Answers to Conspiracy Theories... the ball now bounces back
If you are curious and looking for honest answers or replies to Conspiracy Claims, this may be a place to start...
The Left & Populists who distrust government are inclined to fall for this type of fearful "its a Conspiracy!" thinking....when in fact, Beliefs and Self Interest combined with Opportunity, go a long long way in explaining how the world works.
....Conspiracies are "also widespread on the libertarian and populist right, which is scarcely surprising since the United States populist right instinctively mistrusts government to a far greater degree than the left, and matches conspiracies to its demon of preference, whether the Internal Revenue Service, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the United Nations’ black helicopters or the Jews." Read more here:
http://mondediplo.com/200...
SCREW LOOSE CHANGE website! http://screwloosechange.b...
What about JFK? http://mcadams.posc.mu.ed...
Start with Occam's Razor
http://math.ucr.edu/home/...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor
What about Chemtrails??? Yikes! The govt is spraying us!! Well not so fast.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...
NEW! Internet "Echo Chambers" & "Truthiness": An Article from Playboy
http://www.dailypaul.com/...
BOOKS! Here are 3 books that I think are MUST READS....
"Why People Believe Strange Things: Pseudoscience, Superstitions & other Confusions of Our Time" by Michael Shermer
"How We Know What isn't So: The Fallibility of Human Reason in Everyday Life" By Thomas Gilovich.
"Don't Believe Everything You Think: The 6 Basic Mistakes We Make in Thinking" (Paperback)
by Thomas E. Kida
MY OPINION on all the DE-BUNKING going on is...well,....it seems to me that the tennis ball now bounces back over to 9/11 Truthers side of the court. Infact, all Conspiracies should, if they can, return serve back to the De-Bunkers who have done a pretty good job.
Meanwhile, I, Treg, will be in the stands munching my Popcorn and sipping my Soda, cause all of this is getting Very Interesting. Yes we all hate the Military-Industrial-Congressional-Complex, the Washington Welfare-Warfare Party, but lets not "punk' ourselves in the process.
Lets not be an "easy sell" or get "played" or "duped" by conspiracies simply because we already are against "big government".
For those of you who think Zeitgeist is gospel, check out http://conspiracyscience....
In Peace & Liberty,
Treg
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Stop The North American Union Documentary
Stop The North American Union Documentary with special guest ron paul.
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
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Ron Paul Supporter Since 1997
`Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys'
- P.J. O'Rourke –
When you already hate big government....
and YOU REALLY would like to see it shrunk to just its Constitution Functions of Police, Courts, and Military Defense.... its tempting to buy into anti-government Conspiracies.....and its easy to make friends in the Conspiracy Crowd.... its even fun.
So let me make a big confession... I fear that by debunking Conspiracies, I will be taking the Steam out of the Ron Paul Libertarian R3VOLution.
The passionate resistance to Big Government & its Welfare-Warfare Party should come from our principles and libertarian philosophy....just as it does for Dr. Paul, ..... but the Passion seems to be coming from the 9/11 truthers, the Alex Jone's, the Birtchers, the JKF'ers, the Mike Rupperts, etc...... and so..... I worry about taking the steam out of the movement by debunking Conspiracies....
....and I also wonder out loud, can you Conspiracy BELIEVERS be just as passionate libertarians?
Can you advance a positive agenda? Namely... Individual Rights of Mankind being Life, Liberty, & Property, .....that a Free Trading Free Market is a natural result from the respecting the individual rights of others....and most of all, it is the ONLY way to go if we are to advance peacefully as a civilization?
In Peace & Liberty,
Treg
hey treg
what state are you in?
hey treg
what state are you in?
"we're in a race to wake you and others up"
"I worry about taking the steam out of the movement by debunking Conspiracies.... "
now that's funny, thank you!
don't worry everything is fine nothing to see here go back to sleep.....
maybe this guy can wake you up????
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
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Ron Paul Supporter Since 1997
`Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys'
- P.J. O'Rourke –
Great answer Dr Paul
"Its not some sinister conspiracy, its a battle of ideas."
In Peace & Liberty,
Treg
hey treg :)
hey treg, i like you did not want to believe "all this" was true but unfortunately it is.
i think we got you on board with the NAU and hopefully you can see their big plan of a one world government (read the CFR's own papers).
now here...
Take the red pill!
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
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Ron Paul Supporter Since 1997
`Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys'
- P.J. O'Rourke –
Grand Slam!
Bump
More Gems from Occam's Razor
"Occam's razor is often cited in stronger forms than Occam intended, as in the following statements. . ."
