Help me understand November 5th
Posted November 4th, 2007 by Overhaul-with-Paul
output
Background first. Student of Austrian economics and American politics, author of a libertarian solutions book, president of a company that teaches kids about free enterprise, Daily Paul as homepage since May though learned of Dr. Paul many years earlier, donor to the campaign, coordinator of many advertising and publicity campaigns, brother to a life-long tv anchorman, and a film studies minor in college... still I had to poke around to learn something about Guy Fawkes and V for Vendetta. And clicked on the movie's key speech that is linked to at this site.
When Joel Stein and Tucker Carlson recently chuckled at the reason why RP supporters chose November 5th, it struck concern in me. With Franklin, Madison, Sam Adams, Jefferson, Mises, Hayek, Friedman and other giants to choose from, haven't we connected what may be the largest publicity generator for Dr. Paul at year end to a masked figure in a marginally rated fiction film? Media is about blurbs and if the Nov 5 bomb's publicity is framed by this reason for the date, it will do little to awaken millions of less hip, salt of the earth Americans to RP's hopeful message. We need those millions to join us, not have reason to marginalize us. Is anyone else concerned that dozens of Joel Stein's will spew smug condescension about Ron Paul later this week, because of the V for Vendetta connection?
-JP
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VENTING !!
I had exactly 100 bucks left on my credit card and little did I know, the "security code" on the back of the card is completely gone and I can't even use it online. This is all the "money" I have so I guess until I can find a way to spend it online, I cannot donate today! and now my day will be miserable..UNLESS
I turn it into cash via atm and put it in my bank and use my debit. but then there will be atm and credit card fees
I AM DONATING ONLY 80 DOLLARS TODAY INSTEAD OF MY PLEDGE OF 100.
Then I am paying off my credit cards, destroying them, canceling my accounts, saving my money and not letting anyone own even a tiny part of me or my paycheck. Except for the 60-80 dollars the gov't takes out of what should be my 350 dollar paycheck every week those bastards!!
I better start seeing more commercials in the state of NH!!!
Go www.operationnh.com go, I'll be helping you out soon!
Rich/NH
Rich in NH
Try to call the credit card company and verify information to possibly get your security code. It should work. They'll probably want your social. Or call the campaign and try to get it by without the security code first.
Ignorance
Just because it has nothing to do with Guy Fawkes Day doesn't mean it's not significant. If I decided to declare September 11th National Happy Fun Day because there was a movie about it, don't you think that it would be a bad choice considering the history of that day? Or are you too ignorant to see my point?
Script from the V for Vendetta(it's the heart of it) should help
I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of the everyday routine, the security of the familiar, the tranquility of repetition. I enjoy them as much as any bloke. But in the spirit of commemoration whereby important events of the past usually associated with someone's death or at the end of some awful, bloody struggle are celebrated with a nice...I thought we could mark this November 5th by taking some time out of our daily lives.
There are, of course those who do not want us to speak.
Why? Because while the truncheon maybe used in lieu of conversation...words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning and for those who listen the enunciation of truth.
There is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there?
Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppresssion. And where once you had the freedom to object...to speak as you saw fit...you now have censors and systems of survelliance coercing your conformity...and soliciting your submission.
How did this happen? Who's to blame?
Certainly there are those who are more responsible than others and they will be held accountable.
But again, truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty...you need only to look into a mirror.
I know why you did it! I know you were afraid!
Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease.
There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense.
Fear got the best of you...and in your panic, you turned to now High Chancellor. He promised you order, he promised you peace and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent.
To remind this country of what it has forgotten...more than 400 years ago, a great citizen wished ti imbed the 5th of November, forever in our memories.
His hope was to remind us the world that fairness, justice and freedom are more than words.
They are perspectives! So if you see nothing...if the crimes of this government remain unknown to you...then I suggest that you allow the 5th of November to pass unmarked.
But if you see what I see...if you feel what I feel, and if you would seek as I seek.
Then I ask of you to stand beside me on this 5th of November and together, we shall give them a 5th of November that shall never be forgot!
Thanks, mdp
Thanks for posting the script. It's just a movie, but it really touched on both my hopes and fears.
The timing is PERFECT....
