WORKING-CLASS students have lower IQs than those from wealthier backgrounds and should not be expected to win places at top univ

IF we treat people like individuals, and allow people to achieve whatever they are capable, then who cares. If you judge a person based on some group they belong to, you are an idiot.

Further, judging someone based upon the university they attended, is just as foolish, as there are plenty of criminals and frauds from the major elite universities.

A good book on the subject was titled The Bell Curve by Richard J. Herrnstein. It tracked the economic success of IQ tested individuals well into mid life. Studies were done in US on people tested as children in the 1950's and 1960's. The results were, in general people with higher IQ scores as children achieve greater success as adults.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...

Humors were once thought of as the height of medical science, it was how Hippocrates diagnosed and treated the people of ancient greece. My point was to take somethign that was clearly false and then put it into an argument with simular container...

The beginning of your argument gave me the impression that you were leaning on genetics as the primary cause for the difference.

The second part you acknowledged that social conditions also had a part to play but seemed to be a lesser part...using the example I did I said the humors being out of balance was the primary issue. Then gave a long string of things that contributed to the subject's state of health, then reinforced the humor connection. Humors had no part to play because they're not real.

That's not to say genetics isn't real, but I don't believe everything is as strongly programmed as that. I see the genetic component like a container...say someone who has been bred through a complex and long lasting eugenics program has the genetic equiv of a 16 oz glass and someone from the lower class has the equiv of a 12 oz glass. Now what is poured into that glass comes from the enviorment....now, in order to get into a top university all you really have to do is apply yourself and/or have connections. So, we'll say that in order for someone from the eugenics program (upper class) has more connections so they only need to have 8 oz of academic juice. Whereas some oen from the lower class must rely almost entirly upon their abilities so they must have 10 oz of academic juice.

Anyone has the chance to truly succede and even excel at anything, the difference coems into play when they come close to reaching their full potential..very very very few people do that. Even the desire to reach one's full potential is a social factor. So, the upper classes are more willing to put themselves beneath the faucette.

EDIT: This was originally a reply to a diffrent comment further down but I didn't click reply to the correct post after logging in. I apologize for any confusion, but I feel most of this post is appropriate enough without the context of the other reply.

dbpl post

Genius drives humanity forward and can appear spontaneously in anyone, regardless of ethnicity or social class.

I thought the following quotes apply:

"Innovators and creative geniuses cannot be reared in schools. They are precisely the men who defy what the school has taught them."

"Education rears disciples, imitators, and routinists, not pioneers of new ideas and creative geniuses. . . . The mark of the creative mind is that it defies a part of what it has learned or, at least, adds something new to it."

"The first thing a genius needs is to breathe free air."

-Mises

woops - double post.

IQ measures your ability to take tests. IQ tests are biased culturally and the people creating them are not geniuses and often their answers are just plain wrong for reasons they are not bright enough to grasp.

Environment contributes at least half. And yes diet, particularly in infancy plays a part. The current obsession with low fat diets is particularly troubling because fat is very necessary to the the developing nervous system.

Current research demonstrates that neuroplasticity is real and our brains are physically changed by our thoughts and deeds and they can keep developing and improving at any age but it is the old use it or lose it.

Finally, I have been a member of Mensa and I assure you that having a high IQ does not mean you can't be an idiot. Scoring high on a standard test does not mean you can function well in the real world and problem solve when it actually matters.

in some way?

I think George Bush debunks this whole thesis in its entirety.

Generational wealth has its benefits but a high IQ is not one of them. The likely reason for generational success is that there is a good deal of coaching (or cheating), connections (nepotism) and exposure to information that is helpful for little Lord or Princess Fountleroy.

I've met very few really smart people and even fewer really stupid people, everyone is gifted in one area or another.

um, bullshit?

families basically accept their circumstances. With the proper motivation and coaching, they can achieve as much or more than the "wealthy".

Education is key and you can do that on your own. READ, READ, READ! Hang out with like minded people or successful people, of those you admire and would like to pick their brain.

"You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with." Jim Rohn

Read RichDad/PoorDad by Robert Kiyasaki. Formal education does not equate to wealth or success. It's how you use what you have been given.

I like Napoleon Hill's book, "Think and Grow Rich", The Original Version Restored and Revised.

These two books can help anyone achieve a paradigm shift, and not live in fear and scarcity. Success and wealth are all part of the mind, and money isn't necessarily proof of success.

The third book, "The Richest Man if Babylon".

Shaquille O'Neal has a higher true IQ than George W,,,,,And probly better than 90% of washington,,,,, Working class just come to the reality that certain doors are probly going to be closed to them. Thus feel like they can not win,,,,,And ivy leaquers feel like the can not lose ,,,Thats your differance

http://www.americanexperi...

Wealthy parents are going to place more value on quality education, NOT government education. The government schools are training little blue collared owrkers that are taught to be liberals!

It's a very natural phenomenon you're seeing...nothing discriminatory going on here.

Basically, smarter people (in general) make more money. Children also generally have very similar IQ to thier parents. Children of wealthy parents will always have higher IQ's because their parents are intelligent.

There are also societal factors involved...that wealthy parents can generally raise their kids themselves, rather than rely on daycare and babysitters...that wealthy people can afford to send their kids to private schools, and that wealthy people will generally provide more enriching activities to promote intellectual growth, where working class people will send their kids to daycare, public schools, and plop the kids in front of the boob tube when they get home.

It is not without exception, though, because even working class people have the opporitunity to raise intelligent kids...they just have to work a little harder than most.

America provides the opporitunity, take it from there.

Fortune Favors the Bold

between IQ and wealth, but in today's age of information access, this should be less and less true. All the more reason to homeschool kids. Heck, I bet there would be some money to be made in offering online tutoring services.