This town prints it's own money-Ithaca NY
Posted July 24th, 2008 by xxonice
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This is so cool! http://www.youtube.com/wa...
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Fantastic. This may very well catch on..
This type of idea if applied in large scale can defiantly raise some eyebrows.
Peace to all and may the rEVOLution continue!
The IRS
In God We Trust!
The IRS can go to hell
www.losthorizons.com
Great post!
More info here:
http://www.ithacahours.or...
So does Madison
Madison, Wisconsin has it's own too
http://www.madisonhours.o...
I like this...
Just like that guy that was paying his employees in silver dollars. He was paying them the amount of their pay in silver based on the silver prices that day... but that meant that they were only paid a tiny amount of money in accordance with the face value of the coins. They exchanged the silver for bunches of FRN's, but only got taxed on the face value of the coins, so they technically didn't get paid enough to have to pay any taxes. They even went to court and won the case.
I love it when people take control over their money. That's the way it's supposed to be.
What about minimum wage laws?
As long as you can meet the minimum with "in-kind" or other benefits, it might work, but I wonder. Also which value does the employer put as his expense: the face value or the cost to purchase the coins?
It seems like issues that could be worked out.
IMissLiberty
It says...
"The IRS expected Kahre to report his workers’ earnings based on the coins’ market value in the Federal Reserve system. Instead, he didn’t report or pay anything at all because the face value of the coins fell below the reporting threshold."
He didn't even have to report it! (That just shows you how little our paper money is really worth!)
I don't know all the details...
But I do know they went to court and won.
Here's a story I just found about it. You might can learn more with this additional info...
http://www.liberty-watch....
I think some of you are starting to "get it"
Yes, it's barter, BACKED by hours, but backed by something!!! FRN are not backed by anything!!! Furthermore, while some may claim it can be manipulated, this system works on a much broader scale than using FRN's to "buy" because more individuals can earn these labor dollars within the community; they won't automatically have to retire at a certain age or depend 100% on welfare. Everyone has something to contribute:
"Money should not be the "end-all" to living nor used to value life; but, instead, should be a "tool" that is used to trade value for value."
"The trick is to "use" the monetary system; not be lead by it."
"These "powers that be" are not afraid of changing the money system to other coin; they are afraid that WE WILL change the value we place on the money system."
We are a creative bunch, we CAN expand this to work, just like the town of Ithaca! Using these hour bucks locally would free up more "dollars" to pay off debt to the bankers and get them out of the picture entirely.
Besides aren't we going to get rid of the illegal IRS too?
Use of this currency would
Use of this currency would only free up money for other debts for the people that are not business owners. The business owners still have a tax obligation to the IRS and a limited amount of Federal Reserve Notes to pay them.
I agree, that, in theory, this is a fine example. At some point the business owner will need someone to purchase something with FRNs or he will be losing his property to tax sale...
Ron Paul's Free Competition in Currency Act
http://www.house.gov/paul...
Bump
At least the Fed is out of the picture.
unfortunately
it's not backed by anything.
it's as worthless as the paper it's printed on and only holds value as long as the residents of Ithaca have faith in it... much like our own currency.
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Penndel Borough needs to step up and eliminate the crime they've created by not paving and maintaining Robbins Avenue
http://will86aber.wordpre...
what's not backed -Ithaca's Bucks?
Do you not value your own labor? How do you think the hours are earned? The FRN's could be used in the same way, if traded for equal hours contributed NOT someone telling you what your labor is worth!!!!
OK
It's pointless in a depression to expect everyone to hold gold. And in this situation everyone would have to have it to eat. That's the point of depression scrip. PS good luck finding gold DURING a depression, it ain't gonna happen.
It's backed by labor hours
.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Interesting, but it can
Interesting, but it can still be manipulated, expanded and/or counterfitted. I would, however, imagine that the use of those notes reduces everyone's tax burden because they are not legal tender, so no income is earned...
Currency backed by gold can be
counterfeited too.
I wish!
Unfortunately the IRS requires that Ithaca Hours be counted as income, also.
So, it really accomplishes
So, it really accomplishes nothing.
What is accomplishes is the promotion of buying locally
Consider these Ithaca Hours to be sort of like Ithaca Gift Certificates, that just happen to be spendable in a bunch of stores instead of only one store.
But because the Ithaca Hours are not accepted for payment outside the local area, you have to spend the Hours in your community. Much like if my mom gets me a Best Buy gift card for Christmas, if I want to spend that money I have to go to Best Buy, instead of Circuit City or wherever else I might have preferred, and could have gone, if dear mom had given me federal reserve notes instead of the store-specific currency (gift card).
Regardless of wether it is
Regardless of wether it is kept in the community or not, it changes little. The bottom line is, according to your own testimony, that it is still taxed by the IRS and obviously, Ithaca isn't a self-sustaining city. So, at some point the Federal Reserve must be involved because I am sure that the distributors that supply Ithaca's stores don't accept Ithaca Hours.
If Ithaca was self-sustaining that would be a different story. It would work and be of some significance. And, if that was the case, the IRS would have shut it down already.
Which is why enthusiasm should be tempered
These sorts of local currency programs (there are a few others out there) are good to the extent they accomplish their local goals of keeping spending within the local area. But that is as far as they go. As you state, eventually Ithaca businesses need to purchase goods from out of town, and they need to do that using a currency accepted by their suppliers.
For some insight on what happens to communities that try to be self-sustaining, learn more about Texas's recent attempts to commit genocide on the Mormon fundamentalists at the YFZ Ranch in Texas. That was an almost entirely self-sustaining community, which as you allude Samuel, cannot be tolerated by the powers that be.
During a depression , towns
During a depression , towns or communities tend to conglomerate in order to obtain goods and services at close proximity. Those towns which have a local currency, or scrip, will have a huge advantage over communities that don't. This is a tried and proven method in the Great Depression and really stands up to muster. Local currencies in an economic collapse are not designed to be used on a long term basis, just as long as the collapse exist. However, an extended collapse could strengthen that currency as more and more people will congregate where the life quality is best.
Source?
That would be attrocious.
They don't tax barter.
The IRS asks for income in dollars and cents. If you don't convert your labor notes for dollars, then there is nothing to report on the income tax form.
www.ithicahours.org
The Ithaca Hours website itself states that the IRS requires any income in Hours to be reported.
If they're converted into dollars
If you don't ever convert them, then you don't have any "income" from them.
That is awesome!
We should all start doing that. How do you do it legally?
Bump
Someone please show this to Barney Frank:)
Ron paul is on it!
Except he is going for the optimum! Lifting Fed restrictions of minting our own currency locally.
bump
to show people it can be done-solutions are all around us.