As another poster mentioned the timing is PERFECT - its monday after payday.... people can now save up to go on vacation to visit their relatives, plenty of time to seperate it from close to Thanksgiving, its a historic REVOLUTIONARY DAY.... quit trying to connect it to politics 300 years ago...
Actually it WAS RECOMMENDED MORE ON THE MOVIE BASIS V FOR VENDETTA which took November 5th from the Guy Fawkes thing. Also, isnt it election day NEXT YEAR...
There is alot of good timing and symbology here so just shut the f#ck up and donate....
sheeshhhhhhhhhh
some people need to get a life...
and AGAIN, IT WAS MOSTLY STARTED FROM V FOR VENDETTA ABOUT THE PEOPLE RISING UP TO OVERTHROW THE CORRUPT GOVERNMENT THAT WAS CONTROLLING PEOPLES LIVES.... SO WE KNOW IT HAS OTHER HISTORIC VALUE BUT THE GUY FAWKES THING WAS NOT THE MAJOR BASIS FOR THIS MOVEMENT...
Wow.
It's so sad that everyone thinks that the day November 5th only holds relevance in a movie... Please educate yourself a bit and find out what happened on November 5th in REAL LIFE.
Election Announcement!
Remember everyone, the additional fun of November 5th. Next year, it will be the day "Ron Paul is the President of the United States" will be scrolling across your TV screen after a long night. (And personally, I will be partying too hard to stay up late).
This is masturbation
I can't believe the capacity of people to second-guess things to death. Stop worrying! Just dig deep and give.
(FYI there is no such thing as a perfect political campaign. Most campaigns stagger from one disaster or poor judgement or run of bad luck to the next, and still people manage to get elected.)
Agreed.
Let it be simple. A bunch of us have agreed to donate on a particular day, and as a group, we can make one hell of a statement. It's that simple.
Agreed.
But it's also the Monday after a payday, and the timing of just before local elections will also help get people civic-minded for the local elections.
Speaking of which, if you have local elections coming up Tuesday, be sure to get out and vote!
don't worry
I share your concern. My first reaction was the same as yours. However, if Ron Paul and the official campaign had thought this idea would hurt, they would have asked us to reconsider the date to prevent any blowback. To my knowledge there has been nothing but encouraging words. So, they must be confident they can spin this in a positive light, and I put my faith in the official campaign.
Remember the 5th of November, The Gunpowder, Treason and Plot
Remember, remember the fifth of November,
The gunpowder, treason and plot,
I know of no reason
Why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.
Many versions have it "Please to remember the 5th of November..."
Guy Fawkes is considered a quasi-hero in the Commonwealth countries and among the highest educated in American society (who might have traveled to England, Canada, Australia or South Africa to study).
It is often said "Guy Fawkes was the only man to ever enter Parliament with honorable intentions".
This is a dry joke of course. Nobody wants to blow up Parliament literally anymore. But figuratively they do in that they want to reduce government.
Whoever thought of November 5th was a genius.
The problem is only 3% of Americans would have the IQ to get the reference...and that equals approximately the support so far for RP.
Here is an article:
http://mensnewsdaily.com/...
And here is another article:
http://www.americanchroni...
How many new posts have all
How many new posts have all of a sudden questioned the wisdom of linking the campaign to this date? This event has been very well publicized for weeks and yet.. lo and behold only on the eve of the event do so many ask "are we sure about this?"
bahh ! It is so much trot not worthy of an answer. Anyone who posts such questions now has one intent and it is obvious.
All of a sudden we are supposed to have second thoughts, to start worrying about what the paid charlatans will be able to say.. all of a sudden .."maybe we should just behave ourselves and be nice"?
bahh humbug ! GIVE !! GIVE like there's no tomorrow ! Ron Paul's bid IS our last chance to realize a peaceful revolution.
intent
Explain this.
I cannot know your heart.
I cannot know your heart. But we can draw a picture of intent based on effect.
..."Is anyone else concerned that dozens of Joel Stein's will spew smug condescension about Ron Paul later this week, because of the V for Vendetta connection?'...
My answer is no and my question is why do you ask this question tonight? Perhaps your intent is as clean as the wind driven snow. Still I wonder how your timing could be so thoughtlessly counterproductive.
As far as I'm concerned neither your question nor my answer is worth our additional time. We have much to celebrate !
