The seed of "Zionism". The "Occult"
Posted May 8th, 2008 by NotOverYet
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"Fear, and Hate is a great tool to bring radical change and rally the uninformed populace to your cause"
The 5 part documentary below is very important to watch. Those people are very well organized, politically active, and come in many different shapes and forms like political, or social organizations that lobby Senators and Congressmen day and night for interests that only serve their greed(which is their right but as Ron Paul said they lobby in a deceitful manner, Lobbying as American organizations representing American interests, while they should be lobbying as Israelis for Israeli interests or global domination interests instead)
McCain supporter John Hagee
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
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PBS Documentary. 'Strike Iran for Israel'
(Part 1)
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
(Part 2)
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
(Part 3)
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
(Part 4)
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
(Part 5)
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
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Very dangerous, influential and destructive; to the extent that Old Right Conservative leaders such as Pat Buchanan refered to Congress as the "Occupied Territory"(you make your own connection). Currently they have hijacked both Foreign and domestic policies through arms like the gun grabbing Anti Freedom of speech ADL, AIPAC, pro abortion institutions etc, even many Baptist Churches preaching their filth through "bought" televangelists like Pat Robertson, Hagee etc. etc.. Those morons seriously believe all the Muzlems & brown people in the Middle East should be exterminated through Nuclear Holocaust for the return of their "Messiah"(Hes Not Christ by the way and this isnt his way). How sick is this?
Its important to note that those people are very well organized and politically active. Something that we should be alerted of. Also there is no way to take Foreign and domestic policy from those hijackers without counter lobbying their efforts to make a world war three and bring A One World Facist Socialist Order
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And the Occult world is based on concepts directly out of the K
Kaballah. Aleister Crowley called the Kaballah his UnHoly book. Crowley was a high level judeoMason, who started his own satanic cult called the OTO. Science fiction writer L Ron Hubbard was an adept of the OTO. He was a member of the California chapter headed by Jack Parson founder of the JPL/NASA Ever wonder why all the NASA space program names are pagan names like the mercury and apollo programs Investigate the founders, of our space program and see how many of them are tied into secret societies and cults.etc..
L ron hubbard basically took Satan-ology , cleaned it up, and presented it as Scientology. Where you can pay for your sins with money to clear your conscience of any guilt for acquiring the wealth you gained thru ill gotten gains, instead of God. At the highest level of Scientology is a gay satan called Thetan 7. This is what Tom Cruise wants to attain.
What people should investigate is the WHITE BROTHERHOOD.
It is neither about a race or a skin color, but the highest level of Luciferian enlightenment.
The two groups with in the white brotherhood, running the planet are the Sabbatean Jews, and the Rosicrucian goys. All serve satan. Illuiminati are low level worker bees controlled by the Great White Brotherhood. The Sabbateans are in the drivers seat, with the Rosicrucians playing the role of the under capos
As for the idiot that claims that the Mormons new book is the same as the new testament is to the Torah... dude, get a life. And stop equating evil shit with Gods Word. It would do you a lot of good actually studying the New Testament.
Actually...
Sorry to so rudely butt in and correct you, but I happen to study Western Esotericism (yeah, I know, but I get to read conspiracy theory for class), and the "occult world" is not only based on the Kabbalah, Crowley did not found the OTO (Theodore Reuss did), and it is not "satanic" in any way. I think it's important for folks to know this stuff, so there aren't any more of those ridiculous "satanic panics" like back in the 80's with Geraldo prancing all over the country hunting down any evidence of human sacrifice...
The occult world also has foundations in Hermeticism (alchemy, divination, etc), ancient Egyptian cosmogony, Gnosticism, and Eastern religions--Hinduism and Tantra. Crowley was a member of the Golden Dawn (which used Rosicrucian allegory and Kabbalistic symbols amongst other things), and he and the Head Honchos got in a fight and Crowley broke into and commandeered their headquarters, swiped their secret papers, and he proceeded to make them public and publish his own interpretation.
Yeah, so Hubbard stole Crowley's "Magic in Theory in Practice" and spiced it up with a little sci-fi for the 21st Century...there's an interesting book about Parsons called Sex & Rockets.
I'm not so sure that the White Brotherhood really exist anymore (of course you'd tell me that's EXACTLY what they want me to think), because there was an organized group of Theosophists back in the day, but now the term is a generalized label for the supposedly "enlightened" Illuminati--whose members (if you are inclined to accept their existence) we VASTLY outnumber, I might add.
(BTW. I also read the New Testament too. Not in terms of "God's Word" but because it's interesting.)
Sorry, I had to get that out. You can imagine how many opportunities I get to talk about this material!
