Think Practically without comprimising your Principles.
That is one of the reasons I absolutely adore Dr. Paul. He is never comprimising where it matters, his principles. However, he is practical in his pursuit of liberty. If he wasn't I guarantee we wouldnt be working within the Republican Party, for instance.
Now that Dr. Paul has ended his campaign for president and begun the Campaign for Liberty, I am nothing but excited...but still have the short term problem of who to vote for this November. I have been thinking of it for a while and have decided to follow in Dr. Paul's footsteps in thinking practically, but not comprimising what really matters...the ideas.
I understand everyone that is going to write in Ron Paul. I respect it and admire it. However, I have decided that my vote will go to the LP and Bob Barr.
Bob Barr will never be the man that Ron Paul is. He is a poor substitute and his record is shameful.
However, in the pursuit of showing the power of this movement and what lies behind it, the ideology of liberty, I want Bob Barr to get a decent showing this November and force some people to look at what he is SAYING rather than what he has voted for in the past. I want the Republican Party watch as its votes diminish and the Libertarian Party's votes skyrocket. I want what we have fought so hard for this past year: attention and respect.
This post is NOT a condemnation of anyone writing in Ron Paul. I merely want people on this board to understand why some of us will be voting Barr. I want people on this board to see the logic and goals behind it.
I will always be a r[evol]utionary....
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Talk is cheap
Razorwind Studios is an official endorser of Ron Paul, and we will live free or die! 14th alternate to MN state!
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"...force some people to look at what he is SAYING rather than what he has voted for in the past."
How does that make it any different than voting for Obama or McCain? Oooh, we shouldn't care about his past. We shouldn't care about his bad voting record. Don't pay any attention to him voting for the patriot act. Just listen to him talking. Doesn't he sound like a good candidate?
What are we?
I for one cannot and will not endorse a man who voted to strip away the Constitution and lay bare the rights of its citizens for a corrupted government to molest without restraint. A vote for the patriot act gets a no vote from me. "But it will help spread the message and thats what its all about!". Wrong. If it was just about spreading the message then why didn't we all jump when Bar said he'll promote liberty? I'll tell you why. Its because when you break away from the herd and join those who can smell a wolf, sense a wolf, and have warming signs for anything remotely like a wolf. It then makes you awaken to the wolf. When said wolf comes after he has eaten those who are asleep he will say anything, send anything, and do anything to coax out those who know him for what he is. Some may forget, Others can never. Thats just the way it is. Once your eyes are open and you have been hurt by a wolf in sheep's clothing wouldn't it be prudent not welcome the wolf back? Once a neocon always a neocon. Even if he says he's sorry.I say go to God for forgiveness! He will not find any from this awaken Patriot! Onward to the convention. Onward with the Campaign4"true"LIBERTY!
Listen up. Here is your answer. I would also add............
not only is this correct, but by not compromising our vote, we are putting all future candidates on notice, that for any vote they make, or any action in which they partake, we will be holding them accountable. We will no longer look away, grumble, or rationalize ANY vote that violates the Constitution.
That is the only thing that will scare the arrogance out of Washington.
Realdeal
That is the real deal! Its a message.
Barr would hurt our cause.
If Barr is a poor substitute for Ron Paul, then why would it benefit the freedom movement if he made the debates? Think about it. People on the outside would think that we compromise our beliefs just to have someone to vote for.
Ventura 2008 or no vote at all!
R-Double
With All due RP/Human compassioned respect....Why would Barr help our(Ron Paul constitutional) freedom and liberty for all americans cause? I KNOW it's not his voting record.
Because we need more voices
Because we need more voices in the debates. I don't totally approve of Barr but RP seems think it will help our cause if he runs a strong campaign. None of the 3rd party candidates can do that unless they can share the stage with the mainstream picks.
One of my biggest beliefs is that the 2 party system is broken. Or maybe it works as it's supposed to from a certain point of view. Either way, it is just plain wrong. IMO it is the biggest issue we face if we are to restore liberty and have true representative government.
So my loyalty now lays with campaign and election reform. For it is at the base of the pillar of liberty. My strategy is to vote for election reform wherever I can get it. Influence candidates, legislators, and elected officials to author, co-author, or sign legislation giving voters real choices for representative government.
The current tactic is to push to get as many independent and 3rd party candidates into the debate and stack the deck against McBama. You can bicker all you want to about who is the next best choice and what a wasted vote is. Since RP won't be the GOP nominee in September I really can't say for sure how I will vote. I only know how I won't vote, that for sure I will vote, and intend to make the most of my vote.
????/???? or NOTA2008 - http://www.voters4ventura...
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocrac...
Paul would endorse McCain if ...
