Freemasons have been historic defenders of Liberty
If we want to talk about Freemasons let's use this thread.
Many masons strongly belive in Americanism and strongly support Ron Paul. Your assertion is wrong.
This like saying all Americans are neocons because some neocons come from America.
How do you explain these facts.
8 signers of the Declaration of Independence
13 Signers of the US Constitution
33 Generals in the Revolutionary War
All Freemasons. All fighters for the Cause of Liberty
"Some of the greatest names of the American Revolution were Masons: Ethan Alien, Edmund Burke, John Claypoole, William Daws, Benjamin Franklin, John Hancock, John Paul Jones, Robert Livingston, Paul Revere, Colonel Benjamin Tupper, and George Washington. Of the 56 signers of The Declaration of Independence, eight were known Masons and seven others exhibited strong evidence of Masonic membership. Of the forty signers of the Constitution, nine were known Masons, 13 exhibited evidence of Masonic membership, and six more later became Masons.
"There were many other Masonic influences in early American history: (1) Lafayette, the French liaison to the Colonies, without whose aid the war could not have been won, was a Freemason; (2) the majority of the commanders of the Continental Army were Freemasons and members of "Army Lodges"; (3) most of George Washington's generals were Freemasons; the Boston Tea Party was planned at the Green Dragon Tavern, also known as the "Freemasons' Arms" and "the Headquarters of the Revolution"; (4) George Washington was sworn in as the first President of the United States by Robert Livingston, Grand Master of New York's Masonic lodge, and the Bible on which he took his oath was from his own Masonic lodge; and (5) the Cornerstone of the Capital Building was laid by the Grand Lodge of Maryland."
Some other facts:
One of the first groups that Hitler attacked was the Freemasons.
Of course Washington had good reason to protect whiskey product
Another point I disagree with Washington is his view about farming. For anyone who has read his writtings about new farming technology, it appears that he foresaw and supported the future corporation of farms as superior and necessary to replace the small farmer.
grant
Everyone makes mistakes.
We all know George Washington was a Mason. Whether or not he was a good man, not for me to judge. But I do wish he hadn't killed those Revolutionaries who were using whiskey as money; the Whiskey rebellion. Imagine, if whiskey or better yet a purer alcohol was money today, we could produce it at home and trade it as energy for people to run their cars with.
grant
Yep, that's how they get ya
.....
It's easier to just seek within.
Seems you prefer to keep searching for secrets.
Perhaps you should go to the old testament and read carefully through Samuel and both books of Kings. Of course you won't find Ja bul on written there, but you will see what it means.
grant
what about Jabulan?3 headed god?
PAGANS!!!!
I can't imagine being bound to any master.
As a true mason, someone who knows how to build with mortar and stone yet not bound by "any" oath or secret; it is difficult to imagine being bound to any master. Slaves are bound to masters; truely free men seek knowledge whether it be through a master (teacher) or via the school of hard knocks (like a pirate).
I've heard your conversation before Armor777 and eventhough you say you are not a Mason, aware of it or not you use tools of masonry. In fact anyone who has read the bible (not just the easy parts), aware or not comes across tools of masonry.
My point is that it is foolish to throw the bible at a Mason.
As for me, I will seek the kingdom of God within me, which is what the bible has written in it, and is what Christ our brother and a good master (teacher) taught.
grant
amen. very nicely said.
amen. very nicely said.
Shriners give so much money
Shriners give so much money to charity.. I have been to their old dance hall and I have seen how much they have done for people. I know people who are secretive and live away from the pack or in a "club" tend to be persecuted as well. Good points of this thread..I know Mason's are not all bad at all!
And maybe
10% goes to the kids..the rest goes down the black hole of the NWO
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Hitler's third way.
As you say at the end of the article, Hitler's regime attacked the Freemasons. The fact is that the Nazi's, abbrieviation for National Socialists, entered into German lodges and stole documents and other materials, they tortured members to gain secrets for which they later infiltrated the ranks. So any secrets once held by Freemasons most probably are not all that secret any more.
You could say it is kind of like the film starwars with both a light and dark side to the force. The priests or masters are able to lead people astray if their heart so allows it.
Of course as a true mason, someone who knows how to build with mortar and stone and not bound by any secret, I know that 13 inches is equal to 33 centimeters. Just like the 13th level of the York rite is equal to the 33rd level of the Scottish rite.
grant
Just a reminder
Seems like I have to bump this each week there is a misguided post about the Masons.
So
Mr. Masonic apologist, tell me all about Baphomet and Jabulon.
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I am a Christian and a Mason
Should I judge my Chrisitian Faith based upon what these groups say?
http://www.religion-cults...
Well c'mon then Mr. Mason
Tell us alllll about Baphomet Ja-Bul-On. Enlighten us "profane" little "GOYIM".
