Agree or disagree? Supporting Barr or/and Baldwin IS supporting the campaign for liberty
Posted June 21st, 2008 by JKap
output
Since there is so much debate about supporting another candidate for President who is not Ron Paul, I just wanted to ask for everyone's opinion if you agree or disagree with the statement made on another thread by "Justcantgetenough".
On June 21st, 2008 Justcantgetenough says:
[Supporting] Barr or/and Baldwin IS supporting the campaign for liberty.
If you don't realize that, you don't understand what the campaign for liberty is about.
**************
[...](9/11 "Truthers": Please don't support Barr. You'll hurt his public image and cost him support and votes, like you did to Dr. Paul).
I disagree. I think that supporting Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty is supporting Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty--and supporting Barr's or Baldwin's campaigns is supporting Barr's or Baldwin's campaigns. But I could be wrong here in 1984.
Perhaps Dr. Paul should trademark "Campaign for Liberty".
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Update 1: I just wanted to add an observation of the cognitive dissonance that this debate has inspired in some of us. Witness the remarks of "wninja" on another thread:
Yes it is "Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty" but it is not "Ron Paul's"-"Campaign for Liberty"
Update 2: I want to encourage everyone, if you have the means, to financially support the Ron Paul Campaign for Liberty with your generous donation today. Maybe we should make a money bomb for this. How about sometime in early July?
Update 3: Join the discussion for the Ron Paul Campaign for Liberty Money Bomb here.
Update 4: Why should these seperate things be conflated? If someone believes that their particular candidate or cause is in line with the Ron Paul Campaign for Liberty, then why not just demonstrate it and let the actions speaks for themselves? Instead we have to have this sophomoric debate about whether they are in fact the same thing, when clearly to any rational observer they are separate entities.
For example, according to campaign laws, the Ron Paul Campaign for Liberty is a seperate legal entity from Bob Barr's Presidential campaign. That's just a fact.
Why not simply support the Ron Paul Campaign for Liberty financially and by joining and encouraging others to do so? That certainly does not preclude supporting a 3rd party candidate or another related or unrelated cause.
Is supporting the Republican National Committee the same thing as supporting Ron Paul for Congress when they tried to run a neocon against him in the primary?
Ron Paul is a Republican. Is supporting the Republican National Committee the same thing as supporting the Ron Paul Campaign for Liberty?
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My take is that I have
My take is that I have serious reservations about Barr for his changes in stance, but at least they have been changes in the right direction. I'd like to see him poll well to keep the heat on McCain. I'd like to see him get at least 15% to be in the debates, so that a more pro-liberty message is heard, even if it is not as ideal as Ron's message.
I think supporting Barr, Baldwin, Paul and other pro-liberty candidates raises awareness of the Constitution in general, so I think that helps the campaign for liberty. I'm just afraid of the movement becoming too splintered. Every group ends up with factions that are in opposition. Look how divisive the abortion issue has been with respect to the LP for example. We need to unite around freedom and save our petty differences until after we have taken our Republic back.
Well said
All points are moot if we don't restore the Republic.
From the American Freedom Agenda who sponsors the legislation presented to Congress by Paul - (the American Freedom Agenda Act)
The American Freedom Agenda’s (AFA) mission is twofold: the enactment of a cluster of statutes that would restore the Constitution’s checks and balances as enshrined by the Founding Fathers; and, making the subject a staple of political campaigns and of foremost concern to Members of Congress and to voters and educators. Especially since 9/11, the executive branch has chronically usurped legislative or judicial power, and has repeatedly claimed that the President is the law. The constitutional grievances against the White House are chilling, reminiscent of the kingly abuses that provoked the Declaration of Independence.
