Seriously, what is wrong with questioning 9/11?
Posted May 7th, 2008 by docholladay
output
Part of what makes this country great is that we still (for the time being) have the right to free speech. To me that includes, and indeed DEMANDS that we question things, especially concerning events as monumental as 9/11. I've heard the argument that "it damages our campaign", but I'm not sure that it does.
The revolution is about honesty, open-mindedness, and dealing with reality. That means dealing with issues that we'd sometimes rather
sweep aside. I also understand Dr. Paul's position/beliefs on 9/11, but that doesn't mean that our government didn't benefit immeasurably from the situation and eviscerate our freedoms in the name of 'the war on terror'. Looking at how much power the government gained, and their track record of dishonesty, propaganda and emotional opportunism, I can't entirely rule out ANY theory.... even complicity or participation.
I'm not taking a side here, I'm just merely saying that we need to be open minded and that the people questioning the official report have a right to do so. To automatically regulate them to the 'loony bin' is exactly what the current administration/media machine wants. Even if you disagree with the conspiracy theories, there is room for debate and discussion. I have seen a lot more evidence FOR conspiracy than against it, and I'm still making up my mind, but to pigeonhole those brave enough to question the government's story if the face of the conditioned "knee jerk response" of public condemnation is wrong... they must have some good reasons to persist. It just seems counter to what this revolution is about to avoid an issue because it's controversial.
People used to be persecuted because they believed that the sun was the at the center of the solar system. Just because the status quo passed them off as kooks didn't make them wrong. I'm keeping an open mind regarding 9/11. There are a lot of things that don't add up, and it would be prudent for us to use facts rather than feelings when making up our mind. If someone presents evidence that seems questionable, then offer something concrete to counter the assertion. Otherwise, we're just reacting without using logic. The trouble with facts is that they tend not to go away.
Doc Holladay
http://www.myspace.com/do...
UPDATE:
I see quite a bit of division about this post, but overall the discussion has been fairly calm and well thought out. I have learned alot and am humbled by the response. Several have made the point that "It doesn't help Dr. Paul get elected", and I agree with that to a degree, however, we might be wise to listen to Dr. Paul himself regarding the point of all this. He has stated numerous times that his campaign was about MUCH more than his run for President. That is our immediate goal, of course, but he has also talked repeatedly about the long term effects of his campaign, namely to get Americans educated about the Constitution, sound fiscal policy, the true meaning of freedom, the abuses of government power that are choking the life out of this country, and on and on. Even if he isn't elected president, his campaign will have been wildly successful in that is has started a long overdue movement which can not be stopped. Why do you think he's traveling all over giving speeches to packed houses? It's campaining to be sure, but more importantly, it's EDUCATING Americans, especially young Americans, about what our problems are, why we have them, and how to fix them (the Constitution). So, in my humble opinion, his campain is as much about getting us to QUESTION things as it is about his election, and by doing just that we are supporting the very message of freedom that Dr. Paul carries. There are tons of posts on the Forum about things not directly related to getting Dr. Paul elected, but it seems to me that this one especially is given the 'red headed stepchild' treatment. Again, I'm not encouraging one view or the other, or encouraging division among the ranks.... just trying to stimulate open discussion and tolerance. After all, that's freedom.
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Good post.That is the
Good post.
That is the single best site for facts and analysis of what happened on 9/11.
[Objective view
On May 8th, 2008 rhino says:
http://911research.wtc7.n...]
www.911research.com
And a big THANK YOU to the DailyPaul site owner for your dedication to Dr. Paul and dedication to the truth.
Thanks
Interesting site, thanks for the recommendation.
Depends
In general there is nothing wrong with questioning anything.
However, questioning 9/11 here at The Daily Paul might be wrong. That depends how who is reading the posts. If the post is read only by people who are already Ron Paul supporters and who frequent the Daily Paul on a regular basis there is no problem. We understand what's going on and that many Paul supporters say thinks that would be unwelcome in any other political forum. Here at The Daily Paul you can find posts that are anti-Catholic, and anti-Jewish. You can also find posts that argue that the government is using unmarked planes to put chemtrails in the air and of course that the government was behind 9/11. I've even seen posts that contend planes did NOT hit the twin towers on 9/11. On the other hand if you think that newbees are coming here to learn about Ron Paul then there is a problem with questioning 9/11 here. Most people believe the government's version of what happened and consider truthers to be kooks. Someone who has just discovered Ron Paul and comes here trying to find out more could be turned off by the truthers. They'll believe that the Paul campaign is a haven for kooks and off they'll go to some other candidate.
