Chuck Baldwin and the great Nancy conspiracy
Posted June 25th, 2008 by ironman77
output
Chuck Baldwin writes:
(http://www.vdare.com/bald... )
That being said, it behooves me to address the underlying problem behind the Larry Craig scandal. The real problem that this scandal unearths is the widespread influence that homosexuality has within the GOP. Ladies and Gentlemen, the GOP elephant is not red; it is pink. That is a fact that rank and file conservatives within the GOP either don't know or don't want to know. But it is getting harder and harder to keep that fact a secret. . . . .
. . . . Stang also reminds readers that President G.W. Bush was "a member of Skull & Bones at Yale, which apparently involves bizarre, secret sex rituals including coffins. He has visited the Bohemian Grove in northern California, the site of other secret sex rituals."
Should we be surprised, therefore, that despite campaigning as a born again Christian, President Bush has not repealed a single pro-homosexual Executive Order given by President Bill Clinton or that he has appointed as many (if not more) openly gay men to high government positions as did Bill Clinton? The list includes high profile homosexuals such as Paul Cellucci, Michael Guest, Stephen Herbits, Scott Evertz, Mark Dybul, Israel Hernandez, Joseph O'Neill, Arthur James Collingsworth, and on and on. According to Stang, "He [Bush] has given organized sodomy considerable control over the federal government."
- How does this square with Ron Paul -
“we don't get our rights because we are “gay or women or minorities”, we get our rights as indiviuals”
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Wow. Baldwin had my vote until I read this.
I guess I'm voting for Barr now.
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"We will never give up. We will never give in." - Dr. Ron Paul
Homosexuality has been shown
Homosexuality has been shown to be a genetic defect in sheep that was able to be cured. Whether gay folks want that for themselves is up to them. I don't want the government involved in that sort of decision and I think it's wrong for people to try to ostracize them based on the way they were born. We are all individuals with rights given to us by a Creator. Gay people have every right to be representatives just as anyone else does. To say counter to that goes against everything Ron Paul stands for.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with..
this article. Chuck Baldwin makes an excellent point which needed to be stated and desperately needs to be addressed. There is indeed a "homosexual" agenda. And it needs to be stopped. This homosexual agenda goes hand in hand with the NWO. Baldwin is right in this articles because he says that the GOP pretends to be "christian" and pro-family values... but they are not. Just like they pretend to be conservatives... but they are not. Baldwin is open and honest in this article and that is more than you can say about all the other candidates, except for Ron Paul of course. We should support him.
Semper Fortis
I suppose he is honest
But as far as intelligent, and well informed - I think not so much.
Geez, Louise...
is he protesting too much??
Get a life Baldwin supporters
Is this movement seriously filled with backwards thinking moralists who believe homosexuality is a "choice," when it is actually a hormone imbalance? Who would choose to be gay? We live in a country where teenagers jump off of cliffs because they are gay and they've been taught by a cruel society that something is horribly wrong with them. Get a life. Let people love each other. All the hate that is spewn in the name of God is what's truly evil. Hey Sierra, there's a church you might like it's called God Hates Fags, you'd fit right in.
Whenever "A" attempts by law to impose his moral standard upon "B," "A" is most likely a scoundrel. - H.L. Mencken
When fascism comes it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross!
Right on, brother.
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"We will never give up. We will never give in." - Dr. Ron Paul
Homosexualtiy
I don't really want to start a debate, but I wanted to respond to your questions. First, I do believe that homosexuality is wrong as the Bible clearly states that it is a sin. I also understand that people may have a genetic disposition toward the practice. However, the same can be said of many other bad behaviors from alcoholism to having a bad temper to a predisposition to become obsessive in computer gaming. Even though someone may be predisposed toward a particular act, they should still refrain. Someone predisposed toward alcoholism who does not wish to fall victim to the vice will go to great lengths to avoid getting near alcoholic beverages or in situations that would put them in temptations way. The same could be done for someone predisposed toward homosexuality. There is always a choice.
That being said, I think that the rise in homosexuality in our country is indicative of the decline of America as opposed to the source of the problem, and homosexuality is by no means the only sign of decay. Rising divorce rates, violent crimes, cheating on tests, and acceptance of lies and deceit are among many examples of a broad-based moral decline. I believe that singling out homosexuals and not addressing these other critical issues (many of which are very prevalent even among regular church goers) is very wrong. We need to change the moral fabric of our culture and that goes far beyond just someone's sexual orientation. In many ways, I see homosexuality as our current scapegoat. We can cast aspersions on homosexuals because then we won't have to look at the sin in our own lives. I think we Christians need to carefully consider Jesus' words:
As I said, the Bible clearly states that homosexuality is wrong, but there are many other sins listed right along side it of which most of us can find at least one present in our lives. We need to look to our own moral state before we can start to confront other people about their problems. We need a moral revival in this country, and it needs to come across the board. Homosexuals should not be singled out in this effort. After all, we have allowed abortion to run unchecked since 1970. What two consenting adults do in their bedroom pales in comparison with the taking of millions of innocent lives.