Don't want to answer that one??...hmm..I wonder why
BTW, you can't serve two masters, so you better figure out who you serve.
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"If good government is to be restored, all Masons must be purged from public office" - Rayback
I'm still waiting
You haven't answered my question about Baphomet and Ja-Bul-On yet, Mr. Mason. What's wrong? let me keep repeating those names so others reading this will go look them up: Baphomet, Ja-Bul-On...Baphomet, Ja-Bul-On ....Baphomet, Ja-Bul-On ...Baphomet, Ja-Bul-On ...Baphomet, Ja-Bul-On ..Baphomet, Ja-Bul-On ..Baphomet, Ja-Bul-On.. Baphomet, Ja-Bul-On
I am concrned with preserving liberty
not vain superstitions.
Shaka
Blam. Shut him down. Good for you Repub-liberty. I have been fighting fire with fire. So if you see some of my crazy posts against Armor know I side with masons.
Well, of course you do
you're bound by a bloody oath to do so.
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Ahaaaaa
Armorofcreep you have failed again.
Come up with a new line, troll
perhaps one with some substance.
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Please look up the definition of "paranoid schizophrenia".
Many of the people posting here are borderline, and some have crossed the line long ago. Please name one person who you know for a fact, and can provide documentation for, who is "higher" than 33rd degree. Freemasons around the world would like to meet such a person. If anyone claims to have more degrees than 33rd, then they are not a part of AF & AM. Oh, that is right! In your paranoid delusions you know more about Freemasonry than the "average" Mason. How silly of me. How could I not understand that people who are not something know more about it than people who are. So let ME tell you what it is like to be YOU! Since I am not you I must know more about what it is like to be you. Especially since I have never met you or talked to you, but I did see something written by someone else, and heard a couple things, so I must be an expert on you.
I'd say the paranoid ones are those
that think there are terrorists under their beds.
Of course, you, "the insider", assures us that there is nothing odd about the occultic symbols and pagan rituals utilized by the Masons; or the fact that everyone must take a bloody oath of allegiance and secrecy. It's perfectly normal for members of charitable organizations to be under the threat of a violent death for revealing those harmless, benign, Masonic secrets. It's all coincidental that William Morgan was killed right after writing "Illustrations of Freemasonry", and Steven Knight after writing "The Brotherhood". There's nothing strange about Aleister Crowley, the most wicked man of the 20th century joining the Masons at 33rd degree since he was already well-versed in the occult.
Now, I'm waiting for you to call me "profane" or "goyim" and dare me to become "illuminated".
So, why don't you tell me about Baphomet and Jah-Bul-On?
Spot on AOC777
You can't forget Manly P. Hall and Albert Pike. Take a look at these guys. It's a death cult. There is a statue of Albert Pike in front of the "Justice" center in Washington DC. Our whole court system is based on masonry. The judge wears a black robe the color of death. The Judge rules for the bank. bank comes from the italian word banco which means bench. I could go on and on.
Ben Franklin belonged to the hell fire club. they have found skeletons in the dirt of his basement.
Thaz right
skeletons of children..most likely sexually abused then murdered in Satanic rituals. That's where the kids on the back of milk cartons are going too...
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BTW, dogstar, glad we finally agree on something...keep researching these same topics. Maybe eventually you'll change your view about the new Zeitgiest movie.
Here's the key date.
Adam Weishaupt of the Illuminati infiltrated Freemasonry in 1776.
You'll note that most of the people you mention as Freemasons were involved prior to this date, and at least George Washington(perhaps more) did not associate with Freemasonry much after that time.
Yes. I recall a letter Washington wrote stating this.
The important thing to remember was that the founders were 'infiltrated' by the tyrants themselves. Once tyrants got their foot in the door, they saw how they could infiltrate the money system especially. It doesn't take half a brain to realize what really took place back then.
Our founders were fiercely moral people who gave their all for this dream of freedom from tyranny not just for themselves but for all those who come in good faith.
Let's add another instance bigger than the American Revolution
The Peasants' Revolt in Britain, which was organized and funded by the hunted Templars (the predecessors of modern Freemasons), which had already gone underground at that point, is deemed by most historians as the beginning of the end of serfdom and feudalism in favor of classical liberalism, and is undeniably the largest revolt against monarchy during the medieval days of Europe.
Believe it or not, the catalyst for that revolt was a tax.
Back to our Future
I don't have a problem with free masons till they use their influence to cheat me by prefferential membership at the job or bank.
says
Cheated?
Who are you to have an inherent right to do business with any entity? There is no mandate for some entity to interact with you in a professional context.
If Masons want to do business with other Masons, then so be it.
Gee, it's just so obvious
that Masons will get big loans because they will use that money to advance the NWO agenda. And anyone who has been passed over for a promotion in favor of somone who's in the good 'ol boys club will understand what this guy is talking about.
