Questions on what guns to buy

if you want a cheap (and good) .22 pistol check out the Heritage Rough Rider model, single action 6 shot that takes .22 long or magnum, nice weapon and very inexpensive ($180 new). shotguns are a good choice too as are .22 rifles but I personally went with an AR-15, they're expensive if you buy it complete but if you buy the peices and assemble it yourself you can do it for under $500 (AR15.com has all the info you need to do this)...

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would ba a 12ga shotgun and a variety of shells from slugs to buckshot to birdshot.

While the range of the shotgun is fairly limited to generally about 50 yards or less for best effectiveness, with the correct selection of shotshells it can take any form of game on this continent and protect you well in close quarters.

It is the ONLY gun that allows taking birds in flight, which may be very important for survival purposes.
With other small shot, you could take squirrels and rabbits and larger birds like geese. With slightly larger shot, you're good for dogs, coyotes, woodchucks, etc. With buckshot you have a selection of buckshot sizes for the deer or larger animals, and also for defending against human aggressors. Slugs offer a little bit more range, out to maybe a hundred yards or even a little more if you're a good shot, and can take bear, big deer, elk, or whatever is within range. Slugs are also fine for self defense, and offer more range than buckshot, but require a bit better marksmanship.

Shotguns can be found relatively cheap, are easy to maintain and don't break terribly often.
It is the most versatile gun available of all. But you have to have the variety of shotshell loads to take advantage of the versatility, so the ammo is the key with the shotgun.

The only things it lacks are longer range capability, and the ability to penetrate better body armor than Level II(the lowest level of body armor). it will not penetrate level III, or IIIA or IV body armor.

A .22 is an excellent first gun and will serve you well for small game hunting. Ammo is inexpensive and easily available.

For home based self-defense, I'm going to go a different route than all the .44mag and .357 guys below --- get a 12-gauge with some buckshot. The stopping power is amazing and you don't have to be a good shot to use it... and when your life is on the line, you might not remember to practice proper handgun marksmanship. The added benefit of a 12-gauge is that you can also use it with birdshot for hunting other small game or you can use it with slugs for hunting large game. I would recommend everyone own at least one shotgun in either 12 or 20 gauge. I feel pretty strongly that this is truly the best choice for home based personal defense.

Beyond that... depending on where you live, you might also be well served with a good high powered rifle. As recommended below, the .308 is a very good choice, as is a .30-06. If you want something with a little less punch that might be easier for some people to handle, the .243 is a good choice.

Silent - Deadly - Unexpected - No Registration - Cheap - Re-usable Ammo
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Also... nothing beats a sawed off shotgun for home invasions.

The wide spread of shot produced by the gun makes it easier to aim and to be used by inexperienced marksmen. A typical self-defense load of buckshot contains 8-27 large lead pellets, resulting in many wound tracks in the target.

Also, unlike a rifle bullet, each pellet of shot is less likely to penetrate walls and hit bystanders. It is favored by law enforcement for its low penetration and high stopping power.

On the other hand, the hit potential of a defensive shotgun is often overstated. The typical defensive shot is typically taken at very close ranges, at which the shot charge expands no more than a few centimetres. This means the shotgun must still be aimed at the target with some care. Balancing this is the fact that shot spreads further upon entering the target, and the multiple wound channels of a defensive load are far more likely to produce a disabling wound than a rifle or handgun

"PunJab! Bring me my checkbook!"

reasonable price on ammo, 22 mag will take down most animals in the USA

http://www.gunpartsguy.co...

you can buy a semiauto matic..rifle with no registration..anywhere!!!

It is a kit and you assemble it (which is good, so you know how to clean it)

I think its called a KAL

here is a discussion on this subject: http://newfreelanders.big...

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Great, down to earthy, real world advice from someone who lived through a SHTF scenario of the type most probable for most people in the US. And absolutely captivating reading to boot.

All the 9 installments are great reading, and most have some gun related stuff in them, but this is the one primarily focused on guns.

For those with no time to read this (In which case, you really are missing out), and just want the shortest possible abstract; even after SHTF, most people still have to go to the store and to work, and there will be enough remaining police presence to make toting rifles and shotguns down the street highly impractical. So a (at least urban and semiurban) survivalist’s primary gun will be a handgun.