A "moral revial" is the job of the federal government...
It's not up to the federal government to regulate homosexual behavior, or any sexual behavior. It's not the job of the federal government to impose a "moral revival," whatever that means. The 10th amendment limits the federal government's powers to powers that are specifically enumerated in the Constitution.
Agreed
I never said that the federal government should be involved. I definitely do not see it as a responsibility of the government. A moral revival (a return as a society to a strong appreciation for law, morality, and justice) must take place within the hearts and minds of each citizen.
Well said, Khomar. While I
Well said, Khomar. While I still do not view homosexuality as a vice per se, your argument provides a good perspective on the topic.
Missing the Point: Hypocrisy
I think a lot of people are missing the point here. I think the point that Baldwin is trying to make is that Bush, while claiming to be Christian and pandering to the religious conservatives, has actually implemented practices that are just as liberal as any Democrat. He is basically showing the hypocrisy in the Republican party much like the fact that they did nothing to end abortion (despite campaigning to do so) while they had control of all of Congress and Presidency for 6 years.
Isn't it odd that with homosexuality as rare as it is, there are so many homosexual appointees in Bush's administration?
More than that. If you'll
More than that. If you'll recall the GOP ran Bush for President in 2004 on an anti-Gay Marriage platform.
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BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thanks khomar!
as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD
hmm
Fortune Favors the Bold
this is frustrating. I've never really understood the christian obsession with sex.
Small-minded Puritanism run
Small-minded Puritanism run amock.
Seriously, I wish this country had been founded by the French, who at least were not a quarter as conflicted, repressed, or repressive as the 17th century British.
I guess eventually we’ll find out . . .
I guess eventually we’ll find out . . .
How many neocons can you fit in a closet?
All of them!
All of them!
They may not all be screwing each other, but you be be damned sure they are ALL screwing US!
And they called Ron Paul a
And they called Ron Paul a kook?! No thanks, I don't care for this latter-day Savonarola one bit. Maybe he can invent a time machine and go back to 1600's Spain and the Inquisition, where I suspect he would be much more comfortable.
I'd just as soon vote for McCain as vote for such a Neanderthal.
There's not a single word in
There's not a single word in this column about a pogrom against gays or any sort of sanctioned oppression. Not a word.
Pastor Baldwin has blasted the Religious Right for supporting Bush and the New World Order, too, but I don't think that makes him a "Christophobe".
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What's wrong with that?
Constitution party information, be sure they're on your state ballot:
http://www.constitutionpa...
Baldwin is opposed to the
Baldwin is opposed to the Agenda 21 plan-as all freedom lovers should be. We must stand for truth-google agenda 21 and open your eyes to what is creeping forward, if we don't stand for truth.
Maybe Baldwin is a closet homosexual... he's definately a liar.
I must say, the more I learn about Baldwin, the less I like him. What he fails to mention in this article about Larry Craig is that Craig is one of the worst anti-gay rights senators. The kind of anti-gay rhetoric that Baldwin is using, like saying that it's wrong to appoint someone who is openly gay to high government positions simply b/c they are gay, and that doing so somehow gives "sodomy control over the federal government." This kind of nonsense sounds like the rhetoric of, well, Larry Craig.
Baldwin is also lying when he says Barny Frank ran an escort service: an investigation of Frank by the ethics committee discovered that Frank knew nothing about the escort service that was being run from his apartment by his acquaintance. Baldwin also fails to mentions that IT WAS LARRY CRAIG THAT LEAD THE CHARGE TO TRY TO GET FRANK EXPELLED FROM CONGRESS!
I wouldn't be surprised is Baldwin is a closet homosexual. Even if he isn't, he apparently is for freedom, unless of course you're gay...
By the way, to those people who say you can't hudge Baldwin by LP standards because he's part of the CP... that's nonsense! That's like saying you can't judge John McCain b/c he's a Republican. As Americans, we have a right to judge any politician the way we want to, regardless of what party they are in!
homosexuality is
homosexuality is perversion... PERIOD! I do not want anyone in congress etc who is a pervert.. if they can not make that simple decision that homosexuality is wrong and should not be done then that person can no way be trusted to be a public official. it comes down to character... same with men or women who cheat on their spouces etc.. wrong is wrong.. if they can not take care of their own lives then how can I trust them to uphold the constitution or not get paid off by some corporation! think about it!
as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD
I have known homosexual
I have known homosexual people who were extremely honest, caring, considerate people, with no reek of "perversion" about them. Frankly, I find it no more of my business, and no more or less reprehensible, than a Muslim having 2 wives, or an FLDS polygamist family.
