What are you thoughts on joining the military??

will bea combat zone

… Never, Never, Never join the military. If you absolutely must join, the Navy or Air Force would be my only choice (although I was in the Marine Corps.)

You had mentioned going for hospital medical corpsman. The military lies through their teeth. If the military goes through the time and money to train you as a corpsman, you will definitely be escorting combat patrols in whatever (flavor of the month) war hellhole they have going at the time.

Keep in mind one very important fact: The military does not care about your welfare. Simply put, you will be nothing but more than a piece of meat. Even though you may never see a combat situation, you will ALWAYS be fair game for weapon, drug & psy-op experiments. The first thing you will get is a massive series of aluminum/mercury laden vaccinations. I had an allergic reaction, so when I got my many doses, I nearly died and was hospitalized for five weeks. You will still be permanently damaged/degraded whether you have an allergic reaction or not.

The best thing I ever did was talk my son OUT OF joining the military. The military is NEVER about patriotism and defending America. before actually joining you MUST visit a VA hospital.

But here are eleven excellent reasons NOT to join the military:

http://tinyurl.com/5ts5ps

The military is NEVER a career option. Ask yourself, why is it that politicians do not allow their offspring to join the military?

"It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." Samuel Adams

With all the illegal immigrants and criminals being recruited, we need good people in the military! We also need good examples of what soldiers should be doing. The military is being destroyed just like they did in the 70's when the military was rendered almost totally ineffective.

I believe we need our military. After all, they are one of the few that have pledged an oath to protecting the constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic!

Mike
"Fire Team for Freedom" on revolutionbroadcasting.com
Mondays thru Thursdays Midnight EST
or visit www.mikeandjake.com

but HELL NO. I absolutely refuse to "serve my country" in the way our service members have been being forced to do.

For those of you in the military, and actually understand what is going on in our country... I thank you for your service and am glad you are here if we ever truly do have our freedom threatened.

But I'm not going to sign up for the military to "defend our freedom" by fighting for corporations overseas, for control of oil, for a smoke screen to distract people at home to the fact that we are becoming a police state.

I refuse to fight for Empire. If our country ever truly has its freedom threatened (by an outside force other than our own damn government), then I may consider joining our military. But until there is actually a real threat to the country such as a "Red Dawn" situation, I won't be picking up a gun in the name of my government to "serve" them.

In my opinion, here is what you should do. Stay ALIVE. Don't sign up for politicians to send you to a desert to die just so they have an excuse to beef up the military and police state, in the name of "protecting our freedom".

If joining the military was a way to defend our freedom, then why when we send our service members overseas to fight, do our freedoms here at home get trampled? Nevermind the fact that many military members will say "tell me one time that your freedoms have personally been trampled". As if it's not really happening. The fact is, when one person has their rights violated, we are all in danger. When the power is given to law enforcement, to government, to ignore our rights... you are all in danger.. whether you ever are personally affected or not.

Go back to school, make something of yourself. Why risk going off to a false war to die for nothing? Refuse to be a pawn in our politicians game.

and marching into a recruiter's office, knowing what most Ron Paul supporters know, would be a very interesting vote to cast. You would willingly take Bush as your Commander in Chief? You understand the concept of "chain of command" and would volunteer to go take orders from people who will do anything, say anything, to wage war? And you see this as an "opportunity?" I guess if you aspire to a funeral with military honors, this is the best opportunity in the world.
PersonaIly, I call the White House comment line and fire Bush about once a week. In fact, I have fallen behind on that - got to run...

The NAVY would be the best bet. My daughter is the NAVY and doing well. She tested very high and has literally had her pick as far as jobs go. That being said, when her time is up (1.5yrs) shes out.

She said everyone is just trying to cover their ass and the lack of comrodery is very sad. Shes a motivator, doer, go getter, and the majority of the kids are there just because its a better life than the getto or trailer park they were raised in.

As much as it has shaped her, and I think it would be great for every kid to experience what it should be, I would advise against going at all under this administation.

Peace Corps is good. Politics is good also.

a legitimate foreign policy.

never would i under this administration.

No retirement pay before age 57

Panel also recommends combining active, reserve retirement systems

By William H. McMichael - bmcmichael@militarytimes.com
Posted : February 11, 2008

A congressionally chartered commission has called for scrapping the entire military retirement system and making active-duty troops wait until at least age 57 to begin drawing retired pay.

