Here is why our government doesn't work and what to do about it
A Magic Bullet Will Be Needed to Kill the 17th Amendment.
An article by Paul Hanson
The U.S Constitution "originally" laid out the separation of powers
between the federal government and the State governments in the first paragraph of article 1 section 3. How this paragraph accomplished that goal will become clear later in this article. This paragraph states:
"The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each state, chosen by the LEGISLATURE thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote."
Then in Article I, section 4 we also find this:
"The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators
and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the
Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the PLACES of
chusing Senators." Those places were to be in the State Legislatures.
This balance of power was then permanently locked in by the last
clause of article 5. I call this clause the magic bullet because
it can't be stopped by any means that I can see. Article 5 dealing
with amendments to the Constitution clearly states:
"... and that NO State, without its consent, shall be deprived of its
equal Suffrage in the Senate."
By including this in the section dealing with amendments, it is
obvious that the sections of the Constitution concerning selection
of Senators and the suffrage they provided was not amendable
unless ALL of States consented and that this was to be a permanent provision. All of the above shows how adamant the founders were about this point by referring to the States representation on no less than 3 occasions. If even ONE State objected to changes in an area that would affect their suffrage, that change would be invalid. The normal ratification process could not be used to alter this principle. Yet that is exactly what happened when the 17th amendment was adopted.
The father of our Constitution, James Madison, in Federalist 43,
further supports this claim. He states that the Constitution was
completely amendable with 2 exceptions only. One of the
exceptions dealt with the importation of slaves and became moot
after 1808. The other was the State's equal suffrage in the Senate.
It appears, then, that this all boils down to definition. What is the
definition of State suffrage? In Federalist 59, Hamilton explains
State suffrage as the State legislatures having a voice in the
Senate. The 17th amendment effectively canceled that voice and
turned it over to the citizens of the States. I submit to you that
now, however, this definition has been left entirely to the
discretion of the States themselves. The courts have no say in the
matter. I will explain this bold statement in detail later. Why do I
feel this issue vitally important to restoring States rights? For
the same reasons our Founders did, to support the concept of
federalism and the balance of power between the States and federal government.
This concept strictly limited the federal governments powers to those specifically enumerated in Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S.
Constitution. The People, through the Constitution, permitted the
national government to exercise certain enumerated powers. By
limiting the federal government's power and granting the States
nearly unlimited power, the federal government would merely be
protecting the States collectively and allowing the States to
handle their own affairs.
Federalism allowed the States wide latitude to run their own affairs
and by doing so, created 13 laboratories of freedom to experiment and formulate the best system of self-governance. This situation also created an atmosphere of competition between the States. When a State allowed its inhabitants to prosper and keep what they earn, The State would prosper and be allowed to continue governing its people. When the State government became a burden to them, the people could vote out the tyrants during the next election. Another alternative was for the businesses and the people to move to a State that was more to their liking. Business leaving the State would cause the tax base to erode and so would the peoples support of that government. Sooner or later, either
the State government or the people would wake up and correct
the problem.
The 17th amendment took away the States protection from the abuses of federal power allowing the federal government to get away with legislating in areas where they had no business doing so. This was a grave error seriously upsetting the balance of power so carefully crafted into our magnificent Constitution. The concept of Federalism was all but destroyed leading to endless abuses by the federal government from which there is no escape.
The enforcement mechanism against federal encroachment prior to the invalid17th was the States' representation in the Senate. The "Peoples House"i.e. the House of Representatives amply represents the people, while the States were to be represented by the Senate.
The States now have no representation and we are experiencing the folly of this venture toward pure democracy today. We were founded as a Republic not a democracy and now we see why. All the States needed to do in the past was to recall or direct their Senators before a bad law made it to the floor of the Senate for a vote and the damage could be stopped in its tracks. Hamilton's Federalist essay 59 addresses this issue directly. This power has been unconstitutionally snatched from the States by the invalid 17th amendment.