"If you have two theories that both explain the observed facts, then you should use the simplest until more evidence comes along"
"The simplest explanation for some phenomenon is more likely to be accurate than more complicated explanations."
"If you have two equally likely solutions to a problem, choose the simplest."
"The explanation requiring the fewest assumptions is most likely to be correct."
. . .or in the only form that takes its own advice. . .
"Keep things simple!"
How simple can it get? Rich men made tons of money on a terrorist attack! Sounds extremely simple and highly plausible.
Let me break it down for you:
Who would profit:
Big Oil: All the nations, families, companies associated, etc.
MIC: GE, Boeing, auto makers, gun makers, ammo makers, etc.
"Professional Investors:" Short stock market with puts, bet on commodities rising, etc.
Security Companies: Makers of tazers, guns, vests, gadgets. Also, personal security companies like the one Rudy Giuliani owns would make a killing (no pun intended).
I could go on and on....
Money makes men do evil things and women do nasty things. Why can't people see the SIMPLE writing on the wall???
It's apart of our history and our future. This wasn't the first time men have killed to get rich and won't be the last....
Anyone to deny the simplicity and the logic of the events of 9/11 should have their heads examined--or read a history book.
Amen
Amen
I can smell the desperation
LOL..
The American Revolution 2.0 will not be televised... It will be downloaded!!!
Some more links on the Boeing 757 hitting the Pentagon
Scroll down to read and view images showing a 757 hit the Pentagon
http://www.abovetopsecret...
Video from Purdue University
http://www.itap.purdue.ed...
and here:
http://wiki.cs.purdue.edu...
In Peace & Liberty,
Treg
here's another one:
http://www.grupo.org/pent...
Looked Like A Global Hawk To Me...
Delegates Tried To Revolt For Freedom !!!
bu bu bu but,,,
...rummy tole me it was a 757...
Delusional?
For anyone to watch the video of the collapse of WTC 7 and claim "shitty design" as a major contributor, they are the ones who are delusional.
Video shows minimal damage to the building due to debris. It also shows very small fires within the building. check some of the pictures of the WTC complex that show the buildings that were severely damaged by falling debris from the towers. Many of them still had a frame standing afterward. And you're going to argue that a building that had minimal damage just all of a sudden collapsed?
Have you ever made spaghetti? Does a spaghetti stick go from being a hard solid to instantly stringy? No. It takes time for the hot water to penetrate it and it eventually gets to a point of being soft. Steel is no different when subjected to heat. It doesn't just all fo a sudden liquify to where it offers no resistance to the load above it. Ask any engineer and they'll tell you the same thing.
I think you're the one who is delusional.
Yo spaghetti man!
Save the silly anaolgies for someone else.
Do some careful research, then think, and then report back to us.
You seem to be the one in
You seem to be the one in need of your own haughty advice.
I hardly think so.
But I do think haughty is a fine word and I appreciate your application. You on the other hand are chock full of hubris. Hubris is another fine word that needs more usage.
Seriuosly, though. I will start watching the "Zero" movie. I may just learn something.
My two cent's worth.
As long as you're wading through links:
http://www.dailypaul.com/...
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Freedom First Society
http://www.freedomfirstso...
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Occam's Razor
I started where you told me to and I had to end there.
"when you have two competing theories that make exactly the same predictions, the simpler one is the better."
1. Men who dwell in caves and read the Koran all day came to America, learned (?) to fly single propeller planes, snorted coke and hung out in strip clubs, then hijacked passenger jets and crashed the majority of them on target, and completely confused NORAD. All because they hated the fact that we are "free" to snort coke and hang out in strip clubs.
OR
2. It was an inside job to reap the profits from war and high commodity prices.
Gee, sounds like you burned yourself with your own post there, clown boy.
The notion is simplest not
The notion is simplest not dumbest. There's a difference.
Yes, there's no argument
Yes, there's no argument it's the simplest and the most logical assumption. Throughout history the average man goes to war, civilians die, and rich men profit handsomely--why is this any different???
Are we such an advanced and civilized group that we can't possible fall victim to it??? LOL!!!
You have to be one dumb @#$%^#% to think we are beyond things like this. Your great great great grandchildren will laugh at how naive you really are. Make sure you write them a letter about how the scary cave people attacked us and stick in a capsule in the ground so they can see just how stupid you are....
I think his answer pointed out the simplest
explanation quite poignantly. But we appreciate the explanation of yourself.
No, my point was I was
No, my point was I was mocking him. He is perverting the notion that is called Occam's Razor and so the statement deserved to be ridiculed.
I perverted the statement?
I perverted the statement?
Explain yourself or feel thy wrath....
