Any truthers out there. By Rhino

Dr. Paul has stated numerous times that he only wants a real investigation into what happened. That's the bottom line for me and I believe we need to get over it. There are other sites you can go to to discuss these types of things.

Nice try 'rhino'.....

Questions 2 and 3 are more loaded than my brother-in-law at the family reunion.... It WAS an inside job, and I have a question or two for you.

What happened to building 7?
http://www.whatreallyhapp...
If there's nothing to hide, why won't the govt release all the 'classified' documents, Pentagon videos, and 'black box' data that was recovered?

Were explosives used to bring down the towers? Watch this video:
http://www.911revisited.c...

"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN
http://www.myspace.com/do...

is I was pretty much on board with what the news was reporting on 9/11 while I watched the live coverage of the smouldering planes stuck in the towers. Then one of the towers fell, and the news reporters were saying the jet fuel fires melted the structural steel. I knew that couldn't be right because it went against everything I'd been taught about metallurgy, and besides, the footage looked so much like a controlled demolition to me.

If someone can design a reproducible laboratory experiment in which a jet fuel fire melts or even weakens the type of structural steel used in the construction of the twin towers within an hour and a half of exposure, I will accept those results and concede that is what happened.

The 9/11 Commission Report reminds me of the Warren Commission Report (JFK assassination).
Both "investigations" done by the government to hide things.
I have no doubt we have not been told the truth.

And in a few years, like for the JFK case, people who are directly implicated will start talking, more independent investigations will be done and the huge majority of americans will not buy that official version anymore.

Look at the official version for the JFK assassination. 75% of americans don't believe it.

There are crooks in Washington far more dangerous than those terrorists abroad. That's why we need honest people like Ron Paul who works in the only interests of the people.

1. I don't know. Planes hit the WTC's... I know that. Something hit the Pentagon... I know that. Something crashed in a field in PA... I know that.

People died needlessly. I know that.

Other than that, I know nothing other than what I've been told by our government. The same government that has proven time and time again it cannot be trusted to tell us the truth. The same government that put very little money or time into the investigation... of itself.

2. Can't provide proof if I don't know what happened.

3. Sure, I would be willing to concede if there was absolute truth, but unfortunately... there isn't. The government's version is no more believable than half of the theories.

So, the first thing we need to realize is that the government should not have done the investigation on itself. Outside scientists, journalists and other experts should have participated in the investigation... maybe even experts from other countries. Then we might get at the truth.

See, everyone wants to make fun of the "Truthers" for their theories, but no one is actually doing an independent, outside investigation in order to find out the truth... so we have to speculate. Especially since the government hasn't even offered an explanation of Building 7... at all.

All we want is a REAL investigation... not another government whitewash... in order to find out the real truth behind what happened. Is that too much to ask?

Until then, we'll continue to speculate and ask questions. It's the only prudent thing to do.

Rhino. Do you remember where you were on 9/11? Do you remember how the day, and the news coverage of the day, and the following weeks and months? Do you remember how the Bush Administration obfuscated and impaired the ability of investigators to do their jobs? Do you remember the bullshit we were fed? The terrorism risk color scheme? Do you remember how we were made to feel ever more afraid at the same time Bush was pushing for his Reichstag legislation?

I know where I was that day Rhino. I saw it all play out. I used to believe the fairy tale administration lie. But not anymore. You can choose to go along with it. Close your eyes. It's fine by me. When you have serious questions, ask. They will be answered. But please stop using the DP to further the Neocon agenda.

Things are only impossible until they are not.
-- Jean Luc Picard

which I believe describes the big picture that encompasses this entire matter and many others.

It comes down to this simple statement.

"The people no longer trust those who control/occupy their government."

Any why should they, after the behavior that's been continually exhibited over the decades?

All these discussions come down to is a "matter of degree". Some people think they'd only do financial scams, or steal money, do sweetheart deals and kickbacks. Some think they'd rig the votes to get/remain in power. Some think they'd operate propaganda mills to cover their misdeeds. Other people think they'd start wars and kill/destroy for profit, Some people think they'd do pretty much anything at all, no matter how heinous, to further their goals of domination.

How can anyone really fault any of these people for mistrusting the people who operate this institution called "government", when they've given us so many examples of its utter corruption that seems to know NO boundaries?
There are even people here who doubt the whole Federal Reserve thing.

