Stop saying the word Liberty!
Posted June 9th, 2008 by FreeManOnLand
output
Liberty: lib·er·ty –noun, plural -ties.
- permission granted to a sailor, esp. in the navy, to go ashore.
This is the oldest definition of liberty and thus is the root for our modern day meaning of the word. The implications of this definition are astounding considering our country is ran on preservation of "liberty". Thus Liberty is us asking for permission...
The statue of Liberty is located on water...
I'm sure many of you have heard of maritime law and how it applies to Sovereign Individuals in our country and around the world.
Many of you might think i'm trying to stir the shit, but, I am not. I'm simply suggesting that we all open up our eyes a little more and start questioning EVERYTHING around us, the byproduct is that we will learn something at the very least.
Maybe we should make direct references to freedom.
Freedom: free·dom -noun
- exemption from external control, interference, regulation, etc.
- the power to determine action without restraint.
- the absence of or release from ties, obligations, etc.
- the right to enjoy all the privileges or special rights of citizenship, membership, etc., in a community or the like.
- the power to exercise choice and make decisions without constraint from within or without; autonomy; self-determination.**
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Bump.
;-)
Something you should keep in
Something you should keep in mind FreeManOnLand, is that a dictionary or lexicon is the lexicographer's attempt to define a word. While definitions appear in lexicons, it doesn't mean the definition is or was at that time definitive. To truly learn the full meaning of a word one must study the context under which a word was used at that time and not from a historical perspective looking backwards.
From Noah Webster's 1828 Dictionary.
http://1828.mshaffer.com/...
liberty
LIB'ERTY, n. [L. libertas, from liber, free.]
1. Freedom from restraint, in a general sense, and applicable to the body, or to the will or mind. The body is at liberty, when not confined; the will or mind is at liberty, when not checked or controlled. A man enjoys liberty, when no physical force operates to restrain his actions or volitions.
2. Natural liberty, consists in the power of acting as one thinks fit, without any restraint or control, except from the laws of nature. It is a state of exemption from the control of others, and from positive laws and the institutions of social life. This liberty is abridged by the establishment of government.
3. Civil liberty, is the liberty of men in a state of society, or natural liberty, so far only abridged and restrained, as is necessary and expedient for the safety and interest of the society, state or nation. A restraint of natural liberty, not necessary or expedient for the public, is tyranny or oppression. civil liberty is an exemption from the arbitrary will of others, which exemption is secured by established laws, which restrain every man from injuring or controlling another. Hence the restraints of law are essential to civil liberty.
The liberty of one depends not so much on the removal of all restraint from him, as on the due restraint upon the liberty of others.
In this sentence, the latter word liberty denotes natural liberty.
4. Political liberty, is sometimes used as synonymous with civil liberty. But it more properly designates the liberty of a nation, the freedom of a nation or state from all unjust abridgment of its rights and independence by another nation. Hence we often speak of the political liberties of Europe, or the nations of Europe.
5. Religious liberty, is the free right of adopting and enjoying opinions on religious subjects, and of worshiping the Supreme Being according to the dictates of conscience, without external control.
6. Liberty, in metaphysics, as opposed to necessity, is the power of an agent to do or forbear any particular action, according to the determination or thought of the mind, by which either is preferred to the other.
Freedom of the will; exemption from compulsion or restraint in willing or volition.
7. Privilege; exemption; immunity enjoyed by prescription or by grant; with a plural. Thus we speak of the liberties of the commercial cities of Europe.
8. Leave; permission granted. The witness obtained liberty to leave the court.
9. A space in which one is permitted to pass without restraint, and beyond which he may not lawfully pass; with a plural; as the liberties of a prison.
10. Freedom of action or speech beyond the ordinary bounds of civility or decorum. Females should repel all improper liberties.
To take the liberty to do or say any thing, to use freedom not specially granted.
To set at liberty, to deliver from confinement; to release from restraint.
To be at liberty, to be free from restraint.
Liberty of the press, is freedom from any restriction on the power to publish books; the free power of publishing what one pleases, subject only to punishment for abusing the privilege, or publishing what is mischievous to the public or injurious to individuals.