Vuck, you are a typical disinfo troll. You constantly spew lies and distortions. No wonder you defend this Satanic cult.
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"If good government is to be restored all Masons must be purged from public office". - Rayback
"When psychopaths are involved, conspiracy is no longer just within the realm of possiblity, it becomes PROBABLE.
Can you see the Earth from that far out?
it's just so obvious that Masons will get big loans because they will use that money to advance the NWO agenda.
Oh, it is, eh? Gee, I guess that explains all of the poor Masons that live on SS alone.
anyone who has been passed over for a promotion in favor of somone who's in the good 'ol boys club will understand what this guy is talking about.
Wrong club to be pointing fingers at.
Vuck, you are a typical disinfo troll.
LMAO, good job, I haven't been called a troll in over two weeks. I was worried I was losing my edge.
What's disinformation is all of this nonsensical scapegoating of a charitable organization that's approximately 400 years old. Yes, its a fraternity, yes, they have their "secrets", but there is no agenda for a NWO within the Masonic organizations. If they wanted control of this country, they would've done so at its inception, being they had abject control at the Founding. But they didn't...figure that one out.
If you want to talk about spreading "disinfo", how about all of you conspiracy theorists who point fingers at anything and everything with wild and unsubstantiated allegations, usually of a highly absurd nature, sometimes even in the face of the obvious. Then you wonder why your crowd is considered "kooks" by the populace.
You constantly spew lies and distortions. No wonder you defend this Satanic cult.
Oh? Cite one or two, just for the heck of it. I'll enjoy the cricket chirping symphony as I wait.
I agree with you. I know
I agree with you. I know very nice Mason's. And I believe some organizations are bad...but not the real masons.
And I am sorry that you got labeled a troll for expressing a difference in opinion if that is what happened.
Here's one:
"there is no agenda for a NWO within the Masonic organizations."
You spew this stuff like you actually believe it.
Because I actually DO believe it
So the average Joe meandering about your streets, your malls, your schools is somehow in the process of taking over the world with the intent of oppressing you?
Let me preempt your knee-jerk reply..."its only the highest levels that know" or something to that effect. Great non-answer you kooks have; somehow, you, as an outsider, know of these grandiose plans, but millions of Freemasons throughout the world, who are obviously on the inside, are not aware of such?
Do you not see your logical faux pas? You, nor most anybody else who propagates this nonsense, have nothing to substantiate your allegations with outside of either out-of-context citations, misconstrued interpretations of allegories and symbolism, anecdotal evidence, or plain old pulling garbage out of thin air.
If you want to see an amusing yet ridiculous video in line with your mindset on this topic, youtube has a cute one about Masonry in the first Matrix movie.
Ah yes, and of course
You, "the insider", assures us that there is nothing odd about the occultic symbols and pagan rituals utilized by the Masons; or the fact that everyone must take a bloody oath of allegiance and secrecy. It's perfectly normal for members of charitable organizations to be under the threat of a violent death for revealing those harmless, benign Masonic secrets. Now, I'm waiting for you to call me "profane" or "goyim" and dare me to become "illuminated".
So, why don't you tell me about Baphomet and Jah-Bul-On?
You're profane...feel better?
You, "the insider",
When did I ever claim to be on the inside? Extrapolations are not very truth orientated.
You, "the insider", assures us that there is nothing odd about the occultic symbols and pagan rituals utilized by the Masons
Actually, most of the Freemason symbolism and allegories are quite common throughout the Mediterranean religions, including Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and many flavors of paganism. The All Seeing Eye is a concept that Christians and Jews have turned into many lores, the most known is "God sees everything you do". Pyramids are in the symbolism of many religions and private organizations.
If you want to think a triangle and a 6000 year generic belief about an omniscient deity is a personal threat to you or freedom, I would point you to your nearest pharmacy for some lithium-based product.
or the fact that everyone must take a bloody oath of allegiance and secrecy.
Oh, gee, having some simple rules of confidentiality is somehow conspiratorial? Have you ever been employed? Have you ever read a confidentiality or no-compete contract? I guess every employer runs a secret society as well.
It's perfectly normal for members of charitable organizations to be under the threat of a violent death for revealing those harmless, benign Masonic secrets.
And how many of those death penalties have been performed? Maybe, just maybe, the threat of death is allegorical for a symbol-based society? Perish the thought. Logic prevails yet again.
Now, I'm waiting for you to call me "profane" or "goyim" and dare me to become "illuminated".
Dare? This isn't some high school party with a bottle to spin. Profane in old English was essentially synonymous with ignorant, and in a Masonic context, an outsider.
As far as becoming "illuminated", that's something you must seek on your own, and not under false pretenses. If I had anything to do with your application to such an organization, I wouldn't want you as a member, because you're a fool that claims to have knowledge.