DUDE
Whoa!
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"RON PAUL SUPPORTER SINCE 1997"
RON PAUL 2008 / RE-ELECT 2012
Great post!
I will look up this white brotherhood.
Jewish response to ignorant Xtians.
Analogy: The Book of Mormon is to the New Testament as The New Testament is to the Torah.
Just as the Book of Mormon believes Joseph Smith's revelations are "new and authoritative" to Xtianity so does the New Testament claim to be "new and authoritative" to the Torah. Neverthless, the issue can be resolved if we all accept to place ourselves at Mt. Sinai and look foward rather than accepting a given belief system and then looking retroactively to the past for support and evidence.
Starting at a common point avoids 6.000 years of argument.
In Judaism, we do NOT seek converts. Why? Because Judaism teaches that mankind can come to know G-d if he is Jewish or not. G-d made Gentiles for a purpose. So there is no need to change what G-d has already made good. Jews and Gentiles have different responsibilities: Jews have the 613 mitzvot and Gentiles have what is termed the Seven Laws of Noah.
Neverthless, I will give a simple proof why the man from Nazareth cannot be the Messiah.
A Jew is a member of the nation of Israel based upon his mother. (Deuteronomy 7:4) His tribal status and function is determined by his father.
1) A Levite man marries a pagan woman. Are the offspring Jewish? No. Membership in the nation is determined by the mother
2) A Levite woman marries a pagan man. Are the offspring Jewish? Yes. Membership in the nation is determined by the mother.
Now a member of a particular trive is determined by the father. An example of this today is the tribe of Levi (e.g. Levi Strauss) . Many Jews have a tradition handed down from father to son that they are of the tribe of Levi or sub-tribe Cohanim. You can only receive tribal status if your mother is Jewish as defined by Jewish law and your father is Jewish and a Cohen. Also, you must be genetic descendents. You cannot receive tribal status by adoption or remarriage. Also, it makes sense that one's function in the community would be determined by the physicalfather. Who would serve in the temple? The Cohanim (priests) the Leviim and their sons (women cannot serve in the temple).
1) If a Levite man and woman adopted a child from the tribe of Benjamin whose parents passed away is he a Cohen? No. The child is a member of the family, however, he is not allowed to eat the priestly offerings (terumah) since he himself is not a priest. Only a seminal physical descendent (semen/father/paternal) can receive the tribal status of a Levi.
2) A Cohen daughter has a child with a man from the tribe of Benjamin. Is the child a Cohen? No, because he can only learn and serve his function as a Cohen if his father is a Cohen. It is inherited patrilineally from Aaron to his sons. Without a Cohen father he would not learn the practical laws of serving in the temple. He is of the tribe of Benjamin.
OK, so why the long lesson about obscure tribal laws? How does this relate to the Messiah?
Well the Messiah is said to be of the tribe of Judah, a paternal descendent of David through Solomon. . . . which means
1) He must be a Jew by birth. Jewish mother.
2) He must be paternaly descended through Solomon, David's son of the Judaic Line.
3) This paternal descent is inherited from his father since tribal status is paternally based (Judah, Levi, Manessah)
So can the Nazarene be the Messiah...?????
1) Is his mother Jewish. Yes. Miriam's father and mother were of the Tribe of Yehudah and of the Davidic Line.
2) Is his father of the Davidic line through Solomon? No. Joseph his step-father is, however, as we have shown above priestly and kingly status is inherited on the paternal side that is genetic aka Y Chromosme. You cannot be a member of a tribe by adoption. If you have no Jewish father. . . you have no tribal status. Also, you cannot recieve tribal status via your mother. Even though Mary is of the Davidic line, it can only be passed via the father.
So based on the NT sources the Nazarene cannot be the Messiah, unless he was fathered by Joseph. If Joseph is the biological father than you have a claim to messiahship. That is a different discussion alltogether.
This idea would however negate the Virgin Birth and thus remove a major dogma of 95% of Xtianity.
Is the concept of Moshiach Jewish. . .yes.
Is the Virgin Birth Jewish. . . . .no. . . it was inherited and syncreted from pagan mythology (See Mithras)
G-d command the Jewish people to slaughter animals, "as I have commanded you" yet never in the Torah or Bible does he describe the method of slaughter, the type of knives, how do you determine if the slaughter is valid, etc.? So there must be an oral tradition to explain
why and how? How do you do something that G-d told you yet it is not in the Bible? Sola Scriptura and other Evangelical hermeneutical methods are inconsistent and do not work. The Bible does not self-interpret.
G-d commanded the Jewish people to wear phylacteries? What is a phylactery? How do you make one? Can you make it out of wood? leather? The methods and description of phylacteries are not given in the Torah. So how do you make something G-d does not tell you how to?
