Party Allignment: The GOP, 3rd parties, and this Movement.
Posted June 14th, 2008 by wninja
output
While I respect those that want to infiltrate the GOP and change it from within. I and many others cannot. If we cannot be "in" the party what are we to do then? Defect to the LP, the CP, or some other party? What if you don't totally see eye-to-eye with these other prominent choices? It would seem you are still at a loss.
As I am looking for a place to call home with-in a party. I'm disenchanted with what I have been finding. It seems that if you really want to stick to your principles and belong to a party of principles you believe in fully you might be left standing alone unless you look really hard at get lucky enough to happen upon a small state party that matches your beliefs. Of course what good is that if they don't have ballot access or the resources to be a national entity. I'm not ruling out the idea. But then joining a smaller ideologically equivalent party can still put you at odds with it's leadership.
I look the the entire freedom movement as something bigger than taking over the GOP and that to re-establish liberty we have to fight on many levels and in many directions, in your own back yard and on a national scale. To my limited recollection never before in my lifetime has a political movement expanded beyond the confines of the party that birthed it. Some could argue that the Reform Party movement was born out of frustration with the Republican leadership just like this one. But the major difference is this one was paid for by the people, not some billionaire.
I'm not sure if others feel this way but do we need to be our own party? Perhaps not for this election cycle but for future ones? Do we have the critical mass to be a party? If so can we transcend what it is to be a political party? Because that's what it would take. We would have to be able to transcend beyond all party lines.
Otherwise all you have left is going to a 3rd party and changing that one from within and what's the difference between that and infiltrating the GOP? Which happens to make my skin crawl.
Below I will post some interesting historical findings on alternative lesser know parties.
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Say we spend years taking over
and becoming the Republican party and then in the next election
there is a great person running on the Dem ticket or some other party.Then what?
Some might argue we don't
Some might argue we don't have "years". But let's say we have 4 more for the sake of this discussion. The next step after the November election is not the 2012 election cycle but rather we will be gearing up for the take over of Congress in 2010. The Freedom Revolution Party or whatever we call it does not need national ballot access at this point. Only state chapters in places we have no influence with in the GOP. It's primary function should be to alleviate Dems of their influence over independent voters who tend to lean left due to complete and total rejection of the establishment GOP.
I do not believe that the creation of a new party is moving away from the cause. Like some of the people advocating retaking of the GOP. I see it as moving the same direction on the other side of the fence.
The fence is irrelivant in that if it were not there we would be one contiguous force. So the idea is to continue as if the fence is not there. For someday it may not be. As we travel down this path there may be opportunities to pass a candidate threw the mesh. But only if you are walking parallel to the cause.
Take over the republican party where you can and elevate 3rd party candidates where there is no other options.
Starting up our own party right now could allow for the movement to synchronize our efforts. Where RP republicans can use the influence of this movements party to whip other Republicans not adhering to the constitution. We would be in the unique position of elevating RP republicans and dethroning neocons as well.
American Patriot Party - http://www.oregonpatriotp...
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocrac...
I was under the impression
I was under the impression that part of our goal was to return the GOP to it's platform.... but we also want to enact the message into reality, so that means getting people elected, and for that, party doesn't matter, but rather principle/stance on the issues....
Right, and a new or 3rd
Right, and a new or 3rd party just means an organized voting block that will support, endorse, and campaign for the liberty candidate or attempt to field one if one is not available.
American Patriot Party - http://www.oregonpatriotp...
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocrac...
You can't or you won't? What
You can't or you won't? What is it that is stopping you from standing with fellow patriots and taking back the GOP? Silly pride perhaps? Look what we did in Idaho: http://www.dailypaul.com/...
My only regret is we did not have more standing with us and we could have done so much more.
You are free to do as you please, you can stand on a corner and wave a sign, or you can come here and philosophize or complain or both however if you really want to effect change your going to have to get into the trenches and get dirty.
If you don't like the GOP then get involved and change it into something you will like. It is not dead and there are still some good people within it and they welcomed us and helped us and we them. It controls a huge voting block in this country that effects every American.
Face your fears and get involved and quite using the excuse you hate the GOP to do nothing. Any general will tell you it is foolish to open up two fronts in a war. You must concentrate your efforts where it will do the most good.
The GOP is the front lines of this war, if we can control it ( winning wars is about controlling ground) we can transform it into what it should be. We tried leaving and complaining from the outside and hows that working out?
Starting our own party means we have to recruit from scratch Do you have any Idea how long that would take? We don't have that kind of time. The GOP is the best vehicle to get us to our goals the quickest. It doesn't matter what it has done in the past it only matters what we can make it into.
By taking control of it we gain a big enough voting block to effect real change. That strategy is working. We proved it in Idaho this weekend and other states have proven it also. All you folks waiting on the sidelines for some miracle party or candidate to spring up are wasting time and energy and making it harder and longer for those who are on the front lines now.