The proposal, which would spell the end of the current active-duty system that pays nondisability retirement immediately after a service member completes a minimum of 20 years of service, is among 95 recommendations in the final report of the Commission on the National Guard and Reserve, which went well beyond its original charter to review the structure and management of the reserve components and delved into personnel policies for active-duty members.

Under current retirement rules, an active-duty member is eligible for retired pay immediately after completing a minimum of 20 years of service, which can be as young as age 37. However, reservists must wait until age 60 to draw retired pay, although a law signed Jan. 28 by President Bush allows reservists to draw retired pay 90 days earlier than age 60 for every 90 days of mobilization in support of a contingency operation.

Under the commission’s plan, a revamped retired system would grant limited retirement benefits starting at 10 years of service, although payments would not begin until age 62. Those who serve at least 20 years could receive payments at age 60; those who serve 30 years could get them at age 57.

Under the plan, troops could begin drawing retirement pay at earlier ages, but the annuity would be reduced 5 percent for each year that a member is under the statutory minimum retirement age.

The commission said that would bring the military in line with the Federal Employees Retirement System.

The commission concluded that combining the training, promotion and management of active and reserve troops into one integrated manpower system is the only way the nation’s military can become a truly efficient operational force for the future.

“The increasing cost of personnel, and the challenges of recruiting and retaining qualified individuals, will, we believe, inevitably require reductions in the size of the active force,” states the 432-page report, released Jan. 31. “This shrinking active force will necessarily be accompanied by an increased reliance on reserve forces for operations, particularly for homeland missions. The overall effectiveness of those forces will depend on greater integration of the reserves with the active component.”

The commission argued that modifying the 20-year retirements would give the services an incentive to retain troops whom they want to keep for more than 10 years but for less than 20. Additional pay or bonuses would be needed to keep such troops in uniform beyond 10 years to maintain retention rates.

“As part of the reformed retirement system, retention would be encouraged by making service members eligible to receive ‘gate pay’ at pivotal years of service,” the report says. “Such pay would come in the form of a bonus equal to a percentage of annual basic pay at the end of the year of service, at the discretion of the services.”

Matching funds for TSP

In addition, the report says Congress should expand current law to permit all service members to receive up to 5 percent of annual basic pay in matching government contributions to the Thrift Savings Plan. Service members currently receive no government matching funds for TSP contributions.

“The government’s contribution would vest at 10 years of service, and the Thrift Savings Plan benefit would be portable and thus capable of being rolled over into a civilian 401(k) account,” the report says.

Among the report’s other recommendations:

• The military’s promotion system should be competency-based versus time-based.

• Active and reserve officer personnel management systems should be merged into a single system.

• The number of duty statuses should be reduced from 29 to two — on active duty or off.

• The Defense Department should implement a combined pay and personnel system to eliminate problems with incorrect pay, low data quality, multiple personnel files and inaccurate accounting of credit for service.

• The Guard and reserve should be given the clear lead in Defense Department homeland security missions within U.S. borders.

The recruiting and job market landscape has shifted in dramatic ways, the commission said, which means the Defense Department “must recruit, train and maintain a technologically advanced force in an era that will be characterized by ever-increasing competition for a shrinking pool of qualified individuals whose expectations about career paths and mobility are changing dramatically.”

“We need to look at our manpower assets with a totally integrated approach,” commission Chairman Arnold Punaro said.

For active and reserve service members, such a system would create a “seamless” transition to and from active duty — “on-ramps” and “offramps,” as Navy personnel officials have described the concept. Basing promotions on competency rather than time would keep troops competitive within the system.

Reserve reorganization

The 95 recommendations in the report also include a call for the reserves to be reorganized into two formal categories: operational and strategic reserve forces.

The operational reserve would consist of Selected Reserve units and individual mobilization augmentees who would deploy periodically. The strategic reserve would include Selected Reserve personnel and augmentees not scheduled for rotational active-duty tours and the “most ready, operationally current and willing members of the Individual Ready Reserve,” the report says.

The commission also calls for scrapping the Standby Reserve category and said members who are not “viable mobilization assets should be excluded from the total reserve force.”

The Defense Department would have to consistently provide the support needed to ensure the sustained viability of both forces, and Congress and the Pentagon would determine the missions each would perform.

“There used to be an understanding that if you were ready for the away game, you were ready for the home game,” Punaro said. “Most everyone admits that’s not the case anymore. We need a very ready force at home in peacetime, just like we need a ready force for the overseas mission.”