Sola fide, Sola Scripture does not exist in Judaism and never has. A Jew looks at the Bible as an outline. Nothing more. Without the rest of the oral tradition is is a skeleton with no muscles, organs or skin. It is incomplete.
Educated Jews do not reject the Nazarene because we are "stubborn to the Gospel". We reject it because to us it is nonsense. No if Xtainity is meaningful to you and you have no desire to question it, I recommend you delete my e-mail. However, if you are a little rebellious and intrigued give the links below a start until you can handle the primary source materials
As long as you accept Moses and Sinai as the basis for truth you will have the tools to determine if Xtianity necessarily follows.
For you matrix fans. . . .. do you take the red or blue pill? I offer nothing. Only the truth
http://www.simpletorememb...
http://www.messiahtruth.c...
You don't even need the genealogy, actually.
The messiah is supposed to bring peace to the world. Didn't happen. Ipso facto, Jesus is not the Messiah. Trying to move the goalposts with "but he'll come back and do it then" doesn't cut it.
-jcr
patriot...i have answered you...
now i ask you to answer these...
1st question-
Matthew 22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
Mat 22:42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
Mat 22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Mat 22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
(Jesus quoted from Psalms 110:1)
the 2nd question-
Luke 14:3 And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day?
You are wrong, here is why...
In the Christian bible, tells the generations from King David to Yeshua (Jesus). If you have access to a Bible, you can see in Matthew's first chapter the geneology of Jesus. 1:17 says, "Thus there were 14 generations in all from Abraham to David, 14 from David to the exile to Babylon, and 14 from the exile to the Christ (Messiah)." But if you count all of the last "14", how many do you get? 13 generations. This is probably a translation problem. Some Hebrew scholars believe that the "Joseph" mentioned was the father of Mary, not her husband, who also had this name.
no translation problem at all...
you just did not follow the pattern laid out...
Matthew 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.
if from Abraham to David are fourteen, and then David is counted again...
and from David to the carrying away into Babylon (to Jechonias)
then you must start counting again with Jechonias to Jesus Christ.
counting this way...each is 14 generations...
no translation problem at all
Ok, but...
Joseph, was Jesus step-father, how can he be 14th generation from David? I know he is the Messiah, by faith and by what he did in my life, but this acount makes me wander since yung age. Can you explain this please? (forgive for my poor English)
Jesus Christ had a...
Heavenly Father...whom Jesus came from and of whom Mary conceived.
Joseph was Jesus Christ's declared earthly father...who raised and provided for Jesus.
you would be correct in saying Joseph was Jesus' "step father" if it was another human that sired the child...but saying Joseph was Jesus Christ's "step-father" is not correct in this instance...for another man did not sire the child.
In the Scriptures...the Jews declared that Joseph was Jesus earthly father.
Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
Luke 4:22 And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph's son?
John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
John 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
God declared Jesus into Joseph's genealogy... the titles "step" and "half" (like half brother) were not used. Jesus' brethren were not called half brothers, but just plain "brethren". and Joseph was not called Jesus Christ's "step father", Joseph was just called Jesus' father (in small caps).
I don't argue either...
But I know that God works in the ways of legality (He never brakes his own rules). The salvation plan for exemple is all about a way to redeem the man folowing a set of rules. I am shure that Mary was direct descent of David, I just don't know how to prove that. The theory about the generations was the closest one I have got. Thanks!
Awesome answer
G-d does use rules.
The police have rules (e.g., speeding)
Nature has rules (e.g. gravity)
The questions regarding the Messiah pertain to
A) Does the candidate have a Jewish mother (matrilineal descent)
B) Does the candidate have a Jewish father that is in direct line with David via Solomon (paternal descent confers tribal affiliation).
If Mary had a Jewish mother than she is Jewish. If Mary had a Jewish father than she would receive the tribal affiliation of her Father.
According to Mary's geneology in the NT she is descended through David via Nathan (Solomon's brother) so she does not fulfill the requirements stipulated (1 Chronicles 17: 11-14)
Neverthless, Mary may be a descendent of Levi on her father's side (Luke 1:36) due to her relation with Elizabeth. If her father was a Levi and her mother a Judah then she would follow her father and be a Levi since tribe follows the father.
what "rules" are you saying He broke?
if God knits a child in the womb, regardless if a man was the father or God was the Father (as in Jesus' case). God is the Father of both children. He directed the lineages of both children. i do not understand what "legal" rule God broke.
I said...