Yes, you are a moron. You
Yes, you are a moron. You took the stated idea and misconstrued it to falsely fit your own argument.
Moron? LOL! Internet tough
Moron? LOL! Internet tough guy--I thoroughly disrespect you and despise your weak character.
That said, please explain how I misconstrued anything? The rule stands "Keep it simple!" The theory that the 9/11 Commission Report examines is FAR FAR from simple.
Rich and powerful men made HUGE profits!!! It sounds so simple I'm almost envious....
Oh, BTW, the stock market is just about at the resistance levels from when Bush took office. So, that means, Bush/Cheney came into office, rigged the game, made their friends, families, associates rich, and then are leaving everything almost like it was except for all the death and destruction--oh and a few less banks!!!
Power means POWER, buddy!
Explain? It is simple.
Explain? It is simple. What you are saying is TOO simple. The notion that Occam was expressing was the idea to take ALL the possible variables in a situation and analyze it all so to be able to have a result that is as simple as can be. That doesn't mean infuse a possible idea between x and y so you can say x caused y. There is a difference. Does that help?
Yo Dick Face...
Using Occam's Razor, points clearly that it was an inside job or at the very least knowingly allowed to happen. I would think that Israel profited quite handsomely from the evil deed.
Use YOUR head but in order to do that you will need to unplug it from the MSM's ass.
Really? You are really
Really? You are really responding with the very way of thinking I was mocking and ridiculing. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Men who dwell in caves??
The hijackers did not come from Afghanistan, they only received training there.
To learn about there backgrounds, click on the link.
http://www.debunk911myths...
The Hijackers: Who They Were, Why They Did It
http://www.washingtonpost...
As to the claim they attacked us because America is free or immoral. Here is Osama's reasons why they did it.
Why did we not attack Sweden?
In an Oct. 2004 speech, Osama bin Laden said that Bush is still misleading the American people by not telling us the real reason why al-Qeada attacks us. Bin Laden said that, "contrary to what [President George W.] Bush says and claims -- that we hate freedom --let him tell us then, "Why did we not attack Sweden?" It is known that those who hate freedom don't have souls with integrity, like the souls of those 19. "[The 19 hijackers of 9/11]
Bin Laden is angered by U.S. support for Israel and was angered when America gave permission for Israel to invade Lebanon. He is angered by the injustice and was determinated to punish the transgressors. He decided "we have to punish the transgressor with the same -- and that we had to destroy the towers in America so that they taste what we tasted, and they stop killing our women and children."
Bin Laden says any nation that does not attack them will not be attacked.
continue reading here. Has Osama's speech in 2004.
http://representativepres...
There is no proof they snorted coke. I guess you added that for
the humor of it. As for the strip clubs, 4 out of the 5 hijackers who went to the strip club in Las Vegas were the pilots. A simple explanation for this, considering they were religious, was it was a place to meet to discuss the details of the plot and how the setup for it was going. No one would suspect muslim extremists to be at a strip club, therefore they did not have to worry about people trying to overhear them or contacting the authorities with their suspicions. They were probably paranoid about being caught without accomplishing their mission so they did not want to be in an area where they could be bugged or listened to from a distance by the Feds. A noisy, crowded strip club with a diverse crowd would be a perfect place where they would be comfortable talking.
click on link for article about this.
http://representativepres...
Osama Bin Laden stated that only a select few knew all the details of the plot, and that the rest only knew that they were sent here to carry out a mission. This fits in with the scenario above.
Here is a quote from an article:
"Bin Laden says on the tape that while the hijackers knew they were on a "martyrdom operation," some did not know anything about the plot until just before they boarded the planes. He also says those who were trained to fly didn't know the others."
http://archives.cnn.com/2...
Another explanation for the hijackers going to the strip clubs is that the hijackers' religious beliefs were not the main motivating factor.
Here is an excerpt from The Revolution: A Manifesto page 20:
"When it comes to suicide bombing, I, like many others, always assumed that the driving force behind the practice was Islamic fundamentalism. Promise of instant entry into paradise as a reward for killing infidels was said to explain the suicides. The world's expert on suicide terrorism convinced me to rethink this apparently plausible answer. The University of Chicago's Robert Pape, for his book Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism, collected a database of all 462 suicide terrorist attacks between 1980 and 2004. One thing he found was that religious beliefs were less important as motivating factors than we have believed. The world's leaders in suicide terrorism are actually the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka, a Marxist secular group. The largest Islamic fundamentalist countries have not been responsible for any suicide terrorist attacks. Not one has come from Iran or the Sudan.