The reserves were conceived as a strategic force that would be called to active duty only in national emergencies. But they have morphed over the past 18 years, beginning with the 1991 Persian Gulf War and spurred by the military drawdown of the 1990s, into an operational reserve that is now regularly called upon to meet the demands of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

“It’s clear that if you hadn’t had an operational Guard and reserve, you would have had to go back to the draft, which I think everyone agrees is ... pretty unacceptable,” Punaro said.

Punaro is “very bullish” on the prospects for the commission’s work to receive serious attention.

Half of the 95 recommendations “can be done immediately,” he said. About 40 will require congressional or presidential action, according to the report.

...deserve our respect. Not the lip-service respect of false patriotism, but respect for their courage and their sacrifice in the name of our country. The way they have been misused should only increase our outrage at the current administration. Never should any of that outrage be focused at the soldiers themselves, as often happened in the 70's.

It's hard to believe that I almost joined up after 9/11/2001. My views have changed so much in recent years, that there is no way I would even submit to a draft to join the military under the current administration, let alone volunteer. Think long and hard before you volunteer. Yes, the job market is rough right now, but there are still plenty of decent options available, even without a college degree. Just don't go into it the armed forces with any delusions about what you will be facing. Read about the number of troops coming home with post traumatic stress disorder, depression, and other mental health issues. It's sad, and I hate seeing our young Americans being misused so terribly.

But, as with politics we absolutely NEED good patriotic American men & women in uniform to defend us. If those of us who care about our Constitution, our country, and the liberty they are supposed to protect don't serve, the end result would most certainly be disasterous.

So, that said, if you do decide to enlist...do so knowing you may have to follow lawful orders which you may not agree with but also that you carry the responsibility of objecting to and not following those orders which are not lawful. You bear the responsibility of learning which is which.

Have you ever been to an Army/Navy game? In the opening ceremonies, both schools march out, one at a time, and do their respective cheers. It is one of the most impressive displays I have ever seen. My patriotism wells up in my heart and eyes when I watch it. America's cream of the crop. The best of the best. The future officers who will have the lives of their men resting on their shoulders. And they're just kids.

I used to say to my son, "I would love for you to go to the Naval Academy some day." But I don't say that anymore. He would be forced to fight for a lie, not for our Constitution. Instead, we're teaching him about Ron Paul, The Revolution, spirituality, service to others, and how we WILL take our country back - one county at a time!

There's great advice in this thread. What does your conscience tell you is right?

Fortune Favors the Bold

one market where demand is high is in the field of nursing. If you can somehow get an LPN cert, which should take about two years at a community college, there will definelty be a joba available for you anywhere in the states.

Go into politics! If you want to see the world join the peace corps and then come back home with a peace message rather than a war message. The military messes up alot of young men.

People have got it wrong when they tell people to serve their country. The message should be serve your country by going into politics rather than the armed forces.

I would like to say to all the armed service men that I am eternally grateful for your service, I just think you've been sold a faulty bill of goods. You've sworn to uphold the constitution which our elected officials don't understand and can't defend. Today we need philosophers on the information battleground and in elected positions to defend our bill of rights. And for all you decommissioned soldiers please go into politics. There is no greater asset than being a veteran as no one who is politically correct will attack you.

i would just like to say that reading alot of these post makes me feel like shit. thanks for seemingly NOT supporting the sacrifices that we've made and not supporting the troops. ive risked my life and had friends give theirs only to be slandered. viet-frickin-nam all over again huh. obviously not on the same scale, not even close,but still getting spit on for doing our job. DONT HATE THE MILITARY OR ITS MEMBERS, HATE CONGRESS AND THE PEOPLE YOU'VE VOTED INTO OFFICE THAT MAKES THESE DECISIONS FOR US!!!

heres my take being that i am active duty navy seabee....i really loath the government at this point in my life and i feel like a hypocrite being part of their schemes..with that said, ive seriously contemplated getting out when this tour is over but with the economy and the job markat the way it is it would be stupid for me to get out. this job gives me job security, financial stability and medical benefits for myself and my family that i wouldnt be able to afford to give up. i am completely against this war though ive done 2 tours in iraq (previous to knowing what i do now) and i will never go to iraq again,let alone iran. but given your age and predicament i wouldnt be totally against joining the military just to get things together. they have a 2 year program so you can see if its for you without making such a long commitment. i would highly suggest going that route. keep in mind you will have to request this program because recruiters will not tell you that it exsists. also you need to understand that a corpman works side by side with the seabees and marines, both of whom spend alot of time in the desert, not to say that there arent plenty of corpmen that are stationed elswhere, because there certainly are, just food for thought. i hope ive been able to help and if you need any more info or help im always around.