The 10-point American Freedom Agenda would work to restore the roles of Congress and the federal judiciary to prevent such abuses of power and protect against injustices that are the signature of civilized nations. In particular, the American Freedom Agenda would:
* Prohibit military commissions whose verdicts are suspect except in places of active hostilities where a battlefield tribunal is necessary to obtain fresh testimony or to prevent anarchy;
* Prohibit the use of secret evidence or evidence obtained by torture or coercion in military or civilian tribunals;
* Prohibit the detention of American citizens as unlawful enemy combatants without proof of criminal activity on the President’s say-so;
* Restore habeas corpus for alleged alien enemy combatants, i.e., non-citizens who have allegedly participated in active hostilities against the United States, to protect the innocent;
* Prohibit the National Security Agency from intercepting phone conversations or emails or breaking and entering homes on the President’s say-so in violation of federal law;
* Empower the House of Representatives and the Senate collectively to challenge in the Supreme Court the constitutionality of signing statements that declare the intent of the President to disregard duly enacted provisions of bills he has signed into law because he maintains they are unconstitutional;
* Prohibit the executive from invoking the state secrets privilege to deny justice to victims of constitutional violations perpetrated by government officers or agents; and, establish legislative-executive committees in the House and Senate to adjudicate the withholding of information from Congress based on executive privilege that obstructs oversight and government in the sunshine;
* Prohibit the President from kidnapping, detaining, and torturing persons abroad in collaboration with foreign governments;
* Amend the Espionage Act to permit journalists to report on classified national security matters without fear of prosecution; and;
* Prohibit the listing of individuals or organizations with a presence in the United States as global terrorists or global terrorist organizations based on secret evidence.
Bob Barr is on the counsel which put this together. Here is Bob Barr the Bruce Fein discussing American Freedom Agenda policy. http://fora.tv/2007/07/31...
Commission on Presidential Debates - http://www.debates.org/pa...
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocrac...
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
Black Box Voting - http://www.blackboxvoting...
Thank you
Thank you wninja, NCFREE, and Zak Carter for your excellent responses to my post below ("What Gives Me Pause"). They were very informative and help me feel better about the Barr candidacy. If anyone has not read them, please do as they help explain some of his background and history with the Ron Paul movement in particular. I will continue to watch both he and Baldwin carefully as we approach November.
This is the kind of debate that we really need on DailyPaul: fair, informative, and civil. Thanks again.
Divisive troll (usually) JKap actually HAS A POINT
...sort of.
He makes some valid arguments, but still manages to get it wrong. Right off the bat I'll concede that there's nothing particularly divisive or inappropriate about JKap's post here. He's managed to "clean up nice," as they'd say. But I think this is just putting lipstick on the pig. On far too many occasions, JKap has spewed vile, absurd rhetoric at fellow Paul supporters for the wrong reasons. He has a long way to go before I'll consider him a positive influence on this movement. But this is a step in the right direction. Perhaps an apology to those he has viciously attacked without legitimate cause would further alleviate my concerns.
First, let's look at where we agree:
1. JKap argues that supporting Barr or Baldwin is not supporting Paul. I agree with the literal statement he makes, though I disagree with the implication. Sure, supporting Barr is not a support of Paul. Ditto for Baldwin. But, and here's the important part: supporting Paul and supporting Barr/Baldwin are NOT mutually exclusive concepts.
Duh, sending money to Barr or voting for Baldwin doesn't mean you've supported Ron Paul. But you haven't betrayed him either.
2. I agree that there is too much promotion of Barr/Baldwin on the DailyPaul. I'm not calling for a ban. And I don't think an occasional mention is inappropriate. If there's a big story that should be linked to, that's fine. Heck, we have completely unrelated Keith Olbermann, chemtrails, truther, etc., threads on here. And we have lots of threads about other candidates for lower office (often misleadingly titled with absurd names like "Ron Paul Jr. wins!"). An occasional thread about Barr or Baldwin, when there's legitimate news, is OK. But just because they have a position on Issue X, which is being discussed, isn't cause for a thread. Nor is an appearance on some local radio show, or even on a cable news network (unless something major is unveiled). Think of it like we (the moderates) think of the Digg campaigns. When something is IMPORTANT, Digg it. But trying to Digg up 10+ Ron Paul stories a week just makes us look bad, and brings out the Bury Brigade. The same concept is happening with those who are overly zealous in their support of Barr/Baldwin. Oh, before I forget: the pro-Barr and pro-Baldwin SIGNATURES are inappropriate, in my eyes. They turn every one of your forum comments into propaganda. Not cool. If Paul officially endorses a candidate and you want to pimp for them, have at it. But given the uncomfortable nature of this schism it's unwise to have Barr and Baldwin signatures. The same goes for hateful signatures, like JKap's, that don't just oppose these candidates but throw loaded bombs at them like "ex-CIA neocon."
3. JKap writes: "If someone believes that their particular candidate or cause is in line with the Ron Paul Campaign for Liberty, then why not just demonstrate it and let the actions speaks for themselves? Instead we have to have this sophomoric debate..." Very true. And you're part of that sophomoric debate.