Sure, homosexuality, narrowly defined, is not conducive to the propagation of the species. But then, neither are voluntarily childless couples, monks and nuns, or celibate priests --- are they all "perverts" too? But they may very well be conducive to the continuance of society in a positive manner, so I am fine with all those mentioned. That is not to condone pedophilia, however, which has no connection with homosexuality in any way (in fact, the vast and disproportionate majority of pedophiles are ostensibly heterosexual).
and what benfits do they
and what benfits do they give to society.. desease, a murder rate that is way higher among gays then the rest of the population? just exactly what do they contribute? taxes? what about recruiting young kids into a deviant lifestyle? .. a suicide rate much higher then the average? It is PERVERSION.. pure and simple.. and yes you are right... people who have more then 1 wife.. people who cheat on there spouse, people who choose to have sex with animals.. it is all perversion. but I don't see them parading around demading that they have special privledges like the queers.
how is it perversion for people to choose not to have children, or monks or nuns or celebret priests.. thats comparing apples to oranges..
as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD
Sierra, I was just trying to
Sierra, I was just trying to address the frequently brought-up argument (which you admittedly did not make here) that homosexuality is unnatural because it does not result in the propagation of the species. I was trying to point out that neither do the other mentioned subsets of society, yet they are not derided for their lifestyles. Just like old people are not killed off just because they cannot procreate anymore --- even cavemen did not do that, from all that we can tell.
I do not think they deserve any special rights in any way whatsoever, however.
Throughout history, a disproportionate number of key thinkers, inventors and innovators have been out of the mainstream, both intellectually and sexually. I do not have to revile them just because I do not share their sexual proclivites, any more than I revile the average American who sincerely believes they must always vote for only Republicans or Democrats, which I think is wrongheaded and misguided.
Hey, you can impose any
Hey, you can impose any hysterical value judgement you want here.
Personally, I consider Bob Barr's cowardly, duplicitous betrayal of the Bill of Rights and his oath of office to be a bigger deal than Pastor Chuck Baldwin's "homophobia". But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's more important that we elect politically correct bureaucrats who don't impose moral codes because they don't believe in anything.
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Federal elected officals should not impose moral codes...
... because it is against the bill of rights, specifically the 10th amendment, not because they don't believe in anything. The federal government has no power to regulate anything that isn't specifically enumerated in the Constitution. Passing and enforcing laws that regulate consensual sexual behavior between adults, even homosexual behavior, is a violation of your oath of office. As for Barr, I'm not in love with him, I might vote for him, but there are things about Barr that I'm not comfortable about...
Again, you're jumping to
Again, you're jumping to conclusions, as Baldwin has never said he intended to enforce any of his moral concepts by Law.
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I think you are overreacting...
Chuck Baldwin is a pastor, which means some of his pronouncements are going to going to be flavored with moral posturing. Second, even in modern times, closet homosexuals are denied security clearances because of concerns they are subject to blackmail for being "outed". Regarding the comments about Bush, Baldwin seems to me to be condemning Bush's hypocrisy. Respected muckraker, Sherman Skolnik once reported George W. Bush carried on a long term homosexual affair with former Knoxville mayor, now Ambassador, Viktor Ashe. What do you think that would have done to Bush's "born again" credentials, had this been widely reported in 2000?
As I have argued since the beginning of the "gay rights" movement, there is a WHOLE lot of difference in condeming discrimination and of accepting same-sex attraction as a "legitimate alternative lifestyle". It's fine if you consider Chuck Baldwin "narrow-minded"; but to condemn him for his "narrow-mindedness" is just as narrow-minded and hypocritical to boot. I'd be proud to call Justin Raimondo my friend; it doesn't follow that I also celebrate his sex practices. They are none of my business, unless the consequences of his concealing them (he doesn't) had disasterous consequences to society.
Naw, there is more to this
He is suggesting that gay people are collaborating and infiltrating government to forward "their agenda" though he doesn't specifically mention policies.
This is sort of a antigay McCarthyism, but worse, since he assumes all gay s in government have similar agendas - and then links it to the Bohemian Grove and Skull and Bones connections. Now thats some crazy shit
from what I can see there
from what I can see there is.. homosexuals are doing to government , exactly what the democrats did to the republican party.. they infiltrate then make their own policy.. if you can't see that your blind.
as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD
A HA, its the
Gay jewish bilderberger illuminatis - in other words the neocons - in other words, anyone we don't like - that are causing all these problems
has nothing to do with
has nothing to do with liking or disliking... it is being done.. queers want "rights" the problem is that NO ONE should have any more special rights then anyone else!