Ron Paul is a catalyst, but we are the people we have been waiting for. I had the same fears, and same loathing for the GOP as you but I faced them and ran for PCP and lost but I still became a delegate and voted with my fellow patriots and we changed our state GOP already. I often stood alone among my county delegation on roll call votes. Just think if we had all those patriots who talked the talked but did not step up come with us. How much more and sooner could we accomplish our goals?
It's time to stop the talk and get into the game. It is the only thing that will change things.
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"The GOP is the front lines
"The GOP is the front lines of this war, if we can control it ( winning wars is about controlling ground) we can transform it into what it should be. We tried leaving and complaining from the outside and hows that working out?"
'We' did? When was that? I must have been doing something else then...
I think if the movement turns into an outcropping of the GOP, we will lose a lot of followers. Not just a few--a lot. As in thousands--possibly hundreds of thousands. The poll posted from RonPaul.com the other day deadlined two days before Dr. Paul made his announcement that he was ending his campaign. Even then, Third Party sentiments were outpolling the sentiment of "let's take back the GOP":
http://www.ronpaul.com/20...
So if that poll is any indication, those of you who want to take over the GOP from within are actually a minority in this movement.
Why not accommodate both those who want to infiltrate the GOP and those who want a strong constitutionalist Third Party? Our movement is large and strong and can move in both directions.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Does this mean you're gonna tow the partyline & vote 4 McCain?
You assume i haven't been in the game? I have my friend. I assumed control of my precincts open chair, elected myself chair, nominated/elected an avid RP supporter with political ambitions, a 6 year Iraq war vet., secured the alternate delegate slot for myself, witnessed the local GOP filibuster the King county convention, the whole nine yards. I've applied to become my precincts PCO...twice. The local GOP craps on every RP supporter every chance it gets. So don't tell me when to get in the game. That's just plain rude.
Strategically, on a local level the GOP doesn't have the protections national seats enjoy. Since that is a major weakness, key to their stranglehold, and competitive for independents. I have chosen to exploit it.
The strategy employed upon us was and is divide and conquer. We are already on multiple fronts and I'm not talking about the GOP. I'm talking about the, Progressives, Liberals, Socialist, Leftist entities controlling the Democratic Party.
The local GOP in Washington state will not allow an independent to run on their ticket. They have rebuffed their credentialing pre-requisites and no RP republican will meet those requirements. If you're in a blue state and wanna play. You have to out maneuver ALL of your enemies and gain some kind of foothold.
Principally, I am for representative government. This means clean, fair, and transparent elections, universal nation ballot access, and voters right to withhold consent. Without it you cannot have liberty. If you do not stand for those you differ with then you do not stand for liberty. I stand for the LP and the CP and all the other 3rd parties trying to be heard even though i am a registered Republican.
If you can work with in the GOP I am truly happy for you. However, just because you have success where you live mean everyone can have success where they live. You have to know how to fight, when to fight, who to fight, and where to fight. You can't just show up.
The creation of a 3rd party... any 3rd party(past present future) is control of a voter block. At the grassroots level in a very very blue state that hates Bush and republicans in general. With entrenched GOP neocons running the show. Even if there were no neocon influence here. Would still not support the GOP because it's brand name has been heavily tarnished in this state. In this state and likely many more. A new brand is needed if we are to even get so much as a foothold at the local level.
American Patriot Party - http://www.oregonpatriotp...
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocrac...
I Understand Your Frustration ..
I understand your frustration but it sounds to me as though the methodology you are prescribing is the same thing as giving up.
NoOne said it would be quick easy.
Only under a complete suspension of logic.
How so??? How on earth do you quantify the movement to use a vehicle that can be accessed giving up? Anytime I hear some say to me "same thing as" when clearly it is not I feel an ominous shadow of government indoctrination looming overhead. You can't possibly use this line of thinking without suspending reason and logic. It is that mentality that got us where we are today.
That way of thinking reminds me of the "isolationist" attacks RP received. Or those that jump to say you blame America first if you question 911. It is both poisonous and corrosive to think this way. If you don't support the patriot act you're not a patriot.... You see what I'm getting at?
"Giving up" as you put it can only achieved by well...giving up. Not by any other means. So don't try to change the meaning of something that is clearly defined as something else. Or you are no better than what we fight against. Just another word thief.
American Patriot Party - http://www.oregonpatriotp...
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocrac...
By looking at all the
By looking at all the parties listed below that are pretty much dead or not accomplishing much it seems apparent to me that taking over one of the major parties and then putting forth legislation from WITHIN that major party to make 3rd party access to debates/ballots easier is going to probably bring more fruit to the table than just trying to force our way in from the outside.
I posted these ones for a
I posted these ones for a number of reasons. First they all share some sort commonality with my own beliefs. Not all of them are dead but the dead ones show us what can happen.
The time to pressure for ballot access and voter consent legislation is before a candidate is elected. If we are to lose the Whitehouse then whoever is inaugurated has to swear they will fight for these causes. If it is McCain or Obama we are going to be hard pressed to get them to sign on.