Disagreements
JKap writes (continuation of previous quote): "...Instead we have to have this sophomoric debate about whether they are in fact the same thing, when clearly to any rational observer they are separate entities." I already covered this in #1 under "agree," so I'll be brief. You're technically and literally correct but this could easily be viewed as a subtle jab that Barr/Baldwin supporters are betrayers, especially given your history of absurd and vicious attacks. Heck, I'm NOT supporting anyone but Ron Paul right now (though I reserve the right to support someone else and it will not make me a "quitter"). I merely started a thread to try to reduce tension and division and you called me a "troll," "a bad version of Laurel and Hardy or Abbott and Costello," a "Barr disnfo troll," a "paid disinfo troll," and more.
Now, don't get me wrong. The "offense" I take over these comments is less significant than how asinine you look. You look like a complete ass when you spew out nonsense like that, and I hope you've grown to realize that. I hope you'll have the decency to apologize for overreacting and libeling people who are on your side. If you're not ready to turn over a new leaf and leave the old "JKap" behind, then you're NOT an asset to this movement. Tin-foil-hat comments like that, calling people you disagree with "paid disinfo trolls," etc., will make us ALL look bad. Heck, if there's a disinfo troll causing damage to the movement, he's more likely to take your form than any other.
Look, I'm not trying to be harsh. The past is the past. Hopefully you're gaining some perspective so there's no reason to beat the dead horse that is your record too long. But letting things go requires that you make an effort to change, as well. I'd start with reaching out, move on to deleting your signature, and take it from there.
OF COURSE...
supporting either of these candidates IS supporting The Campaign for Liberty. They are both liberty minded candidates, yet they have both made mistakes. However, Bob Barr's mistakes may be more evident. The difference is Bob Barr has a lot better chance of being on the ballet in every state (except Oklahoma). Whereas Chuck Baldwin may have a harder time making a major impact due to bull@#$& ballet restrictions. They are both worth looking at......because of thier limited government messages they send to the 2 main parties. That is all I need to know!!
.
Baldwin = Yes.
Bob "Patriot Act" Barr = NO.
Patriot Act
When are you people going to wake up and drop the whole "Bob Barr voted for the patriot act" gig. It is getting old harping on it constently!! There are a lot more members of congress that voted for the act....not just Bob Barr. However not one of them is willing to make things right by admitting thier mistake and working hard to undue it!!! Why can't you people see that BB is not the enemy??
He may or may not be the
He may or may not be the enemy.
But his record speaks for itself. When Liberty was under siege, Bob Barr loaded his musket...and shot the Founders in the back.
I can forgive it, I think, but there's no way I'd VOTE for him. I'm not a lunatic. It makes no sense. You wouldn't choose someone who fragged his own troops to be your general, would you?
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
I guess I just don't have that
much anemosity built up. I hate the patriot act and how it has raped us of our liberties. However, anyone that speaks out against it TODAY, is someone I would consider voting for.
Yes, the Patriot Act.
Your questions are like a lightning rod to me. For the past few months, passionate Barr supporters have bombarded this site with calls for all to support him. It seemed others, including myself, replied that supporting Barr was a no go, because of the Patriot Act. Personally you all wore me down and I quit replying. I basically came to the point of just ignoring ALL Bob Barr posts. However, I in no way have changed my viewpoint in regard to Barr.
Evidently, we are coming from opposite ends of what each us of us holds to be true. For me, our Freedoms are sacred. Many times we see a post here asking each of us to list 3 reasons why we support Ron Paul. Invariably, Freedom is almost always listed.
I also consider our current Congress and this administration. Our rights have been under assault like never before. It is finally time to say enough is enough. If I support or vote for any elected official who has voted in any way to violate my rights, then I am just as guilty. Therefore a vote for Bob Barr, to me anyway, makes you complicit in his betrayal.
You argue that just because Bob Barr regrets his vote in favor of the Patriot Act, we should forget that. I can forget many things. But how can Liberty loving people ignore what we hold most dear?
I am a passionate Freedom supporter..