Objective view
http://911research.wtc7.n...
Might want to see this vid
We Are Change confronts the SPP
We are Change Houston confronts globalists in New Orleans at the North American Leaders Summit.
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
Nothing Wrong
There is nothing wrong with questions. What is wrong is YOU ARE DOING IT IN THE WRONG PLACE.
This forum is not for that.
GO START A 911 TRUTH FORUM, PAY FOR IT, AND INVITE EVERYONE TO IT.
Why is it so many people can't understand the simple idea of respecting another person's property rights?
Would you shit on another person's lawn too?
Really?
manystrom says:
"This is probably the best 911 post I've seen on the site for as long as the site has been around.
In the past, as the owner of this site, I have discouraged excessive 911 discussion. It simply isn't the focus of the site, and there are plenty of places to have that discussion online. This was out of respect for Dr. Paul and his position.
Personally I believe that until and unless we come to terms as a nation with what happened on 9/11, and why we have let this administration continue to rule and break the law without impeaching them, we are basically screwed as a nation. I wish I could say it more eloquently than that. But if we think that we can just sweep all of this -- the last eight years -- under the rug and start 'fresh' in 2009, I'm afraid we are sadly mistaken."
Hmmmm, I don't know.... the site owner seems to see a difference between logical questions and shitting on a lawn. Have a great day!
Dr. William "Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN
Also
I just came across a webpage that has alot of information relating to this.
It appears that the Warren Buffet and Anne Tatlock(Fiduciary Trust) had their hands in quite a few things related to all kinds of aspects of 9/11, including before, during, and after.
http://www.rense.com/Kill...
Lots of smoke here.
Be carefull of speculating
One source indicates they were all together for a non-profit function.
Objective view
http://911research.wtc7.n...
Information that I want to put out here
This is some information regarding 9/11 that I want to put out into public view. It could likely be in some video archives somewhere, and possibly even on the net somewhere.
If anybody could figure out a way to find this video documentation and run with this ball, something interesting might come of it.
Here is my account of what I saw on TV on the ABC Sunday Morning news show with Cokie Roberts on the Sunday after the 9/11 event. I think it was the ABC show "This Week, with Cokie Roberts", which was a popular Sunday morning news show on TV at that time.
I watched the ABC Sunday Morning News show the week after the event. Cokie Roberts had a "human interest story" going on, with an interview of a woman who was the CEO of a WTC-based company called Fiduciary Trust. She was questioned about how it must have felt to lose her employees, and where was she at the time of the event that she survived?
Her response was that she was at Offut Airforce Base in Nebraska, with Warren Buffet and many other top financial people, having a breakfast meeting!
Now, it just happens that Dick Cheney was also at Offut AFB that same morning, and that was the "command and control center" for the activities following the plane crashes. GWB flew from Sarasota FL to Offut AFB right after he was told about the crashes. All these people are just coincidentally at Offut AFB for some reason on the morning of the event.
Do financial people of the magnitude of Warren Buffet and the CEO of Fiduciary Trust(from the WTC), normally have "breakfast meetings" in the HQ of a military base, when the VP is also there? The AFB which coincidentally also served as the command center for locking down the country after the event?
I saw this interview with my own eyes on TV. It is probably somewhere in some video archives somewhere, and it might be accessible to someone who knows how to find and access it.
I have never seen any replay of this video of the TV show, and never seen anyone else reference it for information. It is possible that I'm the only one that even remembers this show, that is making any connection to the 9/11 issue. I think it's important that others know this and can look further into it.
Big T
Here
http://www.cooperativeres...
Towards the bottom.
A lot of questions. No answers.
You are a Disinfo agent of some sort.
All you do is try and discredit people and hope no one reads further.
Wow the pressure must be coming down if you are here to break up the party.
That is a great feeling to know that.
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We can all say what needs to be done, but who here led by example today?
I am simply trying to add to the discussion so that everyone can
be informed.
dont compete with the government
they dont like the competition
I am simply trying to muddle the discussion so no one can
get informed.
Isn't that what you were really meaning Rhino.
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We can all say what needs to be done, but who here led by example today?
People can see for themselves.
http://911research.wtc7.n...
Question everything
keep up the great work. Screw anyone who thinks otherwise. We are a team, there is no time to pick out eachothers differences. Your opinion counts, as does everyones here. We need to stick together, truthers and nontruthers. Divided we fall. Keep up the great work.
Thank you for a thoughtful post
This is probably the best 911 post I've seen on the site for as long as the site has been around.