He never brakes His rules. Sorry, I don't have enough English vocabulary to explain what I want clearly.
genealogies of Jesus...
if God knits a child in the womb, regardless if a man was the father or God was the Father (as in Jesus' case). God is the Father of both children. He directed the lineages of both children. i do not understand what "legal" rule God broke.
if you look at the genealogies in Matthew and Luke...you will find they are different. one is Joseph's and one is Mary's.
(to David)
Luke 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli,
Luk 3:24 Which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi, which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Janna, which was the son of Joseph,
Luk 3:25 Which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Amos, which was the son of Naum, which was the son of Esli, which was the son of Nagge,
Luk 3:26 Which was the son of Maath, which was the son of Mattathias, which was the son of Semei, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Juda,
Luk 3:27 Which was the son of Joanna, which was the son of Rhesa, which was the son of Zorobabel, which was the son of Salathiel, which was the son of Neri,
Luk 3:28 Which was the son of Melchi, which was the son of Addi, which was the son of Cosam, which was the son of Elmodam, which was the son of Er,
Luk 3:29 Which was the son of Jose, which was the son of Eliezer, which was the son of Jorim, which was the son of Matthat, which was the son of Levi,
Luk 3:30 Which was the son of Simeon, which was the son of Juda, which was the son of Joseph, which was the son of Jonan, which was the son of Eliakim,
Luk 3:31 Which was the son of Melea, which was the son of Menan, which was the son of Mattatha, which was the son of Nathan, which was the son of David,
Matthew 1:6 And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
Mat 1:7 And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;
Mat 1:8 And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;
Mat 1:9 And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;
Mat 1:10 And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;
Mat 1:11 And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:
Mat 1:12 And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;
Mat 1:13 And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;
Mat 1:14 And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;
Mat 1:15 And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;
Mat 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
both were of the tribe of Juda (son of Jacob)
Lets look at this in more detail
Here is our case:
A) You are a Jewish man/or woman**
B) Your biological father is from the tribe of Dan
C) Your biological mother is from the tribe of Judah.
Question: What tribe are you a member of?
Question: Please provide a source in the text that supports your answer.
** My definition of Jewish is a a member of the 12 tribes of Israel who received the revelation from G-d to Moses and Sinai and their physical descendents and converts who have a historical continuity to the Sinaitic event.
Patriot...
both were from the tribe of Judah. i posted it above in the genealogies.
Thank you
For the clarification. I never said that God broke any rule by the way, but again, thank you for your time, I learned a lot.
phlacteries...
"G-d commanded the Jewish people to wear phylacteries? What is a phylactery? How do you make one? Can you make it out of wood? leather? The methods and description of phylacteries are not given in the Torah. So how do you make something G-d does not tell you how to?"
was the command figurative or literal?
Exodus 13:16 And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt.
what did Jesus Christ say about them?
Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
Mat 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Mat 23:5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
Mat 23:6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
Mat 23:7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
Mat 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
Mat 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Mat 23:10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
Mat 23:11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Mat 23:12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Mat 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Mat 23:14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
Mat 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!
Mat 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
Mat 23:18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.
Mat 23:19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?
Mat 23:20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.
Mat 23:21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.
Mat 23:22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Mat 23:32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Mat 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
they make broad their phylacteries: these were four sections of the law, wrote on parchments, folded up in the skin of a clean beast, and tied to the head and hand. The four sections were these following, viz. the "first", was Exo_13:2 the "second", was Exo_13:11 the "third", was Deu_6:4 the "fourth", was Deu_11:13. Those that were for the head, were written and rolled up separately, and put in four distinct places, in one skin, which was fastened with strings to the crown of the head, towards the face, about the place where the hair ends, and where an infant's brain is tender; and they took care to place them in the middle, that so they might be between the eyes. Those that were for the hand, were written in four columns, on one parchment, which being rolled up, was fastened to the inside of the left arm, where it is fleshy, between the shoulder and the elbow, that so it might be over against the heart (u). These, they imagined, were commanded them by God, in Exo_13:16 whereas the sense of these passages only is, that the goodness of God in delivering them out of Egypt, and the words of the law, should be continually before them, in their minds and memories, as if they had tokens on their hands, and frontlets between their eyes; but they understood them literally, and observed them in the above manner. These the Jews call "Tephillin", because they use them in time of prayer, and look upon them as useful, to put them in mind of that duty: they are here called "phylacteries", because they thought they kept them in the fear of God, preserved in them the memory of the law, and them from sin; yea, from evil spirits, and diseases of the body. They imagined there was a great deal of holiness in, and valued themselves much upon the use of them (w); and the Pharisees, because they would be thought to be more holy and religious, and more observant of the law than others, wore these things broader than the rest of the people;
Better
OK, you gave me a definition of how to make phylacteries.