If you would like to learn more visit: http://teamlaw.org/
whew....
thanks for that....=)
This definition is taken
This definition is taken from Bouvier's Law Dictionary printed in 1856. In the 1820's Congress declared Bouvier's Law Dictionary the official dictionary of the Constitution for the United States of America. Not many have heard of it today...
LIBERTY. Freedom from restraint. The power of acting as one thinks fit,
without any restraint or control, except from the laws of nature.
2. Liberty is divided into civil, natural, personal, and political.
3. Civil liberty is the power to do whatever is permitted by the
constitution of the state and the laws of the land. It is no other than
natural liberty, so far restrained by human laws, and no further, operating
equally upon all the citizens, as is necessary and expedient for the general
advantage of the public. 1 Black. Com. 125; Paley's Mor. Phil. B. 6, c.5;
Swifts Syst. 12
4. That system of laws is alone calculated to maintain civil liberty,
which leaves the citizen entirely master of his own conduct, except in those
points in which the public good requires some direction and restraint. When a
man is restrained in his natural liberty by no municipal laws but those
which are requisite to prevent his violating the natural law, and to promote
the greatest moral and physical welfare of the community, he is legally
possessed of the fullest enjoyment of his civil rights of individual
liberty. But it must not be inferred that individuals are to judge for
themselves how far the law may justifiably restrict their individual
liberty; for it is necessary to the welfare of the commonwealth, that the
law should be obeyed; and thence is derived the legal maxim, that no man may
be wiser than the law.
5. Natural liberty is the right which nature gives to all mankind, of
disposing of their persons and property after the manner they judge most
consonant to their happiness, on condition of their acting within the limits
of the law of nature, and that they do not in any way abuse it to the
prejudice of other men. Burlamaqui, c. 3, s. 15; 1 Bl. Com. 125.
6. Personal liberty is the independence of our actions of all other
will than our own. Wolff, Ins. Nat. Sec. 77. It consists in the power of
locomotion, of changing situation, or removing one's person to whatever
place one's inclination may direct, without imprisonment or restraint,
unless by due course of law. 1 Bl. Com. 134.
7. Political liberty may be defined to be, the security by which, from
the constitution, form and nature of the established government, the
citizens enjoy civil liberty. No ideas or definitions are more
distinguishable than those of civil and political liberty, yet they are
generally confounded. 1 Bl. Com. 6, 125. The political liberty of a state is
based upon those fundamental laws which establish the distribution of
legislative and executive powers. The political liberty of a citizen is that
tranquillity of mind, which is the effect of an opinion that he is in
perfect security; and to insure this security, the government must be such
that one citizen shall not fear another.
8. In the English law, by liberty is meant a privilege held by grant or
prescription, by which some men enjoy greater benefits than ordinary
subjects. A liberty is also a territory, with some extraordinary privilege.
9. By liberty or liberties, is understood a part of a town or city, as
the Northern Liberties of the city of Philadelphia. The same as Fanbourg.
(q.v.)
Thank you.. =]
For clearing this up completely!
My pleasure. I hope it
My pleasure. I hope it helps.
http://teamlaw.org/
Your etymology is incorrect.
We did not get the word liberty from the term for shore leave, that came after the word liberty was already in use. We get the word liberty from the Latin libertas, but it is good to question things, including the questions themselves.
Free and Brave
or Cradle to Grave
You can't have both
I believe liberty and leave maybe seperate?
To take leave you must fill out a "chit" If I can recall? To go on liberty you don't, at least not that I'm aware of? The only thing I find interesting is the relationship with my previous Naval experience and the word liberty.
1) In either case leave or liberty, you simply had to respectfully request permission to go ashore. Liberty for the most part was measured in hours whereas leave was requested via "chit" too command for approval and was comprised of x number of days you were to be absent, hence the term (AWOL) "absent without leave" As a civilian, I say, give me liberty or give me death! :-P Go Ron >>>>>>>
What you believe too be true, is true too you...
I've got it..
If you are asserting that we are acting under maritime law, then again it would be coorect that we want liberty. Once we obtain liberty we then want freedom.
