Sen. Karen S. Johnson, R-Mesa - We deserve the full truth about 9/11
Posted May 4th, 2008 by dogstar2012
output
We deserve the full truth about 9/11
Tale of Building 7's collapse suggests official complicity, persistent obstruction
May. 3, 2008 12:00 AM
Regarding "Drinking the 9/11 Kool-Aid" (Editorial, April 24):
After three government investigations and more than six years, we still don't have answers on 9/11.
Why, for example, did Building 7 collapse? It wasn't hit by a plane, as the towers were. The 9/11 Commission Report completely ignores Building 7. The Federal Emergency Management Agency report discounts fire as a cause and concludes that the reasons for the collapse of Building 7 are unknown and require further research. But when FEMA issued this report, it already cleared the site and disposed of the dust and steel (evidence from a crime scene), thus possibly committing a felony and complicating any "further research."
The National Institute of Standards and Technology, a federal agency, which evaluated the collapse of the towers, has yet to issue its report on Building 7. "We've had trouble getting a handle on Building 7," said the acting director of their Building and Fire Research Lab.
Yet a number of private-sector engineers, architects, and demolition experts have not had that problem. They think Building 7 came down by controlled demolition. The building collapsed suddenly, straight down, at nearly free-fall speed. People heard the explosions, and saw the squibs and the characteristic billowing clouds of pulverized concrete so unique to demolitions. There is no reason to think that Building 7 came down for any other reason than explosive demolition.
And speaking of pulverized concrete, fire does not pulverize concrete. Even the collapse of one floor upon another wouldn't pulverize concrete the way the Twin Towers disintegrated.
Think back to that day: Those towers didn't just fall down. If they had, we would have had huge chunks of concrete breaking apart and falling into a massive pile of rubble. The buildings likely would have toppled erratically sideways and left a much larger pile of debris.
But that's not what we witnessed. The towers didn't collapse - they disintegrated.
We watched them explode into dust, not knowing exactly what we were seeing. Very little intact concrete was found in the rubble. The sheer energy required to pulverize that much concrete into dust can only come from an explosive process.
Reputable scientists, engineers, architects and firemen with no political angle dispute the 9/11 Commission report and say that the evidence indicates the Twin Towers and Building 7 came down due to controlled-demolition explosions. Tests corroborate the presence of thermite, an explosive used in building demolitions, at the site of the Twin Towers and Building 7.
Thermite also explains the pools of molten steel in the basement, which no one has been able to otherwise explain and which the National Institute of Standards and Technology simply denies. Why is the government refusing to even consider demolition as a possibility? What are they afraid of?
Time magazine reported in September 2006 that 36 percent of Americans believe the government was complicit in 9/11. A Zogby poll reported that 51 percent of Americans want Congress to investigate 9/11 further.
Even the co-chairmen of the 9/11 Commission are upset with the commission report. They have accused the CIA and the military of "obstructing" the investigation. Former Commissioner Max Cleland resigned, stating that the Commission was "compromised." Former FBI Director Louis Freeh has criticized the report for its inaccuracies and unanswered questions.
The events of 9/11 have never been properly investigated. It's about time they were.
The writer, a Republican from Mesa, represents District 18 in the Arizona Senate.
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I've gone 'round and 'round with this...
And it boils down to this...
The official story is a load of crap.
So, until we get an "official" story that has a plausible answer... we're still going to question the official story.
Is there anything wrong with that?
And this is from someone who's been on both sides of the fence. I've gone from a neo-con loving, war mongering, brain-washed by Faux News moron... to an it-had-to-be-a controlled-demolition Truther from Hell.
It's easy to say, "I don't think our government could do something like that."
But they have before.
Operation Northwoods, the Gulf of Tonkin incident, the attack on Pearl Harbor... all were false-flag events.
Being someone who's been on both sides of the fence at one time or another, I understand how people could get aggravated with people on the other side of the coin... but...
