I disagree with the Pope and other church leaders; there is no such thing as a just war!

Read the book, you shall see.
http://www.kingdomnow.org...

However, if you follow Christ, and recieve the Holy Spirit you could say the Kingdom of God Within You.
grant

if the kingdom is within you and not in the heavens well sorry to tell you buddy but thats antichrist.

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___________

Lisa C.

“Elections are short term efforts; revolutions are long term projects.”

--Ron Paul

Join the rEVOLution here: http://www.campaignforlib...

I assume you have not read the book "The Kingdom of God is Within You", since if you had you would know it has nothing to do with the Gnostic belief replacing oneself with Christ, on the contrary, it removes the necessity for having the Church mediate between Christ and oneself. You can't judge a book by it's cover, nor it's title, you should read it first. The beginning is a little difficult as Leo Tolstoy outlines doctrines of other groups who hold the non-violent belief, but later the book gives his teachings and enlightenment on the subject. No where does he promote himself in the place of Christ or that we should.
http://www.kingdomnow.org...

Freedom from slavery or usury is worth fighting for!
Is anyone with me? My God does not want me to be a slave.
If your god wants you to be a slave you'd better find a new one.
Our own American Revolution is a good example of a justified war.
If we can accomplish the constitution mattering again by being peaceful then I am all in;However if they continue to shut us out and ignore (We The People) and our constitution then we will have no choice but to move swiftly and take off the head of the globalist serpent that plagues our once great country.Do any of you have the balls or shall we just wave signs at the Schmucks that are destroying what so many have died to protect?
I hope something gives soon .When will it be too late to do? Is it already too late? How long before foreigners own our entire country?What will it take to stop the demise of our god given rights to be free?Who shall be the soldiers can any of you fight for real? Our Founders would be ashamed of us for what we put up with.The second amendment is what protects all of the others yet it is being eroded everyday and groups like the NRA who used to fight for all gunowners are just fighting for Hunters now? They completely ignored without mention our hero who has no equal in supporting our 2nd amendment rights.We are in much worse shape as a free republic than many can accept.I don't know what the future holds but it is not looking good for freedom and the late great usa.God bless all of you for your efforts in this fight.We must become the the leaders we all are looking for or no-one else will.When people like Dick Cheney and George bush ignore the oath's they took to our constitution and our people then revolution shoul've been happening the next day.They don't give a crap because they know nobody will do a G-DDAAAMMMMNNN thing and they are right.What cowards our country has become it is a crying shame!!!!
I shall go cry now for the loss of our country's warrior spirit.Please someone respond with a hopeful message I am bummed!!!!

Religion has waged war against all who claim to be atheist.

Its safe to say atheist forgive them!

AND THIS IS FOR iehuvihs that says the kingdom is within you:

if that was the truth then that person would be called antichrist.

antichrist

The Antichrist or anti-Christ means a person, office, or group recognized as fulfilling the Biblical prophecies about one who will oppose Christ and substitute himself in Christ's place.
'Antichrist' is translated from the combination of two ancient Greek words. In Greek, means “anointed one” and refers to Jesus Christ. Anti christ means not only anti in the sense of “against” and “opposite of”, but also “in place of". Therefore, an antichrist opposes Christ by substituting himself for Christ.

NO WAY AROUND IT

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The Pope?

"The Pope also found time to bless the U.N. flag."

http://www.infiniteunknow...

"The Pope's comments are of little surprise, given the fact that he has previously called for a "new world order" to combat terrorism, environmental problems, as well as economic imbalances during his Christmas 2005 speech. Pope John Paul II also called for a new world order in a 2004 new years speech. "

http://www.oldthinkernews...

No thanks, Pope.

I'll just leave it at that...

Romans 13 1-4 speaks of princes who have authority, some understand this to mean earthly princes, I don't believe this true, since all "men" are created equal under God.
Furthermore Romans
13 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another. For he that loveth his neighbour hath fulfilled the law.
13 9 For: Thou shalt not commit adultery: Thou shalt not kill: Thou shalt not steal: Thou shalt not bear false witness: Thou shalt not covet. And if there be any other commandment, it is comprised in this word: Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

But rather than go back and forth, you sound interested in the subject and if so I would suggest reading through "The Kingdom of God is Within You" it lays out a very good arguement supporting the doctrine of non-violence.
http://www.kingdomnow.org...

For this reason religion should be a personal relationship with no mediator required other than Christ.

