e-mails shorten them and make cut out some of the rambling. I'm sure your concerns are legitimate, but there's no need for it that much description. I'd also leave out the attacks/accusations of tyranny. Don't scare the poor woman. It's not like she's in on it, plotting to dumb down your kids or anything. In reality, she as the teacher has very little control.

I went to public schools (just graduated from high school last year). They worked out great for me... I think they're ok, but if you have concerns, you don't necessarily need to home school your kids, just reaffirm what you want them to know. So, if they don't teach enough about the Constitution, current events, or history, that's your obligation.

If you have a concern about recess, then just ask her about that... don't come off calling her a liar either.... Just ask if she's been giving recess. If she was then you can ask why. If you disagree then say so. Then try and compromise so you can make sure your child gets what's important to you in her education.

your first email was rambling. while you make some good points, I don't think you're going to get anywhere preaching at her (not to mention disrespecting her time by writing such a long email).

I would suggest if you want to resolve some of these conflicts, stick to the issue at hand: don't let it get personal by bringing in your bitterness toward the school system.

My son got called to the principal's office the other day. Luckily my son actually has a decent principal. I'm not so sure about the teachers, but the principal actually has her head on her shoulders.

The teacher sent my 14 year old son to the principal's office because she saw a swastika drawn on the cover of his notebook. My son has really taken hold of this whole "America is going from freedom to fascism" idea... mainly because of what teach him at home. (And what he teaches me. He was actually trying to straighten me out on some of this stuff when I was a die-hard, brain-washed, neo-con loving freak... not much more than a year ago. I voted for Bush both times before I came to my senses.)

Anyway, he's writing a book, or an essay, on power and politics. On the cover of his book is a drawing of a swastika, an American flag, a hammer and sickle, and a few other political/national symbols. The swastika is what got his teacher's attention. Rather than asking him why he had drawn the symbol for Nazi power on his notebook, she sent him to the principal's office.

The principal actually handled the situation very well. She didn't call us, the parents. She didn't reprimand the child. She simply asked why he had drawn the symbol on his notebook and he told her. She told him it was ok and sent him back to class. No harm, no foul.

I could see how it might have turned out very differently.

The funny thing is, no one complimented the child on the fact that he's writing an essay about politics and power on his own. That he's doing extra work just because he's interested in the subject. Of course, most of the students in his class call him a conspiracy theorist... yes... it's true... funny how young they start them on their road to statism.

Wow! A lot of good responses. Thanks for the advice, links and info. I added a lot of links into my homeschooling bookmarks. This is just one of many issues I have had with my kids teachers this year. All my kids are in the advanced/gifted programs at their schools which are kind of a joke. The reading ability of other kids in these programs is not very good. I taught my kids to read using this book; "Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons." Worked very well. My son who is in 1st grade finished the book just before he turned 5 and at that point was reading at the second grade level. He now reads at grade 4+. I was able to get him out of kindergarten and into first grade even though he wasn't old enough according to "policy." During that process I was told by the principle of his school to "leave the teaching to the professionals." That ticked me off but since she was working with me to let him move up to first grade I let it slide. He is the best reader in that class.
Teaching my children to read successfully has given me the confidence to start homeschooling and also to fight back against the system this whole school year. It is frustrating but I have got some concessions from them. I have had enough though and this will be it for them. The control they exert over children is wrong and I won't let my kids be subject to it anymore.

You wrote: "Every day she begs me to pull her out of school. She can't wait to be free of useless, counter productive mind-numbing busy work called homework. I have told her repeatedly I don't care if she does it or not and in fact I suggest to her not to. But I guess she has been institutionalized already as she wants to do it because she is afraid she will get "marked down" for not.."

Your household conversations sound like mine. My daughter will be HS'd after this year is out. You might find this resourceful, I did: http://www.dailypaul.com/...

I'd point out the credentials and the public records law thing are just a signature tag. Just because she's educated doesn't mean she's smart.

However, at this point you take it to the next level. But before you do that, double check the FL laws on the homeschooling and your educational rights in regards to your daughter. You don't want to get into the mess that happened out here in CA.

