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The Future of the Revolution and 3rd Parties
Posted May 21st, 2008 by NeoConned
output
Here is something a member of a meetup group just posted. I will paste it here for everyone to read as I feel it is extremely well thought out and the only logical way to create lasting change for our civilization:
There has been quite a bit of discussion (bickering some might say) amongst the Revolution as to what to do next. i.e. whether to vote for a 3rd party candidate or ditch the Republican Party all together.
I, for one, don't think ditching the GOP is a very wise move and here is my reasoning for this:
1. The Republican Party, albeit totally warped and hated due to neo-conservatism, is still one of the only 2 major parties in this nation and that will not change any time soon. It's a household name. The Libertarian Party is looked at by the masses as something that is crazy, kooky, not good, etc., etc., ad nauseum. Not one person I've encountered has ever even heard of the Constitution Party.
2. Ballot access in all 50 states. No if's, and's or but's. Try that with a 3rd party. This is due to point #1.
3. Access to mainstream media equal to that of the Democratic party. Basically, free media exposure. 3rd parties get hardly any at all and that won't change any time soon. If they do it is always with marginalization of that party added in. They can't marginalize the Republican Party because of point #1 above.
4. As Ron Paul has shown, the core principles of the Republican Party are representative of both the Constitutional and Libertarians parties IF they are followed by those who are part of the Republican Party. At this point in time, the GOP is filled with a lot of uneducated people. They pay lip service to these beliefs but never follow through. For example, Barry Goldwater and the movement that was brought about by his run for the nomination is what eventually brought forth Ronald Reagan, the King of the GOP. Ron Paul is saying the EXACT same thing that both Reagan and Goldwater said and in fact, was the ONLY candidate running this year that was ever endorsed by Ronald Reagan. Although I don't think Ron Paul would endorse Reagan now because Reagan failed to follow through on the platform he ran on, I think it would speak volumes to the GOP masses if they all found out Dr.Paul was endorsed by him.
The GOP is pretty much dying off due to neo-conservatism. NOW is the time to flood the party from local levels on up with freedom lovers. If the Libertarian and Constitution Party members would just grasp that they stand a MUCH better chance at achieving their desired politcal goals by ditching the 3rd parties and helping take over the GOP we could EASILY get Ron Paul Republicans into Congress and educate all the neocons to the errors of their ways.
I staunchly believe that diffusing our efforts in trying to get the freedom message to the masses will be completely futile. They marginalized Ron Paul and he was part of one of the two major parties! My question is this. If we ALL band together and focus the Revolution's eye on taking over the GOP from the ground up, how will the mainstream media marginalize us if all the candidates they have to choose from in 2012 are Ron Paul Republicans?
If we took over the Rep. Party we could possibly set up rules for the platform that bans neo conservative belief systems altogether. i.e. If you do not accept to obey the Constitution in its entirety, you aren't allowed to be part of the Republican Party. We could turn this whole thing on them and force THEM into trying to start up some 3rd party. It will get no traction in the media because the masses will then see a stark, negative contrast between what they (neocons) advocate and what freedom loving Republicans advocate.
We have enough people and money to FORCE the GOP into becoming the Libertarian and Constitution Parties rolled into one. The biggest contrast between these two, as far as I can tell, is the War on Drugs. By us all working together to take over the Republican Party we will get to our goal MUCH faster.
The shortest distance between two points is a straight line...... a bee line of us Revolution worker bees right into the half empty hive of the GOP. I just really don't understand the logic of trying to accomplish something through a 3rd party.
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Give the man a chance.
Give the man a chance. Click on these links and do some real research.
http://www.dailypaul.com/...
http://www.dailypaul.com/...
LP Party
And it appears that the Libertarian Party is in process of being hijacked/assimilated into the Neocon UNIPARTY. Thanks to the subversive efforts of former CIA attorney, Bob Barr, et al.
http://fairuse.100webcust...
I would advise against consideration of "party" in our election decisions - we must vote on the individual record for every office on the ballot, every time. If you're unsure leave it blank!
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." -- Wendell Phillips
-LF
yep, they are trying to
yep, they are trying to infest the 3rd parties now. Time to ditch those parties and overrun the GOP.
You Are Right
Now is the time. Rise up!