Fact of the matter is... as long as this many people have legitimate questions, the American people deserve an INDEPENDENT, OUTSIDE INVESTIGATION in order to find out the truth. Allowing the government to investigate itself is like asking a snake to guard the hen house to make sure the fox doesn't get ahold of the chickens.
Alright
I'm glad you guys have a zeal for this!
Yeah "they did it" (not hijackers) in case your wondering where I stand.
You guys really need your own site, I'm not literate enough to set one up. I'm fond of this format. A week, two weeks ago someone banned a forum poster or two and I felt like I was castrated. I know that this truth may be the "bite" of any Revolution in these here United States!
Ron Paul and Truthers site! I don't like being called a Truther though, who started that Title. No big deal, just not fond of titles.
I was there that day
on a nearby roof . watched the whole thing. was in communications with friends that were right there by the towers. One of my friends who lived in an apt right at the foot of the towers, was thrown about 20-30ft when the explosion that brought down the south tower went off. Big explosion then building collapse. i saw it with my own eyes heard felt it, i even had first hand photographs which i have been looking for in my archives (computer data loss issues, i hope i will be able to find them soon). A former best friend of mine (Israeli guy) It was the roof of his apt building. I went to his house and got him to go to the roof with me when i heard a plane had hit that morning. He was an Odigo user and had mentioned he had heard somebody saying something about this earlier that morning . He became my former friend when that day he said good now you are in our war too.
Hope
Sure hope you find 'em!
Using a program like: EasyRecovery Professional?
http://www.ontrackdatarec...
LOL
Because THIS woman http://www.azleg.state.az...
thinks 9/11 was an inside job, this is supposed to give the idea credibility? LOL.
LG.....the idea already HAS
LG.....the idea already HAS credibility. You are in the minority in the US man. Most folks in the US want another investigation.....including Ron paul. Where do you stand on that?
Do you have Credentials L.G.
That are better than this Senators? Better yet can you do simple physics problems? My guess is no to both. She probably read facts that a number of Physicists, Architects, High Ranking Military Officers, Demolitions Experts, and many others have brought forth and deducted her own reasoning.
Here are a few. Read up buddy.
http://www.patriotsquesti...
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We can all say what needs to be done, but who here led by example today?
She's
clearly simply been manipulated the same propaganda floating around online and she's very gullible and airheaded. It takes a very gullible person to fall for this conspiracy stuff.
You're right!
Only an airhead would believe the ridiculous conspiracy that 19 schmucks who couldn't even cover their own tracks outwitted the entire North American air defense network. I could list off numerous actual FACTS that make the 'official' story about what happened on 9/11/01 simply not plausible. Stuff like a plane that folds it wings and tail back agains it's fuselage on impact and burns hot enough to vaporize, yet somehow leaves DNA behind for all its passengers. Or that the black box from said aircraft didn't match up with the official story. Or how about that WTC 7 building?
You fall into one of three categories, LG. Ignorant by choice, ignorant by chance, or complicit. Which is it? What's the excuse you choose for perpetuating the lies we've been told?
L.G. you're a genious.
You're right! all those Scientist, Generals, Colonials, and Pilots are all air heads as well. What a spectacular argument. It really helps your side. Good work.
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We can all say what needs to be done, but who here led by example today?
Great spelling there
"Genious" LOL. How ironic is that?
never claimed to be an english major nor a genius.
my bad quick typing while working. should have used spell check. Still pointing that out didn't help your argument. Here check and see if I spelled this right... "Girlie Man Neo-con"
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We can all say what needs to be done, but who here led by example today?
LG
Has no life. It's not to late to get one. I'll be praying for you my brother!
Dear Lord in Heaven, please give LG a life. There I hope it helps!
Peace!
You never address facts
you just spew BS. Get a life. Do do something productive. If this is the best you can do, then you are shooting blanks. All you do is resort to name calling. That says it all.