There is another interesting point regarding the phrase "Freeborn of lawful age..."
Freeborn meaning you are born a free man not subject to bondage or servitude...
This is interesting...
Maybe you we should correct Madison, Jefferson and Henry....
Hmm….I don’t think these the US Constitution or the Declaration of Independence that use the word "Liberty" had anything to do with guys getting leave from the ship. Just because the navy plays loosely with the definition does not change the sanctity of its meaning.
Both Madison and Jefferson had a very clear idea of the definition of "Liberty." You may want to read F. A. Hayek on Liberty and the Constitution to understand the definition of Liberty.
But Jefferson may be to blame for our ignorance when he penned these words:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." -Declaration of Independence
But then Madison was the chief architect of the U.S. Constitution who wrote the preamble to the supreme law of the land that was established to "secure the Blessing of Liberty"
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." -Preamble to the US Constitution
So I don't know what to do. Maybe we should correct these men and ask for a revision to these documents…..
This may have something to do with it
Liberty cannot be preserved without a general knowledge among the people, who have... a right, an indisputable, unalienable, indefeasible, divine right to that most dreaded and envied kind of knowledge, I mean the characters and conduct of their rulers. -John Adams
Among the natural rights of the colonists are these: first, a right to life; secondly, to liberty; thirdly to property; together with the right to support and defend them in the best manner they can. -Samuel Adams
By liberty I mean the assurance that every man shall be protected in doing what he believes is his duty against the influence of authority and majorities, custom and opinion. - Lord Action
Liberty is the prevention of control by others. This requires self-control and, therefore, religious and spiritual influences; education, knowledge, well-being. -Lord Action
The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. -Samuel Adams
When the government fears the people there is liberty; when the people fear the government there is tyranny.-Thomas Jefferson
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. -Thomas Jefferson
Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of Liberty abused to licentiousness. -George Washington
Liberty, when it begins to take root, is a plant of rapid growth. -George Washington
Heck, let's do it now:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, *permission to go ashore,* and the pursuit of Happiness." -Declaration of Independence, REVISED.
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of *permission to go ashore* to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." -Preamble to the US Constitution, REVISED
And just one more for the heckuvit:
"My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of *permission to go ashore,* of thee I sing."
I think the absurdity of the original post is now completely obvious.
What are you trying to say?
[Tannim] Would you please help me to understand you comment above?
Because when you are required by your duties to "request permission to go ashore" you are requesting permission to be allowed too participate in or partake in personal time separate from the USN in this case "Liberty" as it relates to the Navy. If stationed on land, this requirement is not normally required. So what are you attempting to explain? Regards...
What you believe too be true, is true too you...
SHIT is an acronym
hmm seems like since we are pecking apart words lets start with this one! SHIT it is not a word it is an acronym ! Just like scuba ! (SHIT means STORE HIGH IN TRANSIT) . As such this means not to carry manure below deck be cause the methane gas would build up below deck and become explosive.There fore they were stamped it with SHIT as a warning label!
http://unitetheparties.bl...
Yup.
And they would store it towards the stern, and the raised deck over the storage area became known as the poop deck.
For a better explanation, listen to the second half of Puke & Snot's "Sure would, Sherwood", off their album "Vowel Obstruction". (Google it, you'll find it.)
haha
I love you guys, If there is one thing this revolution has produced it is the Daily Paul. Good shite!!!!!
Good call FreeManOnLand
You are totally correct, unfortuneatly we are under "Admiralty Law" at least in Canada and I am sure the US is the same.
One quote I will mention from someone I know of when the Tax Man took him to court. The judge asked him to approach the bench and he replied, "No, I will not board your ship"! To make a long story short, he forced a "Common Law" court and WON! He, as a Natural-Person does not have to pay income tax!!!!
But I degress, language and words are VERY important because we live by Contracts and when a person (Natural or Corporate) enters into a contract the definitions as stated in the contract are what apply.
Very good point you made!
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"Don't make me come down there!" - God
In regards to the case where
In regards to the case where the guy said "No, I will not board your ship" - do you know if that is documented anywhere? Any case numbers, etc? I would like to look that one up.