I'd also recommend a healthy beware of the CPS (or whatever name Social Services uses in FL) as the screwl district might get those kidnappers involved.

Also, check out the Separation of School and State Alliance for some resources, and Google Suzanne Shell as well.

When my son was 5, in kindergarten, he and another child were discussing a new cartoon show explaining their interpretation of the characters and daydreaming about how they wanted to immulate them. The little boy said "when I grow up I want to become a scientist and kill you" and my son said "oh yeah, I'll become one and destroy you." Well the hall monitor heard this reported it to the teacher and she to the principal who had the school safety officer bring my child home in a squad car suspended for three days for making terroristic threats. It in itself was terroristic to my son to be the accused of something he couldn't even pronounce much less be capable of, as well as the thrilling ride in the car by an armed officer. So that began my search for alternatives and the discovery of an amazing new life enriched with a deep respect for lifelong learning and freedom. It can be daunting searching through all the programs out there. and most new homeschoolers wonder if they themselves can break free from the indoctrination they were injected with. I say due diligence will pay and trust yourselves. My child is self directed in every subject but math and reading. I trust him to seek out the answers to questions and make his life full of interest and intrigue. I found time4learning.com this spring and I cannot not say enough about it. Just check it out, it took two years to find myself able to feel confident and organized with his curriculum. It breaths: knowledge, flows in and out and be encouraged that it naturally to evolves into everything your child can describe themselves as for they are already everything they need to be.

Next story:
I have two teenage daughters in public school. They go to the number 1 highschool in the state with a 89% rate of kids going on to graduate college. In this school they have become honor students. Well, my daughter went to school sick friday ( I had to make her go because of the threating letter that I recieved that week explaining that she has had ten excused absences and any others would result in them sending her name into the juv system for truancy-no choices just chains people). She was called to the office because a sub said was doing work from another class in her Alg 2 class. Lectured by the principal who refused her explanation that she was using that class time as a rational use of time to catch up on research for another project. and that she had completed any work in the class she was in she became upset and began to cry. She said she was trying to negotiate her perspective on the issue and come to an amicable understanding. He didn't budge and excused her. On her way out the door she said "I hate this f'ing school" not aware that she was in earshot, he stormed out after her grabbed her on the arm and told her he could have her taken out of the school in handcuffs and put in jail. What about "your going to detention, your in ISS for three days (all of which I would oppose to) anything but a threat of incarceration. The older children become the more they are challenged in their civil freedoms in public school as soon as they learn self expression they are in danger. Now she wants to quit and I am not so sure thats a bad idea. There are alternatives now. We have to bend and bow to power hungry people and when we disagree we are the fringe, kooky, and anything else they want to call us. They do believe they are serving these children and for some children it is fine, but for me and my family we will serve the Lord and educate ourselves as best we can.

While I too have my problems with public school, I have some problems with this discourse. First, no mention is made of the actual infraction that resulted in the punishment. In the teacher's defense, teachers today have very few recourses for punishment when a student misbehaves. I remember when I went to school, they allowed the principal to give spankings under certain circumstances (and I must confess that I deserved it! ;-) ), but now such options are simply not available.

Before we get all bent out of shape over this, we need to seriously consider when the teacher is coming from. My mother worked as a sixth grade teacher for one year in public school. She had once student who was a serious problem in her class, but his mother thought that he was perfect. Every form of punishment by mom tried to implement was thwarted: no detention, no timeouts, no extra homework, and no staying in for recess. How bad was he? He was pulled knives on other kids on the playground, but there was nothing my mother could do about it! The mother and the principal were completely against any form of punishment.

My problem is not that the teacher was too strict, but that the parent here may not have been strict enough. If keeping the child in for recess is too much, then offer a different solution. I see no mentioning of an alternate solution here.

Teachers are under a lot of different pressures today, and a lot of what they have to teach is dictated by the federal and state governments. To cast all of the blame and dispersions upon them is unfair and, in many cases, simply untrue. There are many dedicated and hard working teachers in the public school system who are trying to do their best to educate your children under the serious constraints placed upon them. Give them a break.