So really, again, it falls into a category of just how much denial a person needs to be in, so as to not go crazy.
It's not really an argument about "how much bad is the gov't capable of doing", as it is "how much each individual can deal with the thought of it".

That is why this is always such a frustrating topic.
The argument really isn't what it seems to be.

A person in denial NEEDS to be in denial, because it is a self-protection mechanism to allow them to function without overload. The person is not going to pop out of this denial because they NEED to be there. If they have vested interests to operate in the system and it keeps them in the popcorn and beer they need, and they can go to the park on Sundays, they don't really want to believe that they are next on the list of appetizers for the hungry beast.

And this is the crux of a successful control system. It gives the sheep just enough piece of the pie, and enough time to eat it, so that they don't rock the boat, even if they are getting fleeced. The people want to hold on to the little that is allowed them, so they don't rise up, for fear of losing what little they have left remaining to them..

This is the classic "Monkey Trap".
If you are not familiar with the monkey trap, it is a very good analogy.
In Africa, trappers set monkey traps made of hollowed-out gourds that are chained to the ground or a tree. There is a hole in these gourds which are just exactly the right size for a monkey's hand to just barely get inside. They put a small hard fruit inside the gourd as bait.
The monkey can put his hand into the gourd and grab the fruit. But, when the fruit is clenched in his fist, he cannot remove his hand from the gourd.
Thus he's trapped.
All he really needs to do is to let go of the fruit, and he's free.
But he will not, because he wants that fruit.
And because he wants to keep that fruit, he traps himself in that gourd until the trapper comes and beats him to death with a club.

So, returning to the original subject, this is a contentious issue because people are at different levels of denial, and nobody is really capable of going further than their existing stage of denial allows them to do.
Hence, the repeated calls for "proof", which they would require to bump them out of their level of denial.

An intelligent person would recognize their denial, even if they can't move past it immediately, because a simple inspection of known fact would indicate that there is no plausible reason to "trust or believe" ANYTHING that emanates from gov't politicians and their minions.
Then, instead of "demanding irrefutable proof" as a form of digging in your heels against learning anything which may push you out of your comfort zone, you could ask someone who is further along, "I'm at this stage of denial here, and what did you do to get past this stage? What evidence did you see that allowed you to progress past this level of denial?"
Then, look at that evidence and see if it helps complete the puzzle for you.
Demands of "irrefutable proof" are simply evidence of denial, and that should be obvious on the face of it.
We don't know all the answers, but investigation will vindicate the truth(whatever that may be) eventually. Until then, it is a quest.

All the other stuff is what it is...a quagmire.

Just let me know when you get WTC 7 figured out.

Let NIST and FEMA know too...they never told us what happened.

And I have a few of my own.

1) I believe it was completely and thoroughly an inside job. Basically those 19 terrorists were allowed to do this and were given alot alot of help. It was an inside job from every angle...from bombs in the buildings to the fact that it wasnt even a plane that hit the pentagon...it was a missile. And of course, the media is complicit. (There is even a NEW theory that suggests that of all the footage we have of the planes actually hitting the buildings...only 1 is real. The others are fakes...holograms. And that real one suggests that it was not a passenger plane but a military plane. This sounds hard to believe even to me, but consider the source. Scholars for 9-11 Truth. The man who promotes this theory is a scientist)

2) Is there absolute proof? Well...how much proof do you need??!! There is a plithera of proof, mountains of evidence. I remember when I first learned that there were bombs in the buildings. My dad told me. He read it in full detail in a local newspaper. And then another old guy told me about it. This was 2003.

3) Yes I would. You must understand that i do not want to believe this. this wasnt my choice. I wish I could be one of those people that believe that our government is good and is not capable of evil because we are Americans. And the Muslims hate us cause we are free and attacked us without provocation. I wish I could be one of those people. But unfortunately the programming didnt work on me.

Semper Fortis

and republican party during this campaign has forced me to take off my rose colored glasses.
If the corruption runs this deep on these lower levels I can only imagine
how deep it runs on higher levels.
Power Corrupts so nothing anymore surprises me.
But with 911, building 7 is the smoking gun..there is absolutely no reason
why it should have come down like it did. It could be a coicedence that 2 buildings fell down into their own footprints at free fall speed with NO resistance in one day..but 3 now that is really a stretch.
Even if their pancake effect was true..they could not have fallen at free fall speed. There are far to many questions that have been risen to trust the explanations that have been given.