I sure as hell wouldn't want to join the army/marines right now...

I only believe in defensive wars.... and seeing what this one is like, knowing it is immoral, and seeing how poorly the government is treating the troops, I wouldn't want to have to be a part of that...

I would gladly fight for our country if it were for REAL defense (it'd be easier to do too if the country was as it should be).

But.... if I was going to join, or if there was a draft or something.... I'd want to join the air force probably... haha, and this is lame but, I think it'd be awesome to fly a plane (I don't even know if they all get to do that....).

And after airforce I'd chose the Navy...

God, I can't picture myself in the army... I'm so... skinny... I'd be a joke.

These are only 3 things anyone needs to consider when joining any military:

Do you trust your govt to tell you the truth?
Are you willing to kill people most of whom will not be enemy?
Do you trust that the military will not inject you with lethal "vaccines"?

If you answer no to any one of them do not join the military.

we need people on the inside. When I was in the usmc I spoke up when other marines thought it would have been ok to send us to fight Americans durring the LA riots. That is the front line of the revolution we need to have people in the millitary who understand the constitution and who we know will stop attacks on our own
people

No different than a typewriter...just a piece of equipment with a fancy funeral. The sh!t is about to hit the fan with Iran,and I promise you don't want to be sitting on a boat in the Persian gulf,There's a reason they call it the "Persian" gulf.
As one poster wrote " They ( Iran) have purchased superior tech from Russia,and China.
China has a new sub with a rubber type sonar absorbing tiles. It did surface within target range behind a US fleet in training.
Much of China's tech is improved upon from the super computer, and missile tech sold by Bill Clinton.

Now is NOT the time to join the service, don't be a fool.
Only if RP or Jesse Ventura were in office. Preferably both...

So I cannot tell you about the military. But I do know a little about nursing and education. A good nurse, LVN , LPN or RN can find work anywhere in the US. For very good money. Male pschyciatric nurses are in high demand, as are ICU and emergency room nurses. Take a 2 year course for a LVN at a junior college. The military will pay you while giving you training. Listen to Vet4Paul, he is giving you wise counsel.

I would rather roll in a wet cow pie.

Honestly...you cant pay me to go kill patriotic Iraqies in the name the American empire...

Fanstasy Unfledged-Please support local music.
www.myspace.com/realityis...

There are two types of people offering you the strongest advice to stay out:
Those who have never been in the service and those who served but had a bad experience.

Some food for thought:
1) Dr. Paul is a veteran, and has always supported the military.
2) Military contributors supported Ron Paul more than any other candidate for three straight quarters (so much for "brainwashing")
3) Servicemen tend to take the Constitution much more seriously than the average Birkenstock weenie.
4) Servicemen take foreign policy very seriously.
5) Servicemen are like everyone else in that each is his own person, with his own opinions; there is no political consensus in the military.

Those things said, I would hesitate to encourage my own son to join, mainly due to the neo-cons in the current administration. That can change. The Army has been good to me, other than the two deployments for nation building missions (Bosnia and Iraq). I'm going back to Iraq soon, and I will do my job, but that doesn't mean I support the war. Only a moron would associate being in the military with supporting preemptive war. I support Constitutional national defense. There is nothing wrong with that, although you will find plenty of hacky-sack-pseudo-intellectuals who would disagree.

I have two graduate degrees that the Army paid for, and so I am an indentured servant, more or less. That’s the exchange. Nothing is free, but I made an informed decision long ago to join, and I do not regret it, overall. My most significant contribution in Iraq was getting about 1,600 Iraqis out of detention and returned to their homes. My hope in Iraq is for us to leave quickly. Whether you join or abstain won’t affect the outcome, and if you join you won’t be committing a crime. I would advise you to look very seriously at specialty choices. Don’t join the Infantry unless you want to fight. There are a lot of combat support roles that are less likely to put you in a position to kill someone, if that is your concern. Being a Navy corpsman will most likely NOT put you in a position to kill someone (except perhaps through malpractice…)

Treat recruiters like used car salesmen, get anything you are promised in writing, and remember that you never surrender your free will. As for those who say “Why would you go to a war you disagree with?” I would ask: “Why do you pay your income taxes that fund it?”