Some parties do not field any candidates on any level. They exist to promote their issues and support mainstream candidates that are sympathetic to their cause. The CFL is/will be somewhat like that although the concentration will be on the republican base. Putting forth legislation from within will only work if you do it yourself.
I am becoming more and more attracted to this little known party.
http://www.oregonpatriotp...
The American Patriot Party is quite appealing and something that can grow and blossom into something substantial.
????/???? or NOTA2008 - http://www.voters4ventura...
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocrac...
Im not following. I guess
Im not following. I guess you think a 3rd party stands a remote chance of winning the presidency in 08??? The only thing these 3rd parties showed to me was that the 2 party system will NOT allow a 3rd party to break in. Hence the reason I felt that taking over one of the major parties was the prime directive so that we could implement no electronic voting machines, no disparity between 3rd parties for ballot access etc etc.
Well not one born now out of
Well not one born now out of this thread no. But it could influence debate and policy in thew future. I've not given up on 2008 just yet but as for a vote solution I have none at this time. The dilemma is that I cannot work with in the GOP but happily support those who can. The propose of this thread is to see if i can see where we will be for the 2010 takeover of Congress. I will be fighting for voter consent and ballot access and using the new platform to push the agenda. If we have a large enough constituency then all candidates running will have to look at us and consider our voting block and our issues.
This election cycle I will most likely either vote Baldwin or Barr unless there is a better alternative come November.
American Patriot Party - http://www.oregonpatriotp...
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocrac...
It's About Engagement In The Electoral Process
All of these half-fast suggestions are half right at least half of the time. If given half a chance they may half way succeed in due course. But time is of the essence. We are anxious now for a quick solution.
Speaking of quickening, we are feeling the stirrings of what we hope will birth into a new political coalition. If we want an obstetrician to help with the delivery of this nascent political federation in time for this election gestation needs to culminate in September.
In any event I believe we need to get together. Here are some thoughts I posted elsewhere that are relevant to this discussion:
Let’s Get Together
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
Ballot access is an urgent challenge. Ralph Nader is an old pro at this and they are definitely working on it at this very minute. Look at the Nader/ Russert interview I linked on the Nader thread.
http://www.dailypaul.com/...
I get the impression Nader threw in because Obama blew him off on an ultimatum over Obama’s sellout to Israel. Maybe he would make room for Jesse in order to carry the big stick for the cause. He understands coalition building. Ninja’s post points out that last election Nader swung a deal with reform party elements for ballot access and, of course, he’s not running as a Green this time. Remember Jesse apparently dropped hints about RFK,Jr.( free market environmental advocate) as a choice for a running mate.
I haven’t researched how these elements may come together, but I throw them out there because they may have relevance for the issue of ballot access in the event any of these players were willing and able to step down as a placeholder for a ballot slot for the big dog.
But remember also the history Ninja’s post recounts. The ideological, ego based backstabbing that keeps the factions at odds will need to be overcome, and subordination of agendas will be required.
http://www.dailypaul.com/...
Our own nation’s history reminds us noble alliance is possible.
As I’ve said, there should be dialog and efforts at collaboration. At a minimum there needs to be invitations. Who is coordinating Washington DC on the 12th ? Jesse should have his own event in Minneapolis and invite Ron Paul, Nader, Kucinich, et al… It should have an antiwar theme and be broader than the Republican constituency Ron Paul is courting.
I am less confident how well the convergence in September will work with factions coming together before Ron Paul's worthwhile strategy has a chance to play out; but I don't think there is time to pussy foot. I do not believe these events can be scripted. Don't cram Ron's gig, but let's get all the elements together on the occasion of the GOP convention. Accordingly I believe this congress for coordinated action should include Barr and Baldwin though, understandably, they will be more aggressive poachers of conservative cast offs. As this forum itself demonstrates, that competitiveness can be divisive. But really what do we have to loose ? It takes a confluence of forces to create a vortex.
Look, we don’t know how it’s going to shake out. The first step is we dialog. Anyone who wants to be a player has to have a party or at least throw one. Any one of us can start the dialog with videos, blog posts or meetings among organizers.
Let’s get together and find ways to work together.
This is what needs thought. Certainly the coalescing issue needs to be narrow and universal such as the Patriot Act and the war… and opening up the electoral process. All can agree on this core dogma. If this were to be a conclave like the College of Cardinals they could all go behind closed doors and not emerge until the chimney emits a swirl of white smoke to announce the choice of the oldest contender so we aren’t stuck with the consensus decision for very long ( in that case Nader trumps our Dr. since he’s 74). We wrestling fans would likely urge we defer neither to seniority nor who has paid their dues but call on our strongest champion as in the tournaments of olde and instead make it a Battle Royale where we throw them all in a ring together and the last one to get tossed out is proclaimed the winner- take- all for our consensus in November.
No, best yet I envision a model more apropos to the occasion of crisis…. And so we assemble.
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
Let Us First Begin by Each Rising To The Occasion.