Ron Paul has said he would endorse even John McCain if McCain changed his opinion on a few issues, like the Iraq War.
Well, Bob Barr already has changed his opinion accordingly.
Paul, Barr throw each other bouquets
Are You Kidding!!?? Ron
Are You Kidding!!?? Ron said that about McCain because he is sure that will NEVER happen. I don't know enough about Barr to comment on whether he's sincere or not.
I haven't made my mind up
and it is fine that you have made a decision. I can understand where you are coming from on this. Understand people are sensitive about voting and I personally would like to see and hear from all the third party candidates. Maybe there could be a third party debate I would REALLY like that and it would say to Dem.and Rep. hey, your not good enough. We want to hear other candidates. Peace
Sorry, It's a no go.
It seems you have been away from dailypaul for awhile. Because the Barr/Root candidacy has been examined, rehashed, exposed and ultimately rejected over and over. Thanks for the post but it's a no go for all the reasons that have been listed and listed and listed.............
I visit daily paul....daily =)
I know its been debated...but the Barr trolls have been the ones presenting the arguements.
I am merely pointing out that Barr, while far from perfect, is the best way to spread the message in November.
Freedom voters.
Practically speaking, one of the two major candidates will be President. As long as we write-in Ron Paul, or in your case, vote Bob Barr, what does it matter? We are voting our conscious. In the end, we have sent a message that we will no longer accept a candidate who puts party politics first, or can be bought by all manner of special interest groups, or thumbs his nose at the Constitution. We are declaring ourselves free.
The difference is that the
The difference is that the votes for Barr will be counted and the write-ins for Paul won't be counted.
Awesome post, Realdeal ... I
Awesome post, Realdeal ... I echo your sentiments :-)
..and it will continue to be
..and it will continue to be debated until November. He may be able to further the cause of liberty between September and November. But I wouldn't go so far as to say the best way. He doesn't please many within the movement. If you can help get Barr in the debate that's great i'm all for it. But I think most people will and should keep looking.
????/???? or NOTA2008 - http://www.voters4ventura...
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocrac...
I couldn't agree more.
I will be supporting and voting for Bob Barr. Though he may not be the perfect candidate he is the only hope for our issues being discussed in the debates to come. I've heard the threshold for the debates will be a polling of 15%. Ron Paul supporters can give Barr the 15% needed to continue a public discussion of the real issues or let the issues go undiscussed.
Ask yourself this. Who will Ron Paul vote for? I don't think he will be writing in his own name. And what a shame it would be for Barr to loose to Obama by a margin of Ron Paul write in votes.
The way I see it, Barr is the best vehicle for the revolution message at this time.
I'll be writing in Ron Paul...
I am a long time (libertarian leaning) Republican, and if I get selected to go to St. Paul on July 12th to represent Oregon, I will be casting a vote for Ron Paul there also. They can throw me out, send me home, whatever, but I will not compromise my principles. THE ONLY PERSON THAT GETS MY (and my wife's) VOTE IS RON PAUL. Have a nice day. Godspeed to liberty!
You'll be lucky if you're vote...
is counted either way. I'm writing in RP.
It's going to be an Obamanation or more of the McSame no matter who you vote for... so vote for the right man for the job. Ron Paul.
Do you really think it matters who you vote for at this point? The msm won't say much about it anyway.
I think they will notice
If the LP gets more than 1% of the vote.
I want the libertarians to be pointed at for McCains defeat. I want recognition and some % of the vote.
But most of all.....I want the message to be spread and taken seriously.
The Libertarians will not
The Libertarians will not send a message. Even if Barr gets 10%. It just doesn't matter at this point. What will happen is that McCain is going to get a ton of votes siphoned off from a bunch of different sources, and he'll soundly lose.
The real message is "Hey Neocons, you suck"
And it'll be delivered whether or not we all write in Paul, or vote for Barr. Personally I will vote my conscience. There's no such thing as a wasted vote. So I'm writing in Paul.
I don't care if they take my vote and send it to the bottom of the ocean. I'll still know in my heart.
I can absolutely respect that
I really would love to vote for Paul in the GE...but moreso than that I want to spread the message of Paul.
Right now, I see the LP as the vehicle for doing so.
Poor reasoning
You are voting for someone that you stated is a "poor substitute and his record is shameful"???? Might as well vote for McCain...he is a poor substitute and his record is shameful too - not much difference.
And you are doing this so the Republican Party votes will diminish?
They are going to DIMINISH without people voting for Bob Barr so what is your point there? Voting for Obama will accomplish the same objective if all you want to do is to diminish Republican votes. Apparently you are simply interested in promoting your Party (Libertarian) - rather than a principled candidate...which makes you just like the Reps and Dems. I believe you HAVE compromised your principles - or either you just don't have any.