We are only hearing one side of this argument and even less about the details on the situation (history, the type of infraction, etc.), so it really is impossible to make a concrete judgment. However, there are some warning flags to me. I just wanted to offer food for thought.

Great post

i agree with you 100%. i have no kids nor do i want any, but if i did they wouldn't be allowed to go near a public school for "educational" purposes. of course i'd let them go cheer on the team so they could be around other kids.

you won't get any argument out of me when you take kids out of a system that lets 20% of the people graduate even though they can't find their home state on a map.

your ruining your kids social lives. i've never met a homeschooler that wasn't a weirdo

Per your email:
"I could take her out sooner but I want her and my older daughter to realize what is going on and have the basis to compare and contrast a real education where learning truth and the capacity to think is the central focus as opposed to being regimented, controlled and force fed propaganda. "

However long they've been there is likely already long enough (too long). It doesn't matter if they've only been attending there for one day; they clearly have sufficient basis with which to compare public school with actual education.

And honestly, you don't need to prove to your kids how bad public school is by keeping them in that horrid institution. I'm certain you wouldn't deliberately expose your kids to other bad things in order to "show" them how bad those things are.

If you plan to pull them out anyway, then pull them out now. Carpe diem.

I completely agree with you about wanting to homeschool your kids. I went to private and public school and I sure know it that public school is a nightmare!

However, I'm a little concerned about how it would be best to persuade that teacher or people like that in the future. Perhaps she would have been more likely to listen to your ideas and take them into serious consideration if you had said to her that you are sympathetic to her wanting to take away her students' recess time. Especially since she probably has a class of 30 with no one else to help her deal with their behavioral problems when all she is trying to do is teach. Then it might have been a good idea for you to "suggest" that maybe it would be more beneficial to give the students rewards when they are good or to consider solely punishing those few children who act out.

Save yourself some grief. The public education drones will not change.

I had my two kids in public schools, and it was one battle after another. I wanted to pull them out, but my husband was against it, which I did't understand, because he had a difficult time in school. A gifted HS dropout. ...who later got two BS degrees, and a Masters in Computer Science.
Both my kids were fluent readers prior to kindergarden. Both were eager to learn, and read books that matched whatever their interests were at the time. Both had high IQ's and it was exciting to see them embrace reading and learning. School was just a 6 hour time sync, and as time went on, killed their passion for learning. I wasn't the type of parent that complained that my kids were challenged enough, Although I did asked once, if my son could just sit in the corner and read a book, while the kids were reviewing the ABCs. I was told that I was not qualified to teach my kids the ABC's much less reading, and I was creating learning problems that they had to undo. WTF..?! The kids were already fluent readers?! I knew from then on, that school was just ranch and the kids were just a cattle herd, and I as a parent should just butt out.

I did however complain about bullying. I was told that the bullying my son was experiencing everyday, was just part of learning about lifes pecking order. Middle school was hell, and after another student stepped on, and broke his hand, we pulled him out and put him in a small private school. He did better there, but I think the emotional damage had taken the its toll. By the time he was in HS, he hated school, and had no motivation. My son with a 140 IQ, almost didn't graduate High School. My daughter had some bullying in grade school, but was popular in High School, as for academics, she did just enough to get by.

I hate the public school system, and I really regret not pulling them out. It took a little over a year after HS for my son to get his head together. Both of my kids are in college now, and both are doing really well. She has 3.7gpa, and my son has a 3.4 gpa. Both do alot of outdoor activities, expecially my son, who has changed the most. He quit smoking, and other unhealthy habits, exercises everyday, and has lost a lot of weight, and has really transform himself both physically and mentally.

IMHO really think, he just had to detox himself from the 12 years of BS he was subject to.

If you want to take your kid out and home school, bravo to you. Do it already or tell your kid to game the system just long enough for her get out. I agree with much that you have to say but she's right on the rambling and your tone paints you as pain in the ass. Also, it's not your responsibility to police the recess time of other kids. That's their parent’s job, and you should stay out of their business. It was a good call to talk to the other parents about the issue but that's where your responsibility stops. Let the other parents make their own choices.