Do not fret over the particulars of the schemes of the many and eager small minded adversaries. They and their words are nothing more than money can buy.
It's about the millions of voters we want to attract to Ron Paul
My comment was not about distraction, or hesitancy to give, or an indictment of Fawkes the person or V the movie. I know media people, and the first question one will ask upon hearing that Paul received 2-3 million in one day, is 'why that day?' If the answer spreads, it will not matter whether you or I have a logical answer for that. I simply have concern because though some have said good publicity/bad publicity doesn't matter, the handler who put Mike Dukakis in a tank wouldn't concur. Perception is powerful in an inattentive society. My money's coming tomorrow of course. Best wishes to the Champion of the Constitution.
-JP
November 5th
It doesn't matter about V or Guy day or any of that. Look at it as Ron Paul Day. Never mind all that. It's just distractions. Give your $100 or more, and then let's see what happens It's that simple.
Please read my post . . .
"For those who STILL have reservations about donating on Nov. 5th" for more info. No, better yet, I'll re-post it here for you. It's text reads as follows:
Here's a few articles (with accompanying photos and videos) about a staunchly pro-Constitution (and anti-violence) organization (We The People Foundation for Constitutional Education or WTP) that used the SAME "V" character from the SAME movie at this SAME time last year (Nov. 6 and 14) in their battle to restore our constitutional rights and liberties:
http://www.givemeliberty.... (scroll down to "V for Vendetta)
http://www.givemeliberty....
http://www.givemeliberty.... (has photos from the movie)
http://www.givemeliberty.... (photos and a video)
http://www.givemeliberty.... (photos)
http://www.wethepeoplefou... (photos and a video)
WTP's rationale for using "V" is explained in the first article above. Here's an excerpt:
"Everyone in the Patriot community will relate closely to the [movie's] compelling story line that it is Government that must Fear the People.
It is an “anti-government” movie where good overcomes evil. . . . Some may be offended at one or two aspects of the film, but they will have to look past those parts to the larger good the movie serves and the compelling messages of Liberty and personal responsibility in the battles against government tyranny and fascism."
To my knowledge, there was none of the negative fallout (from WTP's use of "V" in these events) that some Ron Paul supporters have expressed here and on www.fmnn.com recently.
another way to think about it
When is election day 2008? So when is Party Time November 2008? Just a thought
2008 election day is Nov 4 again...
...because of the leap year. Else it'd be Nov 5th, which in 2008 would be the ultimate in irony.
Day after November 4th and day preceding November 6th
...send in your money...
Nov 5th is just day that we want to make History!
November 5th, with its loose tie-in to the V for Vendetta movie is about marketing, pure and simple. Yes, we know that it is Guy Fawkes day in the UK or as Men's News Daily put it, "The British version of Halloween is Guy Fawkes Night, November 5th. " So anyway, the connection is simply for soundbites that actually fit rather well. While Madison or Jefferson are definitely better models---it is hard to gather popular support around a history lesson. I don't think there is the slightest chance of the support raised being confused with the idea that we should bomb anything---any more than the weekly "money bombs" have been confused with terrorism! Most people understand that it is just a MOVIE, good, bad, funny or ugly, whatever. When Schwarzenegger says "hasta la vista baby", they don't suggest that he intends to terminate California!
not really
Look the fact is that Fawkes was a murderous idiot who wanted to replace the corrupt British government with a murderous, corrupt Catholic one like it was before Henry VIII. He was not some freecom loving hero any more than Che Guevara was. And V for vendetta was a crappy, crappy, movie. And also considered one of the most anti-Christian films ever made. So much so, in fact, that even Jewish groups were coming to the defense of Christians to voice their concerns about the movie. I'm all about donating big $$$ to Ron Paul tomorrow, but the fact is that the whole Nov. 5th / guy fawkes was a really lame idea put forth by someone who has a very trendy, superficial understanding of history. p.s. great way to piss off the Christian community, as well. It was a lame idea. But oh well- who cares now. I'm still giving $$$ tomorrow! And we'll make tomorrow famous anyway!
i think you get it
shoot, it's frickin halloween, british style get the heck OVER it!
Well...