Careful study of the 17th amendments ratification reveals at least 10 states that failed to do so. Those 10 were FL, MS, DE, KY, UT, MD, RI, AL, IA and GA. The clear manner in which article 5 is written places the statement dealing with States equal suffrage in the Senate after the words: "Provided that no Amendment which may be made..." further showing that this was an exception to the rule regarding amendments.
With the failure those of 10 states to ratify the 17th, they were
denied their equal suffrage in the Senate without their consent in
violation of Article 5, thus making the 17th amendment invalid.
However, once any state declares the 17th invalid, based on what
I have pointed out here, that State, even though it had previously
consented to the 17th can withdraw its consent anytime it so chooses. Any State that previously consented can say "we no longer consent" because Article 5 mentions nary a word about the permanence of any such consent. The right of the state to withdraw that consent is further fully supported by the clear wording of the 10th amendment:
AMENDMENT X
(1791)
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the
Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the
States respectively, or to the people."
The power to withdraw that consent is not prohibited by article 5
so the power to withdraw it is reserved and retained by the
States. Fits like a glove. All the states need to do is select their
Senators in their legislatures and send them to Washington.
Simple. And what would the courts say about move such as this?
No court can attempt to make the State comply with the 17th
because they won't have jurisdiction to try the case. Here's why:
When a sovereign State declares the 17th amendment invalid, the Senate would be unlawfully seated. It would then follow that the Supreme Court is also unlawfully seated as is the entire federal bench because the Senate approves those federal court appointments including the Supreme Court. Anything decided by those federal courts would be null and void. The State could simply refuse to recognize the jurisdiction of the court system. The States could argue that the federal judiciary has been confirmed by a Senate that did not have the states best interest at heart.
The only other argument that could be made against the State would be the power of the Senate to be the ultimate judge of their elections and refuse to seat the Senators. However, how can an illegitimate Senate make such a decision? The answer is, they can't.
I have presented these facts in many forums over the years and they have never been successfully challenged. One argument that always seems to arise is this: "Well, all the states do have equal suffrage because they still each have two senators." This invalid argument comes from a lack of full understanding of what "suffrage" really stands for and by a focus on the first term "equal" while ignoring the second, "suffrage." The point of my entire article is that the States (meaning the State Legislatures) are the ones who have lost suffrage. The people of the State now elect Senators and are in possession of that suffrage. The real point is who do these senators now represent? After I make this point, I usually get this: "Well, the people ARE the "State." This is not entirely accurate either. In all instances I can find in the Constitution where it is speaking about the States, it is speaking of the Legislature of the States. The best example I can find that clearly delineates between the two is the last clause of that wonderful 10th Amendment again. That clause clearly lists the "People" and the "States" as two separate entities. If they were the same thing, there would be no need to list them both in the very same sentence.
There are other far-reaching implications of an invalid 17th and I'm
sure that opponents of what's been written here will use them to fight these truths. I will not give them ammunition by detailing what those far reaching implications are. However, I will say this:
If we endeavor to rid ourselves of the invalid 17th amendment in
the manner outlined above, be prepared for the fight of your lives
because there are many entrenched interests that would like
nothing more than to never have this information reach the light
of day.
There have been many articles written concerning the "repeal" of the 17th amendment. While many of these articles correctly point out the folly of the 17th, they fail to realize that a movement to repeal is nothing more than a pipe dream. The only way to remove the 17th amendment is through outright repudiation using the method I have described above. I will explain why:
There are 2 methods laid out in Article 5 for amending the
Constitution. One of those methods is through a Convention of the
States. I will not go into details as to why this method should
never be used under any circumstances other than to say that if you truly value your freedoms, this method should be avoided at all
costs. The other method would be an exercise in futility. To use
the method that all the other amendments have used since the
10th would entail having to first convince 67 senators to vote
themselves out of a job. Then 290 House members would have to
vote for the repeal of an amendment which will make all the laws
they want to pass much more difficult to push through the Senate.