I can't answer your last two questions because I don't believe the government is capable of telling the absolute truth. Some may not be aware of the truth and the ones that know the truth would never divulge it for several reasons.

You keep saying truthers as if there is a identified group of people that fall into your wacky no plane space beam categorie. I thought this was an individualist philosophy oriented site. I cant see how you equate logical troubleshooting/process of emlimination of possible suspects, motives, and modes of implementation with complete speculation.whats your view? i know i havent heard it. When the ford and rockefeller foundation funded text books come out explaining how it was done you'll have your answers but until then "all i know is i dont know what happened" will be your mantra, One should have the guts to stand on something they believe to be true until some1 proves them wrong,then use em again to admit they were wrong and stand again. Its a security breach with no immediate investigation, plain and simple, and our air defense system is the most advanced defense system ever constructed by man. 2+2=4 i have my absolute truth p.s. i get the feeling youve been hounded by some cointelpro a bit to much?

i've been looking for absolute truth on why WTC #7 fell.

do u know anything about that, Rhino?

truther. Ill participate tommorow
good night rhino
I like you a lot btw and I respect how you try to make peace everywhere
________________________________________________________________
"let it not be said that no one cared, that no one objected once it's realized that our freedoms & wealth are in jeoprady"
Ron Paul

There is smoke and there are mirrors. When you put them together.. and the 911 Commission Report certainly did... you get MAKE BELIEVE. That's exactly what American's have to deal with until they wake up and press the muppets in DC to investigate 9/11 fully. If the 9/11 Commission Report is substantiated then people can start to heal. I will bet my house that the results will NOT be consistent with that report. So lets support the Kucinich effort to shake the house up. Let's support the RP Convention in MN and the Freedom March on July 12. And, for all of our sdake, STOP the troll-like distractions.

or a liar.

This country needs more critical thinkers

Freedom Isn't Free... Freedom costs a buck 'o five - Trey Parker

I have studied 911, since 911 and although I don't believe some of the conclusions that 911 truthers have come to, I am a 911 truther, I want the truth! I can say for certain two things about 911.

First, the governement knew that it was going to happen.

Secondly, the government allowed it to happen.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...

...." Is there anyone on the forum who wants to argue over unprovable theories, official and otherwise, that will go round and round, ultimately spiraling into hatred and division, because no one can show proof to PROVE their version of what happened on September 11th 2001?"
I think I'm going to start bashing people for posting muckery. Do you want a shadow? If so, keep it up.

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism."

-George Washington

1- Remote controlled planes into the WTC 1 & 2 for effect...bombs in all three buildings and the Pentagon...Missle hit the Pentagon absolutly no sign of any plane at the Pentagon or in PA...All staged by internal agencies to promote an illegal war.

2- In the words of Warner Wolfe: Let's go to the video tape. Loose Change...911 Mysteries...William Rodriguez...John Schroder....Steven Jones...911 ripple effect ect. Evidence is Everywhere!!!!

3- Sure....Do you believe in the tooth fairy?

9/11 was an inside job .....time to get some answers..RP 2008

The important proof is what is not possible.

to convince you of whatever it is you are not sure of, don't keep hassling us with it all rhino. There are many many forums, websites, books, documentaries, which you can study perhaps some more to get some answers you are still looking for.
You are not bringing this up to discuss, you want a cut and dry answer. There is none!

:)

http://www.brasschecktv.c...

1. I have no idea what actaully happened, but I do not believe that airplanes brought the towers down.

2. No I can't prove it because I don't have access to the evidence that is needed to prove it. But many others have done the analysis of the possibilty of the towers falling due to airplanes and it never leads to scientific probability that it could happen. But here's the thing. Just because all theories presented cannot be proven because of the lack of evidence, that does not mean that the original theory is therefore correct and accurate.

3. Absolutely. How do you plan on doing that?

I think it's safe bet that anyone here that believes in chemtrails also believes 9/11 was an inside job.

The common thread is the belief that the government is omniscient and omnipotent, that it's a lot more powerful and competent than it is.

Anyone here believe in chemtrails that does not believe 9/11 was an inside job? Prove me wrong.