"Walls are stronger than the men that defend them."
Ghengis Khan
I think I've said that it
I think I've said that it would be more effective to reform both the Democratic and Republican parties by building a Ron Paulist/Libertarian wing in both parties. Then we'd have Ron Paul Republicans and Ron Paul Democrats (and if the system allows for it to happen Ron Paul Independents). Running candidates for all offices (imagine if in 2012 we could have another Ron Paul candidate run for President but in both parties). And then we'd be a force to be reckoned with. I don't know how many of you are for the idea of reforming both parties but I'm one for sure.
I personally think if we can
I personally think if we can take over the GOP first we can then infiltrate the Dems. The Dems will put up a lot more of a fight right now than the GOP. Wouldn't want to diffuse our power just yet. That's my thoughts anyways.
Taking over BOTH parties...
That's the ticket. Fiscally conservative freedom-lovers in both camps. They've shown us that you can imbed both parties with overspending socialist freaks... why can't we do the same with decent people with integrity and love of liberty?
The freaks of oppression have had a monopoly on our 2 party system for a long time. We just need to take it back.
That could be an idea as
That could be an idea as well! Perhaps after we've taken over one party, we can infiltrate the other too :)
Just do what they did.
Make deep incursions into BOTH major parties and stack the deck against THEM.
THEY showed us the model. All we have to do is implement it.
I agree
and I think there is an effort to get us to leave the Gop to defuse Dr. Paul's
strength and influence. Peace
I think this is exactly
I think this is exactly right. Diffuse the power of the movement and they win yet again. Focus all of our might (the Revolution, LP and CP party powers combined) and we win. It's like Voltron or Omega Supreme. That's how we will make an impact.
from what I saw at my caucus
within 4 years most of the old farts wont even be here any more and they purge young people out at record pace cause they offer the young nothing but being worked todeath trying to pay their taxes so actually its a stincky job but with some luck with the chips falling right it might be a good idea.
Exactly. The GOP is RIPE for
Exactly. The GOP is RIPE for a take over.
What are we suppost to do
What are we suppost to do about this shit that seems to happen from time to time around the country?
http://morningsentinel.ma...
"Ron Paul is causing trouble for the Republican Party. He is still in the running for president despite a media blackout. And he will not endorse McCain, who hasn't a nickel's worth of difference from the two Democratic candidates.
Paul's positions are for a small and limited federal government. He would bring the troops home now, stop the looting of Social Security, stop our overseas spending to help reduce our debt and help veterans, children and seniors by cutting everyone's taxes.
I attended the Maine State Republican Convention held May 2 and 3 as a Paul delegate. I was optimistic, since the results of the caucuses held in February were Romney 52 percent, McCain 21 percent and Paul 19 percent, with Romney no longer in the running.
Eighteen people were to represent Maine in the Republican National Convention later this year. A selection of 36-40 delegates was nominated and seconded. The Paul supporters nominated were not included in a "Party List" handed out to all the state delegates just prior to the majority vote. Only one Paul supporter passed the gauntlet.
Hard to figure since Paul's book is No. 1 on the May 18 New York Times bestseller list.
The word "blackballed" comes to mind.
Reginald Ferran
Waterville
seafairer@hotmail.com "
They can only black ball us
They can only black ball us for so long. If there are multiple hundreds of supporters from the LP, CP and Revolution showing up with video cameras etc....there isn't much they can do to stop us.
IF it can be done, I agree.
IF it can be done, I agree. Taking over the Republican Party will not be easy, and it can't be done in a few months' time. It will take years. And after you do it, if it can be done, do you know what will happen? All the wealthy, powerful crooks will bolt the party and THEY will form a Third Party, while simultaneously mobilizing their friends in the news media to help them in the new cause.
Bear in mind also that staying with the Republicans eliminates our chances of seeing Dr. Paul become President of the United States.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Im thinking long term here.
Im thinking long term here. Even if Ron Paul became president we are STILL going to have to take over the GOP. Otherwise when his 2 terms are up we will be back in the same boat.
Just change who the 2 major parties are:
How can we change the political landscape back to one of liberty, peace and prosperity? It all comes back to money.