I re-read my comment and it sounded rather harsh...I apologize for any offense I called, not my intention.
If I believed what we call the enlightenment to have been the height of enlightened thinking, I would agree with you...but I don't. In fact, there are many reasons I believe John Locke was a dangerous thinker...for reasons I don't nearly have teh time to go into.
As far as reasoning from experience...I would have to think a little about exactly what I believe in regards to that. But what I intended to convey was that if Jefferson had grown up in the republic he helped found, his attitude toward the church would probably have been far different. But his experience of the Church and State being essentially one and the same oppressor of freedom colored his view of religion.
Thus, his experience trumped his reason which should have told him, it is the abuse by certain people in power within the religion, that is the problem.

It is Romans 13:1-4

Roman 12? I fail to see where it allows nations to raise up the sword.

docholloday...I'm tired of people who are looking for a scapegoat for their frustrations, blaming religion. It is not religion, religion can't kill anyone. IT is people who abuse them. Get your facts straight.
Also, since you seem to be an expert on 18th century thinking, you might inform your readers that this was the height of the enlightenment. The period where anything supernatural, or unexplainable by reason was discarded as foolish. Jefferson, Madison, and Adams, were all jaded by the close ties of the Church of England with the royalty of the nation. The philosophy of the time and their experience produced the quotes you have cited. But again, these were responses to the abuse of religion by people. Furthermore, it is a mistake to allow experience to supercede reason...which ironically, is what happened with Jefferson.
The founders left us a great document, but I for one would never want to live in a world devoid of the unexplainable, how boring would that be?

A man without religion is a man to live without.

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the idea of just war precludes just about any war today, hence the pope is safe in supporting it. When battles could be fought in fields by people who had signed up to defend their country that was one thing. The war ceases to be just when innocent life is taken. WWII, largely thought by many Christians to be just, wasn't even close. And the actions of this country in Nagasaki and Hiroshima were so reprehensible...well, we deserve much in retribution.

But I would like to say to the original poster, the nation/city-state is given the authority to bear the sword in Romans 12. You see, there is a difference between person to person violence (forbidden by Christ), and army to army (not addressed in the gospels, but by St. Paul), at least theologically speaking. Now for me, I have never joined the service because I could not take another life in the name of my country or otherwise, unless it was totally necessary for self-defense, and I think we all agree that the wars of the last 7 years aren't even close to that!!!

The World is divided into armed camps ready to commit genocide just because we can't agree on whose fairy tales to believe.
In the end, Religion will kill us all.
-- Ed Krebs

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution."
--James Madison, American president and political theorist (1751-1836)

" I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature.....Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burned, tortured, fined and imprisoned.
What has been the effect of this coercion?
To make half the world fools and half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the world. "
- Thomas Jefferson

It's downright amazing to see how many people have a direct line to God, yet all receive different messages. - Anon.

"It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so."
-- Robert A. Heinlein

"The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ."
- Thomas Jefferson

"Nothing is more dreaded than the national government meddling with religion."
- John Adams

"I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."
- President George H.W. Bush

"This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it."
-- Adams in The Jefferson-Adams letters

"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to Liberty."
--Thomas Jefferson

http://www.myspace.com/do...
"Doc" Holladay
Nashville, TN

Just War Doctrine, was first enunciated by St. Augustine of Hippo (354-430 AD). How many wars were lead under this doctrine?
Although the Just War Doctrine does outline certain rules of engagement. It is still open to interpretation.
It is great that the Pope recognizes that all the war atrocities committed by the Church were wrong, but by continuing to support the concept of Just War nothing will prevent the Church from making the same mistake again. Not every one in the Catholic Church agrees with the Pope on this issue, not to mention the Church of England, otherwise known as "The Protesting Catholics" many who disagree with the prerequisite interpretation of Just War. The danger lies in the future if the Church is controlled again by the wrong men.
grant

SIERRAHPBT do you think that people from the middle east are anti christ or asian people etc if so then you have created more anti christ / EVIL

if you do not well then you go against the words of your own LORD.

god himself said, to only worship him and no other false idol

I just never understood the 2 way street religion holds in its belly

religion would be great if it did not teach you to see your fellow man in a darker light!

the entire human race is one organism.... religion fights that idea

thats why elite people worship Lucifer, people who worship Lucifer believe they don't need god, because they feel as they are god....

the definition for antichrist is to be god, or be against god ... look it up

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Ron Paul agrees with the Christian theory of just war.. the war has to be purely defensive in nature... I agree with that.. Switzerland comes to mind.. they did not get involved in any world war even they they were centered right in the middle of both world wars.. they would have only fought to protect there own land mass and that is the way the US should be!

as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD

Not that complicated really.

