Someone missed the MAYFLOWER, or are we still back in ENGLAND. circa:1600's. WE left that Country to get away from a GOV'T established religion. NOT all the signers of the Declaration of Independance were professing Chritians. THEY all got along quite well. Besides, GOD sets the thrones here on earth not man, if you believe his WORD,( synonimous for JESUS). Anyway faith comes from above ,it is not yours until GOD imparts it to you. IT is the gift of GOD & the proof of HIS existance .HUMAN NATURE would never invent such a story to give up free will living. ALL men love to control their own destiny. SO come on JESSE lets take it to the PUBLIC in MINN. Remember people: DIV & CONQ.
Don't fall into that one. LET'S GET TOGETHER, AYE
TLF
The Founders managed to write the Constitution and get it ratified although some were religious and some were as close to atheist as anyone was back then. Surely we can follow their example and keep religion out of the continuation of the Revolution. Just stop posting about it. Keep it in the closet, like JC said to do.
you people don't stop bashing people of faith....calling them "self-righteous"..."weak minded"..."idiots"...i have not once called anyone a derogatory name here...yet, the same is not given by those who just want to bash people of faith. i can argue (in the definition of debating) a point, and agree to disagree, and not call people derogatory names. this is the whole point about Jesse Ventura too...
I don't even care what you're thread is about. You are like a little yappy dog at this point. Michael was right to put a stop to it and, I fear, he will be putting a stop to you too. So, please just stop.
Because Jesse isn't in here trying to brainwash everybody into thinking his way like you are. You said what you had to say, isn't that enough? No obviously not because you're a FRAUD!
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson
where Rick Warren (Purpose Driven Life) stands? He was on Glenn Beck tonight and sounded pretty good. But a whole lot of neocons "sound" pretty good. Can't go by that.
About how Jesse Ventura needs to apologize for offending Christians. Usually stuff like that just burns itself out, but this just kept coming back...So I turned the comments off.
i cannot help that some wanted to turn it into a character assassination of all people of faith.
it is a point that most Christians hold about Jesse Ventura. why should Jesse Ventura after making those comments in 1999 be allowed or wanted at the Ron Paul rally in Minnesota? it makes no sense why Ron Paul would put a 'stumbling block' for Christians on stage. Christians should be welcomed to help defend the Constitution also...not insulted along the way. Ron Paul would never do anything like that.
Why should Chuck Baldwin be invited, when his party believes in the Constitution, but with a twist of their religion that many of us do not believe in guiding the making of the laws?
It is called freedom. Nobody 'owes' anyone an explanation or apology for their beliefs. I don't expect you to apologize to me for pushing your beliefs so rudely, which I disagree with. I don't expect you to push your beliefs on me against my will, I will not push my beliefs on you against your will or without an invitation into confrontation. When you push the belief in God on people like you do, you should expect them to become resentful.
Jesse made 'divisive' comments that divides people of faith from people of non-faith. to ask that Jesse Ventura rectifies that, to remove the 'rift' that he made before he represents the 'Revolution' for the Constitution is not asking to much. Chuck Baldwin never did this nor has Ron Paul ever done anything to cause division like that. that is the point, and it is a legitimate one. go back and see the reaction that people of faith had to Jesse's comments in 1999, you will see what i mean. this is not a personal vendetta against him. because actually i like Jesse's boldness. whether or not i agree with him. but i know of lots and lots of people of faith that would not come to any function that Jesse Ventura was at because of those comments he made, even if the function Jesse was apart of, was what these people wanted to support.
if Jesse Ventura wasn't a media magnet this would not have been a subject Michael would have axed.
Patrick Henry:
“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
Jesse didn't do that, you did by labeling it as such and you think if you keep saying it it will become true. You're no better that what you claim to be against.
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson
he said, to 'dissent,' if you will. You also have the right to ignore him. In fact, in religion or out of religion, we all have the right of choice to 'forgive' or 'not to forgive'. None of us have the right to force another to change his stance on that which he believes. All of us have the ability to accept the beliefs of others as exactly that - their beliefs. No one is required to agree. We are all on the same side in regards to government standing for those freedoms. We all have our own beliefs toward religion and whether it is a good thing or a bad thing. One should not interfere with the other.
Our mission at hand is to restore that freedom, if it means banding together with those that we disagree with to do so, then that is what we must do. I do not expect Baldwin to not be invited because of his beliefs, nor do I expect Ventura to not be invited because of his.
In short, you have a right to your opinion, he has a right to his, none of us have the right to force the other to change because of our own beliefs.
ask someone to recant that which they said that was not true or sue them for libel. did you know that the 'religious' founding fathers of our country stood up and fought the 'Super Power' of the world at the time and won? it is just dead wrong for Jesse Ventura to call them 'weak' or 'weak minded'- people, don't you think?
i want to be left alone by my government. i want to raise my family in the ways of the LORD and not the world and people should not be in my business of how i do that.
i want to be secure in my property without ANY government agency from tax collectors to safety/code inspectors to police 'safety checkpoints" threatening me and my freedom. security in my money (that i have worked VERY hard for), which is one of the roles of government...to keep weights and measures of any kind, including money, from becoming 'unjust'. security in my family and i having privacy in all things. whether it be my medical records, financial records...the government should not have any records, except maybe criminal records. everywhere you look, in everything and every transaction, the government is there either to take your money or to tell you how you must live by their rules (and i'm not even talking breaking criminal laws here).
but remember he has the right to refuse and stand his ground. I would guess the choices to be made, lie in him, and in the Christians. I don't agree that publicly saying that was the right thing to do, but it may be his real belief that he stands by, or it may have been said in the heat of the moment, the latter in which an apology would be wise. But again that is up to him.