I believe it is indisputable that the U.S. electorate as a whole is pretty ignorant when it comes to voting and politics. About 90-95% of the people will never be truly engaged in the political process, and will just pile on to whichever bandwagon happens to be packaged the prettiest. I furthermore believe that with such a huge majority of disengaged; the marketers of these bandwagons have rightly determined that the electorate can only handle a two-dimensional (two-party) version of the issues. Everything is left vs. right as if every issue can be neatly plotted on a straight line between liberal and conservative.
Based on this pessimistic view of our citizenry, there are only two choices to correct our malaise. I believe the only ways to achieve the turnaround is to play within the existing system. That means either taking over and converting one of the existing parties or raising up a third party to the point that it can replace one of the two parties (thus maintaining the two-party system). At the beginning of the process the 90% of the disengaged are irrelevant. The key is to get the leadership and the activist in place. Then with that infrastructure we only have to win the “pretty package” battle to bring the electorate on board.
The good news is that I think we are real close. In the last 12 months huge numbers of pro-liberty activist have joined the cause and many are now running for office and holding leadership positions on local levels. All we really have to do is have more grassroots activist than whichever party we want to replace. As soon as our 3% of the politically engaged is larger than their 3%, then we can begin marketing to the masses. In very quick order, we can go from 3% to 50%, and the party we are replacing will go from 50% to 3%.
We are close, not only because of the upswing in the numbers of our activist, but also because of the complete disintegration of one of the major parties. Of course I am speaking of the Republican party. Every story I have read the last 3 days foretells the doom of the party in the next election and beyond. The best part is that the Republican’s believe that more of their existing rhetoric will help them. It won’t. The landscape is ripe for a new party with the infrastructure and the funding to step forward. Which bring me back to my first point. The only thing we still need is the funding.
The long-term solution to funding is to tap the 90% of the disengaged electorate. They will think that they are engaging in the political process, because they send $50 to the national party once a year, although they probably do not have any idea what they are contributing to. However, before tapping the 90% is an option, we have to make that 3% to 50% jump. The grassroots have demonstrated the ability to raise money, and that is essential, but we really need some heavy-hitters to provide the initial catalyst for the party-conversion marketing plan.
Longer term we could begin picking off existing politicians with a pro-liberty message to change parties. After enough pro-liberty Republicans changed parties (or were voted out of office), the remaining Republicans, in the interest of self-preservation, would decide to either merge with the other big-government party or they would change their positions to jump to the pro-liberty party. This coup would be very susceptible to being taken over by an influx of big-government neocon Republicans, but that is why we had to get the leadership and infrastructure in place first.
Again, I think we are really close and may actually be ready to start marketing to the masses if the funding was in place. As to the new party to replace the Republicans: I don’t really care. I believe the Libertarians have the best structure in place, but it could also be a Constitutional party or any other yet to be created party. The essential component is all of us: the grassroots activist. And I am sure all of us would gladly jump to a new pro-liberty party that had the momentum to replace an existing party.
I'm
on board.
I'm a registered Republican
I'm a registered Republican but I usually end up voting Libertarian Party in the General Election. I'm registered as a Republican so I can vote in GOP Primaries. The LP primaries are a joke for the most part so there is no point in me wasting my primary vote in that race. This election was the best Republican primary because of Ron Paul. I actually had a candidate that I wanted to vote for 100%. I never had that before. I always ended up voting for the "smartest dumbass of the bunch" in previous GOP primaries.
However, I have made several posts about voting for the LP or CP candidate in the general election. Because it is pretty well established and agreed upon that RP will not get the nomination. He will just get a speaking slot at the Convention, which is still good. The Revolution of rebuilding the local GOP districts and precincts is great. Promoting and voting for "Ron Paul Republicans" for House and Senate is also great.
But, when McCain wins the nomination for the GOP, then what? HE CANT WIN THE GENERAL ELECTION! If he wins, then the GOP will be much harder for the RP Revolution to change. The RP Revolution will be a hell of a lot easier if McCain looses. Obama and Hillary suck, but at least them winning the presidency will put the GOP in a state of chaos even larger than it is now. That will create more opportunity for the RP Revolution.
All the serious posts, including mine, about 3rd party candidates were really only talking about just voting LP for the general election, thats it nothing more. I'm still a lifelong member of the GOP.
Nope.