Latin "libertas" from "liber" which meant "free".
My dictionary gives two definitions of liberty. The second definition is: "the power or scope to act as one pleases".
Under that there are three uses: Philosophical, Informal, Nautical.
I'm going to disagree with you. I believe the word "liberty" to be much older than you are claiming and has "free" at its root and original meaning. The nautical term came later and, while sailors needed permission to leave ship, they were "free" to do as they wished on shore.
The Statue of Liberty, if I'm not mistaken, is in direct view of Ellis Island and was a very timely placement considering her words and the millions of immigrants who saw her upon arriving in America:
Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"
If you want to believe some bureaucrat put her on that island to signify something "evil". That's your right.
You said to question everything.
Look up
Please see the above comment in regard to contract laws and definitions.
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"Don't make me come down there" - God
A rose will still smell the
A rose will still smell the same, even if it has a different name... or something like that.
Liberty or Freedom, really it makes no difference. As long as you know the ideals and values that these words represent.
Personally I prefer 'liberty' because every jerk0ff politician speaking these days is (ab)using the word 'freedom'.
actually this word first
actually this word first appeared in the 13th century
I've found its origin on a french webpage:
http://www.cnrtl.fr/etymo... (in french..)
on this page it says, the first meaning it had was: "power of self-determination without constraint"..
So it looks like we can still use it :}
Thats interesting, when us sailors would depart a ship,
We were instructed too "Respectfully request permission to go ashore" a related term was "hit the beach" :-) upon return "Respectfully request permission to come aboard" Hmmmm :-P
What you believe too be true, is true too you...
Interesting thought
English not being my first language I sometimes pondered about the difference between 'liberty' and 'freedom'. These words are apparently very often used synonymously in your language, though they obviously have different roots, one being romanic, like the French 'liberté' the other germanic like the German 'Freiheit'. I don't know, how the French understand 'liberté', but being German I understand 'Freiheit' exactly the way as you define 'freedom'. It's nothing granted to me by some worldly authority, but given as a birthright.
I don't know about the maritime law, but there seems to be something in your concept.
Dr. Paul cured my apathy
RP Uses It
if it's good enough for him.....
Actually,
Liberty
The Latin words "Liber," "Libera," and "Liberum" -- with a Long I -- came from the root meaning, "to pour." From this, we get the word "Liberty" (hence pronounced with a short I), from the freedom we feel when we get drunk.
www.westegg.com/etymology
Yes, true.
But under Maritime Law(the law of most/all countries with central banks) the word Liberty is defined as the definition mentioned above.
Maritime Law...
I would just like to mention that in my home country here in Canada, where I live in Windsor Ontario, we have a military armory that is known as the H.M.C.S Hunter Building.
H.M.C.S stands for Her Majesties Canadian Ship.
This military building of ours which the Queen of England considers to be a ship for some reason also has a Masonic Temple almost attached to it next door.
Just some information that I feel that is relative to your point of view.
Gotta love it
Lawyers use the title esquire which is a British title just below Knight. Look how many of our politician have been Knight by the Queen Mum.
Americans having received Britain's top honor include Nobel prize-winning scientist James Watson, George Bush Senior, former Mayor of New York Rudolph Giuliani, and Hollywood director Steven Spielberg.
General Wesley K. Clark
Bob Hope
Norman Schwarzkopf
Ronald Reagan
Alan Greenspan
Bill Gates
IBM's Lou Gerstner
Hope earned it.
But so did one guy you didn't mention, which is Eisenhower (before he became President).
I read that this
is against our law. Not for citizens, but for politicians.
Interesting
I think there is something to be said for how maritime laws are affecting us. The way birth certificates are worded,the gold fringe on US flags in courtrooms, the SS number.etc. I am far from an expert on this subject,but you can see a connection.
------------------
"My role in the revolution is to wake up the lemmings of this country, who sit back and accept the pablum the media feeds them"
Jesse Ventura
Ventura/Paul 2008
http://www.gopetition.com...
And something that probably ties in
Is the new Sea Treaty which is giving the UN jurisdiction over our waters.