I think you cannot go wrong with a handgun in 9mm, preferably a steel gun vs polymer... for one reason, more weight handles recoil better. Not that a 9mm recoil is strong. But for a beginner, it may seem like it.

A Remington 870 pump 12 guage or a Mossgerg 500 12 guage.. or you can go cheaper and get a Maverick Arms 88 Security in 12 guage. They are essentially a mossgerg 500, just badged under a different name.
http://www.maverickarms.c...
They are not bad priced either. Good thing about a shotgun is you can load it up with slugs or buckshot and pack a good whollup. Sure you're limited to about 100 yards or less with these rounds.. and you aren't as accurate as a rifle.. but, it still does the job.

I would stay away from a .22 rifle or handgun. Yes, ammo is cheap, but the round isn't very effective. While it may be a lethal round if you know where to hit the target just right,... there is no assurance that you can always do that. It just doesn't pack much punch at all. It would work great for hunting small game and fun target shooting. Not much else.

An AR15 or AK47 may be a bit pricey for you. An SKS is a great option, as is the Mini 14 that has already been mentioned.

When it comes down to it, the best guns to get are the ones you can afford, and the ones you can handle the best. Getting a gun that's too powerful to the point you cannot control it, is not a good thing. I personally think a .45 acp handgun has less recoil than a .40 S&W. .40 S&W is a very snappy round and if you don't know how to properly grip a handgun to control recoil, it's got a lot of recoil. The same can be said for any gun too. I just hate the .40, though that is what I have lol.

A rifle in .308 is a great choice for long range. It packs quite a bit of punch.

To me, one of the important things to consider is what caliber firearms do the "enemy" forces use? You want a gun taht has a common bullet.

I still think you can't go wrong with an AR15, so long as it's not a junk brand. But they are not cheap by any means. You can dump a lot of money into one, as well as with the accessories you may need for it. The AK47 is a cheaper firearm, well built and ammo is not too pricey for it either. It would be my 2nd vote. 3rd vote would probably be the SKS.

...and your life is on the line, spend a few hundred dollars more and be much better protected, and much more capable of hunting for food. When it really comes down to it, isn't your life and the lives of family members worth spending an extra few hundred dollars on? Plus, if you buy one good rifle you will likely never need any other firearms and can pass it on to your children. In addition, good rifles increase in value over time and can be looked at as an investment.

Get a rifle in .308 caliber, which is the same as a 7.62x51mm NATO.

A good .308 will serve you for a lifetime, and cover almost all situations.

This is one of the most popular calibers worldwide, so if there is ever a shortage of ammo .308 will be one of the most common rounds available. It is also large enough to effectively hunt big game if necessary, and with an accurate rifle, ammo and scope, it is effective out to about a maximum of 1000 meters.

There are many types available depending upon your price range, but I would recommend leaning towards the more accurate bolt action rifles or hunting rifles, such as the Remington 700 series, and a good scope. The 700 series is one of the most accurate and popular rifles manufactured in the US. With such a rifle and some training, not only will you be able to reach out and touch someone at great distances, but will also have a decent chance at hunting. Most bolt action rifles are lighter weight, more reliable, more rugged, have much fewer parts to fail, and are more accurate than most semi-autos.

The bottom line is, if you can deliver your rounds on target at greater distances than an enemy, you will have a much better chance at surviving.

If you are going to have two guns, get a 9mm pistol too, which is also a NATO round, for close personal defense. If you go with the Baretta 92F, which is the standard sidearm of the U.S. military, you can also be sure that parts and ammo will be widely available. The Sig P226 is a better choice and is used by Navy SEALS and many police agencies, but nowhere near as widely as the 92F.

If you've got the money, for heavy firepower and long range, get a Barrett .50 caliber M82A1 semi-auto, also a popular NATO round. These are about 7k, but there will surely be more future legislation to ban or restrict these, and if so, the price will keep going up - so it can be looked at as an investment too.

Now everyone will tell you there are better firearms and calibers, and there certainly are many more specialized calibers and firearms, but if you run out of or can't get to your ammo, then a gun does you no good. The three rounds I suggested, .308, 9mm, and .50 cal, are stockpiled and fit each purpose effectively. There are all kinds of other specialty calibers and brands, but basically if you stick with the most popular you will have the least problems in a pinch; such as a national emergency.