Thank you.
What is your source for this defintion? Is it in the Bible itself or did you find the description you mentioned of scrolls and verses in the Encyclopedia.
And if you are quoting a definition from a non Biblical source are you therefore interpreting the Bible with a definition that is outside the Bible itself?
Are you using the traditions of men to define scripture?
Anyone else please let me know if I am unclear
Nazereth...
Isaiah 9:1 Nevertheless the dimness shall not be such as was in her vexation, when at the first he lightly afflicted the land of Zebulun and the land of Naphtali, and afterward did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations.
Isa 9:2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.
Isa 9:3 Thou hast multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, and as men rejoice when they divide the spoil.
Isa 9:4 For thou hast broken the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, as in the day of Midian.
Isa 9:5 For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire.
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Jesus' father was Joseph? No...Jesus Father was GOD almighty. The promised seed is from a woman only by God. Mary was a virgin. Joseph did not father the child. God is the Father of Adam in the beginning...does God's pedigree count for nothing? God chose the Jews by Abraham. God made the nation of Israel. your interpretation of the Torah has a misunderstanding...Jesus is Immanuel-Our God with us. also, God placed Jesus in a particular situation with Mary and Joseph. If God chose Joseph to raise Jesus how is that "adoption"?
the virgin birth is pagan? then why did the prophets foretell it in God's Word?
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
a prophecy owned by the Jews (e) themselves to belong to the Messiah, and which was now fulfilled in Jesus; who as he was descended from Jesse's family, so by dwelling at Nazareth, he would appear to be, and would be "called a Nazarene, or Netzer, the branch"; being an inhabitant of Natzareth, or Netzer, so called from the multitude of plants and trees that grew there.
A Nazarene, as David de Pomis says (f),
"is one that is born in the city Netzer, which is said to be in the land of Galilee, three days journey distant from Jerusalem.''
1Samuel 16:18 Then answered one of the servants, and said, Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Bethlehemite,
Bethlehem...
Matthew 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Mat 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Mat 2:3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
Mat 2:4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
Mat 2:5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
Mat 2:6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
Genesis 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
the rule for whom is a Jew in Israel, is still established by whether or not the mother was a Jew or not...
beside...the Jews of the day called Joseph, Jesus' father...
John 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
John 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
Then please enlighten us "ignorant Christians"
about Kabbalah and the Talmud.
I've heard that Kabbalah is the original souce of most modern-day occult practices.
And the Talmud says Jesus was a sorceror, was hung for being one, he's boiling in excrement in hell, his mother was a whore, Christians should be treated like cattle, and it's ok to have sex with children. I'm going to go find those sources.
"I've heard..."
LOL
Judaism Discovered
Your post is hilarious. I was born Catholic, but now I am neither Catholic, nor Protestant, nor Muslim, nor any religion commonly known. I am a Christian and have been all my life; meaning, I following Christ and I endeavor to become Christ like - ALL GOOD, to rise above my selfish ways and to become more like Him - All loving and thus come back to the Father.
Jesus said the whole of the Law can be summed up in two commandments: 1. Love God with all your might, all your strength, all your heart, 2. Love your neighbor as yourself. The Golden Rule. He said to Love your enemy. I live my life by this truth. When I don't, I am miserable. True happiness is in God and Jesus and in following the Law. It is that simple. No need for "traditions" that only bind and do not free one to become closer to God.
Truly the state of israel and the zionist reject Christ and reject God's Law of Love. If they didn't, there would be Peace in the middle east. Unfortunately, some Palestians have reacted with violence to the injustice which they have and are enduring and this only feeds zionism more.
Personally, I do not believe there was a virgin birth. But what you say above is new to me. This is the first I know that Jesus is adopted, according to Judaism. Hmm? Unfortunately, there is a misconception regarding the immaculate conception. I do not understand it all, but I do believe that Joseph was Jesus' father. What then? If the Catholic and orthodox, traditional Christian teaching regarding the immaculate conception is wrong (which is likely it is and was concocted to further veil the truth) and Joseph is the father, then according to your own satement above - Jesus is the messiah.
Regardless of that, Jesus did no harm to anyone except to call out the Pharisees, Sudaccees, etc. (the ancestors of the current rabbinic elite) for what they were and are - HYPOCRITES! and LIARS! He called them out and was showing the people the way back to God. He revealed the truth about them - that they follow their own law, their own oral tradition that they placed higher than the first commandment, made up by themselves and in opposition to God's law because they use it to control others.