Freedom rings
Freedom rings from the hearts of people in all corners of the world. All who have their freedom taken away by force will cry out and work to restore it. It's growing in the US again - what a wonderful thing
As it is, I cannot work within my local GOP. I've been a libertarian for many years and that's more of who I am, so that's where I'll work - LP, FSP & local. I do have great confidence and hope for Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty. I hope that the new org will consider supporting liberty-oriented candidates from any party and not just the GOP, but, whatever, go Doc! I just want liberty to rule and I remain open to many paths, opening the tent up wide to welcome ALL who realize its fruits, even Bob Barr.
A new party sounds fine to me, but another LP sized org isn't going to accomplish it. We'd need big time numbers and maybe with the Doc's leadership we'll pull it off!
I agree but..
Divided we fall! Restoration of the GOP to its principles is the best bet. Although uniting many third parties into one would be good. Then we could pull out many independents and disenfranchised GOP's under a name like the Constitution Party!
Well i don't really feel the
Well i don't really feel the CP or the LP have ever quite had the ideal formula for success in their own cause. The only best example of these factions being transcended by any one entity is Ron Paul. To me it stands to reason that a party platform of Ron Paul could put substantial numbers on the board and be powerful and significant whip to seated elected officials and the GOP.
To join the Constitution Party and have to work to change it's platform to accommodate refugees such as myself I think would only hurt the CP. I do not want to fragment any major 3rd party by challenging their platform. They exist and persist for those who hold those particular values. Why, I can't say. But a party of "my own" would be a forum from which to address these differing ideologies.
American Patriot Party - http://www.oregonpatriotp...
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocrac...
I don't think the
I don't think the Constitution Party platform needs that much re-tooling. If its more moralistic planks---pro-drug abolition and pro-censorship, were eliminated or identified as State's Rights issues, what else is wrong with the platform? References to God? There are references to God in every presidential inaugeration speech and on our money.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
What's their position on
What's their position on states rights?
American Patriot Party - http://www.oregonpatriotp...
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocrac...
From the Platform: The 10th
From the Platform:
The 10th Amendment states:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."
The Constitution delegated few, enumerated powers to the Federal Government, reserving all remaining powers to the States and the people. Thus, powers of the Federal were the exception.
Our federal republic was created by joint action of the several states. It has been gradually perverted into a socialist machine for federal control in the domestic affairs of the states.
The federal government has no authority to mandate policies relating to state education, natural resources, transportation, private business, housing, and health care, ad infinitum.
We call upon the states to reclaim their legitimate role in federal affairs and legislation (See Amendment 10 United States Constitution) and thus cause the federal government to divest itself of operations not authorized by the Constitution and extract the federal government from such enterprises, whether or not they compete with private enterprise."
Since neither drug prohibition nor censorship are proper functions of the federal government, all issues people have with their platform are moot points by default.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Okay, but... can these
Okay, but... can these arguments be made to them with success. Without causing fractures in the CP and it's leadership?
The Constitution Party has a close relationship to the American Patriot Party in that they wish to return the country to the principles it was founded on;
The difference is that they do not go far enough in their understanding of the Originating Founders intent of states rights. It is a mis conception that the Constitution "gives" Americans Rights through the Bill of Rights; The Constitution simply "limits" the "Federal" government from taking away rights that "by God" you "already possess" even those rights that are not presented in the Bill of Rights - See Mr. Marshall's Statement Below in this segment. And which even you cannot give away or sell to others as this would be voluntary slavery; nor can you be taken by "involuntary servitude".
The differences of our two parties become wider when the issues we both hold come into the arena of how the American Patriot Party intends to make those changes. These differences will be presented on our Party Comparison Page ("Compare" page) in the near future. Please check back.
It is our view that the Constitutional Party hopes to make changes to come more from the federal government in areas the federal government has no Constitutional powers to establish.
The American Patriot Party along with proposing major federal limitations in powers and bureaucratic reductions, directs the states and counties to take hold of the powers they already possess to make changes in their state; and with this power, make additional state reductions and limitations as were intended by the founders in the states relations with the federal government.
Further, we hold that the Constitution is very limited in its powers and is subject to earlier oaths, retained rights and definitions, and cannot be applied as a sole foundation in which to derive law:
Declaration of Independence: "And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."
Constitution: Article VI: All Debts contracted "and "Engagements" entered into (Oaths and Declarations), before the adoption of this Constitution, shall be as valid against the United Sates under this Constitution as under the "Confederation". This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be "made" in >>>"pursuance thereof"<<< ; and all Treaties (Oaths and Declarations) "made", or which shall be "made", under the Authority of the United States, shall be supreme Law of the Land ...."
Declaration of Independence:
37th Grievance: "We, therefore, the representatives of the United States of America, in general congress assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the World for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the name and by the authority of the good people of these colonies, solemnly publish and declare that these united colonies are, and "of right" "ought to be", free and "independent" states;"
39th Grievance: "and that "as" free and independent states they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent states may of "right" do."
American Patriot Party - http://www.oregonpatriotp...
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocrac...
Personally, I don't
Personally, I don't understand the appeal, to you, of the American Patriot Party. Apparently there are only four Third Parties that have kept up with their FEC responsibilities--the America First Party, the Constitution Party, the Libertarian Party and the Green Party.