I completely agree with the poster - there is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning the official version of 911. Indeed, I went through a 911 phase, as I would expect any open minded, thinking individual with access to vast quantities of information at his or her fingertips should. As for me, I viewed countless hours of online videos, read countless books, analysis and eyewitness reports, thought about it up and down, thought about the logic and illogic of what has happened since. What I can say with complete confidence is that something very, very fishy happened, and the official account is not entirely accurate.
I've heard the stories about Cheney telling our military planes to stand down. I've looked at the footage of the Pentagon blast and saw no plane. (strange how there is no other footage, isn't it?) I've read the reports about how jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel, and of the evidence of thermite on the towers. I saw the buildings fall at free fall speed. I know that no plane hit Building 7, but it came down just the same. I could go on and on. A year or so ago the local chapter of the 911 truth movement had a weekend long movie marathon in Boston. They showed documentaries back to back, 12 hours a day for two days straight. I stayed and watched about six hours worth, and bought a bunch of DVDs for $1 each. I've looked at as much evidence both online and off to know that something very, very fishy happened, and that we are not getting anything near to the truth.
The reason that Ron Paul has become such a magnet for the 'truthers' is because of his association with Alex Jones, his appearance in Alex's documentaries, and others like 'Freedom to Fascism.' We hear Dr. Paul speak the bald truth about other issues, so we assume he knows the truth about 911 as well.
Honestly, when he first started running for president, I thought he was a truther myself (because of his appearance in one of Alex Jones movies, I suppose). We have all heard what Dr. Paul has said about 911. He doesn't believe that the US government was involved - in fact, I believe he said it was "preposterous" if I remember correctly. On the other hand he has also said that he doesn't trust the government investigation - not because of anything specific to 911, but because there is simply too much incentive for the government to lie and cover things up.
We often forget that Ron Paul is also a politician, and as such he has to phrase his positions accordingly. I have no evidence that he believes anything other than what he has said publicly about 911. However, I also know that anyone - public figure, that is - who stands up and makes this an issue would be voted out of office and ridiculed immediately. The best anyone in such a position can say is that there are inconsistencies with the official account. And this is true enough: As far as I know, Building 7 isn't even mentioned in the official report. (We are supposed to believe that it just fell down because of a fire, in spite of the fact that a fire has never caused a steel framed building to collapse.)
At any rate, this is simply the climate of the times. Talking about 911 is simply taboo these days. It just is not allowed. From that perspective, that makes it all the more fishy, and is just another piece of evidence of how our society is closing down. But we can't expect Ron Paul to fight all of these battles for us. Even mentioning this would knock him out of Congress - he doesn't want that, nor do we.
So no, there is nothing wrong with questioning the official version of 911. I think that the reason that the "truthers" get such a bad name is that they presume that they know the truth of what happened and why, and they're going to tell you about it and if you don't believe them you're a stupid, wrong, idiot. Well, that isn't a good way to convince anyone of anything.
One of the movies that I saw a year or so ago at the Truthfest was this one by David Ray Griffin, titled 911 - The Myth and the Reality.
http://video.google.com/v...
It is excellent, as Mr. Griffin is a philosopher and a religious scholar. He is thoughtful, grandfatherly and wise, much like Dr. Paul. His thinking, logic and presentation are just about flawless. Everyone should watch this and any other videos about 911. Do not be afraid or ashamed. To this extent, amazingly, we still live in a free country. Furthermore - God gave you a brain to use, not to simply follow what other people think or say.
In the past, as the owner of this site, I have discouraged excessive 911 discussion. It simply isn't the focus of the site, and there are plenty of places to have that discussion online. This was out of respect for Dr. Paul and his position.
Personally I believe that until and unless we come to terms as a nation with what happened on 9/11, and why we have let this administration continue to rule and break the law without impeaching them, we are basically screwed as a nation. I wish I could say it more eloquently than that. But if we think that we can just sweep all of this -- the last eight years -- under the rug and start 'fresh' in 2009, I'm afraid we are sadly mistaken.
Thanks for the input
Thank you for the input and the information. I checked out the Griffin video.... excellent recommendation! Keep the faith.