I am not a passionate Bob Barr supporter, however I know who & what you are talking about. I am just saying that polititions are human too. I have made mistakes. I am 26 years old, so the first vote I cast in 2004 was for GWB. Talk about a mistake. I am now trying to learn from my mistake and fix things. I am doing this by campaigning hard for Dr. Paul during primary season. Now I am campaigning and donating what I can to all Liberty minded candidates. That includes Barr. I am very much a Liberty loving American! Yet, indirectly I supported the patriot act by voting for such an aweful administration. I was more concerned about what beer I was going to drink Friday "Keystone Light" or "Miller High Life" rather than freedom or politics. I was also very much brainwashed in believing "We must kill the Terrorists". Well, now I have grown and have gone far away from the Neo-cons. So has Bob Barr....why would I have any right to judge his mistake and not believe that he will fight for justice and liberty, when I am imperfect to the freedom cause as well??
Very nice.
I can relate. I was also a former sheeple club member. I learn more and more every day, not only from Ron Paul, but from people like you here on dailypaul.
Thank You
I've been asking the same question for weeks...
Ron Paul...
Has called Bob Barr a friend, and thats enough for me.
What Gives Me Pause
There are a few things that concern me about Barr (in no particular order):
* He has been promoted in mainstream media -- as I don't trust them, this makes me a little suspicious.
* He makes no mention of Ron Paul. This in contrast to Baldwin who continues to promote Ron Paul even in the midst of his own campaign.
* He was not actively involved in promoting Ron Paul's campaign when his support might have helped.
* His conversion, even if genuine, is fairly recent.
I cannot come to a conclusion on Barr yet, but these things give me pause regarding him. It would not surprise me in the least for the "powers that be" to push forward a candidate that at least appears to be a Libertarian to try to split the Ron Paul vote -- BUT it is very possible that Barr is simply another freedom loving candidate who has been caught up in the awakening that Ron Paul has started. I guess I have been lied to for so long that I am leery of anything that looks too convenient.
I will be watching Barr closely as I continue to pray that the light of truth is shown on our nation. If Barr is false, his lies will find him out, and if he is true, he will come shining through.
* He has been promoted in
The more that Baldwin's name is pushed in the media the more the media will promote Barr. They don't really want us consolidating our support right now and this is all they have to work with to divide us. In the end it will only backfire and make us stronger.
Bob Barr Biography (from American Freedom Agenda - http://www.americanfreedo... )
Bob Barr represented the 7th District of Georgia in the U. S. House of Representatives from 1995 to 2003, serving as a senior member of the Judiciary Committee, as Vice-Chairman of the Government Reform Committee, and as a member of the Committee on Financial Services.
Bob Barr occupies the 21st Century Liberties Chair for Freedom and Privacy at the American Conservative Union, and serves as a Board Member of the National Rifle Association. He serves as the Chairman of Patriots to Restore Checks and Balances, and provides advice to several organizations, including consulting on privacy issues with the ACLU, serving as the Chair for Youth Leadership Training at the Leadership Institute in Arlington, Virginia, and as a member of The Constitution Project’s Initiative on Liberty and Security, based at Georgetown University's Public Policy Institute. Bob served as a Member of the Long-Term Strategy Project for Preserving Security and Democratic Norms in the War on Terrorism, at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University from 2003 to 2005. Recognizing Bob Barr’s leadership in privacy matters, New York Times columnist William Safire has called him “Mr. Privacy.”
Bob has appeared on virtually every major cable and network television program dealing with public policy matters, and has served as a contributor for CNN. He writes a regular column for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, and has also hosted a nationally-syndicated weekly radio show, "Bob Barr's Laws of the Universe." Bob is a Contributing Editor for The American Spectator, and his writings have appeared in numerous academic, local, regional, and national publications. Bob is the author of “The Meaning of Is, The Squandered Impeachment And Wasted Legacy of William Jefferson Clinton,” published by Stroud & Hall, and available from Amazon.com. Bob also serves on the Board of Advisors for the Georgetown Journal of Law and Public Policy.
Bob is President and CEO of Liberty Strategies, LLC, a public policy consulting firm headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia, but with offices also in the Washington, D.C. area.
Bob was appointed by President Reagan to serve as the United States Attorney for the Northern District of Georgia (1986-90), and served as President of Southeastern Legal Foundation (1990-91). He was an official with the CIA (1971-78), and practiced law for many years. He currently serves Of Counsel with the Law Offices of Edwin Marger, with a national and international practice in both civil and criminal law.
Bob Barr has traveled widely and spoken to audiences across America and internationally, and has served as an official member of the U.S. delegation at five major United Nations conferences. While in the Congress, he led congressional fact-finding trips to other countries and regions, investigating terrorism, international crime and drug trafficking. He speaks to local and national groups on a regular basis and is affiliated with one of the largest agencies specializing in professional speaking engagements, Keppler Speakers (http://www.kepplerspeaker...).