The next step, and just as important, is training, and practice, practice, practice. Take some marksmanship classes. It's almost as important to have experience and know how to shoot well, than even having a gun.

i saved up all the money i made in Iraq. and all of my friends know that i'm a huge gun enthusiast. lately, with the economy in the dumps, i've been getting calls from people saying they know somebody with a gun for sale. so far in the past two weeks i've bought 2 guns for basically half of what they cost brand new. a lot of people don't regularly fire their guns. so when they need money they look at things they feel they don't need. and people seem to feel they don't need them. of course we all know they'd be better off selling that damn tv, but i'm not passing up on these deals.

as for going to a gun store and buying. let me suggest a Romanian WASR. it's basically an AK-47 if you don't want to get technical. i got one brand new for $370 and a used one last week for $400. the used one came with 10 mags, 200 rounds, a new single stage trigger and a new barrel. after having served in the army and in Iraq i appreciate a weapon that fires every time i pull the trigger. which my Colt M4 did not do. so far i have no complaints with these WASR's. the only problem i've had is of my own creation. i failed to clean out the magazines. i didn't realize they to come with packing grease as well. since i took care of that the weapon has worked flawlessly. i had heard the AK wasn't accurate. at 100 meters standing i can put round after round into a 12 inch target using only the iron sights. once again i'm very impressed with how this weapon works.

don't go gun crazy. once you buy a weapon make sure to get plenty of ammo for it before purchasing a new one. you'd be better off with a bat if you don't have bullets

A sten parts kit...then a non compleated receiver...Have someone complete the receiver for you and you have a fully automatic sten...Of course be very careful and discreet with it...A non registered fully auto weapon is a MAJOR felony...

For legal purposes...i DO NOT recomend the above action. :) It IS HIGHLY ILLEGAL!

a flamethrower.

and you can go to a local gun dealer and see how much they will charge to receive the weapon for you - usually around $25. But, I do recommend you check local pawn shops to see what they have available-
http://www.jgsales.com/pr...
http://www.jgsales.com/pr...
http://www.jgsales.com/in...

About the only thing a 22 is good for is target shooting and small game and maybe gun waiving. for self-defense you need something with stopping power. 45. is a man stopper. Even if well armored the shear mass will sweep a man off his feet and perhaps render one unconscious. My recommendation for this caliber, ParaOrdinance45. Recoil will be significant. If that is an issue then 40.cal is good. I like it a lot. The h&k40. served me well. It's a double/single action auto which I prefer to a DA only like the S&W Sigma40. 9mm will bounce off windshields and doesn't offer much in the way of stopping power vs a well armored intruder. But the rounds are cheap and plentiful and 9mm pistols are compact and lightweight.

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and you can even bag a deer with it. Just be sure to use a long rifle with a plain blunt nose and NOT a hollow point. Then shoot the deer in the head. The standard .22 will penetrate the skull while a hollow point will not. Since you are on a tight budget, if you want a rifle with a little more power, then I make the following recommendations:
1. For semi-auto, nothing beats the SKS. It is easy to find one for $250 or less and the ammo is fairly plentiful and moderately priced. It will do a decent job of stopping a person or taking down a deer with hollow point ammo.
2. For tighter budgets, or for economical long range shooting, any of the surplus main battle rifles of WWII will prove more than adequate. A good one would be the Moisin-Nagant carbines which are chambered for the 7.62X54 rimmed Russian which is comparable to a 30-06. You can usually pick one of these bolt action rifles up for $150 or less and surplus ammo is very cheap.
3. Finally, if you are able to get only one gun with the .22, get a shotgun, preferably a 12 gauge. Single shots are available for $100 or less (look in the local pawn shops) and it should be possible to get a good used pump for under $200. Get a range of shotshells from 00 buck to birdshot. You will find that in a survival situation that the shotgun is the most versatile of weapons and serves very well for hunting or home defense.

Shoot the crap out of it. Know it inside and out... This is my rifle, this is my gun...

Yours in Liberty,

Shovel

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote..." ~ Ben Franklin

"The 'cost of freedom' is risk and responsibility..." ~ Me

Always good to have a loss leader.

