One problem with only gold and silver as money.

The OP is correct in some of his concerns. The way the big bankers (Morgan, Rockefeller, etc.) got the federal reserve act passed was by controlling a large portion of the currency, and withholding it from circulation to intentionally depress the economy, causing rushes on the smaller banks. Yes, they took some short term losses by withholding their currency, but they did it for a reason. The ensuing panics set the American people (and their representatives) up to readily accept a currency "reform" which would make their deposits "safer" and ensure that we would never have a shortage of currency again. It was really a brilliant and completely despicable power play on the part of the big bankers, and they have controlled our currency, and thus our country, ever since.

If we ever do get back to a commodity backed currency, we'll have to have some preventative measures to keep the elite from making the same power play all over again. But that's very far removed from out current situation, and would be a problem I would be happy to have compared to our current situation.

True years and years ago having an agreed upon item for use as money was a great way for trading, probably still is today. But it isn't the only way. Let's look to the Middle East for example, today of course it isn't fair that countries who produce petroleum should have to accept dollars for their product but changing the situation to demand that only gold or silver can be used for trade is just as bad. Sure those owning mining companies will make a fortune, and those who have managed to save gold and silver over the years will have an advantage, but why should they be the only ones. Why can't trade for petroleum, in the case of the United States be in another product, for example corn. There would be no need to convert the corn into gold to buy petroleum and no need to convert petroleum into gold to buy corn. A country like Denmark where gold is probably difficult to mine for, could trade directly for petroleum for milk or dairy products. Trade can be direct and cut out the middleman, eliminating altogether the necessity for much of the financial market. This would be true free market and not some perverted free market.

I don't see returning to the gold standard and still keeping the federal reserver or its notes. The new "dollar" should be backed by silver/gold and you can have laws as such that no dollar's can be redeemed outside of USA. The currency is fixed. Regarding your current debt. You still owe it in federal reserve notes. Which would be worth jack compared to the new dollar which is backed. Key is gold/ silver can not leave the US.

You don't understand money. People cannot "hoard" gold and silver when it is used as money. If they did, how would they live? Do people hoard federal reserve notes now? Of course not.

Land has value. Should we worry that there is only so much land, and people with money are going to buy up all the land? There are other things than land. What good is the land going to do them, when all of their wealth is in land? It's like the old King Midas story.

Gold is money, but what good is money if you don't spend any of it? Gold and silve have value, but so does almost everything else. In any economy, to live, we need to trade; to convert one form of wealth into another that we desire more. That's why we convert dollars into food, gasoline & c. Gold and silver would function exactly like federal reserve notes do in purchasing what we want. The difference is, gold and silve do not inflate. Gold and silver do not increase the national debt, as do federal reserve notes. And, redeemable paper notes could be used for day to day transaction just as gold certificates and silver certificates once were.

Why does savings have to be only in money such as FRNs, gold and silver, can't storing food be considered savings, can't planting trees on your property be considered savings, why are only those things the government declares as money considered savings.
As for the government paying it's debt, why can't it be paid with the fruit from the land owned by the government in the form of National Parks, how much gold is in the National Parks, in Alaska, not to mention how much oil. Why isn't the national debt paid off with these resources, why do they need to come after us to pay the debt.

I was talking about the government taking land. She said something that stuck out at me when she said it. Why would the government want to have a bunch of land they would then have to pay taxes on it. Immediatly it came to my mind "Flat tax". This is why they now want the flat tax once they start buying the land they will make property tax part of the flat tax (since all money for schools and such are comeing from the federal government) so they won't have to pay property tax thus they will be able to buy this country from shore to shore. They will be the only ones to be able to own land. We will be back to sufdom. They will buy this country.

of what they earn. In Japan they save 40% and in India 30%.
In the US the savings rate is minus 1%.
In addition we borrow 2-3 Billion a day from China and Japan and we are now so deeply in debt that if you took all the money from every country in the world there still would not be enough to pay the debt we owe.

hoarding was called savings.

Savings accounts should be closed then.

___________

Lisa C.

http://www.women4ronpaul....

"Most of the important things in the world have been accomplished by people who have kept on trying when there seemed to be no hope at all."

-Dale Carnegie

I know a lot of people want us to jump up and down, cheer for the Constitution and fight to have gold return as our money. But shouldn't we have the right to ask questions? There are some serious flaws with the original Constitution, especially the part that requires us to pay them taxes and pay their debt. Many who fought in the Revolutionary War fought this plan, so why should we blindly accept it. Look up Daniel Shays and Job Shattuck, they weren't afraid to fight for freedom but they certainly didn't support the creation of a constitution which established a government and required that they pay the government in gold.

I wrote my original post in a rush, I have valid questions, so educate me, what's the problem. Isn't this what a forum is all about, sharing ideas? I think having to pay taxes in the first place is wrong, I should be able to have Allodial title to my land, so that I could be free, but I don't, and it isn't really legally possible. I have land, and I want to be an honest man, the government is corrupt and the Constitution as it is today protects them and the Constitution as it was written protected the interest of the bankers and debt by the government to them was guarenteed.

You already have a thread going with this same rather nonsensical post. My answer and questions again...

Huh?
On June 6th, 2008 melgesman says:

I don't follow...Taxes and mortgages are payable in FRN''s which will be in effect...until they aren't.