Dr. Paul was the last hope of the GOP.
We're seeing the Whigs demise happen again.
Not to rebut this ridiculous argument before I hit the road for the LP convention, which is real convention and not some orchestrated dog-and-pony show:
1. GOP may be a household name, but so are termites, cockroaches, and other destructive pests. Ditto the Democrats. Both are just the heads of the hydra. Both are for big statist government. The only difference is how they want to do it. The LP is not viewed as kooky, and since the LP *IS* the political middle (not GOP-lite, and not on the far right like the CP), then the biggest problem is equal access, and the DP and GOP have stacked that deck. (And I don't see any delegates proposing changes to the GOP platform to call to unstack it, either, and then you complain about rigged votes!)
2. LP has had 50-state ballot access in the past, and will be on 46-48 this year. Again, it's draconian ballot access laws that YOUR GOP has rigged. If it wasn't rigged, then the complaint is valid. But since the GOP helped engineer the rigging, STFU or fix it.
3. Gee, with the corporate media subsidies and tax breaks that the GOP give them, and the call by the LP to repeal them, is there any reason why? We saw that with Dr. Paul pretty clearly.
In ten years the GOP will join its predecessors the Whigs on the political ash heap of history. The DP will run this country into the ground. Third parties are the only way to save it.
Yet you complain about that and try to marginalize them in the same way the GOP schmucks in charge marginalized Dr. Paul. Pot, this is kettle, you are black!
And if you think that the only difference between the GOP and the LP is the WoD, then perhaps you ought to watch some CSPAN this weekend and watch a *real* political convention, where nothing is predecided and there is no Kool-AId. That, and go do some real research.
Sorry, the GOP of Taft, Goldwater, and Paul is dead. It has been replaced by the neoconliberal GOP Titanic with Captain McCain at the controls, and the iceberg hits in November. If that weren't the case, Dr. Paul would be nominee.
Call me, a guy who campaigned for Dr. Paul in 1988, a troll, but I predicted this when the GOP took over all branches of the government that this would happen. I was right.
BTW, the shortest distance between two points is not necessarily the best route OR the easiest.
Well, I agree with your
Well, I agree with your points, but this isn't a ridiculous argument, because it's crucial to the advancement of the Ron Paul Revolution toward actually winning elections.
Our movement is advancing on two fronts: There is an Intellectual Revolution, and there is an Electoral Revolution. We are winning the Intellectual Revolution, and losing the other.
The neo-con/"New World Order" GOP is in no danger of going anywhere because it has tremendous financial backing and power. I believe we can defeat them IF, and only IF, we use political guerilla tactics.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
And my counter points to
And my counter points to yours are these:
1. GOP may be a household name, but so are termites, cockroaches, and other destructive pests. Ditto the Democrats. Both are just the heads of the hydra. Both are for big statist government. The only difference is how they want to do it. The LP is not viewed as kooky, and since the LP *IS* the political middle (not GOP-lite, and not on the far right like the CP), then the biggest problem is equal access, and the DP and GOP have stacked that deck. (And I don't see any delegates proposing changes to the GOP platform to call to unstack it, either, and then you complain about rigged votes!)
The LP is viewed as kooky, odd, or not even known by the vast majority of the voting population. Just walk around your neighborhood and ask every single person you bump into if they've heard of it before and if so, what the LP stands for. Out of the 804 ppl that I have asked (im keeping count) in my neighborhood, at the store, at the movie theater, at work etc over the last 3 months there have been only 123 people that even knew about the LP and of that 123 the vast majority (102) thought the primary goal of the LP was to legalize drugs, gambling and prostitution. The others had a semi understanding of the LP's stances. The whole point in the LP and CP parties joining the REvolution in taking over the GOP is to HAVE the amount of delegates needed to put forth platform measures that are in line with liberty and freedom.
2. LP has had 50-state ballot access in the past, and will be on 46-48 this year. Again, it's draconian ballot access laws that YOUR GOP has rigged. If it wasn't rigged, then the complaint is valid. But since the GOP helped engineer the rigging, STFU or fix it.
It IS rigged and it's not going to get unrigged unless the LP and CP parties join up with the Revolution and take over the GOP and unrig it.