A senate which as a result of its passage would now be jealously
guarding the rights of the States that the House laws frequently
trample. If that isn't enough, you need to get 38 state legislatures
to vote for repealing an amendment over the objections of the
people who would feel like their right to vote was being stolen (a
right which never really existed due to an invalid 17th). To
educate the masses in 38 separate states that the 17th
amendment was a mistake is an insurmountable task. To do it
for just one, as would be the case in a move to repudiate it,
Maybe. In a repudiation argument, it could be demonstrated to
the people that the right to vote for their Senators should have
never been theirs in the first place due to the fraudulent manner
in which the 17th was adopted.
My first target for a move to repudiate would be done in a State
that swings to the right most of the time and where the voters are
well informed and leery of the feds. Utah would be my choice
since Utah rejected the 17th outright and they have been stung
recently by federal land grabs. Please join me in this endeavor to
repudiate the 17th and get the concept of federalism firmly back
on track.
We must educate ourselves and our posterity in the wonderful documents that founded our great Republic if we are ever to set it back on course toward freedom and prosperity. That is why I'm writing this today. My positions on the 17th amendment are supported by the Constitution of the United States including the 10th amendment and "The Federalist Papers", specifically Madison 43 and Hamilton 59.
Thanks for your attention,
Sincerely,
Paul C. Hanson
This article can also be found on my blog @:
http://blog.myspace.com/i...





















Bump! Read and learn then
Bump! Read and learn then get to work...
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Prepare For the Coming Storms, Join New FreelandersSelf Reliance & Preparedness Forums
State Sovereignty Via the 10th
Good article!
I agree that we need to follow the constitution and do this properly. However I don’t think it would have a big impact at this time. Many state legislatures are just as corrupt as their federal counterpart. And would just appoint senators to help further their corrupt agendas and expand it nationally etc. inflaming the people as you point out that they have lost their supposed voting rights. Damned if you do damned of you don’t since the people are largely ignorant of who and what they vote in regularly. I am not saying we shouldn’t pursue it, just that I don’t think it would have a big effect even if we could accomplish it.
Having said that I think you are right on target with state sovereignty and in fact it should be the main thrust and emphasis of your article in my opinion rather then the 17th amendment because people simply don’t understand it and are ignorant of it. If we could get a state to exercise its sovereignty and force the federal government back to it constitutional bounds then doing what you suggest would be a snap for that state because all the ground work for getting the right people into the right offices who would do this has already been done.
What that means is we have a lot of work to do in a state or states to get to that point. We need to elect a state governor and legislature willing to stand up for their state sovereignty and tell the feds to take a hike.
This is the mot important thing I think Ron Paul supporters can do right now; take back their state and local government. We don’t need to win the presidency, all we need to do is get control of our states and counties and we can nullify the federal government’s unconstitutional acts! And we would not need to take back every state to save the country. Get involved in your local Republican party if you want to make this a reality.
The bonus of this as I mentioned is they can also force the feds back to their constitutional bounds in all areas such as sound money, taking back federal lands, becoming independent of federal bribes er ah I mean funds, eliminating federal influence of education, forcing federal alphabet agencies back to their constitutional jurisdiction if they have any at all in the state or eliminating them if they don’t. Freeing up people to start businesses without stifling taxes, fees, permits, and bureaucratic harassment and be more self reliant etc. etc.
One point I disagree with you on is that Utah is the best state. I have family in Utah and they have become a fascist state to rival California in my opinion.
Idaho would be the best state since we are already working to this end and making some headway. I am currently working on a bold comprehensive plan for Idaho to do this and have a legislator I am talking to and several other possibilities (I have yet to contact) in the legislature that may be willing to pitch it. We already passed a plank in the Idaho Republican Party to end the Federal Reserve and return to sound money, and have a lot of folks angry at how much control the Fed has over our lands n among other things.
I may post the plan here at some point and ask for help in finishing it. If one state could set the example others would follow.
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Prepare For the Coming Storms, Join New FreelandersSelf Reliance & Preparedness Forums
We can't fix our country directly.
