Why a 3rd Party or Independent Run Will Not Work!

I am committed to fighting for our ideas within the Republican party, so there will be no third party run. I do not denigrate third parties -- just the opposite, and I have long worked to remove the ballot-access restrictions on them. But I am a Republican, and I will remain a Republican. [RON PAUL]

The purpose of centralization of any organization is control.
Control is centralized so that a relatively few well-placed people can effect the organization on a wide scale.

Now, understanding this, we can use it.
It's easy for us to see how the adversaries have used centralization, but for some reason it is hard for us to see how to use it. They have shown us the model. They have attained control over large segments of the voters via a relatively few number of key positions in the party hierarchy, which allowed their agenda to be put into play.
This is both the strength AND the weakness of centralization.
It can be easy to take power, but vulnerable to losing it in the same way.

Most of the major party voters are "sheeple" who go along with the "party identification" and will vote along with what the party says. We don't have to reach ALL of these people, which would require too much resource allocation to even try.
What we need to do, is use the centralized structure that the adversary has created, against him. Put our people into the grassroots structure in local, county, state, and federal positions. Get voted into precinct leaders, and organizational committees, and commitee leadership positions. Attain control over the legs of the spider, cripple it, and work our way in to the center..
This is done with FAR fewer people and FAR less effort overall than trying to educate every Joe-Bob and Sally-Ann in the entire country. It is actually MUCH LESS ambitious of an effort than trying to get 1/2 of the people in the country individually motivated to vote for your candidate. Then, when we get control, we'll have our people already in all the slots to keep control. And Joe-Bob and Sally-Ann will just vote Republican like they always did, and we will provide them with the liberty that was guaranteed them by the Constitution, and they will be ecstatic.

We have limited, but pretty numerous, resources and people. We don't have a major media machine(although we've used the internet very well), but we have some savvy volunteers who are willing to get their boots on and hit the ground.
We can use this ability and resources with laser-like focus to take these positions of control on the ground, where it counts. We then make impacts with committee people and policy votes, and organizational strategies that then favor our message.
We've already done some of this with good effect at the state conventions, and this is where we are doing alot of good. It needs to be seen how well we've penetrated there, and do alot more of it. We can be where Bob Beers(for example) is, and we can make the rules, instead of being marginalized.

We do it by intelligently using the structure that the current parasite climbed into power on.
C'mon people! We see the ladder. It's there. There are quantifiable rungs that can be climbed. And it's a helluva lot easier to use the ladder than to climb the sheer cliff face without a rope.

Think about it.

hits the streets everyone will become a member of the OYO party (on your own party).

GOP CA Gov, Schwartzenegger told the CA GOP (which is $3 million in debt and so corrupt in the "red" zones of the state, the GOP most definately has a MEGA problem here where 28% of voters registered DECLINE TO STATE PARTY), that if they did not open the primary ballot to Independent voters the CA GOP would die. The Democrats have over 50% registration, and the American Independent, Libertarian and Green Party have a combined total of more than the GOP. Meanwhile the CA Ron Paul rEVOlution had a majority wanting to go Independent because CA has so many issues Ron Paul going Indy could have done what Abraham Lincoln did...and that's what he should have done. Instead of being a "body/party snatcher".

Also, I volunteered for Nader's campaigns because an Independent has the right to be on the ballot...of course Nader never had a chance in hates...but the work he was doing, working on campaign corruption and ballot access, (he sees voters as consumers of bought elections)..Ron Paul could have absolutely gotten ballot access because we have the majority of Democrats who would sign thinking it would SPOIL the GOP (and it would).

I think we all know that it doesn't matter if Ron Paul is a Republican, Libertarian, Indy, new Third Party...we're all going to vote for him because his message is what we all believe is what the US needs.

I think I should also say, that is was unfair to send a bunch of newbys into the lions den to fight for a party that is imploding because the NWO does not want or need more than one party to represent the North American Union at the UN.

1. If a third party candidate has 20% of the voters. He has tremendous power. That 20% could sway almost every seat in Congress.