What I'm suggesting, again, is if you don't want to support/take over one of the above parties, why not start a brand new one instead of resurrecting an old dead one? You'd have the same amount of work on the ground to do for the old dead one as you would for the new fresh one.
Personally, I think the best option is to work with the Constitution Party. They are already on the ballot in over 30 states.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Actually I came to that
Actually I came to that conclusion last night
The APP lays out it's platform very well with constitutionality backing up damn near every statement made by the party. They are super small but I would let that bother me too much. Instead there are other things that bother me. So I have the epiphany late last night that if we do this it should be a party from scratch.
We can isolate the planks that are disagreeable and cherry pick the other parties best positions and attributes. I'm still meditating on this but will post on the idea in another day or so when I have a substantive outline of the strategy.
American Patriot Party - http://www.oregonpatriotp...
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocrac...
Another Bob Barr plug by Dr. Paul on Cavuto:
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
You Dolt!
We already had this discussion awhile back. Neil Caputo Plugged Barrera. Not Ron Paul. Ron Paul just answered the plug posed by Caputo. Got that goofy?
lol!!!!!!!!!!! as for me and
lol!!!!!!!!!!!
as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD
Its a zen thing
"To bend the spoon you first have to realize there is no spoon" from the matrix
The vast majority of Americans are locked into a two party mentality and see any 3rd party as upstart idiots without a track record. We have to realize there are no actual party lines, just political backers who influence american policy. So, stepping behind the curtain and making the necessary changes means influencing the two major parties with supporting liberty minded candidates and policies.
Great idea
I would suggest that the America First party has too many associations with Lindbergh and 'facism' and is not a good name.
What is wrong with taking back the Reform party? Isn't this possible? They nearly won and this is a good thing to have behind you!
Please look at American
Please look at American Patriot Party (APP)
http://www.oregonpatriotp...
It's looking better all the time.
REFORM PARTY - Once a rapidly growing, populist third party, the Reform Party shifted far to the right in recent years -- but then experienced massive waves of conservative defections away into the Constitution Party and the new America First Party in 2002. First, some history: after running as an Independent in 1992, billionaire Texas businessman Ross Perot founded the Reform Party in 1995 as his vehicle for converting his independent movement into a permanent political party. In 1996, Perot ran as the Reform Party's presidential nominee (8,085,000 votes - 8%). Although an impressive showingReform Party - 1996 for a third party, it was much less than the 19 million votes Perot carried as an independent candidate back in 1992. The party traditionally reflected Perot's center-conservative fiscal policies and anti-GATT/NAFTA views -- while avoiding taking any official positions on social issues (although much of this group seemed to hold generally libertarian social views). The RP was plagued by a lengthy period of nasty ideological battles in 1998-2000 involving three main rival groups: the "Old Guard" Perot faction, the more libertarian Jesse Ventura faction, and the social conservative Pat Buchanan faction. A fourth group -- a small but vocal Marxist faction led by RP activist Lenora Fulani -- generally backed the Perot faction during these fights. To make this even more confusing, the Perot faction ultimately turned to Natural Law nominee and Maharishi follower John Hagelin as its "Stop Buchanan" candidate for President. After several nasty and public battles, the Ventura faction quit the RP in Spring 2000 and the old Perot faction lost control of the party in court to the Buchanan faction in Fall 2000 (and Perot ultimately endorsed Bush for President in 2000). That gave the Buchanan Brigade the party's $12.6 million in federal matching funds. Within months, the Buchanan allies won control of nearly the entire party organization. Along with Buchanan's rise to power in the party, the party made a hard ideological shift to the right -- an ideological realignment that continues to dominate the RP. In the aftermath of the 2000 elections, it is clear that Buchanan failed in his efforts to establish a viable, conservative third party organization (comprised largely of disenchanted Republicans). Buchanan was on the ballot in 49 states, captured 449,000 votes (4th place - 0.4%) -- and later told reporters that his foray into third party politics may have been a mistake. His weak showing also meant that the party is ineligible for federal matching funds in 2004. The new RP had the opportunity to become the leading social conservative third party (think of it as a Green Party for the right) -- but more internal conflicts made this impossible. In Spring 2002, former Buchanan VP runningmate Ezola Foster and the California and Maryland RP leaders jumped to the Constitution Party. Almost simultaneously, the entire RP leadership in nearly 20 other states (the core of the Buchanan Brigade folks) defected en masse to form the new America First Party -- delivering a demoralizing and devastating blow the the future viability of the RP. The remaining pieces of the RP appeared to drift away following that implosion. For the 2004 Presidential election, the remaining RP leaders gave their nomination and their ballot status in several states to Ralph Nader's fusion candidacy. The RP was just about bankrupt by late 2004, having less than $50 remaining in its bank account. A few state Reform chapters remain active as of 2006 -- particulary in Kansas and Florida -- but the Reform Party is virtually dead as a national entity. The factional in-fighting in the party even spills over into the RP website or, more correctly, the two rival "offiicial" sites. One is the one linked above and the other is ReformPartyUSA.org -- with a pending lawsuit to decide which one can claim the "official" status.