The clincher is this: the strongest motivation, according to Pape, is not religion but rather a desire "to compel modern democracies to withdraw military forces from the territory the terrorists view as their homeland." Between 1995 and 2004, the al Queda years, two-thirds of all attacks came from countries where the United States had troops stationed. While al Qaeda terrorists are twice as likely to hail from a country with a strong Wahhabist (radical Islamic) presence, they are ten times as likely to come from a country in which U.S. troops are stationed. Until the U.S. invasion in 2003, Iraq had never had a suicide terrorist attack in its entire territory. Between 1982 and 1986, there were 41 suicide terrorist attacks in Lebanon. Once the U.S., France, and Israel withdrew their forces from Lebanon, there were no more attacks.The reasons the attacks stop, according to Pape, is that the Osama Bin Ladens of the world can no longer inspire potential suicide terrorists, regardless of their religious beliefs.
Pape is convinced after his extensive research that the longer and more extensive the occupation of Muslim territories, the greater the chance of more 9/11-type attacks on the United States.
horatiusatthegate You Are To Funny...
Osama Bin Laden stated that only a select few knew all the details of the plot, and that the rest only knew that they were sent here to carry out a mission. This fits in with the scenario above.
Here is a quote from an article:
"Bin Laden says on the tape that while the hijackers knew they were on a "martyrdom operation," some did not know anything about the plot until just before they boarded the planes. He also says those who were trained to fly didn't know the others."
I guess with all this "evidence" it's exactly why the FBI does not have him listed as wanted for complicity in the 911 attacks on their own website...
All you naysayers are missing a chromosome I think, it's naptime Corky.
Delegates Tried To Revolt For Freedom !!!
You're too funny. Before you insult someone, you should make
sure you know what you're talking about.
People with Down Syndrome have 47 chromosomes.
here is a site, with the info, that should be easy for you to read.
http://kidshealth.org/kid...
As for your statement about OBL not being charged with 9/11, that is a good question. It doesn't prove 9/11 was an inside job though.
here is an article that talks about it.
http://www.washingtonpost...
horatiusatthegate You Got Me On The Chromosome Count
I stand corrected and did know that, it just came out bass akwards.
Would you settle for THC encrusted dendrites as an insult per chance later?
Delegates Revolt For Freedom !!!
ROTF LMFAO
YEAH, and those same Muslims have passports impervious to fire and explosion of planes and demoed buildings that way the FBI would be able to access the real perpetrators with an orgy of evidence.
Cause we all know Muslim Passports are made of the Highest quality paper which cannot by any means be destroyed because of fire.
horatiusatthegate, you are IN DENIAL!!!!
Or really, REALLY TRYING TO BE A DISINFO AGENT.
Oruval, is Ron Paul IN DENIAL or a DISINFO AGENT?
Let me know which one.
You stated "that way the FBI would be able to access the real perpetrators with an orgy of evidence."
Why would the FBI need the 3 passports to access the real perpetrators with an orgy of evidence(as stated by you)?
Here is a section of Wiki, I know it isn't the best source, but it is widely reported that the vast majority of hijackers used their real info. Why wouldn't they just use the hijackers who used their real names to get access to the real perpetrators with an orgy of evidence?
"Minutes after the occurrence of the September 11, militant attacks, the Federal Bureau of Investigation opened the largest FBI investigation in United States history, operation PENTTBOM. The suspects were identified within 72 hours because few made any attempt to disguise their names on flight and credit card records and they were among the few non-U.S. citizens and nearly the only passengers with Arabic names on their flights, enabling the FBI to identify their names and in many cases such details as dates of birth, known, and/or possible residences, visa status, and specific identification of the suspected pilots within hours."
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...
Here is a site to check out, Oruval, concerning the passports surviving the crash. Has several examples of items "miraculously" surviving plane crashes.
http://www.911myths.com/h...
This is from the site:
"Our first reaction is why would they bother? What does it add to the story? There was no need to “plant passports”. We’ve never seen anyone say “they must have been on the planes because look, the NYPD found that passport”. It’s completely unnecessary, and is only ever used as evidence of an “inside job”."
HAHA.
I smell desperation. You want me to believe that a plane crash into a steel framed building which was hot enough to cause that building to collapse a free fall speed would leave a paper passport unscathed even after a monster collapse.
I smell your desperation. Do they have you working over time...lol.
were you at the Rally?
Cuz, the myth that real RP supporters are not truthers just got blown out of the water. Jesse Ventura broke the taboo, and the crowd went wild. If Dr. Paul truly does not believe 9-11 was BS at some level, he was the only person there that felt that way.
