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Washington Times on the Kidnapping of FLDS children. GOOD READ!

Tell the Washington Times a great big THANK YOU for publishing this editorial, and you might as well click the link and send some traffic their way.

Article published May 4, 2008
http://tinyurl.com/4aplvl

FLDS raid ripples

By Jacob Sullum - I'm not quite as old-fashioned as
the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-Day Saints (FLDS), which hews to the
early-marriage customs of the 19th century and the
polygamous practices of biblical times. But I'm
old-fashioned enough to believe the government needs a
good reason to pull a crying, clinging child away from
her mother and hand her over to the care of strangers.

The possibility that the child might marry an older
man 10, 12 or 14 years from now does not cut it.
Citing that long-term, speculative danger to justify
the certain, immediate damage it has done by forcibly
separating hundreds of children from their parents,
the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services
has violated its duty to take such extreme measures
only when there's no other way to prevent imminent
harm.

The department took custody of 463 minors who were
living at the FLDS church's Yearning for Zion (YFZ)
Ranch in Eldorado after an April 3 raid that was based
on an abuse report police believe was a hoax. On
Monday, state officials said the children, now living
in group homes or shelters, include 53 girls between
the ages of 14 and 17, of whom 31 are pregnant or have
children.

I don't know whether to believe that. Texas
officials have proven unreliable even on such basic
questions as the justification for the raid, which was
a report of physical abuse from a 16-year-old YFZ
resident who apparently does not exist, and the number
of children seized, a figure that was revised yet
again this week. Just a few days ago, the number of
underage mothers was said to be 20.

It's not clear how the government determined the
ages of these girls. It says many who claimed to be
adults were in fact minors, while FLDS members say
many of the girls the state describes as minors are in
fact adults.

Furthermore, the age of consent for sex in Texas is
17, while the minimum age for marriage, with parental
approval, is 16 (raised in 2005 from 14 with the FLDS
in mind). Hence a pregnant 16- or 17-year-old is not
necessarily evidence that any laws have been broken.

Even by the government's account, 463 children were
forcibly removed from their homes because 7 percent of
them may have been victims of sexual abuse. Although
there's no evidence that boys or prepubescent girls
were abused at YFZ, the minors in state custody
include 213 boys and about 130 children under the age
of 5.

What is the state's rationale for taking girls who
were not pregnant or mothers along with those who
were, for taking boys along with girls, and for taking
infants, toddlers and preschoolers along with
teenagers? In an affidavit, it asserts "a pervasive
pattern and practice of indoctrinating and grooming
minor female children to accept spiritual marriages to
adult male members of the YFZ Ranch resulting in them
being abused." As for the boys, "after they become
adults, [they] are spiritually married to minor female
children and engage in sexual relationships with them
resulting in them becoming sexually [sic]
perpetrators."

In short, [the state alleges that] the whole FLDS culture is sick and
corrupt, so anyone raised in that environment is ipso
facto a victim of abuse. This collective guilt theory,
accepted by Judge Barbara Walther at a chaotic and
cursory mass hearing April 17, is the antithesis of
the individualized risk assessment that is supposed to
justify taking a child from his parents.
Some YFZ residents say they do not approve of
marriage before the legal age of consent, while others
say they do not practice polygamy at all [the official bishop's records from the YFZ ranch indicates that fully 1/3 of the households on the ranch are monogamous]. Yet all were
tarred with the same broad brush, based on a principle
that church attorney Rod Parker aptly summed up this
way: "If you're a member of this religious group, then
you're not allowed to have children."

Jacob Sullum is a nationally syndicated columnist.

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Reason published this

Reason published this article a while back as well, at
http://www.reason.com/new...

Some nerve you have, Constipation Kid

Some nerve you have, Const. "Your 45% dedication to RP, but its 110 or go home"?

Them's fightin' words, Constipation Kid.

45% dedication? 110% would be an understatement of my dedication to RP. I've put in literally a thousand hours or more over the last 10 months or so, on behalf of Ron Paul. Thats in addition to working a full time job, supporting my family, running a small business, and spending time with my wife and children.