I agree.....poor reasoning
But what can you expect from young people who are the product of the American school system? They are no longer taught the skills of critical thinking. Voting for Bob Barr will in no way reflect a support for Ron Paul's beliefs.....that is a huge jump, and an illogical one. It would be like saying, "All people breath air. All people die. Therefore breathing must cause death."Completely irrational.
I will write in Ron Paul and therefore will know, that for the first time ever, I was able to cast my vote for someone who TRULY represents what I believe in.....liberty!
Please.
I am not interested in promoting the LP. I am interested in promoting the ideology. Right now, the LP is way to do that.
My objective is not ONLY to diminish Republican votes...but to vote for the person who is at very least promoting the same message as Ron Paul. McCain and Obama fail miserably.
Great
It's good to hear you are not promoting the LP party. Now go vote for Chuck Baldwin - he is promoting Ron Paul's message and has a clean record.
You're not being practical
Votes for Bob Barr will not be seen as votes for Bob Barr, but as votes supporting the message of freedom for which Ron Paul is campaigning.
Bob Barr cannot and will not win. Everyone knows that. And everyone knows that anyone voting for him knows that. Yet they vote for "him". Why? Because he is running on the LIBERTarIan ticket, that's why. No other reason. His candidacy and campaign therefore stand for liberty.
I would vote for Hitler, Stalin or Mao tse Tsung, even McCain, Bush, Obama or Hillary, if they were the Libertarian candidate with no chance to win. Why? Because that is the only way to cast a vote for liberty in the election, and any other vote, or not voting, or writing in someone, even Ron Paul, is not working for our liberty.
"I would vote for Hitler,
"I would vote for Hitler, Stalin or Mao tse Tsung, even McCain, Bush, Obama or Hillary, if they were the Libertarian candidate with no chance to win."
Then you put party above principle. And the party in this case calls itself "The Party of Principle". Ironic, isn't it?
If you want to vote for Hitler, go ahead--I'm going to vote for either Ron Paul or Chuck Baldwin.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
I respect your right to say it
However, I donot agree. Votes for Barr will be votes for Barr and will be seen as such. A Write In for Ron Paul WILL Be one that the so called Powers That Be ( Or think and believe they are) Will BE Remembered and Documented as such (Barrs WON''T). We The People WILL BE a Force To Be Reckoned With For MANY Years Untill....We The People...Simply and Clearly....ARE.
You'd vote for WHO?
I AM being very practical. One could vote for Chuck Baldwin and accomplish the same results...a protest vote and diminish the Republican support.. unless (as you stated) your ultimate agenda is to promote the Libertarian Party. Is that not what I just stated...that it appears one is voting for the PARTY and not a principled candidate? I will repeat myself here...if one votes for a PARTY - rather than the man - then one is not voting on Principles. And anyone who would vote for Hitler, Stalin, Mao, McCain, Bush, Obama, or Hillary just because they are on the PARTY is not a principled voter....but a party shrill. Such statements as this (and the pushing of Bob Barr on this website) is exactly why I would not vote for him OR the Libertarian Party. I do vote on my principles...and the Barr pushers on here have certainly not impressed me with their reasoning abilities, ethical purposes, or principles.
The very definition of party thinking
Thank you for that very well put synopsis of the errors of party line thinking. Unfortunately we have a two-party system in this country and Ron Paul works within the Republican party. This does not mean he votes for every Republican because they are Republican. This type of thinking is wrongheaded wherever it is found. Whether Republican, Democrat, or Libertarian.
Voting for wrong under the banner of right is only a deception at best and evil at worst.
Ron Paul works within the Republican party and not the Libertarian because of its practicality in opportunity to be heard. In the history of my state never has a third party candidate been elected to its highest office.
If you want to vote for principle and not remain within the Republican party then may I suggest Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party. He is much more in line with Ron Paul's principles than the current Libertarian leadership.
yes
I'll be doing the same thing. It makes no sense to write in if it will be thrown out and I want my vote to show up somewhere outside the two parties as a statement. I'm going to believe that Dr. Paul and Barr are allies and friends as he has said. I want my vote counted, I financially strapped myself this past year donating substantial amounts of money to our campaign while moving to a new state with a new wife and getting a new job. I want someone to vote for in November who is at least saying all the right things. I can't stomach the thought of my vote being thrown out.
"The wicked flee when no man pursueth, but the righteous are as bold as a lion."
I agree
Don't listen to the trolls below, such as docholladay.
BillyDee strikes again...
Bob Barr sucks.... he voted for the patriot act, the Iraq war, has supported neocons and has a trust factor of 'zero'. Give it up BillyDee.....shooo....shoooo.... go away!