Time magazine reported in September 2006 that 36 percent of Americans believe the government was complicit in 9/11. A Zogby poll reported that 51 percent of Americans want Congress to investigate 9/11 further.
What gives it credibility are the facts.
What is so hard about grasping facts. I see nothing funny about it, but you are free to laugh all you want.
Peace!
This one's for
Steveu. Would you care to take time and refute it?
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We can all say what needs to be done, but who here led by example today?
Bush Administration Insider Says 9/11 Was An Inside Job
Getting tired of hearing these? How many more is it going to take?
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
Found it~Take it or leave it.
PROJECT BLUE BEAM
The infamous NASA Blue Beam Project has four different steps in order to implement the new age religion with the antichrist at its head. We must remember that the new age religion is the very foundation for the new world government, without this religion the dictatorship of the new world order is completely impossible.
I'll repeat that: Without a universal belief in the new age religion, the success of the new world order will be impossible!
If you cant imagine it you cant protect yourself against it. Period.
The USAF
Has had a ton of projects that never went past developement. Trust me, my last job in the USAF was at a test base.
Also, although the theory behind it is fun enough to at least research further it probably doesn't have much to do with the physical events of 9/11.
I'm a big fan of Occam's Razor.
All the technology needed to stage 9/11 and play with the footage was already mainstream and available.
I agree
I never want to be naive to what is possible. I found out early in life if you don't think like a criminal or imagine whats possible you cant protect yourself against it. I fine it amazing what a criminal evil mind is capable of.
Bottom Line
People have to be ready for the truth..
this might help you to understand
These are all qualified people. look at this site.
http://www.patriotsquesti...
I work in construction
and studied structural engineering as part of my architectural licence and this is what I've been trying to tell people since day one when I saw it happen.physic's and science can simply not take a holiday whenever the media decides that it is convenient.
I am a structural engineer
by trade. What people don't take into consideration is that if the towers fell because of the ~official~ damage taken to them, those structures would not have been there for aircraft or whatever to hit them.
They would have fallen down years before when the first strong wind hit them.
Also, if they were structually compromised in the way the official report says, then I, by the same logic they used, should be able to weld with a candle.
Now, I've no idea what really happened.. I get a verified by ME clue once a month or so. I doubt we'll ever really know what happened. However, the official version just does not work. Which means they are hiding something. Which means, to me, that it probably isn't a good thing.
Just my 2 cents.
Great point
Yes you have been saying this. I remember well.
It sucks to be labelled a kook
When all you are doing is defending the laws of newton and other great minds let alone for just having a bit of common sense.
The latest theory being
The latest theory being promulgated here says that the NYC skyline was replaced with a hologram on 9/11 and the towers were disintegrated with energy beams.
I agree that the official 9/11 story leaves a lot to be desired, but when people go beyond laws of Newton to analysis 9/11, and instead invoke the laws of Roddenberry, that's when I start calling a kook a kook.
Ron Paul Explorer: The All Paul Search Engine
You know..
I'd have said the same thing back in the day but I am a critical thinker. I go with my own gut feeling and check out everything. I don't believe what I'm told and half of what I see. There was an article I wish I could remember the name of it just for discussion sakes. It was operation blue beam or something. Anybody ??
Not sure
but I think it was Project Blue Beam? Discussed the use of governments using holograms to create whatever vision they chose to display to the people in the sky...I believe what I read was intended to be portrayed as some sort of miraculous appearance of the Messiah in the clouds...speaking in various languages depending over which country the image was projected...this was to convince the people that the long awaited Messiah of the Jews, the Christians, the Muslims, and other religions had arrived and was joining us all together...or something to that effect. Mind boggling stuff.
I don't know about energy beams.
The pentagon was most likely hit by a missile. Both WTC1&2 probably had a small suitcase hydrogen bomb placed at the base to knock out the core after the thermite cut the beams enough which would explain why their was molten steel under the rubble for months. WTC 7 was rigged as well.