Central banks hold FRN's (don't worry there are plenty of them) for international transactions, specifically oil purchases and "hoarding" is hardly an issue with an incredibly and constantly inflated FRN. Just wait...they'll print more...

Then you said:
"Then, once the bank forecloses on my property or the government takes it for back taxes, those hoarding the money (bankers) come in and buy my property at a discount. Seems that there should be a way for me to pay my debt to the government or my mortgage without having to use gold or silver (or FRDs)."

Huh? Foreclosure would come from non-payment of FRN's for either back taxes (usually a long term foreclosure), or mortgage default (quick foreclosure). Either which way what does it matter who buys what for what? You are the one who placed yourself on the tracks and directly in front of the train. Who twisted your arm?

Then you said:
"Returning to money backed by gold and silver sounds like a good idea, but it won't change the situation if banks or others hoard gold backed dollars, and how long will it take for China and other countries to have all our privately owned gold in their reserves."

Double huh? You've lost me here as I am completely oblivious as to what you are talking about...

And you added:
"Because of human nature, the restriction to use only gold or silver as payment of debt doesn't seem fair, since not everyone has access to markets or a gold mine."

Again...what are you talking about? If debt's were paid in Gold and Silver...then debts would be paid in Gold and Silver...including your paycheck. In other words...Gold and Silver are money and nothing else is...Hoarding of Gold and Silver under such a paradigm has another name...it's called savings! And these are savings that stay safe from the ravages of theft through inflation!

You then postulated:
"Unjust men have used this scheme to get property away from people, this is perhaps why the government, corporations and bankers own most of the property in our country."

While you are on the right track, you're a bit mixed up as it is the use of Fiat currency...first through massive printing and availabvility of easy money via easy credit...followed by the winding in of the money supply through reduced credit availability...that has been used to force downturns in the economy thereby crushing marginally profitable businesses and running them into bankruptcy. It has also worked quite well against individuals who succumb to the lure of easy credit and is truly the reason that so much property is in the hands of so few.

Finally you asked:
"Is this what Thomas Jefferson warned against when he said first by inflation then by deflation the bankers would take our property? Without the right to pay our debt we lose our property and without the right to property, there is no freedom."

Hmmm. I'm thoroughly baffled as to what you are talking about on the on the "right to pay debt" thing...as to the quote, Jefferson was talking about the fiat currency, printed from thin air, and issued by the banks...not Gold and Silver.

**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **

just exchange the gold or silver for whatever the government uses as legal tender... just like you do today with FRN's ... why is this so complicated for some people to wrap their minds around? GOLD AND SILVER BOUGHT TODAY WILL BE WORTH MOR FRN'S in the future..! so when you go to exchange them if the government does not accept gold and silver you will get MORE frn's in return! GOLD AND SILVER IS MONEY... always has been ALWAYS! will be! if the elite or the crooks don't want you to have something you better be buying all you can because it goes against there system!

as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD

Gold and silver were money in the United States for most of our history, until 1933 and beyond (silver coins were minted and circulated until 1964).

The U.S. became the wealthiest nation on Earth with gold and silver as money, and we had the highest level of income mobility, as well -- meaning the poor here had the best chance of anyplace to move into the middle and even upper classes.

The only "problem" with gold and silver as money is for the parasites who own the federal reserve and for the government itself, along with its favored corporations and classes -- who benefit from the constant creation of new money-from-nothing because without that monetary inflation, the wars, bureacratic empires, and other wealth spigots would be shut off -- and the people THEMSELVES would have the use of the money they earn.

That is a big problem -- but not for you or me.

It is why I own guns. Stealing items then selling them then paying their taxes. This problem will grow rapidly if the economy crashes. Its the uglier side of the problem.

But you'll never establish a barter system with a government for taxes due. As cruel as it is, if no one is willing to trade FRN's or gold/silver coinage for your product, you need to find another revenue source.

What you've described with people hoarding cash is a deflationary depression... everyone is holding money and commerce ceases. If holders of dollars around the world sent them home so you could pay taxes and create a market, you'd be swamped by a bout of hyperinflation... you'd be up to your knees in FRN's to pay taxes with, but the problem is the dollars would be so worthless, you wouldn't be able to buy anything in the market.

Barter societies always have evolved into a monetary based system of exchange because it is the most efficient. Hoarders are not the norm. Even someone who hoards needs to purchase basic needs, capital to produce his goods, whatever. That puts money back into circulation. If a town banker was purposefully withholding currency to purchase up the town's property, he may well find himself dancing on the end of a rope. It is in everyone's best interest that markets continue to operate.

Trade your goods/service for an item, sell that item for FRN's and pay your taxes => Utilize barter to obtain the FRN's. That's all I can think of to help you.

I can't imagine the authors of the Constitution intentionally making a document to enslave us, but it unfortunately has.
grant

one ends the other is forever.

I guess your right this would be indentured survatude, but since we are always required to pay taxes on our land, we will always be in some kind of slavery whether it be in the form of money or service.

double post

why indentured servatude was done in the old testament. It wasn't slavery to be mean it was used to give people a way to pay there debt off and not lose everything they had. At the end of the time agreed for satisfaction of the dept owed the person was freed with all there posetions in tact. Actually it was more humane than what we have today.