I'm Catholic... I don't know much about theology to know what is right or not, but that's one reason we have a pope...

the pope says war is wrong, and I agree with him (not just because he said so).

I also don't think it's fair to blame Catholics/the Church for the things it has done in the past (crusades, injustice, inquisition, killing, etc.). No one denies that those things were wrong, but using that as an argument is kind of lame. It's like me blaming everyone alive today for slavery, even though none of us were alive then and had nothing to do with it.

My right to protect my child or loved one, is my choice, however I don't believe that if I chose to kill to defend them that it is justified. Likewise if my children are starving death and I steal to feed them, it is my choice, but I don't believe it is justified.
But honestly how many times have you really had to protect your child from death by the use of force that requires you to kill someone?
As Americans how many times have we been told that murder was necessary to protect ourselves and others from evil, and by doing so, how many children of other parents have died? Would not our perceived enemies have the same right and course of action to protect themselves and others from the evil they percieve in us. So then the circle of violence becomes complete.

you forgot to add Cathars who in millions where slain by the Roman Catholic Church(Roman Empire disguised as Church)

this is my tread dealing with religion.
http://www.dailypaul.com/...

I do not know a BUNCH about history, nor Christians, but it seems to me (Crusades, Holy Wars, Hitlers etc.) that regardless or including what Jesus has said, the Christians have many times taken up arms and killed people who did not manage to believe what they did.

Evil does not resolve evil, it only gives birth to it. The sad thing is the very thing that has been put on earth to prevent evil { Religion } may just be the root cause of it.

Hence the reasons why elites want a own world religion.

Imagine if the world had one religion.

Imagine all the wars cause by religion.

Imagine all the harmless humans killed in the name of religion....

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There are many examples of words that have been added to the bible, one more recent one is the use of Capstone in the New International Version, where Capstone replaces the word Cornerstone.
Any "true" mason knows the difference between a Capstone and a Cornerstone...
grant

If you read correctly I did pray for all churches, and I do respect that he doesn't support this war in Iraq and his Pro-life beliefs, but he certainly isn't perfect and I have read a lot of his literature and he does cross the line many times, especially on his writtings refering to justified war, and eventhough he does not claim that this war is justified, he does leave open, as many churches do, the possibility of a justified war. So I will keep praying him on this and many other issues. I would hope he would pray for me as well, since I am not perfect either, and I would hope we would all pray for Satan.

As Mark Twain wrote;
But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?
grant

A sword could be used for many other purposes, protection against wild animals, to cut off the heads of poisonous snakes, if you wish to see justification in the bible for murder, I don't doubt that you will find it. Not to mention all the words that were or have been added to the books of the bible.
You will find a lot in the Old Testament if you are a follower of the laws of Moses, and that is your choice as well.
But doesn't it really boil down to whether or not you truely believe in the true Jesus. Since why would you be afraid to die, as Jesus was not afraid to die when they came to kill him? If you truely believe in the resurection of Christ, and in the authority of our Father, wouldn't you rather chose only peace and love as your way, never bowing to the desire to do the wrong thing, or relying on a sword or gun or government to protect you?
grant
I bow to only one King and Judge.

If every man has the right to have recourse to force in face of a danger threatening another, the question of the use of force is reduced to a question of the definition of danger for another. If my private judgment is to decide the question of what is danger for another, there is no occasion for the use of force that could not be justified on the ground of danger threatening some other man. They killed and burned witches, they killed aristocrats and Girondists, and they killed their enemies, because those who were in authority regarded them as dangerous for the people.

I remember the story in Pennsylvania, in fact a lot of money was raised to give to the families of those killed, the money was refused and instead they gave it to the wife of the Trucker who killed, saying she needed it more than they would.

The purpose for Peter to carry the sword was to teach a lesson, a lesson of non-violence.

Words spoken to Peter when he tried to resist by force evil directed against Jesus (Matt. 26:52). Peter was not defending himself, but his beloved and heavenly Master. And Christ at once reproved him for this, saying, that he who takes up the sword shall perish by the sword.

The purpose for Peter to carry the sword was to teach a lesson, a lesson of non-violence.

Words spoken to Peter when he tried to resist by force evil directed against Jesus (Matt. 26:52). Peter was not defending himself, but his beloved and heavenly Master. And Christ at once reproved him for this, saying, that he who takes up the sword shall perish by the sword.

casa6969 is the war against terany