Commission on Presidential Debates - http://www.debates.org/pa...
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocrac...
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
Black Box Voting - http://www.blackboxvoting...
Answers about Barr..
I am not trying to convince people to vote for Barr at all. To answer your questions:
* he has been in the media in the same way that Dr. Paul was. The media would bring Paul on for ratings. Most RP supporters are very big into politics. When he was on the air people tuned in. It is the same thing with Barr. He still does not come close to having the attention that Obama & McCain get. If you go on presidential poll sites his name does not show up on almost all of them.
* If you look at his web site, there is a lot of mention of Ron Paul. He talks very highly of RP. In fact he tried to get RP to be the libertarian candidate.
* He talked very highly of Ron Paul when he introduced him to speek on CSPAN (forgive me I forgot what the conference was called). It was basically an endorcment.
* His conversion comes at a time when a lot of people are making conversions due to the horrific Bush administration. There has been a huge awakening in the past couple years for a lot of people.
In the end it is your decision who to support (if anyone). Just know that there are some good polititions in this country, although very few...with our help the good ones will eventually suceed.
Not only did he support him with cash...
But Bob Barr tried to draft Ron Paul to run on the Libertarian ticket. His introduction of RP to CPAC was glowing, and by far the best speach of the event..and his conversion happened years before mine did, he has been working with the ACLU and the Marijuana Policy Project to correct the wrongs of his past - So yes - I believe he is genuine, and I support him and Mr. Baldwin in the advancement of liberty.
Suported Ron Paul and a
Suported Ron Paul and a member of the Campaign for Liberty. Now suporting Chuck Baldwin for President. Chuck shows consistency over the years similar to Ron. I am voting principle over every thing else. No lesser of two evils this time.
Agreed
I have been very impressed with Baldwin's speeches and even his current campaign. They have made some brilliant moves, in my opinion, but setting up their national headquarters in Grand Rapids, MI. Our state has been ignored and damaged by both parties and is in a serious depression. Grand Rapids is not a large city, but it is the bastion of conservatism in the state. He got a lot of free press, and has a good shot to make serious inroads with Republicans here.
Furthermore, he has tailored Ron Paul's message for the mainstream by focusing on NAFTA, the UN, and bringing back manufacturing to America (by enacting balanced trade). Inflation, while certainly essential, doesn't mean much to the mainstream American who just wants to know that they will be able to pay the bills at the end of the month. This is one area where I think Ron Paul's campaign could have used some work. Baldwin seems to understand what parts of the overall message people will be most likely to respond to.
Anyway, I too plan on voting for Baldwin if Ron Paul is not on the ballot come November.
Was an Early Supporter of Ron Paul, Now I am Supporting Bob Barr
I am happy to say I was an early supporter of Ron Paul and sent him a contribution as soon as I heard that he was going to explore the possibility of running for the Republican Presidential nomination. My contribution was the 18th one he received. Now I am glad that we have a voice for liberty that is going to be on 49 or 50 state ballots for President -- the Libertarian Party candidate, Bob Barr. His views have changed over the last five years and all for the better! He is a very effective communicator and is getting much media attention and interviews on radio and TV. I have sent Bob Barr the maximum contribution and am happy that I will be able to vote for a candidate that is speaking out for the US Constitution, peace, prosperity and individual liberty. Congressman Paul ran the first lap of this relay race and I am supporting Bob Barr run the next lap. We can make a difference and win this. See his website: www.bobbarr2008.com
Only Ron Paul
Ron Paul is the only person I have ever seen in my lifetime who could have brought together the Constitution Party, Libertarians and Greens. The Republicans missed their chance so that could look like "Barney Bad Ass" and be war hawks for a unpopular war.
R = Retarded
Either OR...
I will likely vote for Baldwin... Primarily because Dr. Paul suggested against writing in his name, as being ineffective... (I didn't get the "memo" this this restriction of my voting rights was taking place...) I do not agree with Baldwin on everything by any means... However, when it comes to liberty, I like him better. That is all...
Why Baldwin? Barr voted for the Patriot act. That is the deal killer for me. (Your vote is yours, I am just explaining mine.)
Point of reference... I am not an evangelical, and do not consider myself a Christian... (A follower of christ? Perhaps...)