Dr. William "Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN
It is very late as I post this
but I am glad that I stayed up to read your post. We have been under attack on your site today, if you have the time or inclination to scan you will see. There are a very few that have appointed themselves as the overseers to question every topic, how it is phrased, if not to their liking will flag. If you review you will see the people we are talking about. I not speaking for everyone am supporting Ron Paul for his promise and track record of standing behind our Constitution which will give us back our civil liberties for one thing, which there are those on this site that would like to take away from us to speak freely. They want to pick and choose what topics to speak and how they are to be framed, etc. You will see the pattern if you wish to check for yourself. I once again want to thank you for this website as it has brought many of us together that feel like a family and has also been a lesson in discernment for the many factions that come here to distract and divide. If there is a definate subject that you the owner does not want discussed I am sure people here will honor that request, but we do not feel comfortable with people popping in here telling us what to say and how to say it. After all, we are supporters of Ron Paul for our love of freedom, including freedom of speech.
Why do you not wish to name names victory?
Your accusations should be backed up.
That is all we ask.
Why do you not wish to name names Victory?
Your accusations might lead to action on the guilty party.
We ask that you don't do this.
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We can all say what needs to be done, but who here led by example today?
Manystrom
I will not go into the infinite reasons why we all owe you a debt of gratitude, I am sure you have read a many.
We are all human, we all are imperfect. Even Dr. Paul. And while I agree that Dr. Paul is smart to avoid the 9/11 truth debate, I don't think he would lie about his beliefs on this issue to further his goals.
No one knows what happened that day, and we probably never will, but I still vividly recall the entire day. It was chaotic, who knows why things transpired the way they did and the logic for each and every action on that day.
It sickens me to think how much more information we would have if the country was still operating under constitutional law at the time of the 9/11 events.
Conspiracy, maybe.
But for this site to take the next leap forward an aura of credibility must be established.
Questions should be asked.
Truths need to be stated.
Speculation should be allowed.
But all we ask is that there is a small effort placed on indentifying truth, and pointing out what is speculation.
I don't expect you to handle this. I hope that you allow us, the grass roots, to police this effort.
Thanks again for all you have done.
Rhino.
translation
Manystrom,,,i love you ,,kiss kiss,,your the greatest really ,,kiss kiss ,questions SHOULD be asked...BUT .....truths stated BUT....speculation allowed BUT,,,,only by us the true grass roots after we approve the above said topics with our superior POLICING skills,,,,kiss kiss,,,,,vee are prepared to forge ahead vit the free speech forum und vill take care of everything,,,do not vorry your little head
Hahahahaa.
Did you just claim you would POLICE this issue.. In case you didn't know this website is all about spreading info about RP and educating people, Not to try and discredit the flow of ideas or silence them with your policing acts. That thinking in and of it's self shows you don't voice Ron Paul's idealism.
Manystrom I truly appreciate your intelligence to decipher the knowledge many have placed before you. Also I commend your acknowledgement of our right to voice our ideas and knowledge.
I wish I could say the same for you Rhino. The 9/11 truth movement isn't meerly speculation partner. So quit thinking or trying to express in anyway that it is.
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We can all say what needs to be done, but who here led by example today?
Yes! When the censor walks in freedom is stopped.
Don't like the book don't buy it!
When ANYBODY tells me I can or can't do something because THEY don't like it, I get pissed off!
I can say YOU can't do this and that TOO! But I don't.
Because you have a right to your opinion just like me!!!!
Aren't we Patriots? Don't we want freedom?
Go live in a State where you can't do anything if you want.
Don't turn my freedom State into what you DICTATE!
Ron Paul is clear on this. If you don't HURT ANYONE the Federal Government has no right to DICTATE.
The founding Fathers of the revolution were clear. Sates may pass laws in this respect.
So we move to a State that suits our way of life. Simple!
You go your way and I will go mine.
See, we are equal.
But always there is some (excuse my French) Bastard who wants to rule and to do that he must diminish ME.
Sorry, I don't play that game!
FU (Damn that French upbringing!)
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Watch and feel the power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well of course on the surface
that is their purpose here, to shut us up,,,not working as well as they hoped however,,,truth always rises to the top....but i cant help but wonder if some little scared part of them,,,,really wants to know what happened
Took 6 yrs of Le Francios
FU? Don't know what exactly that stands for..lol. ;}
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We can all say what needs to be done, but who here led by example today?
What do you think of these?
Explosion jets (squibs) moving up and down the towers. These are caught on all three towers and are only present when buildings are being demolished with explosives. Ask yourself why you never seen these in the MSM.
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
It's because they were never shown.....
Richard Gage's 9/11 Blueprint
http://video.google.com/v...
I Believe ...
that most controlled demolition experts would tell you that controlled explosions should occur from the bottom up not the top down. Also, look at the structure remaining after the collapse. This was not controlled. Simply a chain reaction from the upper floors collapsing on the lower floors.
Hence the explosion(s) recorded below by several witnesses
Explosions still do occur in stages on other floors after this.