I did the USMC for 4 years and I'm now in my 2nd year in the Army National Guard. Instead of learning how to manage your own life, you become dependent on the military and its benefits.

I agree with the poster that said, "The best idea for you would be to sell everything you own and travel." I would encourage you to meet people from other countries all over the world. You need to meet people from the Middle East, from China, and other countries and learn to respect them as fellow human beings.

The military will teach you that killing people is the only viable option. They will tell you that this person is a terrorists, or a communists, or a Nazis or whatever the mode or fashion of the time is. You need to understand that you will not get to pick your enemies or the people that you kill. All you can do is hope that they deserved it.

Don't let anyone try to sugarcoat the true purpose of the military...and that is to kill people. I have decided that killing people in the name of peace and justice is something that is very, very, difficult for me. I have found my purpose in life and that is to farm and live a peaceful life with my wife and family.

I would recommend you read:
"Johnny got his Gun" by Trumbo
and
"Walden" by Thoreau

I would also recommend you visit the VA for a day and shadow a veteran. This experience will show you the type of care that you can receive and the way the military treats its veterans.

My best advice for you is to search your conscience, think LONG and HARD about this decision and don't go into it lightly. Don't go into this decision like a fool or a desperate man because these are the types of personalities that the military preys upon.

You have to make your own decisions...but at least take this piece of information to heart before signing anything.

If you sign on the dotted line...they will own you. They can promise you'll be in Decatur, IL making recruitment videos...but once you join, you are their property until they say otherwise. They are legally within their right to have you clearing mines in the Persian Gulf armed with a pitching wedge and a snorkel if they want. You can sign for 2-3 years...but they can stop loss, they can put you in reserves, and recall you whenever they like. You will belong to them until they say otherwise.

Join the armed forces if it's your path, but just do so with eyes wide open.

One option i'd like to suggest (depending on where you live) is the Coast Guard. You get a lot of the benefits of the other branches, but you're really not in much danger, there isn't the brainwashing involved in the other branches, and you are truly protecting our freedoms, because you'll be defending the homeland.

Given...it will be boring work, but people i've known who've joined have no regrets...I cannot say the same for any other armed forces. I've never joined myself as I have a real problem with authority.

i've been out of the army just short of 2 years after serving nearly 3. of course i only joined for 2 years, but wasn't aware of stop-loss at the time.

are you aware that as a corpsman it's possible you'd end up being a marine medic? i know the recruiters will tell you differently, but trust me it's a possibility. that means you'll find your ass in Iraq or Afghanistan going on patrols just like everyone else.

and even if you only serve on a ship you can still get killed. Iran has the capabilities to take out carriers. China and Russia has sold very effective cruise missiles to Iran that can elude carrier battle group defenses. in November of last year a Chinese sub surfaced within visual range of an aircraft carrier during war games. you'll find out real quick our expensive equipment is crap. they make it look real cool on the History and Military channel, but it can easily be taken out by an rpg that cost next to nothing.

i served as a tanker. depleted uranium armor is some of the hardest metal known. in Iraq they now have a weapon that goes right through the tank like it's not even there. you don't hear that on tv, but trust me it exist. i talk to guys serving in Iraq right now and they are being hit with this thing in increasing fashion. all our vehicles are obsolete.

DO NOT JOIN.

not even the reserves

'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'

do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

of a warless world will be the ones who refuse military service..
-Albert Einstein.

There are other options Badfish. You just have to look around.

My brother worked on nuclear reactors in the navy for 9 years. He kept me from going into the Airforce after my father died. I was where you are at one point thinking that it's all I have. Keep looking. =]

My cousin was a Lt. in the Air Force and they were offering money for people to leave. The Air Force is downsizing. I tried to get into the Navy but knee surgery years ago ruined that chance. Three of my uncles served in the Navy and loved it. I would strongly recommend the Navy, also take advantage of the benifits, you can get a college education while serving for free and get money from the GI bill for school after you leave. Research all branches and see which one you feel you can excel in.

lol ... USN Never Again ... Been there done that.
It was an okay way to kill time but just be aware of that being just what you are doing ... kiling time.
You will get out older, noone will care where you have been or what you have done during the time, and you will never get to ask for the years back.
That being said ... it is something to do and everyone has to do something.
I would just be careful in making certain that I didnt wind up in some dangerous post protecting Haliburtons plunder-of-the-week.