2. It's becoming more and more obvious that the Bush administration is corrupt. In recent books, it's fairly obvious that Bushdid deceive the public. He is already below Nixon and will probably go lower as loyalist wake up to reality. If McCain isn't careful he could be the one having a hard time getting 20%.

3. Republicans either need to adopt a small government policy or they may just implode. I am suggesting at our local county level to adopt a policy to not accept Federal money for programs with schools and law enforcement for example. If the Republican party is going to survive they are going to have to do what is best for local people. And the first is getting rid of obligations to meet Federal mandates that destroy our communities and small businesses.

Mike
"Fire Team for Freedom" on revolutionbroadcasting.com
Mondays thru Thursdays Midnight EST
or visit www.mikeandjake.com

Scare a few people with a new UBL tape- just enough to stink up some pro-McCain support in a few blogs and make the padded pro-McCain MSM polls seem plausible. Then have Diebold rig the election for McCain. So while the machine trudges on four more years, the people accept it and focus their anger on the sheep who didnt really win the election for McCain - but posted just enough "im scared of the terrorists" crap to make it appear possible that such a peice of crap like McCain could actually win the election (or worse- allow it to appear that all white people- regardless of whether or not they SAY they want Obama to win were closet bigots and in the end voted for the white guy) . Vote Ron Paul, be a delegate, affect change through party planks- but just know- the same guys that got Bush elected (Diebold) will get McCain elected.

Perhaps with Jesse as vp (or not) then many people voted in the primary AGAINST a democrat. Those people would come back to us if they don't go McCain. Many people who voted for other than McCain early on have a strong possibility of coming to us. Some McCain people will wake up and move over to us. IF people see a VIABLE possibility for a WIN, then they will vote for us. It would take a great, great deal of enthusiasm from Dr. Paul. He would have to put his whole self in with enthusiasm and stoke the fire. It would be a fight, but that is what we are all about. It would be intense, but it is worth it. He might be giving up his congressional seat, but I don't think that means he would give up his livelihood in the event he did not win. His books and speaking engagements would probably pay him more. Plus he would be free to say whatever he needed to. He surely must hold back somewhat now.

Is it possible to run totally independently and get on the ballot in all states?

We would have to insist on paper ballots in all 50 states.

The reason is simple math! We do not have the numbers to take over the republican party because that was proven throughout the primaries, maybe someday but not anytime soon. Now...if we all decide to vote for lets just say someone like Bob Barr for example purposes only, (or if there was a chance of RP still changing his mind and running as a third party candidate, which I realize is wishful thinking) Here is the math:
We would get all of those liberatarion voters and all of us RP republican voters, convince some new voters that are not happy with the 2 main candidates who say voted for (Romney, Thompson, Gravel, Kuchinich, Edwards, ect..). Also there are A LOT of voters in early states including Super Tuesday states that have opened there eyes to RP's message since then. So...lets say that takes us to 25% of the vote. I also know of a lot of very strong christians who were Huckabee supporters who still refuse to vote for McCain and will raly around say Chuck Baldwin because he is a preacher and they would think he is God's choice.... so he gets 7% of the vote. Then you have Ralph Nadar who will steal a lot of votes away from Obama, there are a lot of Clinton supporters who will refuse to vote for Obama, and (unfortunetly racist people in this country still exist everywhere, but lets face it) there are still several Dems who will not vote for a black president...so Nadar gets 18%. Then there are the other 3rd party candidates who will appear because of all the hype around this years presidency plus the write-in's.......so they all get 5%. Then lets say Obama gets 23% and McCain gets 22% of the vote.
Voting third party would breakdown the votes. We could never do this in the past because there was never a man like Ron Paul who opened so many minds and given so many Americans hope. Even though I realize that someone like Bob Barr is not our #1 choice at least it would prove to the country that we can take this country back from the coruption of the 2 main parties! This is not about taking our "Party" back, it is about taking our Country back!!!

Call me dense, but I do not understand "the Math".