And the pancake theory has been debunked by several analyses....
Depends on what you mean by question
Sure. you can ask questions, but it depends on how and what you ask.
Many times truthers tell people what happened, and then insult them if they don't agree.
Many times people that claim they are questioning, but are really misstating facts or repeat incorrect things they read somewhere.
And some people make claims that are outright crazy, and so no one takes them serious, and they loose credibility.
In politics there is nothing worse than losing credibility with the general public, and if they think your supporters are a bunch of nuts, you have a hard time getting past that. RP had trouble with this guilt by association issue.
noone is really try to insult anyone
just educate , I work in the construction field have a degree in structural engineering and have worked in the business for over 15 years now. I know steel and steel does not melt with conventional fire it just doesn't. ever not possible. go read and learn about it then comment. as a man who spends his time building things every day I know a lot more about construction than most people when it comes to how the physical world is constructed or in this case demolished.That is also half of my job. removing building to replace them.
Some people see this
as a PR issue.
Individually, some people have made the assessment that discussing things like 9/11 is an impediment to PR for the campaign.
While not often stated, it is likely because these folks believe the official stories. Perhaps some don't.
However, there is some truth to the notion that in a country full of people who are uninitiated into anything political, much less anything that might question the government, that it might be entirely correct that these subjects might not be a PR winner.
This is something that should be considered.
The other side of the coin is related to not being particularly concerned with what is a "PR winner" , but instead getting out information that could wake people up. And that has some appeal to it as well.
In the end, we are going to do what we think is best, on an individual basis. I don't see anything that is going to make people stop talking about things that bug them.
So, we go with what we've got. Different people push different buttons.
Different temperaments, talents, and convictions, but all interested in helping freedom.
I don't see anything very wrong with that. It's a strong push on alot of different fronts, and some may be influenced in all the different ways.
Whatever you decide to present to people, do it professionally and with supporting data or at least circumstantial evidence, and do it with dignity.
People are repulsed by raving idealogues, so bring the message clearly and with aplomb. That will get the best reception.
And often, it is best to let people start to "get their feet wet" with some of the more simple and less controversial subjects first, before "dropping the bomb" on them, if you know what I mean.
Well Said
Exactly.
Whole heartedly!
How did the fire department rig and bring down building 7 on 911.
I don't know any firemen who have been trained to do that!
http://blacklistednews.co...
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Watch and feel the power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If this Government had a hand in 911 they should be in jail!
20 years of Bush and Clinton is enough to have destroyed America.
How can you love a movement like ours without asking why you love it?
I love it because it would be honest in power.
"Speak truth to Power"
So you are not wrong to demand an answer.
The only conspiracy is the story the Government put out.
65% of the people don't believe it!
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.
.
Consider this people..
Personally, I think that anyone who has doubts about 911 should publicly express them. Its not like politicians and government employees have never been caught in a lie. Sure, you could be ridiculed, but everyone has a right to his opinion, and the official 911 investigation was hampered from the start by the highest levels of the Bush administration.
But also know, that only 1 public political figure has ever questioned the validity of the government's story of 911 on National TV.
Now who do you think that might be?
Who was it?
Who was it?
Mr.
Jesse Ventura.
Eric Hoffer
the truth
will set us free
In one sentence...
What's wrong with questioning the msm version of 9/11?
It does not help Ron Paul get elected.
The truth is we do not know the truth about 9/11.
Is this not the foundation upon which the truth movement was built?
Not exactly...
I'm not a member of the "movement"... But from what I can gather, I'd say it's built on the foundation of "we want the truth about 9/11"...
As ron paul said. we who
As ron paul said. we who know the truth have an obligation to speak it.
I think he is a wise man.
I completely agree. The
I completely agree. But the purpose of this site is well known. It is to support and advocate the candidacy of Ron Paul. While there is certainly nothing wrong with questioning the official story behind 9/11, just what is wrong with taking that discussion to one of the many thousands of sites devoted to doing just that? Why must it constantly be done on THIS site, which is devoted to an entirely different end?
www.paulforronpaul.com
my sister summed it up unintentionally
I started talking about politics and world events and she told me that in proper mixed company there are things you should never talk about. I replied " So then when do the important things ever get discussed ?"
Critical thinking is not allowed in society now ?
That's apparent.
Espically here of all places where I thought true freedom of thought should be able to be trumpeted. My thinking is that... were there not a problem of some circumstance then it wouldn't even be brought up in the first place. People only say something when it has greatly affected them.
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We can all say what needs to be done, but who here led by example today?