TRUTH LIBERATES - so lets investigate. Start with Bush and Cheney on the waterboard, I mean under oath.
Wow
LMAO!
Brilliant.... and funny
Cudos to you BigSurJune
Excellent!
Excellent!
Today is a tough time to be an anti-truther
ever get the feeling the rest of the world is against you?
Live Free or Diebold
"Emergency warning for office wokers'
(NIST WT7).........
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
"Observe the masses,and do the opposite."
Excellent Video! - funny too!
thanks Iron-man01
spread it around
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
Again..
Please submit a link for your degree in architectural design. I will gladly reciprocate with scans of my brother-in-law's double postgraduate degrees from Yale School of Architecture (one of the most prestigious architectural universities in the world) in both Master of Architecture and Master of Environmental Design.
Any degrees drawn in crayon are not accepted, nor are degrees from "Muncie School for Dog Nail Clipping". Accredited universities only, related fields only.
And besides, what do you think would have been different if WTC7 did NOT collapse? Was WTC7 the battle cry as troops entered Iraq & Afghanistan (NO)? Was it the modern-day Alamo (NO)? Were there even any casualties (NO)? Don't conspiracy theories need a friggin reason anymore (NO, what's the point in that)?
Oh wait, you must have seen X-Files where they blew up a building to cover up an alien invasion. That's it, right? Or maybe it was the sound stage for the faked moon landing in WTC7.
Give me a reason to believe you. What was gained by the shadowy figures in the back rooms of the pentagon by bringing WTC7 down? Why does all the video show the top floors warping and collapsing before any of the bottom floors show any fatigue?
Peace out..
First:
Architects do not design the structural members of any building. All of the structural design in a building is the responsibility of the Structural Engineer, i.e. calculations, sizes of structural members, etc. Even though Architects have to know basic structural elements, electrical, and mechanical systems to pass the exams to receive a license...it doesnt matter what your degree is, Architects can not practice out of their respective discipline. Architects design what the building look like (i.e. shape, facade, stories, decorative materials/elements etc.), make sure the building meet codes (i.e. building, accessibility, etc.), designs the interior layout (i.e. locations of restrooms, elevators, stairs, offices, break rooms, materials, etc.), and coordinates with all other disciplines (i.e. Structural, Mechanical, Plumbing, Electrical, etc.) to ensure the design intent is met.
Second:
FACT...the Structural Engineers designed the towers to withstand a fully loaded B-707 commercial airliner (similar in size to the B-767's) crashing into them.
http://community.seattlet...
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FACT...the towers had approx. 200 steel perimeter columns and 50 steel core columns (200,000 tons of steel).
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...
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FACT...according to the building engineers “all the columns on one side of a Tower could be cut, as well as the two corners and some of the columns on each adjacent side, and the building would still be strong enough to withstand a 100-mile-per-hour wind, as well as, “Live oads on these columns can be increased more than 2,000% before failure occurs.” This is called redundancy...
-City in the Sky: The Rise and Fall of the World Trade Center, page 133
-John Skilling, How Columns Will Be Designed for 110-Story Buildings,
Engineering News Record, 4/2/1964
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FACT...steel melts at around 2500 F (1370 C).
http://education.jlab.org...
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FACT...jet fuel is made up of kerosene with an open-air burning temp
of 550 F (288 C). The fires in the WTC Towers were not open air fires.
Whether the fuel burned gradually at a temperature below the burning temp of jet fuel (550 F), or burned rapidly above the burning temp of jet fuel, in neither case would an office building full of spilled jet fuel sustain a fire at 2500 degrees F (1370 C) long enough to melt steel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...
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FACT...the towers were the first steel structures, in 100 years of tall
buildings, to collapse due to fires: (example)
a) 1970, 1 New York Plaza (50-stories) suffered a severe fire and
explosion and lasted for more than 6 hrs, no collapse.
b) 1988, First Intersate Bank building (62-stories) in L.A., burned for
3.5 hrs and no damage to the main structure.
c) 2004, the tallest skyscraper in Caracas, Venezuela experienced a
severe fire which lasted 17 hrs, no collapse.
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FACT...in 1945, a B-25 BOMBER crashed into the Empire State Building (the tallest building before the wtc towers) and did not collapse due to fire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...
"We dare not forget that we are heirs of that first revolution" -JFK
Oh Yes how silly of me!!.................
Well provide us with your brain in a jar so we could inspect it.....To see if you are not insane.........."Give me a reason to believe you".....Hey why don't you just find an abandon building and start a fire and see where that takes you.
(Cheerio)
"Observe the masses,and do the opposite."
great video
it cracks me up.