But, I strongly suggest you Pick your poison between the two... Why?
Can we agree NEITHER is going to get elected? If so... Then if the combined total of BOTH of them (who have widespread ballot access) is high enough, both the gop and the dems will stand up and notice... Especially if the loser of the two fascist parties only loses by the margin of the LP and the CP combined...
Thus it furthers the Campaign for Freedom and our attempt (spearheaded by Dr. Paul) to reclaim the GOP...
Cheers all --
well said
my feelings exactly...
I'm choosing the alternative of voting for the best candidate...
...as Ron Paul mentioned that his supporters could do--write-in Ron Paul.
There's no guarantee that a vote for Barr or Baldwin (or any other ballot-qualified candidate) will be counted in secret anyway. I hope my write-in vote shuts-down their whole black-box electronic balloting/"counting" proprietary software systems.
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Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty Money Bomb!
“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." -John Quincy Adams
I like Unicorns! Commission
Commission on Presidential Debates - http://www.debates.org/pa...
National Ballot Access - http://www.directdemocrac...
Voters for none of the above - http://nota.org/
Black Box Voting - http://www.blackboxvoting...
are coalitions between minor parties possible in the US?
Here in Canada minority parties can get together and control the government by forning a coalition and votring as a block. When ti happens It can be the best government because the minority views get heard.
Can this happen in your Senate or House? I understand that you can only get rid of the president by impeachment.
BTW we do not vote for the Prime Minster but for the party here. The government can be voted out at any time by a majority of members of Parliament so the minorities working together with elected members can have power. It is one of the okay things about our system.
third parties
Would be great if all third parties in the US would come together under one umbrella party. The goal would be to take power from the two big parties. The different issues can be worked out from within.
I think we should!
I think its in all of our best interests to support the candidate which reflects the core of our values that can be voted for all across the country in order to have our core beliefs widely disseminated and recognized.
Interesting post
Barr voted for the Patriot Act. Nuff said on that. Don't know much about Baldwin, but Ron's got to endorse him for me to consider it. Barr is a wolf in sheep's clothing, and could destroy the Libertarian Party by the end of all this. I think there's not a lot of options if you don't think outside of the box. My vote doesn't go to anyone by default, this country is too important for me to do that
your right...
because Ron Paul calls Bob Barr his friend and said he would like to see him do very well in his campaign for President. So if your statement is true then I guess you believe Ron Paul is also a wolf in sheep's clothing trying to "destroy" the Libertarian Party. Think about your statement. I also find it hard to believe that RP is not smart enough to know who his friends and enemies are!!
You
forget to mention he originally resisted voting for the Patriot Act, only voted for it under the false pretenses from some in the party and to negotiate limits. Barr has been actively fighting the Patriot Act 1 & 2 actively for the past 5 years.
Barr and Baldwin's personal positions are quite close.
You have to decide yourself whether you will vote for Barr or Baldwin. You are older as 18, thus mature to make up your own mind. Dr. Paul has effectively rooted for both Barr and Baldwin and came as close to an endorsement of both as he can. Frankly, you cannot expect him to make a choice between the two of them, both are friends and he value them and he also would not be allowed to endorse a third party without ramifications for his position in congress.
Strategically it would also be the best for him not to endorse, as then he has the moral ability and high ground to lead the GOP to the right direction. If he endorse say Barr, and the (false) impression would be that Barr caused the loss of McCain, the GOP will not only blame Barr, they will blame Paul as well
and thus limit his influence in the GOP. We can rest assured that Paul, Barr and Baldwin win for the same ideals in different parties. They will unity in the same party over time: either the GOP move in the right direction and Barr and Baldwin rejoin the GOP, or if not, Paul can start a new party with his friends in congress, together with some in the LP and the CP :-)
Ron Paul...
or Baldwin if Paul endorses him.
ron paul is getting my vote
no matter what
Support
We need to continue to make ron paul our main priority. If in november we have to vote third party then we will it only takes 30 seconds to decide that. But right now continue our efforts for ron paul. And if we have too then i say vote Baldwin. The media was so reluctant to give Dr. Paul coverage but as soon as Barr runs they are glad to have him on. That right there is to fishy. They havent had Baldwin on any major news stations, they treat him like they did Paul. Not to mention Baldwin is a key speaker along with Paul at the july 12 rally.
LOL. How STUPID!
