We Need the Draft Reinstated
Posted October 28th, 2007 by oquirrh
output
by Mark Drought. Mark believes; "We need a draft, because - as the 1776 Revolution should have taught us - angry Americans are better Americans." http://www.newtownbee.com...
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WtF is going on here?
You do not institute Slavery in order to create Liberty any more than you limit Freedom in order to create Security.
the alarm clock
they know reinstating the draft would make more people wake the f*** up . this is why i dont believe it would happen
Spot on.
Along with the comments above by nailosh. The LAST thing they'll do is implement a draft. If anything, it'd be a paradox, setting up a draft - because they'd need the extra men to join the army for the Martial Law that would have to be imposed due to 'civil disobedience'...
The whole thing is counter-productive.
I listened to Ron Paul speak
I listened to Ron Paul speak against the draft Friday during his speech in Ames Iowa.
He did mention that women will be drafted but I would add to that: medical personal and certain skilled workers such as computer experts.
I don't want my children drafted for any war. If the war is for a good cause, the draft would not be necessary anyway because people would volunteer. The draft is a tax on mothers worse than any the IRS could come up with.
On the back burner
.
Not sure if this is completely correct, but former senator Joseph Lieberman drafted the legislation for this. It would extend the draft age to 52, though it might be lower for women. There would be exemptions and deferments as before.
I think if the proposed invasion of Iran goes forward, then we will see Lieberman's legislation introduced and passed.
Terrible, because it's all avoidable.
Be careful what you ask for...
you just might get it.
A neo con with the draft... now that is scary.
Draft=Slave Army
Draft=Slave Army
Are you crazy?
In a free society your government should never be able to force you to go to war. Besides as we learned in vietnam those who do not want to be fighting make bad fighters.
Bad Fighters???
Where did you hear that? You are offending all who served in Vietnam. Drafted and enlisted men fought bravely over there, only to come home to an America that offered no thanks for their sacrifice.
I don't believe any offense was meant...
It's a pragmatic argument. Slaves do just what they must to get by and no more. Conscripts are slaves. So it follows that conscripts will do just what they must to get by and no more. This doesn't say anything about bravery. Conscripts certainly demonstrated bravery alongside volunteers. If we asked those conscripts why they put themselves in harm's way, I suspect they'd say it was to help their fellow soldiers and not for some larger notion of 'Victory'.
As to the pragmatic argument itself, I'd say it isn't all that great an argument. The Red Army was largely made up of slaves, and they prevailed against the Nazis. The costs were undeniably horrific, but I think anyone can see that Stalin came out a pretty big winner on that one.
Slavery is evil. It is inefficient for sure... but I would argue that's not the reason to oppose it.
Of course no offence was meant. Then why do I feel offended?
jneg7 and ggibson just repeat what they think is "common knowledge". It is only common knowledge to those who were not there. To whose who did not face the draft. There were choices, one could go to Canada and be a "draft dodger". We were baby boomers who's parents lived through WWII. Our families and out religious leaders encouraged us to do the honorable thing and serve our country. I was drafted, as was nearly all of my battalion. We did not know that we were going to loose that war, and did not fight to loose that war. We fought to win, and were always told that we were winning. The body count always showed that we were.
The propaganda machine kept cranking out the stories of our victories. We were told of the evils of communism, and of the domino theory. Vietnam was the country were America had to stop this spread of communism. We may have been drafted, but we were not "yellow draft dodgers", and when we went into battle we fought with honor.
The men on the front lines did not use drugs. No sane person would. Fragging of Officers and NCO incidents were extremely rare. There were 500,000 troops over there and I am sure it happened as it does in all wars. I also know that those in the rear echelon used drugs and alcohol, but so did those who stayed home.
Please don't continue to run down Vietnam veterans, we had enough of that in the 70's.
Common knowledge of Vietnam history
It is one of the first things you will learn if you study the Vietnam war and the draft. Many of those sent resented being sent... they took drugs alot to try to escape and the "fragging" incidents went way up. The killing of civilians went way up. There was far less discipline as the soldiers that did not want to be there had less respect for the officers.
Source?? "Common knowledge"
Using common knowledge as a source to insult the 58,000 dead adds insult to the ultimate insult.
Google it
You are on the Internet right?
Google it
I have seen this discussed my whole life in every documentary about Vietnam... every single one... I dont know how I could have gotten to the age of 34 and NOT known about the effects of the draft unless I just wasnt paying attention....
There have been MANY studies and books written ... Time articles I have read... I bet you could find it in just a couple seconds on Google...
There probably will be a
There probably will be a draft if Ron Paul is "not" elected. If Ron is elected we wont need one unless we are under the threat of imminent attack militarily and war is declared.
I disagree, and so does Ron
I disagree, and so does Ron Paul. While the draft is clearly constitutional, I believe it should be avoided if at all possible. The best way to do this is to not get ourselves into unnecessary wars.
In WWII, kids were lying about their age to get into the fight. Americans are willing to fight and die in a just war. If a draft becomes necessary, that should probably be taken as a sign that we're doing something wrong.
Clearly?
I would say it is clearly un-Constitutional. 5th, 13th, 14th amendments. Yes, I know the SCOTUS ruled otherwise... but I'll bet I won't have to look too hard to find someone around here to admit they think SCOTUS is less than perfect.
I'm not saying I like it,
I'm not saying I like it, just that it IS constitutional: http://usconstitution.net...
I get suckered every time...
For some reason every now and again I go spouting about this or that being constitutional or not... when, as a person who believes that the Constitution was and is an imperfect document, I should be talking about right and wrong instead.
Sup Ct Reason
The draft law during WWI was challanged and reached the Supreme Court. As to the claim it violated the 13th Amendment prohibiting involuntary servitude the court's reasoning (if you wish to call it that) was, in its entirety "refuted by its mere statement". So, if one objects the draft forces them into involuntary servitude the simple fact you complain of being forced into servitude means you aren't being forced into involuntary servitude. Utterly contradictory. Just another case of the Supreme Court betraying the freedoms it was - supposedly - created to protect.
marlow
Wow...
just wow! I had no idea their decision was that openly irrational. I never looked at the decision itself because I knew from first principles that no matter what it said it was wrong. I'm not sure which depresses me more... that the court would seriously advance that argument, or that people would buy it.
Nearly all of the SCOTUS decisions in the 2nd half of FDR...
Were either THAT irrational (or inane) -- or worse.
After he threatened to pack the court, they bent over backwards to distort the law and expand the power of government -- no matter what the Constitution said. All 3 branches failed in their oaths.
Thus, the modern American government.
No Draft
No Draft! I don't see the logic. Let's punish Bush and his wars by giving him new recruits to continue his wars. People may rise up but with the Constitution a thing of the past protesting will become hazardous to your health.
I see But that is not what RP is advocating
I see some reason for the draft to make people mad.
But If RP gets in we would not need it for if we close the 130 country miltary bases and bring back all our men and women there would be no need for draft in fact we would probably need to reduce the forces here at home to a more special units. Protect our borders and more ship bases.
Ceding the moral high ground...
While it seems that the lack of a draft might explain perceived apathy, I don't think it's productive for people to go around advocating the return of the draft. (Or 'slavery' as it is properly called.) I've heard that brushes with death make people more appreciative of their lives... so should I encourage my friends to go out and actively expose themselves to danger?
This guy is exactly right
Implement the draft and watch voters flock to the most anti war candidates. I don't understand how we expect to stay in Iraq for another 6 years without a draft, and I haven't even started talking about Iran.