He rebuked them when they chastised him for not washing his hands according to a tradition. He broke the tyranny of the oral traditions of the elders and sought to free the people so that they again would live as God commaded in Love, Peace and Goodwill to all. Does Israel live this way? Does Israel follow the Laws given to Moses - thou shalt not have any other gods before me, thou shalt not steal, thou shalt not kill, etc. The state of Israel commits murder against innocents and seeks to punish the Palestians as a whole vs. seeking justice from the individual that committed the act of terror. Has not Israel and settlers stolen the land from the Palestianians?
I am not anti-semetic. I do not hate anyone. I love and pray for the blessing of ALL. But as a supporter of our Constitution and our American tradion, I take a definite, positive stand for what is right! Our meddling in the middle east must STOP and Israel's meddling in our affairs must end as well! The way the Palestinians (Christian and Muslim) are being treated is inexcusable. It's about time Christians understand that Jews are not God's chosen people. If Jews want to believe, so be it, but I don't. WE ARE ALL GOD'S PEOPLE! Jesus said what is done to the least among us is done to him showing the unity, oneness of all life.
All sincere truth seekers, get this book "Judaism Discovered".
http://revisionistreview....
http://www.revisionisthis...
Another good webiste is www.realjewnews.com. Read Brother Nathaneal Kapners story about his conversion from orthodox Judaism to orthodox Christianity.
Make a donation if you feel moved to do so.
God Bless All and God Bless America!
Thank you
I enjoyed your comments and I am glad I made you left.
I would like to clarify a few comments.
First, I would challenge you to examine the Xtian definition of "law" and the Jewish concept of halacha. Wikipedia should help. Halacha is process like the scientific method where one can analytically determine what one should do, e.g., What is considered death? Brain or Heart failure? When should one pull the plug if one is a vegatable? IIf one steals bread and is starving is it theft?
I can state that the defintion of Judaism and law as Paul describes in his epistles as Judaism is not how Judaism understands itself. I would encourage you to read some balanced material
Second, In Judaism we have a parallel system of Moral and Ethics called the 7 Noahide laws (See wikipedia) that all humanity is encouraged to observe. That is why we do not seek converts. You are fine just as you are.
The Laws themselves are headings for other subcommandments. If you are not Jewish you have no obligation to eat kosher, wear tefillin, observe Shabbat. So the 10 Commandments are not for everyone. They are for Jews. Within the Halachic system are the Noahide laws (see wikipedia)morals and ethics (adultery, murder, stealing, etc.) that are universal and are not for Jews only.
Third, if Joseph was a descendent of David through Solomon (not Nathan) and was the physical father of Jesus through a valid Jewish Mother than he is a POTENTIAL Candiate yet not the only candidate. All Davidic descendents through Solomon can be candidates. The next question if we deny the Virgin Birth is to then analyze other subject matter. Let me know if that interests you?
I am very familiar with the writings of Alexander Men, Thomas Hopko and others from St. Vladimir's. If I were to accept Xtianity as a logical conclusion from Judaism then I would state that Orthodoxy is the best stated case since Sola Scriptura is inconsistenet and that the Augustinian tradition in Romanism dominates to the biased exclusion of Eastern Patristic methods.
Based on my study if Sinai is true and the Halachic method is valid than it is completely impossible for Xtianity to follow. Those are my assumptions
Appreciate your comments.
it is to bad that you do not understand the prophets...
of the "Torah"/Old Testament. if you did you would understand that the "New Testament" is just a witness to the fulfilling of Old Testament prophecies. if it is not explain these prophecies then...
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Deu 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Deu 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 53:1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
Isa 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
Isa 53:4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Isa 53:9 And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Psalms 110:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
Matthew 22:42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
Mat 22:43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
Mat 22:44 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Mat 22:45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
as for the book of mormon...that is another story.
Your response
First, I find it interesting that you did not respond to any of the comments, definitions or questions I supplied.
Why may I ask?
Often times when I discuss comparative theological ideas with people that contradict their own opinions they immediately avoid the subject matter and start quoting verses back and forth like an autistic child ignoring the world around him mumbling in the corner
Before we can even discuss a concept or idea we have to agree on what text we are going to use and what method of interpretation we are going to apply. This is analogous to building a home. . . .we have to agree on certain materials and then the plan to construct those materials into a home.
First the text. Since you are a Xtian and I am not we cannot use the NT as our data set. Neverthless, we can agree that the Five Books of Moses were given by G-d to Moses. Is that fair?
Now, since the Hebrew Torah Scroll has no vowels and since without vowels a series of letters can mean almost anything. How do we know which vowels to use since they are not included ?