"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN
Seriously...
I have been an active member of this site for quite some time.
I am no troll.
I supported Paul with my heart and soul.
this docholladay guy
calls everyone who disagrees with him "BillyDee." I think he's crazy.
"I change my username every
"I change my username every week or so. When you think I'm gone in a few days, I'll actually still be here under another name. I like keeping people on their toes. I may actually start changing it daily." BillyDee
Will you actually deny that you are BillyDee?
"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN
Looks like someone was pulling your leg
to make you paranoid. And it looks like it worked.
He is a poor substitute and his record is
shameful. I can agree with that assessment. It does not exist within me to summon forth the ability to look past or forgive the actions of any individual (regardless of the lapel pin he or she happens to be wearing) who took an active part in helping to pass the most egregious legislative assault on human liberty ever undertaken in this country since the Alien & Sedition Acts under John Adams. Dr. Paul's utterances notwithstanding, I personally cannot forgive or forget such a thing. Quote thy scripture if you please, but to forgive or forget such an act is to guarantee its repetition and/or expansion and that is something that I cannot do. Good luck to Mr. Barr, but he will go forth without my support; not that he will lose any sleep over that fact. Others will decide as they choose and in accordance with their own values, exactly as they should. If you want Barr, then go support him and vote for him. If you like Baldwin, then please do support him and vote for him.
Think a bit more about it.
Barr voted FOR the usa un-patriot act.
So...you want to cast your vote for a man who voted to piss on the Constitution?
Happy for you that you have
Happy for you that you have been able to make your choice-it has to make you feel better settling it in your heart.I guess I will just have to wait and see, a lot can happen between now and then. I do know I will not vote for Obama, McCain, or Barr. As far as write ins go, I will not say to others whether they should or shouldn't do a write in, I will want my vote to be counted, but will have to look at the candidate I most agree with. Good luck to everyone, I realize we won't be all voting for the same candidates, but we can hang together for the common cause of freedom, and that will help the revolution to continue strong-we will most likely lose on the presidency, but gain ground in the other areas.
Ron Paul isnt in the GOP simply because of the leverage it gives
him- thats just a nice by-product. He's in GOP because of what they used to stand for- and works tirelessly to return them to their roots. The house is beautiful- the current tennants bring down the value- he just wants to restore it. He sacrifices NOTHING. He's an Eagle Scout in a den of delinquents-it dosnt make him a bad person for beleiving in the Scout philosophy and wanting to stay. Why should he have to join 4-H instead? Comparing RP being a Repub to voting Barr for practical reasons are apples and oranges. If your conscience dictates that Barr would be a good president- then cast your vote that way. Any other reason is playing the same political game that has brought this nation to her knees. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
He ran as a Libertarian in 1988
because the Republican Party abandoned its principles long ago.
The reason he came back is because it will be easier to reform the Republican Party rather than get a 3rd Party any real standing.
Practicallity and Rationality.
touche
ok you got me there. But the fact remains that he has sacrificed no principles in returning. I would have to sacrifice principles in voting for someone who voted in favor of some of the very government abuses that made this revolution necessary in the first place. And his choice of VP dosnt show an honest repentance. He is however saying alot of the right things now so I dont fault you for wanting to go in that direction.
Barr did not choose his VP running mate.
The LP chose him. Which I think was a mistake and that if enough of us make this known to Barr and the LP leaders that they are turning a lot of RP people off because of it, we could probably get them to replace him!!
The point is the fact that Rootie toot is Barr's VP should not reflect on Barr's "lack of repentance" as you said.
I'd recommend re-reading and re-thinking your post, Spankz.
Your main points are that you want to vote for a person with a "shameful record" in order to get "attention and respect".
Contradict much?
Perhaps you need to reread.
I went on to say that, regardless of his poor record, he is now spreading the message that RP brought to most of us.
The message is what deserves the attention and respect, not the man.
Not comprimising your principles...
Means writing in Ron Paul.
Writing in Dr. Paul means you have no principles
The vote won't be counted.
ahhh....the old "your
ahhh....the old "your wasting your vote" scare tactic.
Thanks, but no thanks. I'll gladly waste my vote. If you can't see the connection in giving up your principles "even just a little" to vote for Barr, to what the Republican and Democratic mainstream has done, then your blind and lost anyway.
Hell, your pulling out the old "your wasting your vote" tactic faster then Bush can send people to Guantanamo or Gore can shout "it was global warming!!!"
sheesh. that slippery slope people talk about...your standing on ice, already moving, and you don't even realize it.
"yea, I know he's not the greatest guy and everything, and he's no Ron Paul, but we could still vote for Barr over McCain/Obama"
Sounds exactly like the lesser of two evil's argument.
Bah.