Because someone gets less news coverage than someone else, that indicates to you that the media is trying to cover him up?
If that's the case, then you should have been supporting Alan Keyes. Keyes was only allowed in one televised debate and they hardly ever talked about him in the news. Or about Duncan Hunter? He got less coverage than Dr. Paul too.
Drop the conspiracy theory crap. The news covers people in proportion to how well they are polling.
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Bob Barr Money Bombs July 2: www.BarrBomb.com and July 4 www.BobBarrMoneyBomb.com Help continue propagating the Revolutionary message of liberty. (9/11 "Truthers": Please don't support Barr. You'll hurt his public image and cost him support and votes, like you did to Dr. Paul).
Advice from yourself
That one hit close to home didn't it? You know I'm right and you're in denial. This is why you exploded like that. Calm down dont get mad because im pointing out Barrs flaws
You stupid fucking troll!
You stupid fucking troll! Now I KNOW you are just our old "friend" OneVoiceof(T)Reason, who incessantly used this EXACT same argument to vehemently deny that Ron Paul was effectively silenced by the Lamestream Media.
Oh you worthless piece of shit!
Wow. What a reaction!
That one hit close to home didn't it? You know I'm right and you're in denial. This is why you exploded like that. All this time you've tried to convince yourself that Dr. Paul was getting less attention that the frontrunners because of his views and that there was some kind of conspiracy to keep him out of the news, but in actuality it was simply because he was polling in the single digits for most of the campaign. You don't have to be honest to me, but you should be honest to yourself. It's time.
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Bob Barr Money Bombs July 2: www.BarrBomb.com and July 4 www.BobBarrMoneyBomb.com Help continue propagating the Revolutionary message of liberty. (9/11 "Truthers": Please don't support Barr. You'll hurt his public image and cost him support and votes, like you did to Dr. Paul).
Hey there,
Hey there, JustCan'tLieEnough, I have some prolapsed hemmorhoids that are all inflamed and irritated --- how about coming over and caressing them with your tongue and making them feel better? Make yourself useful for once.
You gay?
That's ok, if you are. I have nothing against homosexuality. If you're not, you probably have latent homosexual desires. Statements like that come from latent homosexuality or bisexuality, is what I learned in psychology class. It comes out like that (sexual domination role) when you're upset and want to offend someone, because you're repressing it.
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Bob Barr Money Bombs July 2: www.BarrBomb.com and July 4 www.BobBarrMoneyBomb.com Help continue propagating the Revolutionary message of liberty. (9/11 "Truthers": Please don't support Barr. You'll hurt his public image and cost him support and votes, like you did to Dr. Paul).
Nice
A little underhanded bigotry from the Daily Troll.
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Support Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty!
“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." -John Quincy Adams
Not bigotry.
I was just trying to help him. He's probably struggling with this.
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Bob Barr Money Bombs July 2: www.BarrBomb.com and July 4 www.BobBarrMoneyBomb.com Help continue propagating the Revolutionary message of liberty. (9/11 "Truthers": Please don't support Barr. You'll hurt his public image and cost him support and votes, like you did to Dr. Paul).
Sick
Barr eats cheese made from womens breast milk so he isnt getting my vote, thats gross.
Oh, Behave!
Actually, I believe I have repressed bestial tendencies --- and you're looking pretty good right now, JustCan'tBendOverFarEnough! I mean, we all already know that you're a sheep, from everything you have said here.
Baaahhhhh!
Stop feeding him.
Then again I can't say that I am not keeping the little SOB fed. Ignore the troll and he will starve.
True, but starvation is
True, but starvation is slow, whereas murder is quick! I wish I could just take a (metaphorical) chainsaw to his sorry troll ass and be done with him once and for all.
"That which you resist, persists."
"That which you resist, persists." -Carl Jung
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Bob Barr Money Bombs July 2: www.BarrBomb.com and July 4 www.BobBarrMoneyBomb.com Help continue propagating the Revolutionary message of liberty. (9/11 "Truthers": Please don't support Barr. You'll hurt his public image and cost him support and votes, like you did to Dr. Paul).
Stupid conspiracy kooks. tsk
Stupid conspiracy kooks. tsk tsk tsk...
I want to encourage everyone
I want to encourage everyone, if you have the means, to financially support the Ron Paul Campaign for Liberty with your generous donation today. Maybe we should make a money bomb for this. How about sometime in early July?
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Support Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty!
“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." -John Quincy Adams