as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD
I agree, Ironman --- Baldwin
I agree, Ironman --- Baldwin talks here as if there is some vast and sinister homosexual conspiracy. I can just imagine his tirade ending with talk about how, if nothing is done, "they" will be raping children in the streets and holding mandatory gay-sex-education classes in the public schools. It's just more pandering to very small-minded individuals and the truly ignorant.
akak, As a Christian this
akak,
As a Christian this is what I fear.. read Genesis... sodom and ghemorrah
were destryed because of homosexuality.. God does not approve.. now in those 2 cities the whole population was into this.. God destroyed the cities..
here it is not that far along by a wide margin but, God may not destroy this nation or is he? we abort our babies 50 million humans murdered. we say that "alternate" lifestyles are good... I am against these 2 things.. but I have no right to tell anyone what to do! especially using government to stop these behaviors.. this is where Ron Paul is correct.. it is a state issue not a federal government issue.. but still what is right is right and what is wrong is wrong.. if you want to live an alternate lifestyle then do it behind your closed doors.. don't flaunt it in front of me or my kids!
as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD
Sierra, I am probably not so
Sierra, I am probably not so far from you in beliefs on this as you might think. But what I have read recently from Baldwin on the subject smacks of witch-hunting, scapegoating and broad-brush bigotry, and THAT is what I reject. Besides, the Bible is full of injunctions against sins that are much more taken for granted --- adultery, anyone? Abortion (as you point out)? False weights and measures (a.k.a. fiat currency)? Usury (hello, credit card companies)? I could go on and on.
akak your exactly right..
akak your exactly right.. sin is sin to God! but many people who partake in the sins you mention don't parade in the streets wanting others to accept there sin! I have NO right to tell a homosexual couple to stop what they are doing.. it is there business.. but on the other hand they have no right to go before the courts to get the government to force me to accept them..
as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD
Well, I agree with you there
Well, I agree with you there --- it is reprehensible to tell ANYONE to whom they can sell a house, or serve a meal, or hire or fire at will. Liberty includes the right of free association, but watch out, pretty soon even saying that will be a thoughtcrime!
CHUCK BALDWIN = MORAL FASCIST
Those comments right there prove it......
Moral fascism is still FASCISM folks......
morals have nothing to do
morals have nothing to do with fascism... gees where did you pull that from?
as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD
Political Correctness at its
Political Correctness at its best. Saying something you don't like about a minority group = Fascism.
He's a preacher, who was railing against the Republican hypocrites du jour.
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No, Fascism is Fascism.
No, Fascism is Fascism.
Moralism is Moralism.
The Constitution Party is a Christian conservative party and makes no bones about it. That being said, they do not appear to have any plans to enforce their views using the mace of federal government.
Go cite for me a single example in the original article where Baldwin proposes using laws or government authority to hurt gay people. All he is doing is pointing out the massive hypocrisy of the Republican Party with its chest-beating on gay issues, and bemoaning what he perceives as moral corruption in our government.
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and this...
"He [Bush] has given organized sodomy considerable control over the federal government."
What kind of homophobic statement is this.......sounds hurtful to gays, to me.
And why should the Constitution Party be a Christian conservative party, when the Constitution does not once use Jesus name to proclaim liberty.....or freedom....!
And remember....our lives are not dictated by some book written by hundreds of men, passed down a thousand years and told a little differently each time to push "the chruches" social moral agenda of the age.
Sounds like fascism to me!!!
If you think political
If you think political incorrectness is Fascism, maybe you don't understand what we are trying to do here. Maybe you should vote for Barack Obama.
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I suppose you might say
That Hitler had politically incorrect views concerning Jews.
But the thing is, these are NOT JUST politically incorrect views. It is the assignment of an agenda to a particular group.
Hitler said the jews were involved in a conspiracy to secretly rule Germany, Baldwin says that the Gays are involved in a secret conspiracy to rule the U.S.
Except that he didn't say
Except that he didn't say that. He said that homosexuality was rampant in both parties, with point of emphasis being on the Republican side of the coin.
I just re-read the entire column this controversial snip was taken from, and I couldn't find a single word to suggest that he was saying "gays are involved in a conspiracy to rule the U.S.", or anything proposing something be "done about them". He says homosexuality is rampant in Washington, Bush (who has openly campaigned on gay-bashing) has done nothing to back up his rhetoric, and that Washington is corrupt, and "we should clean house".
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He doesn't use the word conspiracy but...
Baldwin does say that nominating openly gay people to public positions gives "organized sodomy" control over the federal government, and at the end of the article Baldwin claims that homosexuals DOMINATE both of the major parties. So Baldwin is claiming that there is an "organized sodomy" movement that already controls the federal government!
Yes, Shaken, plus the
Yes, Shaken, plus the general tone of the whole rant boils down to "Those damned evil and insidious fags!" Insert the word "Jews" or "Jewish" wherever he says "homosexual" in that same spech, and tell me what it would sound like to you.