3. Gee, with the corporate media subsidies and tax breaks that the GOP give them, and the call by the LP to repeal them, is there any reason why? We saw that with Dr. Paul pretty clearly.
Exactly. Now if the entire GOP is changed from the inside out due to a massive take over from the LP and CP parties combining with the Revolution to do so.......the Media will HAVE to put forth nothing but liberty minded candidates because that's all there will be for them to choose from.
**BTW, the shortest distance between two points is not necessarily the best route OR the easiest.
If it were easy the change would have occurred already. You want to have Libertarian ideals taken seriously in the political realm within your lifetime?
The fastest route is the straight line. Take over the GOP and force the Media to have only Libertarian minded candidates to give coverage on.
"Now if the entire GOP is
"Now if the entire GOP is changed from the inside out due to a massive take over from the LP and CP parties combining with the Revolution to do so.......the Media will HAVE to put forth nothing but liberty minded candidates because that's all there will be for them to choose from."
No, the media will do whatever it pleases and whatever its OWNERS tell it to do.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
There won't be enough time
There won't be enough time to create and push a new party by the old gaurd GOP before the election in 2012 :) They will HAVE to put forth nothing but liberty minded candidates from the Repub. Party if that is all there is to choose from :) Checkmate.
You have this backwards.
You have this backwards. THEY have all the time in the world, because they have power, money, and influence that we don't.
WE are the ones who have to come up with creative and clever solutions.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
The only reason they have
The only reason they have power is because it is given to them through the political process. All the money in the world can't stop an idea who's time has come. The ONLY thing we have to do is take over the GOP in droves. Combine the Ron Paul Revolution with both the LP and CP members and man, there is NO stopping this. We can do this. We just have to focus the eye of the Revolution on the weakest link which is the GOP. They are losing Congressional seats left and right. Most folks have jumped ship. Imagine it like this. The GOP used to be this impregnable fortress with hundreds of thousands of troops inside and the support of the people within. Now, hardly any of the people support the troops and most of the troops have gone awol. The castle LOOKS impregnable but there are only a very small contingent of guards actually gaurding the door. All we have to do is take a battering ram and smash through it and we win.
Why do you accept their brainwashing name, "3rd party"?
"first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks...will deprive the people of all property" -Thomas Jefferson
The same reason almost the
The same reason almost the entire population in this country does. That's what the media tells them. So let's give them something to talk about in the form of a completely overrun Republican party :)
Hold your nose
There's some nasty work ahead if we're going to clean up the GOP. The party (and the nation) must be cleansed of neocon filth. But I agree, if the two-party status quo cannot be shaken off then we have to drive one of the two political vehicles to the land of liberty and the GOP is our best bet.
Well thought out...
...and well written. I certainly agree with the author's points and ideas, however...as I said in a post on the thread "You're Fired", I don't believe running for office will work. I don't think we have enough time. I'm not sure there will even be an election this comming November. I believe that our time as a functioning nation is a LOT SHORTER than you think. I believe that an artificial attack is imminent, and Marshal Law is right around the corner...my guess is this August. Marshal Law will suspend the election process indefinitely.
What the writer is proposing is wonderful...but it takes time as the trickle-down theory usually does. I just don't believe we have the luxury of time.
I hope I'm wrong.
--------------------------
BC
Recently awakened, always vigilant. I
f you're not outraged, you're not paying attention!
It's very possible
that we don't have the luxury of time. If martial law is established and elections are cancelled, I'm ready. But just in case it doesn't happen that way, we must have a long term (multi-year) plan to restore liberty. I believe that the quickest way is through the GOP. If there's fighting in the city streets and the countryside, God help us all.
I think you are on the money
march on D.C. 7/12/08 now on never
You are absolutely, 100%....
right on target here! This is what Ron Paul has been trying to get us to realize and basically says so every time -- and there have been hundreds of times -- that they ask him if he will run 3rd party.
Good post, NeoConned.
--------
We don't know how to mind our own business
'Cause the whole worlds got to be just like us
Now we are fighting a war over there
No matter who's the winner
We can't pay the cost
-Steppenwolf 1969
Just to clarify, I am not
Just to clarify, I am not the author, just the messenger. I agree wholeheartedly with the logic and figured it would be good to bring here to the dailypaul.