I am glad you are aboard, but please look at this as a positive, and somewhat revolutionary act. It should be exciting and fun! The real truth is that Guy Falkes was a Catholic and was fighting pursecution and oppression by the Protestant-controlled government to the point of joining Spainards in fighting against English soldiers. He wanted equal treatment under that law - sound familiar? I just re-watched the "V" movie last week to "get in the mood" and I have to say I didn't see any evidence that it was anti-Christian. Did it condemn religiosity in government and the use of religion to spread the mind control of the powerful men? Absolutely. And, you can't argue that hasn't happened before or not happening all over the earth still today. It was a very effective artistic tool in displaying the single-mindedness of the population that "V" was trying to wake up. But, anti-Christian, I don't think so. (The symbol for the Chancellor was actually similar to an Orthodox Christian symbol back in the middle centuries by the way).
By and by, symbolism of holidays and visual graphics and words change with each recreation. You are part of another recreation! The 5th of November is now part of a message to the establishment (as it was in the movie) Enjoy!!
i disagree, but I'm willing to let it die
i disagree, but I'm willing to let it die, as I'd rather talk about Ron Paul. V was pretty darn anti-christian. The view was definately that Christians want to create a totalitarian state, seize power, suppress civil liberties, exterminate homosexuals, and rule by brute force. Even though no such Christian dictatorship exists on earth (although secular and muslim ones do). The Anglican priest is a pedophile, all Christians in the movie are evil, blah, blah, blah. I thought the movie was fairly crappy compared to Alan Moore's graphic novel off which it was based (so did Moore, in fact). But you can only imagine the outrage that would have followed had the ruling totalitarian state been Jewish and their state symbol a star of david, and .... well, you get the idea. People are just so used to seeing Christians be the evil people in the movie that it doesn't even phase them anymore.
Fawkes didn't want "equal treatment under the law" so much as a return to authoritarian Catholic law that favored his viewpoints and marginalized those he disagreed with. And James the 1st was hardly a top protestant- condemning the puritans and commissioning a bible to displace the Protestant's beloved Geneva bible.
My only point in all this was... Guy fawkes? Guy f-ing fawkes? can't we pick something better? I guess it has a certain trendy, funny, kitch value, but that's about it.
Aw, who cares, though... I'm kind of getting bored just typing this. Ron Paul 2008!!!
Its about overcominga n opressive government, not anarchy.
The Media will spin it for sure, but there is a difference between Anarchy and Standing up for your freedom. This is what V for Vendetta / Guy Fox is all about. They are now trying to say Libertarian = Anarchist?
I have to admit that I did
I have to admit that I did not make the connection when I signed up for 11-5. I just thought it was a day we were all going to make a mass donation. Now that I know, it does not change my plan of action. Donate tomorrow. Donate Big....make it hurt a bit.
The 5th of November was early enough in the month that it would not hurt the campaign too badly to have slow donations for a few days. The 11th, although it is a much better day to donate (in perception) would be many days into the month for the campaign to have slow donations.
The impact that the money will have on the campaign will be substantial. Donate on either day you want. Donate on both days. Donate today if you want to... the main thing is .... donate.
3 Different Sites, Working Together
www.ronpaulmoneybomb.com
www.thisnovember5th.com
www.thisnovember11th.com
the Nov. 5th date was a
I thought the Nov. 5th date was a choice made with a bit of wry humor... I found it kinda fun, and something that would draw attention. You won't get a lot of the "same old" from RP supporters! :-) But of course, different tends to be on the attack foralmost every political issue, bc it represents a change from the status quo.
Someone posted another idea the other day, which I thought may have been a better choice *only* because it would be much harder to ridicule.
That idea was for a money bomb on Nov. 11th - Veterans Day. That could have been put out there as support for those who fought for our freedom in the past, AND support for the troops at war now, along with the message that the troops are dying in an illegal, unwinnable war & need to come home NOW.
Given RPs anti-war stance & that some people like to say those against the war are against the troops - Nov. 11th would have been a good choice.
just my .02
Every Day
Every day would make a good day to donate. Having a certain day to shoot for gives the donation more meaning, and if it has theme to it, even better. Thats why we need to start on the next theme. I've suggested Dec 16th which mentioned in another posting is Boston Tea Party day. What a better way to celebrate this moment by another donation drive based on this theme.