IMO the Reform Party is not a valid option. I can't say what caused the Reform Parties in-fighting but I'm betting it'll rear it's ugly head again if we get involved. The splintered factions are not/ were not held together by anything other than Perot's money. We don't need that kind of headache. This is a case where they need us more than we need them and they are the establishment. The Reform Parties many factions didn't set aside their differences for Paul during the campaign. I doubt they will now and if not then what reason do they have to let us drive the bus now? Perot's not coming back. Ventura's not coming back. Buchanan's not coming back. (not that i'm interested in the theology)
????/???? or NOTA2008 - http://www.voters4ventura...
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocrac...
Didnt know they had sunk
I didn't know they had sunk that low. That's a shame.
Kevin Tuma is probably right - the Constitution party. If you can get the Constitution party to be A Constitution party and abandon some of its less libertarian policies (maybe not possible) or the American First Party or a coalition. The American Patriots Party goes on a bit about smallish things, like prison conditions (important but for a lobby group more than a political party) and 'despoiling the wilderness' (same) and seems to be for socialized medicine (not in the Constitution). I think to really do any good the Libertarian Party, Constitution Party, America First and APP whoever is basically committed to having a national govt run according to the Constitution have to form some kind of Reform Coalition Party.
I could vote for either the LP, the Constitution party or the America First and APP so in that case, a coalition? They need to join forces – figure out and just eliminate or totally de-emphasize the differences. Getting the party leaders to agree and members might not be as hard as all that – they are all intelligent people who see it is desperation time. A coalition party might not be possible anyway. I don’t know how it would work.
If what wninja says is true that the sliding to the right is what did in the Reform party, that has to be avoided. It needs to be a small-l libertarian Jeffersonian party. I think RPs position on drugs, gay marriage, abortion is fine and isn't too alienating for lots of people. If Jesse Ventura couldn't be a part of it, then it won't do much good. And I am no fan of his.
Things are bad enough that I think it's possible that most members would put away the natural tendency to infighting and set aside some of the social issues to form a coalition party. And if they thought they COULD win, people would be less inclined to fight amongst each other too.
Good Points, Well Stated
You say you are not a fan of Jesse Ventura. I respect that view and respect particularly the constructive way you have expressed that opinion. Jesse Ventura is a fan of Ron Paul. Let’s all keep an open mind and keep exploring all our options.
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
I think it's very possible
I think it's very possible to take over the Constitution Party--we could do that in a fortnight, actually--and rewrite its platform. It's still our best choice for Third Party base if we choose an existing Third Party.
I have no problem with its Christianity, since I am a Christian and a conservative, like Dr. Paul and most people in our movement. The Founders did not hold to any rigid 'wall of separation'. The vast majority were Christians and Deists. Thomas Jefferson, the poster boy of the atheist-revisionists, led public prayers as President.
The Constitution Party's platform is too-pro war and pro-drug abolition, but we can change that easily.
I'm neutral on Ventura, I like him, but Chuck Baldwin's closer to my beliefs. The truth is Jesse should have been the nominee of the Libertarian Party..he should have thrown his hat in the ring. I think he'd make a good US Senator. I doubt he can get on the presidential ballot. I wish those trying to get him there luck, though. They should also consider drafting him to take Wayne Root's spot on the LP ticket.
We can do all these things if we want. We should not be collectivists putting all our eggs in one basket.
The "infiltration" of the Republican Party should go for the Democrats as well, since much of the conservative Deep South is about to go Democrat. Look at the South Carolina race, as an example.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
I think you're
I think you're underestimating the amount of non-christians in this movement
I agree that taking back the
I agree that taking back the Reform Party is an excellent idea, because it had a decent image, plus Jesse Ventura, who many people want to run, is associated with it. Perot was also associated with it, and might be interested in reviving it as a donor.
Otherwise, if we do not bebuild Reform, or build up the Constitution Party, I can see no reason not to create a new party. All the work is in the ballot access, not the brand name.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
APP man APP
Forget the Reform Party and only go Constitution Party if you must.
This American Patriot Party is really growing on me.
http://www.oregonpatriotp...
Perot's money is what built the Reform Party and their movement was held together with nothing but that money. Money can't buy a movement. But a Movement can bring the money.
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Try the America First Party
www.americafirstparty.org
IMHO they are a little lackluster and going nowhere fast.
