You say tomato I say potato

I agree completely, rhino. We do spend far too much time debating the "proof" of why things are screwed up in Our Country, and too little time discussing what underlying actions we can all take to resolve the bigger problem.

As some clearly know, I sit pretty squarely on the "other side" as you put it, but I see the door open for any or all of the "conspiracies" to be real, given the "state of the State". Our government is out of control - at ALL levels. The grip on power they hold is strong enough to allow for the full spectrum of abuses listed above to be possible, though perhaps not always probable.

If we address this power balance, we will be able to answer the questions Everybody has, with real transparency and a smaller government incapable of manipulating so much of what goes on in America's homes and businesses.

The good news is we DO discuss how we ARE recapturing this land from the ground up. Begining at the local level, our "Movement" has nearly completed the transition to a self-sustaining political force that will continue beyond RP's nomination struggle. Republican or otherwise, RP has stirred up a force that will dominate our political landscape in just a few years time. Perhaps we will even get a nice surprise a little sooner!!!

The Tide is Turning and they are begining to hear the message. Onward to Victory!

Long Live the Revolution!

I think we need to convince people to follow a non-interventionist foreign policy and the constitution. No matter how much proof you may think you have for the manutia of conspiracies, we hit people over the head with too much information and no one can take it all in. We sound crazy when we start naming 100 things we think are conspiring against us. No, we have more credibility when we demand everyone obey the law.

Flouride has kept me cavity free/ the MSM is biased.

What are my intentions?

"Regardless of where you see yourself, let us not take our eyes off the target. We will not need an answer to this question if our quest is successful. "

Is this a true statement?

Lets have free and open debate, but stay respectful of each others personal views.

We are all brought here by the idea of liberty and we've all worked hard to spread it! the big picture is an idea that gives us the freedom to be diverse. It should bind us together but not restrict us as individuals.

Much love to all dailypaulers!

It's not a split in the movement, though. People just have differing interests and most people in our movement trust the federal government even less than Dr. Paul.

As far as whether or not there are conspiracies vs. incompetence, I would suggest that both are rampant. I find it surprising that, in context of your post above, you question the idea that the Patriot Act was orchestrated by the powerful in an effort to retain power over the people. If not, what was its purpose? It nullifies the Fourth Amendment!

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

"If we want to live in a free society, we need to break free from these artificial limitations on free debate and start asking serious questions once again." -Ron Paul

but if we do not have expansive enough minds for both camps to be able to civilly discuss these issues, what does that say about allowing freedom of expression? We are living in a time of many emotionally charged issues upon us, so should we just shy away from them or try to be "politically correct" so as to not make waves with anyone? That to me is the biggest cause of how this country got to where it is today. I know from your posts that the FLDS issue is very close to your heart as it is to mine and others here. However due to the lack of much of an outcry from most of our population, it would seem others are ok with it, and do not think it was totally mishandled by the authorities. Should we just turn away from discussing it because it is an emotional issue, and does not really have anything to do with electing Ron Paul? I would like to believe that the true supporters on this site are able to allow others their beliefs and in doing so will not at all dampen our enthusiasm and support for our main cause in any way. After all, if we had a government that was following the Constitution, we would not have to have a debate about if it is ok to talk about all of these unwelcome topics because they would not exist.

Is dividing the populace and keeping us fighting among ourselves.

Lets just all agree to elect honest officials who can't be bought, and go from there shall we?

Both, at times, are true....at times, both are true.

And then there are those who are relentless in wanting to talk philosophy, or conspiracies or general gardening ;>{)....I'm fine with all of it....I just hope we keep the politics, news and inspiration on top so the ripe fruit doesn't get composted under the heap.

By the way, isn't it because the syndrom of conspiracies are endemic to power that we are in this struggle to limit government ?

"Regardless of where you see yourself, let us not take our eyes off the target. We will not need an answer to this question if our quest is successful. "

Discussions of conspiracies, ignites entusiasm and turns people off.

The message is freedom, not power.

The North American Union (NAU), the American Empire, the REAL ID--these are all labeled as "conspiracy theory" by the Corporate Military-Industrial Government Media and many of their corresponding parrots in the population. Should we not discuss these either, since these issues (and the list goes on, of course) are pejoratively labeled by those who either consciously or unconsciously work to limit "acceptable" opinion and shut down debate?

"If we want to live in a free society, we need to break free from these artificial limitations on free debate and start asking serious questions once again." -Ron Paul

Rhino, I have learned a lot from many of your forums topics. You are a great asset to daily paul. I agree with you about 99%. As a person concerned about the deterioration of our water here in Iowa, I was very interested in the Monsanto thread we had going here.

Because Ron Paul believes that respect for property rights will be enough to protect our environment......( "When one has a proper respect for property rights, environmental concerns go away. In a society that respects the property of others, it is cause for legal action if someone pollutes your land, or the water coming across your property, or the air which floats above it. With a proper respect for private property, people can and should be allowed to do whatever they would like with their land - barring any restrictions they agreed to when they purchased the land - up until the point that their actions physically affect their neighbors.") http://www.ronpaullibrary...)...... I questioned how this theory would in reality help improve my water in a farming state. After all, how can I hope that an entire farming community would concede that their farming practices have poisoned my water?

The thread on Monsanto went further to explain why our water is so bad. In that that regard, some off topic threads are beneficial to us all.
http://www.igsb.uiowa.edu...
http://www.inteldaily.com...

This is a good thought topic. What is a conspiracy? How do you start one? Can good people start one? Is the Ron Paul movement a conspiracy?

By that I do not mean a lie or something evil, but are we not trying to influence the nation into a particular direction by planting like-minded people into positions of power?

'But we are doing it for good!'

Everyone else is too. It is a battle of ideas. Your ideas, what you think and believe, drive your actions.

Good-intentioned or ill-intentioned everyone acts on what they believe to be true. If they are ignorant, good-intentioned, and follow the wrong path then they are part of the wrong path. Good-intentions do not justify anything. Neither do bad.

We are all fighting the battle of ideas. This particular battle is one for personal liberty, responsibility, and limited government. The opposite is for public security (regulations), welfare, and government welfare. Each side says the same about the other - it is conspiratorial. Of course they are!

Everyone has an agenda. Whether its getting more votes, higher paychecks, getting the girl, or saving the world we all have our priorities. We need to have the right ones.

What we are doing in this campaign is changing the way people look at the world by introducing revolutionary ideas.

Let's keep at it! Vote Ron Paul and beyond!

or perhaps a little in both, but either way, or both, Ron Paul will fix it all. So, yes we need to work towards that goal.