Until you know the great lengths I have gone to as a Ron Paul supporter, I suggest you knock off the crap. I've been a district delegate; I got elected as a state delegate; I've canvassed door to door; I've been a precinct leader; I've waved signs (opposite Huck and Mitt sign-wavers) at busy intersections at 40 degrees below zero. I worked at RP HQ doing voter ID phone calls. I was a District Coordinator for the RP official campaign. I participated in the highly successful and much-discussed DVDs for Alaska Delegates project, including as a content contributor and stuffing DVDs and addressing hundreds of packages. I've been named the assistant treasurer of a PAC designed to influence national convention delegates, and on and on and on. Thats just the stuff I remember off the top of my head.

I've done more to support this revolution that you would like to think. I don't come here to toot my horn or mention any of this however because there is no contest, or shouldn't be, among us posters.

I hate that I had to mention this stuff, because it is not my nature to boast or brag. I am not interested in accolades or praise. But I take offense when some trolling basement-dwelling forum-warrior comes in and accuses me of being a 45% supporter of a man who to whom I had literally dedicated nearly half of my waking hours over the last 10 months.

move it to the official thread guys

please help me out its the Official FLDS thread mov it all here Paulites thread. please.

Which thread?

I'd willingly gather there to chat and update the situation. Thanks for the info!

I have made a tread to consoladate this topic

Please help me by moving to the official FLDS tread I have made. That why we on't fill up the board with one topic and get people made at us. Also it will save time if we can go to one tread for all our FLDS news. This is a topic dear to my heart and I don't want people offended by our posting to many threads will you please help me and go to the official FLDS tread please.

You guys are going overboard,

really.
simmer down now.

I actually agree with you IveSeenTheConst.

But, if you are seeking a remedy, please stop bumping these topics.

you mean, throwing them up in the air

..where people can shoot them down to little pieces ?

Allow me to suggest something, 'rhino'...!... you and your gang get a little flds thread going with NO CAPS IN THE TITLE and keep to yourselves. stop that secret bumping technique. We all do appreciate your 45% dedication to RP, but its 110 or go home.

1 thread.

understood?

yeah, i'm mad. betrayed more like it. you people are STEALING 25% of the REAL ESTATE HERE

WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME - WHERE ARE YOU !?!?

TROLL

------------------------------------------------
"RON PAUL SUPPORTER SINCE 1997"
RON PAUL 2008 / RE-ELECT 2012

Shut Up, Stella

EOM

Thanks akaRon

for the article. There should be hundreds of these types of letters all over the U.S.

I emailed a thank you and dugg the digg!

The state of Texas, CPS, the

The state of Texas, CPS, the police and all other parties involved in this gross violation of their [FLDS'] liberties are probably looking for a way out. I'm talking damage control as well as any way that they themselves can avoid prosecution. I believe they know it is coming and it will likely be very personal to the individuals who have committed these crimes.

TX CPS and the others will very likely drag their feet until they can slip away and get out of this mess that they are in. I don't really see any other way than for them to face up to the facts and be held to account for their wrongdoings.

I have already stated on a local blog ...

That I would be willing to die for the return of those children.

They could have a public trial and execution in anyway as they see fit for them to save face. I will lie, sacrifice my soul, and die if those children could be returned safely.

Please forward this message to the powers that be in Texas. I'll be waiting.

All we need is 9,998 more people like you ....

with that many people organized our republic can be saved from ruin...(BTW I counted myself and you in the count)

Can you imagine if 10,000 people with your passions showed up at ...say the judges house. the courthouse, etc. and then went to each of the children's foster homes and just rescued them. ??

count me in!

lets play 'beers on the wall'

If only I could have, I would have stood between the tanks

and those families.

******************************************
The Delegate Rule Book for the RNC
Read It--Learn It--Know It! Don't let the GOP violate the rules.
Who knows you could learn a few tricks of your own.
pdf file:
www.gop.com/images/2008_C...

here's the

here's the DIGG!
http://digg.com/political...

it's on the other post too

too funny. you were digging it at the same time I was...

beat me though ...thanks for digging it!!!

my pleasure :-) Here's the

my pleasure :-)

Here's the contact link to Washington Times for those who'd like to give them a big THANK YOU.

http://video1.washingtont...

Great article!

But, um, when I clicked on your link, it took me to their main home page...which listed lots of stories, but not the one you posted. Is there a direct link to the story available?

btw, AlaskaRon, did you see this yet?

THANK YOU THANK YOU

My mistake. Thanks for coming through and fixing it for me. My apologies.

yeah

i seen that. good catch.