George Bush's brother was head of the security for the trade centers so he was holding all the keys.
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We can all say what needs to be done, but who here led by example today?
Our military has these things
I don't see it as being much of a stretch, it just falls outside most peoples knowledge base.
They said it was currently in use
In modern day warfare, Its not such a stretch that in the wrong hands it would be used for evil.
You never watched the video.
They are actually saying that the footage was faked and that the towers were hit with missiles, not energy beams.
Stop distorting... ;)
Sorry
I get confused by the plethora of choices. Towers downed by:
- Hijacked aircraft
- Remote controlled aircraft
- Thermite charges
- Energy beams
- Missiles
- Ruth Buzzi's handbag
-
Ron Paul Explorer: The All Paul Search Engine
Let me help you then...
Thermite isn't really discussed a lot.. it's kinda a given. Nothing else would make that kind of heat the way it needed to be applied.
Hijacked Aircraft... that is a conspiracy theory.. check out our government for that particular one. It's not too plausible, but you will get a laugh out of some of the ways they explained things.
~Remote controlled aircraft... possibly... I think in that case you would call them a missile, which is another of your questions. If you ask why there were wings on a missile I'll just send you to google to look at the pictures of missiles with wings in the US inventory.
Energy Beams.. I think you brought that one up.. I didn't really read much of the September's Clues thread because of the incredibly condescending tone you were using at the time, mixed with personal attacks, wierd alternative theories, etc.
Ruth Buzzi's handbag... have not heard of that one, although it may be more plausible than the official story.
OK.. caught up now?
:)
allow me to inject a bit of reasoning if i could
In my business of building things I have for fifteen years spent alot of time dealing with steel. The core columns in the towers were up to code for the era it was built and back then steel that was put into buildings had to be reinforced steel. I have spent alot of time cutting through steel and it take acetylene torches to cut steel. thermate ( thermite with sulphur ) is the only known device that can cut through steel that fast. even with an acetylene torch and under the proper conditions It takes me about five minutes to cut through a steel "I" beam. The core columns of the trade centers ( I have the blue prints in front of me that someone gave me ) were four inches x 16 inches thick at the base of the towers and they tapered by .034 per floor till they reach the top of the towers to allow for sway.
even the steel at the top of the towers would have been 3 inches by close to 15 and would have taken me about four minutes to cut through it with acetylene torches with the proper conditions.
The official story is ludicrous.
I believe that this
I believe that this constitutes a legitimate line of inquiry.
Futhurmore, I believe that any theory worth developing will begin on a rational basis (such as that presented by sentinel) and will strive to develop a reviewable series of events as its main focus without getting sidetracked by unsubstantiated charges against certain persons or groups (including Al Qeda) until a full investigation has been completed.
In this way we can rationally investigate the real story of 9/11, and we can remain true to Ron Paul and his request that people who care about him stop making unsubstantiated charges and wild accusations.
Is that too much to ask?
Ron Paul Explorer: The All Paul Search Engine
Exactly
See my post further up the thread.... if the origional structure was compromised in the way that they state (jet fuel burn) then technically I should be able to weld iron with a candle.
Not to mention that if jet fuel exibits the characteristics that they say it did in the Towers, then aircraft should be exploding (and vaporizing!) on engine startup.
Not really
Regarding hijacked aircraft -- is that only a government theory?
I have heard the theory that Mossad agents used Arab hijackers in a false flag attack.
Isn't that "out there" enough to get the non-governmental conspiracy theory seal of approval? I know it doesn't have any Borg wormholes or Romulan disrupters, nevertheless...
Ron Paul Explorer: The All Paul Search Engine
In any conspiracy
you are going to have people who will automatically throw in that it was in fact carried out by (Insert whatever personal We worship Satan and are the Shadowy Overlords of the World here). That is just muddying the waters. It also really helps those that are origionally trying to hide what really happened.. ;)
I would not be surprised if some of the other ~conspiracy theories~ out there are not in fact put out by our own government in the first place... we've done it for years in other countries.