IF my people,
which are called by my name
shall humble themselves,
and pray,
and seek my face,
and turn from their wicked ways,
THEN will I hear from heaven,
and will forgive theirs sin,
AND WILL HEAL THEIR LAND.
2 Chronicles 7:14
God is the only One who can heal our land; and He won't unless we do the above.
And it doesn't look like there's much interest in Christians doing the above, they seem to prefer getting their jollies one way or another.
God have mercy on America! Give us more time, please, to stir up our apathetic people!
Bump...
Wow. It would be nice if they would really teach us about the U.S. Constitution in our public school system. Some people might actually realize what's happening to our nation.
I really like your plan too. You're right, no way to educate everyone... but you wouldn't have to. You'd just have to have one state legislature put it's foot down. Don't forget about Idaho, Montana, Wyoming. Those would all be great choices too.
I'm glad you included everything in your explanation too, because it all needs to be there to truly understand the implications of having this 17th amendment. It's not that it would prevent corruption, it's just that...
#1 The corruption would be limited to that particular state until they replaced their senator, which would be much easier to do through the legislature.
#2 The separation of powers between the states and the federal gov would be preserved. That's where we're losing it now. The states have no power.
Excellent article
I have pointed out the errors of the 17th Amendment for years, but you have far surpassed my own arguments.
Thanks!
I wish I could make it shorter so more people would actually read it. I really can't though. To get people on board, the concept of federalism has to be explained. Tho the people here on DP are much more astute than most, it was written for the masses in general so if the article winds up somewhere else (which I freely encourage) it may not be accepted without this explanation included. Also, there are so many people on the "repeal" bandwagon, the part explaining that repeal is just a pipe dream also must be included. Also, to prevent the same repeated arguments I get all the time about the "people are the states" and that "all states have equal suffrage" also need inclusion. The rest of it is necessary to explain what the last clause of article 5 means, how it should be applied re: the 17th, the implications, and what to do about it. Also, I needed to explain that the courts absolutely MUST be shut out of the equation. They will kill it just as sure as I'm typing this. That is why I included a mechanism for doing just that. It shuts them out completely, for those federal judges are not lawfully seated. The last clause of article 5 IS truly the magic bullet.
Paul.
Yup.
With full credit to you (of course, I wouldn't do it any other way), I'd like to link to and reproduce this on my own blog.
Please feel free.
I'll keep it on my blog so the link should stay active. I appreciate the help.
Done.
It's up there now at http://muddythoughts.blog...
I'll update the myspace blog link later. It's blocked from this location.
Thanks, Paul!
Interesting
There are so many crooked state governments, would the states do a better job of choosing these senators than the people have? Or would the elite still be chosen? Have you hashed this over with a constitution attorney? Not that I am convinced attorneys need to be involved, but if you could find a Ron Paul attorney, it could be very helpful.
Debated, many times.
Ya, crooked state governments were the supposed reason for the 17th in the first place. But seriously, if the state govt. had the power to instruct their senator or he'd be out on his ear, what would corruption matter? About the lawyers, the Constitution says what it says. "and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate." What can be more clear than that? I've debated this with lawyers before. They lost. I didn't title the original article "The Magic Bullet" for nothing. The courts and their scumbag lawyers have no say in the matter and the reasons for that bold statement were made clear in the article. Thanks for your response.
Paul.
Explain
your statement, "But seriously, if the state govt. had the power to instruct their senator or he'd be out on his ear, what would corruption matter?"
In Texas for example, I am not all that familiar with Texas senate and congress (my bad) but judging by our federally elected officials and judging from our Governor, we have a bunch of neocons governing here. If the rest of the state congress is that way, they will choose neocons like the ones we have. So they would be happy with the senators they might choose and even if the people were not happy with them, the state government would not kick them out.
This is a bump, but in the process just trying to clear my mind.
It's not about the neo-cons, it's about state autonomy.