I will give an English example of three consonants with no vowels:
BRD
Possible readings:
aBoaRD or aBiRD or BoRed or BReaD or BReD or BeaRD
I think the above question bring us to the most fundamental level.
the plain reading of Scripture answers your questions...
just read it.
it answered the virgin birth,
how the New Testament is tied to the Old Testament/Torah by eye witnesses telling that the Torah and prophets prophecies were fulfilled by Jesus Christ.
i used the OT to prove that Jesus Christ fulfilled them and He is the Messiah. if you don't want to see it, that is your choice.
???
I am embarassed there are Ron Paul supporters with such a low level of discourse and reasoning skills.
Do you have a confederate flag tatoo? Is Budweiser your favorite beer? Are there two seasons to the year, hunting and waiting for hunting?
Aynd Rand = Jewish thinker
Milton Friedman = Jewish thinker / Uof Chicago
At least the Revolution has somone that can lick stamps for the cause.
Anyone else in here that can respond intelligently that went to college for at least four years? Attorney perhaps?
address the Scriptures...
Patriot.
Patriot613
Do you know what they call a Christian who studies Judaism?
A convert.
Great responses and a welcome balance.
Lisa...
the difference is this...Judaism believers think they can be saved by following the "Law", commandments of God.
Christians understand that no one can keep the Commandments of God, that we are totally depraved. And that our only salvation comes through God's provision of salvation which was through the shed blood death and resurrection of His Son, Jesus Christ. who was God almighty in the flesh. This is the picture from the OT of Abraham, having faith in God to provide, took his only son, Isaac, and obeyed God, to the point of being willing to slay his only son, through whom the promise of a great nation was foretold to come. it was by faith that righteousness was accounted to Abraham, by God. it was not of works of following the Law/ commandments.
Why are you answering me
and not Patriot613?
He/She is the one asking you questions directly.
___________
Lisa C.
http://www.women4ronpaul....
Cognitive dissonance and Sola Scriptura
The problem Lisa with discussing comparative hermeneutics is that most people don't know the "how" of the derivation of a particular concept from a text. They only understand the "what" they have been told by their local pastoral authority on doctrine.
The questions below are a theological conundrum to use Greenspeak for those who accept the Bible as true.
1) How do you define work if you are to refrain from it?
2) How do you kosher slaughter according to G-ds command if the methods are not in the text?
3) How do you fulfill the vague command of Deuteronomy 6:8, 11:18 to bind them (??) to your arm and eyes? What do you bind?
Without a non-textual source to explain and define we have no answers.
And for most Xtians (Protestants especially) the doctrine of Sola Scriptura **pretty much dies here! Anyone seem to have a different conclusion
Sola Scriptura (Only Scripture)
"The true rule is this: God's Word shall establish articles of faith, and no one else, not even an angel can do so." (Smalcald Article II, 15 - Martin Luther
My eyes were opened when I studied with a Rabbi
for a year. I bought a Tanakh/Tanach and would sit with my father with his Bible. The OT and the Torah are not the same books. It was clear to me that the OT had been doctored to force it to support the NT.
___________
Lisa C.
http://www.women4ronpaul....
why can you not "reason" through the ...
prophecies above from the OT? and there are many, many, more we could go through from the OT also.
The text question,
Please respond to the text/vowel question mention prior so we can agree on a text.
What OT are you using? What Hebrew text are you quoting from?
Please validate your source. Do you accept the Masoretic text and the masoretic vowels as valid and true?
the Masoretic text...
is the text of the OT in the AV/KJV.if you want to take this into a Hebrew only discussion...i will not follow you there...for the KJV is God's Word in the English language...for it is of no private interpretation. and the Strong's concordance and definitions of Hebrew words are corrupted by corrupt men who wrote them, for they were occultists. Origin was a gnostic. Westcott and Hort were also occultists into mysticism. their texts cannot be trusted for they have corrupted them greatly.
With all due respect, I would simply ask everyone....
Too simply answer, [YES] or [NO]?
What you believe too be true, is true too you... :-)
With some things or everything, only [TIME] will tell naturally.... and I do not mean the magazine either :-P > Naturally, if individually "un-altered" [TIME] will tell the [TRUTH]... As individuals, I believe in the meantime we should do onto others as we would want done onto us, it only seems natural? Putting no restrictions on our knowledge and the advancement of such. Life is only as complicated as you choose to make it. Best Regards All..... "Onward" >>>
So you accept the Masoretic text?
So you also accept the vowel system that supplied the capacity for the Hebrew words to be understood and defined? (See above)
And if you accept the Masoretic text and the vowel systems of the Masoretes, then you are accepting a tradition (mesora) that does not exist in text itself. The Masoretic vowels used in the KJV/AV are taken from the Masoretes.
So you acknowledge the validity of a Jewish tradition that was handed down and was not included in the text?