That still doesn't take away from the fact that it doesn't take a really intelligent person to figure out that the official story is BS.
There's a Gem in There
"I would not be surprised if some of the other ~conspiracy theories~ out there are not in fact put out by our own government in the first place... we've done it for years in other countries."
Those who identify as "Truthers" are the core group which is manipulated by The Powers That Be to create a smokescreen of insanity around the legitimate questioning of 9/11.
This causes people who are reasonable enough to require a burden of proof from those who make accusations regarding the murder of 3,000 reluctant to pose questions about 9/11 in the first place.
Ron Paul Explorer: The All Paul Search Engine
You bring up a good point...
The 9/11 Truth movement is probably the most infiltratrated and misused group I've ever heard of.
Which is why, although I know the official story is BS, I do not align myself with the movement.
Still be nice to have a real investigation tho.
I agree with that
I agree with that statement.
Ron Paul Explorer: The All Paul Search Engine
You are really good at not making a point
The facts are the facts. What is in this post is fact.
Sen Karen Johnson also makes a great point "I won’t be able to convince anyone who doesn’t want to be convinced, but for those who are willing to deal with factual evidence, consider the following:"
Enough said.
Peace!
Are what you refer to as
Are what you refer to as "facts" limited to those presented by Sen. Karen S. Johnson, or do you feel that holographic images and energy beams also played a role on 9/11?
Enlighten me.
Ron Paul Explorer: The All Paul Search Engine
Gah
You ALMOST had a decent side to the debate for a minute, then go right back to marginalizing.
Close!
Devon...
But if you believe that the Truther movement has been infiltrated and manipulated to present a smokescreen over the real story, then why are you so adamant about not trying to make a distiction between the plausible and the patently untrue?
Should we, in good conscience and in recognition of free speech, indulge ourselves in speculation that leprechauns destroyed the towers should that become the theory of the day?
Ron Paul Explorer: The All Paul Search Engine
Easy.
The patently untrue is the official version.
So we need to attempt to try to find the real version.
People like you that throw leprechans, energy beams, etc out there are doing nothing but putting thier heads in the sand.
What you are saying is that the official version doesn't work, but nothing else does.
You have an internet connection and a brain.. start using both and come to your own conclusions instead of marginalizing the people that are putting the litmus test to theories.
By the way, you've still not watched the video that you are so busy condemning. So in essense you are critiquing something you don't know anything about. I'm going to bet that you never will.. you're too busy not looking at any other side of the issue.
Wish you luck learning anything that way.. ;)
Devon,
But I've been following this for years. I watched several presentations on Book-TV by Jones and others, I've been to the websites, although my dialup connection prohibits me from watching video.
I know that there are too many holes in the official story to count. I know that the media marginalizes anyone who disputes official explanations in this and in other matters.
I would be very interest in hearing an in depth analysis of your theories, beginning with your entirely plausible statements about the construction of the towers and see where things go from there.
I am not the one inserting energy beams into the discussion. It is the tendency that this very difficult topic inevitably drifts into discussions of impossible scenarios and unproven accusations that makes any attempt to coordinate real data and evidence and develop reasonable theories based on it impossible.
I have not "marginalized" anyone who hasn't taken a cheap shot at me first (more or less -- I imagine that I have inflicted some collateral damage, but so it goes).
For example, the very first post in this thread is by oruval and it specifically warns people that I'm a bad man. What the Senator cited above says does not sound entirely unreasonable to me and I would not have come bashing through this thread if it wasn't for oruval's instigation.
Do I let others get my goat? Sometimes. But I've gotten the goats of others as well. And now the prettiest one is "My Pet Goat."
Ron Paul Explorer: The All Paul Search Engine
Devon,
I commend you. You have the patience of Job with Meister.