Federal encroachment is the problem. I'm sure you are correct that the "neo-cons" in the statehouse in Texas would select a neo-con senator. But, they would also exercise control over that Senator and that is the key point I'm trying to make. The neo-cons are a flash in the pan and will be tossed out of the white house in November (which hopefully will wake up the grassroots republicans to forge a different path in the future). The 17th amendment however will live on unless something is done about it. If the legislature of Texas chooses a crappy Senator, then it is up to the people of that state to dump their legislators during the next election cycle. This is much easier to do than to dump a U.S. Senator with their huge war-chest of campaign funds and their power of incumbency.
The power of the state legislators to have their voices heard at the national level is gone. That is why within the last 20 years or so, many states have passed 10th amendment resolutions which basically beg the federal government to stop encroaching into the states affairs. Of course, the feds have ignored these pleas. The 10th amendment has lost its teeth and therefore its bite and enforcement mechanism. The only recourse is for the states to "plead" their case to the feds or the supreme court. This was not the original intent of the founders, and now we see why. The 17th amendment was and is a bad idea regardless of which group controls the statehouse. That is my point.
Even if the state legislatures are corrupt, or the process in selecting their senator is corrupt, it is still "their" senator and that senator can be told not to vote for a particular law that encroaches on state autonomy thus returning the "teeth" to the 10th amendment. If the state legislature is corrupt, it is up to you and your neighbors to fix it. Your state legislators are much more accessible and vulnerable than a representative to the national legislature. It only takes a 1,000 vote swing or so to dump one. Look up past election results for state house races and you'll see.
I'm not trying to say that you haven't made good points with your questions, because you have. What I am saying is that even though there may be corruption involved when the system is reverted back, it will still be far better in the long run if your state legislatures voice is returned to the Senate because the current system sucks so bad that any change at all will be for the better. It will also bring that corruption closer to the people and to a level that can be dealt with with a mere 1,000 votes. Just 50 dedicated people working in a statehouse district can make that 1,000 vote swing happen.
If you still have questions, I'll keep tabs on the thread and try to respond.
Paul.
OK, I gotcha
Your explanation is what I was thinking, but wanted to see if I was getting it.
So, now you are saying that the remedy is already in place basically, because the 17th was not correctly ratified and as such all states can change their vote. But that you would start with Utah because they are the most likely to go for it with their good showing for Ron Paul. And that they don't really need to do anything except write a statement as a body and state that they change their vote, present their new senators and have them show up in Congress to replace the ones who are now performing illegally. Right?
It would be nice if they also decided their salary and retirement plan and that it would not be voted in by the group receiving it.
The point about Utah
and one of the main reasons I chose that state is because they wouldn't have to actually "change" their vote for the 17th because they never ratified it in the first place. Neither did the other 9 states listed, nor did Alaska and Hawaii as they were not states at the time the 17th was adopted. It could be argued that since they (Alaska and Hawaii) agreed to join the union with the 17th already in place, that they are bound by it, but it could also be argued that they also approved and are entitled to the provisions of the last clause of article 5. And since the 17th was fraudulently adopted per last clause of art.5, they are on an even better legal footing to reject the 17th than states who previously ratified it, but not better than the states that rejected it outright. Otherwise I would have chosen Alaska as the primary target instead of Utah.
Paul.
Oh, right
I understood why you chose Utah when I read it, then I forgot and didn't reread.
So how are you going to proceed?
Very Carefully.
We only have one shot at this. Once the elite get wind of this bullet heading their way, they will try to drag it into court or even send bullets my way, real ones. I'm a bit nervous about it. I've been told by someone in the know that this could be dangerous to my health should I pursue it since the idea cuts right through the heart of the beast. They better pack a lunch is all I can say cause I don't intend to just rollover and die...
Paul.
Good luck with it
You will be joining Ron Paul and many others in the courage department. What we have to face if we don't overthrow this fascist thing is going to take a whole lot of courage also. I'd rather spend my courage getting us back to America than becoming some monster global One World Order.