I think you either made a typo with .22 .223 they are extremely close in diameter but not interchangeable per se. I would not bother with a .22 for defence for 2 reasons. 1. not much stopping power 2. No distance.

The ultimate all around rifle is the Ruger Mini-14 .223
I was in a survivalist group years ago and when we armed up we purchased an Ar-15, a Mini-14 an FN and a couple other that elude me right now. When it all came down to it we voted on the Mini-14 Stainless Steel Ranch Model (grooved for scope) because of price and proven durability.They have the proven M-1 M-14 action that is awesome. They do not rust, almost impossible to jam one. Ammo is reasonable 2-3 hundred per 1000 and it's mil spec. so ammo will be "available" if anything happens.They fly right through most body armor. Oh did I mention that there is a kit to shoot .22 rimfire through them?

A friend bought one to take to the gulf war because he didn't trust the M-16 around all the sand.He was in a tank group.

As far as a side arm I differ from most in that I prefer the Colt Combat Commander .45 cal. Great stopping power and with a heavy ramp/throat can fire lead ball ammo w/o jamming.Plus I have small hand and it feels just right in my hands.

Just my opinion...and then again I'm just an "armchair expert" but at least I know what gunowners group to support.and it sure ain't the NRA

http://www.gunowners.org/

Paper Ballots,Hand Counted At The Precinct Or Bust

Tim,
if a low budget is what you have to work with I would do this.. the sks
is something decent for small money! next I would buy a remington 870 pump 12 gauge shotgun.. then I would go with a glock 22 .40 s&w.
these are about the cheapest and best firearms for the money! remember the sks is not for long range shooting.. it is a battle rifle but the range on this round in not good.. If you then decide to get something for long range to hunt big game or other mamals with I would go with a remington 700 bdl 300 winchester mag. do not saw off your shotgun barrel that is a quick way to go to prison!

.223 and .22 long rifle are entirely different cartridges. I would advise you to study up and take some training from a reputable trainer so we're on the same page.

Going on the premise (based on your price quote) that you mean using a .22 long rifle for both applications, I suggest stepping up the caliber. The .22 long rifle is a versatile caliber, but it is not viable as a reliable defensive caliber. General rule: the smaller your caliber, the tighter your aim has to be in order to be effective. Relative power is a factor, but shot placement means the highest determining factor of success in any case.

I cannot (nor can anyone else here) give you any sound advice on caliber choice because I do not know your level of experience or what you can handle effectively. I could only determine that on a range. You may get a .45 ACP for defense, but if you cannot manage the recoil, if the grip doesn't fit you properly (i.e. over-gunning yourself), then you won't be effective in any case, and now you are out a bunch of money, only to discover that you are more accurate and can effectively handle a 9mm or other caliber. This is likewise the case for a rifle or shotgun.

I can only provide you with general guidelines based on your use requirements.

Stick to a universal caliber (9mm, .40, .45, .38/.357, etc.) so that the ammunition to feed the gun is available anywhere you happen to go.

For long gun, I would try to get a .223 Remington or a .30 caliber variant (.308, 30-06, etc). This is adequate enough for most small to medium game animals, the rounds are easy to find, and it would serve in a defensive capacity if necessary. For the handgun choice, I recommend to students a minimum caliber of 9mm or .38 special (revolvers may be a good idea if you lack the hand strength to properly rack a slide on a semiautomatic). Take some training and experiment under instructor supervision, then choose the largest defensive caliber YOU can accurately, comfortably and effectively handle. Until you have done this, there is little anyone in this forum can do to help you, though I am sure you are about to get a lot of 'armchair expert' opinions.

MW
NRA Training Counselor
Senior Tactical/Defensive Firearms Instructor

I have two Mossberg M590A1 sawed off shotguns. they cost about 400 a piece. easy conceal.

You need to think penetration and ammo avalibility. Ammo which can penetrate body armor and can be easily replaced.

I think an SKS would be a good Idea, it is easy to get and cheap. It fires a 7.62mm round which will defeat most body armor.

Always collect spent shell casings, as you may find ammo in short supply and gun powder and lead is much cheaper than an entire bullet.

especially when they are outlawed when martial law is declared.