And I'm not here to play smashmouth football on it, I just really do not understand your theory. You are saying that:

(a) We lack the numbers to get a major Third Party developed well;

and

(b) We lack the numbers to get Ron Paul nominated;

Thus,

(c) Our logical course of action is to take over the GOP from within. (?)

How can we do that if we don't have the numbers? To take over the GOP from within, don't we have to not only "have the numbers", but also power, wealth, and influence?

What am I not seeing? It looks like you are choosing the hardest of all possible objectives, and justifying it using our weak numbers.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

That is my dream team. The GOP is just the other wing of the same bird.
48% of voters are sick of the same old crap.There is a shadow of fear creeping over the Nation.
Ventura's celebrity,and candidness along with RP's Constitutional and economical sensibility,would make history.
Both of their service as Veterans( one making the mess the other cleaning it up) would provide a sane foreign policy.
Barr and respectfully Baldwin would have to step aside and support.
I'd like to think that the MSM couldn't contain the story,and would have to cover it.
RP is close to retirement,and I think should go for the brass ring,all the marbles. OK,,,dream time over

and I agree that it is most likely the best way to go at this juncture.

However don't dismiss the idea of getting a third party going.

There are TONS of folks Dems and Republicans alike who hate both parties. The problem is we've got a political cold war in this country. There are plenty of Democrats that dislike 90% of what their party does, but absolutely LOATHE the republicans (my father is one of them)... As to Republicans of a similar disposition... there are quite a few of them out there (probably one or two on this forum in fact *wink wink*). Both sides have plenty of folks who hate their party, but they HATE the other party just a little bit more. They all fear 'the other guy' and so they all toe the party line. These are the people who call third party candidates 'spoilers.' These are the people who maintain the status quo. And These, are the people we have to reach out to them if we want to win.

The only way to make a third party candidacy viable is to:
A) find a candidate that attracts folks from both sides. (We've got one)
B) convince the disaffected voters on both sides that D's and R's are switching sides. In essence we need to convince the folks our our guy's not a 'spoiler.'

If a third party started to take off you could bet your boots that more would jump ship.

divide and conquer is the NWO motto.
------------------------------------------------
"RON PAUL SUPPORTER SINCE 1997"
RON PAUL 2008 / RE-ELECT 2012

You hear it year after year, a third party can't win, but if everyone would back one candidate like they did Ron Paul they could win. This year especially because McCain is so bad. But what we end up doing is dividing just like they want us to on issues - like we have been on Barr - when the reality is that this guy has the best chance since Ross Perot -even if he is not perfect he is way better than what you are going to get with McCain or Obama - that is a no brainer.

While Purist here on the DP may not like a non pure candidate like Barr, lots and lots and lots of Republicans do, and of course we will shoot ourselves in the foot again and get McCain or Obama because we are so ideologically stuck on ourselves. They are slowly taking our gun rights away little by little, and thats what we need to do with our candidates - present them with people and elect people that will give us our rights back little by little

But lets say someone like Barr does get 20% which is very possible - that would so weaken the Republican Party it would be that much easier to take over, and on top of that the Libertarian Party would receive Major Party status that would make the Republican and Democrats have to listen. The would get all the perks that the GOP and DEMs get. allowing for Ballot Access, money, debate, media attention and the like - it would be the best of both worlds

We're here to win, not to lose gracefully. It will only happen by taking back the Republican Party.

Ron Paul has been doing this for 30 years, he knows what hes doing.
We wasted $50,000 in NH recount against Ron Paul's advice, it was epic fail.
If Ron Paul had run as independent, it would have been epic fail as well.
So ignore the supporters, trust the man!

Get Ron Paul nominated. If you can do it, I support "taking them over".

If Ron Paul does not get nominated, we aren't going to be taking over the Neo-con/Rockefeller/CFR party...be realistic in that case.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

I'm not going to let those Rockefeller types kick me out of the party! The establishment can kiss my *ss.

"Politics is the art of preventing people from taking part in affairs which properly concern them"
Paul Valery

will not work -
PROTEST VOTES!