AMERICA FIRST PARTY - The America First Party America First Partywas founded in 2002 by a large group of arch-conservative "Buchanan Brigade" defectors who splintered away from the declining Reform Party to form this uncompromisingly social conservative and fair trade party (with a strong foundation in the Religious Right movement). The AFP vows to "protect our people and our sovereignty ... promote economic growth and independence ... encourage the traditional values of faith, family, and responsibility ... ensure equality before the law in protecting those rights granted by the Creator ... [and] to clean up our corrupted political system." Within months of the AFP's founding, the AFP fielded a few candidates and established affiliates in nearly 20 states -- and they hoped to be organized in nearly all 50 states by the end of 2003. Within a year, however, those hopes were dashed. The AFP's national leaders all resigned in mid-2003 after a radical group affiliated with ultra-right militia movement leader Bo Gritz purportedly grabbed control of key party elements for a short while. In addition to Gritz, pre-existing financial problems and personality divisions within the party also contributed to the AFP's rapid collapse. The party failed to nominate any candidates in 2004, and has been almost totally inactive since then. One AFP faction, based in Iowa, vowed in 2006 to start rebuild the party.
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Actually that is not correct, the America First Party = Reform P
Actually that is not correct, the America First Party = Reform Party.
If you are not totally up to date on what happened. The Reform Party was deep in dept and still is - they owe $300,000 plus to the Federal Government, the last bank statement to the FEC showed they had about $1,200.00 available. So a majority of states disaffiliated from the Reform Party to escape the fact that the party went into debt under Party Chairman Gerry Moan (or as he was called "the moaner") .
All those states formed the America First Party - which basically has the exact same platform as Ron Paul on the issues.
There was then a split in the America First Party - a fight within the party because the southern faction wanted Bo Gritz to speak at their national convention - (according to some he was a racist) and much of the rest of the party wanted no racist element within the party - so a power struggle went on and the southern faction lost and they dissaffiliated.
Some of them started their own party, and some from Tennessee started a radio show that has been fairly successful. www.thepoliticalcesspool....
But the bottom line is that the America First Party is the old Reform Party, those in the new Reform Party are just a group that took over the name and the large monetary debt. You really do not want to be a national committee member in the Reform Party or the government might come after you for that money owed.
Okay, I looked into it more.
Okay, I looked into it more. They are tiny group but quality folks. The same thing seems to bother me in most cases is the bible pushing. What I'm looking for is a party that screams RPR. The big tent that a lot of people with major differences still managed to come together under for a single cause. I am nearly certain we will have to create it from scratch.
American Patriot Party - http://www.oregonpatriotp...
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I feel your pain
Although I applaud the efforts of taking over the republican party and forcing them to live up to there platform, I suspect it just won't happen. As an alternative I propose this: http://unitetheparties.bl... . This battle should be fought on many fronts, as long as the goal is liberty.
"We must take back the Republican Party."
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
"We must take back the Republican Party." - Ron Paul.
I think he is right. I think the most effective strategy is a grass roots movement within the GOP. Many in that party have been fighting for Libertarian Principles for years.... just like Dr. Paul. It will definitely be difficult, but it is doable.
That is not to say that I will ever vote all Republican ever again. McCain will not be getting my vote.
Rock on! I'm with ya, but
Rock on! I'm with ya, but not really you know what I'm saying? Whatever those of us outside the republican party do, we are all for retaking the republican party. But if you do not run yourself, are not a PCO, not a delegate, not entrenched in the republican party. There are other things you can do. The LP does it, the CP does it. Anything that becomes of this will follow suit. I just happen to think there is room for a party that is the living embodiment of the RPR movement.
Right now the American Patriot Party looks like it could be the one. And, I don't think the focus is really on national ballot access. But rather strengthen popularity in the states already established. If you wanna get an idea of our numbers. I would argue that this is far more effective than a grand march on Washington although not as immediate or fun. We will be looking to endorse patriots and field them if no others can be found. Threw, in all likelihood...the Republican Party.
And, if the American Patriot Party is the real deal it means it's gonna happen anyway and it's only a matter of time before it catches on. If the Republican Party won't have ya, and this is where the herd is going anyway I just prefer to know sooner rather than later.
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This isn't going to be a
This isn't going to be a GOP-centered movement. It isn't managed top-down, and there aren't that many people in our ranks who support putting all our eggs into one basket.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Nope, this is going to be a
Nope, this is going to be a RPR-centered movement. ...and some of these baskets already had someone else's eggs in it before we got here.
American Patriot Party - http://www.oregonpatriotp...
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I agree and after this election
they will be vulnerable as they will lose most if not all of their seats.
Lets have a Party
Take your pick or start your own. Currently only two parties have the possibility of becoming major players with 50 state ballot status. Unfortunately the powers that be have made the task almost impossible. That is why Dr.Paul chose the GOP as the vehicle. We have been the third party route with Dr. Paul in 1988 and only managed to get on the ballot in 46 states. Unless you can change the ballot access laws in most of the states you will be spending most of your time and money collecting signatures to get on the ballot. Currently the Libertarian Party is on the ballot in 28 states and the Constitution Party is on the ballot in 16 states. Of that number I do not know in how many states they have permanent ballot status. The Libertarians and the Constitution have permanent ballot status in Idaho.