BUT THYE VADILIZED TEH
BUT THYE VADILIZED TEH ENGLISHSHES SHIPS THAT DAY!!! OH NOES PEOPLE WILL THINKI WEER HOODLUMINOUS VANDALS!!!
If the pro November 5th people didn't outnumber the others I'd be having second thoughts about our groups self government philosophy.
Yep.
5th has run away with it though...
But the 11th is also being advertised...
LOL - I quietly suspect after the 5th of november...
The owner of the site, will change it to the 11th of november, and send out an email to all those already signed up.. What is it, 15,000! +++
Going to be big.
V for Vendetta was chosen because..
the plot of the movie is that the government has become corrupt and is creating fear in the population to obtain obedience, while stripping it of its' freedoms. sound familiar?
YES
treber is right on the money.
"When the government fears the people, you have liberty. When the people fear the government, you have tyranny." ~ Thomas Jefferson
"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy" ~ James Madison
"The people always have some champion whom they set over them and nurse into greatness. This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when he first appears he is a protector." ~ Plato
Yes Yes Yes
did i say YES!!!
Forefathers would have made V for Vendetta
a bestseller, a hit, a movie of the decade.
V for Vendetta is not about anarchy, it's about revolution from a police communist/fascist state.
We should not be asked if were anarchist, we should be asking the media and our elitist leaders why theyre so far from our founding father views and why they support socialism, communism, fascism.
Also I would like to ask them why they have so little respect for the rule of law. They are the anarchist.
Were not the lawbreakers, they are.
THIS is the definitive answer
I think they chose November 5th as a marketing gimmick, because they could grab clips that were already marketing a date and could stick in their own videos of Ron Paul on the big screens. Remember, these are amateur video producers, these guys just chose a video they thought would fly on youtube. Kind of like how someone for Obama used 1984 movie commercial Apple used. The date sells itself, I'm sure if they had chosen another day that had better sound bites and video they would have used it. I'm currently working with someone else to get audio clips from veterans day remembrance videos ie. "The eleventh month, of the eleventh day, of the eleventh hour...."
So in summary, it was just a noob/amateur inexperience choosing the "cool free professional video and audio!!!" factor over practicality and rationality not thinking what it really meant to choose that video clip.
SOMEBODY GET ME IN CONTACT
SOMEBODY GET ME IN CONTACT WITH WHOEVER MADE THISNOVEMBER5th!!!!! Please Please message me.
Guy Fawkes News Day.
Bill O'Reilly is going to hold a public showtrial for us.
He will torture us with his hatefilled monologues and dreadful talking points.
He's going to portray us as revolutionary anarchists, determined to violently
overthrow the US government and plunge everything into chaos.
Oh god, rhetorically hanged, drawn and quartered by a tv neocon
cheerleader. what a horrible thought.
Let's rather donate all our money to George Bush on december 25th.
Noone would draw a connection to our revolution, us being fed up with an oppressive government, money bombs or the fifth of november.
They would probably think that george bush is our personal jesus and we would get plenty of positive coverage by the neocon media.
Hurray for Fawkes News Day.
Fawkes killed himself before being drawn and quartered
Actually, Fawkes avoided being drawn and quartered alive by jumping off the scaffold and snapping is neck first.
No, I think the day was ideally chosen. People in the Commonwealth have respect for him.
They often say "Guy Fawkes is the only man who ever entered Parliament with honorable intentions".
They mean that government should be reduced, not literally blown up.
Guy just tried to do literally what all freedom lovers want to do figuratively, which is to reduce government.
Today is what you make of it
If we join forces, this Nov 5th will forever be remembered in American history as the day people spoke out for liberty from government oppression and put their money where their hearts are.
Today is what you make of it
If we join forces, this Nov 5th will forever be remembered in American history as the day people spoke out for liberty from government oppression and put their money where their hearts are.
Don't think so much about it
The average American has not studied Austrian economics, or any other form of economics; nor does the average American know the difference between Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton.
The simple point of V for Vendetta: it's time for a change.
The simple elaboration: we need to restore our value for
individual liberty because it looks like we're headed towards
too much power in the hands of the government.
sure, there will be some...
And because of it, I originally had my doubts as well... But decided money was money... :)
Further the campaign is going along with it now, so they must think it's all good...
Furthermore... That connection will likely cause even more publicity. No such thing as bad publicity. The more they attack us, the more ground that we gain...