That would contradict sola scriptura wouldn't it? And if you are accepting Jewish traditions outside of the text to support your religous beliefs then please define how one should slaughter a kosher animal since the method of slaughter is not included in the text? See Deuteronomy 12:21
In other words, how do we kill the beasts? Can we club them to death like baby seals?
Patriot...
it is only in the last couple of generations because of the industrial revolution that people have forgotten how to clean and dress animals. before then everyone knew how. just like fisherman learn early on how to clean fish to eat. there is no great mystery to cleaning animals.
There is a difference between how to do something
vs. how one has been instructed to do something.
___________
Lisa C.
http://www.women4ronpaul....
I think your on to something?
I think your on to something, [IamVoting4RonPaul] !
What you believe too be true, is true too you... :-)
Other stories of virgin births
http://englishatheist.org...
Israel is full of sin
Do Americans think that Israeli's walk around in prayer all day and eat unleavened bread for every meal?
People think the US is bad? Youtube some Israeli commercials, they would make most American's blush.
I have a friend (a gay friend) who has served in the Israeli Army. We were talking one night and he was telling me how he was thinking of going back to serve. When I asked him if they had a problem with gays in the army there (as he is very flame) he laughed and with a flick of his wrist and a pop of his hip he said to me, "Oh honey, their ALLL gay."
please show me one person that isn't...
full of sin and in need of a savior.
Sin?
sin 1 ( s¹n) n. 1. A transgression of a religious or moral law, especially when deliberate. 2. Theology a. Deliberate disobedience to the known will of God. b. A condition of estrangement from God resulting from such disobedience. 3. Something regarded as being shameful, deplorable, or utterly wrong. See note at offense . v. intr. sinned sin·ning sins 1. To violate a religious or moral law. 2. To commit an offense or a violation. [Middle English sinne from Old English synn; See es- in Indo-European Roots.]
sin 2 ( s¶n, s ¹n) n. 1. The 21st letter of the Hebrew alphabet. See note at alphabet . [Hebrew ïîn]
sin 3 abbr. Mathematics 1. Sine.
sine ( sºn) n. Abbr. sin Mathematics 1. The ordinate of the endpoint of an arc of a unit circle centered at the origin of a Cartesian coordinate system, the arc being of length x and measured counterclockwise from the point (1, 0) if x is positive or clockwise if x is negative. 2. In a right triangle, the ratio of the length of the side opposite an acute angle to the length of the hypotenuse. [Medieval Latin sinus ( mistranslation of Arabic jayb sine) (as if jayb fold in a garment) from Latin curve, fold]
es- . Important derivatives are: am 1 is yes soothe sin 1 essence absent interest present 1 proud To be. I. 1. Athematic first person singular form *es-mi . AM 1 , from Old English eam , eom , am, from Germanic *izm(i) . 2. Athematic third person singular form *es-ti . IS , from Old English is , is, from Germanic *ist(i) . 3. Optative stem *s º-. YES , from Old English g ¶se, yes, ( g ¶a, yea; see i- +/ s ºe), from s ºe, may it be (so), from Germanic *sijai- . 4. Participial form *sont- , being, existing, hence real, true. a. SOOTH , SOOTHE , from Old English s ½th, true, from Germanic *santhaz ; b. suffixed (collective) zero-grade form *s öt-y³, “ that which is. ” SIN 1 , from Old English synn , sin, from Germanic *sun(d)j ½, sin ( < “ it is true, ” “ the sin is real ”); c. SUTTEE ; BODHISATTVA , SATYAGRAHA , from Sanskrit sat- , sant- , existing, true, virtuous. 5. Basic form *es- . ENTITY , ESSENCE ; ABSENT , ( IMPROVE ), INTEREST , OSSIA , PRESENT 1 , ( PRESENT 2 ), PROUD , ( QUINTESSENCE ), ( REPRESENT ), from Latin esse , to be. 6. Basic form *es- . -ONT , ONTO- ; ( -BIONT ), HOMOIOUSIAN , PAROUSIA , ( SCHIZONT ), from Greek einai (present participle ont- , being), to be (in pareinai , to be present). 7. Suffixed form *es-ti- . SWASTIKA , from Sanskrit sv-as-ti- , “ well-being” (see su- ). [ Pokorny es- 340. See extension (e)su- . ]
What you believe too be true, is true too you... :-)
bump
bump
See my post from yesterday--
next page-- BTW Ron Paul has a balanced view on this- He said in his new book that the Israel lobby was of the bad sort, but also said that our foreign policy is partly to blame, in that we try to tell Israel who they can and cannot negotiate with.
Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make--Leslie Phillips