For the aforementioned reasons Dr. Paul chose the Republic-an Party as the vehicle to spread the message. It is the party that had at one time subscribed to the principals that Dr. Paul has championed. I believe Dr. Paul is correct in wanting to work within the Republic-an Party as it's original principals and platform are consistent with Dr. Paul's principals. The only way we will effect the necessary changes in the Principals and Platform of the Republic-an Party, which they have ignored for the past 40+ years is from the inside, is at the county and state level. The same lessons that will be required to learn to develop a viable third party are the same lessons required to change the Republic-an Party, except the infrastructure is already in place with the Republic-an Party and they are on the ballot in all 50 states. Therefor all the time, energy and money required to get on the ballot would be better put to use in changing the Republic-an Party. The old guard is passing on and the party is shrinking, the new people coming to the Republic-an party are the followers of Dr. Paul. Rome wasn't built in a day. There are many of us within the Liberty/Freedom movement who have been working for this day for 30-40 years or more. We know from where we speak, we've been there done that from circulating petitions to get on the ballot to running for office to chairing county and state committees to writing letters to the editor and guest editorials to publishing news letters to radio and TV appearances to talking to high school government classes to all the facets of working for Liberty/Freedom. If you don't work for Liberty/Freedom you don't "GET IT".
The Libertarian Party has it's roots in the Republic-an Party being founded by disenfranchised Young Republic-ans in Dec.1971. After 37 years they are only half way to having permanent ballot status in all 50 states. We don't have 37 years. Unfortunately too many people here are operating off their emotions instead of logic and reason, but then that requires first educating yourself. Know what you know not what you think you know. Try a new experience "THINK"
AMERICA FIRST PARTY
AMERICAN PARTY
AMERICAN CENTRIST PARTY
AMERICAN HERITAGE PARTY
AMERICAN INDEPENDENT PARTY
AMERICAN NAZI PARTY
AMERICAN PATRIOT PARTY
AMERICAN REFORM PARTY
AMERICAN SOCIALIST PARTY
CENTRIST PARTY (United States)
CHRISTIAN FALANGIST PARTY OF AMERICA
COMMUNIST PARTY USA
CONSTITUTION PARTY
CONSTITUTIONALIST PARTY
DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISTS OF AMERICA
FAMILY VALUES PARTY
FREEDOM ROAD SOCIALIST ORGANIZATION
FREEDOM SOCIALIST PARTY / RADICAL WOMEN
GREEN PARTY OF THE UNITED STATES (GREEN PARTY)
THE GREENS/GREEN PARTY USA (G/GPUSA)
INDEPENDENCE PARTY
INDEPENDENCE PARTY of AMERICA
INDEPENDENT AMERICAN PARTY
JEFFERSON REPUBLICAN PARTY
LABOR PARTY
LIBERTARIAN PARTY
LIBERTARIAN NATIONAL SOCIALIST GREEN PARTY
LIGHT PARTY
MARIJUANA PARTY
MODERATE PARTY
MULTICAPITALIST PARTY
NATIONAL SOCIALIST MOVEMENT
NATURAL LAW PARTY
NEW AMERICAN INDEPENDENT PARTY
NEW BLACK PANTHER PARTY
NEW PARTY
NEW UNION PARTY
PANSEXUAL PEACE PARTY
PARTY OF SOCIALISM AND LIBERATION
PEACE AND FREEDOM PARTY
PERSONAL CHOICE PARTY
POPULIST PARTY of AMERICA
POT PARTY
PROGRESSIVE LABOR PARTY
PROHIBITION PARTY
RAY O. LIGHT GROUP
REFORM PARTY of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA
REFORM PARTY
REVOLUTIONARY COMMUNIST PARTY USA
THE REVOLUTION
THE THIRD PARTY
SOCIAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY of AMERICA
SOCIAL DEMOCRATS USA
SOCIALIST ACTION
SOCIALIST ALTERNATIVE
SOCIALIST PARTY USA
SOCIALIST EQUALITY PARTY
SOCIALIST LABOR PARTY
SOCIALIST WORKERS PARTY
UNITY08
U.S. MARIJUANA PARTY
U.S. PACIFIST PARTY
VETERANS PARTY of AMERICA
WE THE PEOPLE PARTY
WORKING FAMILIES PARTY
WORKERS WORLD PARTY
WORKERS PARTY, USA
WORLD SOCIALIST PARTY of the USA
IDAHO is what AMERICA was
Voluntary Association + Mutual Cooperation + 110% Personal Responsibility = 100% Individual Liberty
Party to the Transaction
Very sound analysis and your tag line is 120% on.
Thoughtful
http://www.dailypaul.com/...
Reasonable
http://www.dailypaul.com/...
Don't need that list
Don't need that list anymore. I've already drudged threw them and selected the best examples with ideological similarities. I hear what you are saying about the time thing. But there is one significant difference between what they did and what I want to do and that's succeed.
...and I know why they have stymied too and it is the same reason I can't join them. Ultimately it is ideology. CP is theology and LP is choice. There may be other differences but it doesn't matter because principle is 100%.
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The American Patriot Party...sounds the best to me too...
but the marijuana party smells the best...ha...ha.
Discover Costa Rica
lol ????/???? or NOTA2008 -
lol
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http://www.dailypaul.com/...