Freemasons and their counterparts and predecessors have been the victims of persecution for centuries. The monarchs and Vatican slaughtered almost all of them after the Templars provided centuries of faithful service to both. Whatever the Templars became between 1400 and 1700 was underground for so long and so secret that there is no clear history for that time period. Freemasonry evolved from such, and has since been an organization that has indulged in charity (Masonic organizations are the most charitable in the world, the Shriners alone spend in excess of $2M PER DAY on charitable works) and, at times, has thrown their weight behind liberty-based movements, including our own American Revolution.
Since they meet privately behind closed doors, the kookiest of the conspiracy theorists have come to scapegoat them for anything and everything wrong in their lives, yourself included, as well as the person who complains on every Mason-related board about Masons choosing to do business with each other.
Let me journey down your mindset for a paragraph - maybe, just maybe, you're buying the red herring that the Freemasons have become, which is distracting your attention from the real threats, the real "secret" organizations with these yet-to-be-defined agendas.
If the Masons were so "secret", why do you know about them (by their choice) and why are their criteria for membership so lax? An able-bodied adult male with a belief in a deity. That's it, believe it or not. The "secrets" are nothing more than tools of recognizing one another, which, BTW, have been revealed many times on the documentary channels
If the Freemasons were truly a "secret society" with a globalist agenda, you'd never hear of them, because they wouldn't want you to know they exist, and that goes for any organization.
Try to follow that line of logic, if your imagination will let you.
excellent I wish i could
excellent I wish i could hear more from you. I agree with much of what you have to say.
Not that I am discounting all conspiracy type theories completely..
But this is some good rational.
Peace.
It's even worse
when they get preferential treatment in a courtroom.
Club within a club
The lower degrees are doing bake sales and charity drives while the higher degrees are worshipping Satan.
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"Good government will not be restored until all Masons are purged from public office" - Rayback
Masons, LIKE USA
Was once good, then were corrupted by evil at its highest levels, and now bad.
Like USA not everyone at the higher levels are BAD, so are the people in between the top and bottom of the societies.
There is good and bad in both.
End of thread.
If Ron Paul is a Freemason
He is in good company. He went up a couple of points in my book.
masons good bad or just ugly?
ALL I know is that a house divided within cannot stand. ANY orgainization must promote the same message all the time or it defeats it's own purpose. SO I'll let the decision to you . GOOD vs BAD.
says
Fuck the masons
Pawns
Semper Fortis
The Lodge of Cowards
All on your list are agents of iniquity.
"Walls are stronger than the men that defend them."
Ghengis Khan
And
It appears Genghis Khan has failed to the human trait fear of the unknown. Hate what you do not know. Kill what does not make sense. If you do not understand one thing write it off as evil. For it is far easier to hate than to understand.
your sample size is too
your sample size is too small.
period.
Masons had to keep secrets.
They are a society with secrets but not a secret society.
During the revolutionary period much of the conversation regarding the tyranny of King George III was occurring in the Masonry lodges all over the colonies. This is because the masons knew they could trust each other. When you evaluate the signors of the Declaration of Independence and the US Constitution they came from most every masonry lodge in every colony. Also a majority of the generals and officers in Washington's army were freemasons. He knew he could trust them. Keep in mind the penalty for discussing a revolution against King George III was death so it made sense to keep this a secret.
Also part of the oath in the Scottish Rite is to defend liberty and "classic liberalism."
Prior to Guttenberg the penalty for reading the Bible outside of the church was death. However the masonry lodges had and still have Bibles in the center of the lodges. As part of this long tradition, when the lodge is opened and secure the "secret" King James Bible is opened for self reading and self prayer as desired.
When they began reading from the bible they posted tilers outside to look for any cowans or eavesdroppers. So yes they did do things in secret. They read a bible outside of the church without a priest - the penalty of which was death.
The Masons will be the last bastion of defense of liberty. Join a lodge today.
it was a conspiracy theory...
hahaha, the entire revolution/this country were/is a conspiracy theory!!!!! That's why it was called the American Experiment. The founding fathers did all of this to help contribute to the NWO and the events that are underway today!!
MWAA HAHAHAHA....
just kidding.
Another thought . . .
Most people know the the Vatican is involved in all sorts of nefarious activities. Do you think each and every Catholic walking the streets is just as sinister?
I can answer that for you.
As a Catholic I'll let you in on a little secret... we're all in it! We're planning on taking over the world with the NWO and forcing Catholicism on everyone. mwaa haha....
Sorry Feebs... the Vatican isn't in on anything. Or it is, just as much as all the claims in the daVinci code are true.... that's right, we run around in secret prayer groups killing people who might reveal us...
In fact, you want to know the REAL story? We're actually reptilians. Each and every one of us. THAT'S RIGHT!!! IT'S ALL TRUE!!!