He didn't, He called you weak-minded and said you like to stick you nose in other peoples business. Which is true. If you're the one to take exception to it then you're the one he's talking about.
No, he spoke ill of only those who would take exception to it. That being you, and when you look at why he made those comments and look at you. It all makes sense. You're insulted because he is talking about you. He called you out for something you do and now this is your blowback! You are the reason, I could never call myself a Christian. The nerve of the likes of you to think you've cornered the market the All Mighty.
the truth about Jesse....for Jesse and your argument will be the reason people of faith will not be part of the Revolution. which was and has been my whole point. and i thought freedom brought people together...hehehe....not without a little responsibility.
Character assassination??? No character assassination ever need be done to a hypocrite. Your character is stillborn. This issue is between you and Jessie you have no right to impose your position on anyone else. Out of all the Christians or people of religion who chimed in you are the only one to take exception so the issue is yours and yours alone.
Your point is that because of one person's statement a whole group of people will automatically walk away from freedom because it does not fit their ideologue to a tee. Holy cow! I guess the dems will win because after all you must be clinging to your gun and religion - sounds Obamaesque to me. Leave it to the religious to prove the very point that they miss. As for me, keep the religion but leave me my gun.
He represents the CONSTITUTION not necessarily people of faith. Maybe these people of faith need to be smacked over the head to understand that the CONSTITUTION allows them to have their faith and worship as they please. Not to mandate others nor legislate so that their faith (bible) is the rule of law but the CONSTITUTION is the rule of law. So much effort has been put in combining the two that they are almost indistinguishable in people's mind but in reality are two different creatures - and if I may, I think this is a huge reason these threads should stay because clearly in 2008 religion and politics are almost inseparrable to many people. The CONSTITUTION is a form of governance of people not a religious zealotry to be prostelized in the form of governance. "go back and see the reaction that people of faith had to Jesse's comments in 1999," So by logic Jesse MUST pander to the religous (right is it, or moderate?) to be allowed to speak of CONSTITUTIONAL freedom. I am sure somewhere he picked on the gays, blacks, jews, muslims, hindus, chinese, Floridians, Californians, should he apologize to them as well. Sometimes the "right" needs thicker skin becasue screaming GOD and I BELIEVE everytime leads to the boy who cried wolf syndrome.
Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]
Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]
John Quincy Adams:
“The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61
Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.
“Whether our religion permits Christians to vote for infidel rulers is a question which merits more consideration than it seems yet to have generally received either from the clergy or the laity. It appears to me that what the prophet said to Jehoshaphat about his attachment to Ahab ["Shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord?" 2 Chronicles 19:2] affords a salutary lesson.” [The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, 1794-1826, Henry P. Johnston, editor (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1893), Vol. IV, p.365]
Jedediah Morse:
"To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys. . . . Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow from them, must fall with them."
Thomas Paine:
“ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”
“ The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.” “The Existence of God--1810”
Justice Joseph Story:
“ I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. . . There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations.”
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]
“ Infidels and pagans were banished from the halls of justice as unworthy of credit.” [Life and letters of Joseph Story, Vol. II 1851, pp. 8-9.]
“ At the time of the adoption of the constitution, and of the amendment to it, now under consideration [i.e., the First Amendment], the general, if not the universal sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state, so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship.”
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]
George Washington:
"...reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle..."
believers. You insult us consistently by saying that we lack morals and are essentially not good people.You keep posting here on DP quotes, statements, and insinuations that Atheists and the non religious have no moral compass.
Here is a paragraph from a Christopher Hitchens column.
"I should like, for the continued vigor of this discussion, to repeat the challenge that I have several times offered the faithful in print and on the air. I am still waiting, after several months, for a response to this. It carries an incidental corollary: I have also asked large and divergent audiences if they can think of a wicked action or statement that derived directly from religious faith, and you know what? There is no tongue-tied silence at THAT point.Everybody can instantly think of an example."
Answer the question. "Can they(YOU) name a moral statement or action, uttered or performed by a religious person, that could not have been uttered or performed by an unbeliever?"
Also, I would like to read your response, or your thoughts on the whole column. link here: http://newsweek.washingto...
P.S. (I was just kidding about the apology, I would never demand it, because I believe in free speech and that people can state whatever opinions or beliefs they have.)
STOP it damn
I though Michael kill that thread. Then you guys start flaming up again. I wouldn't be surprised is he comes down and smites this thread too.
stop it
Someone missed the MAYFLOWER, or are we still back in ENGLAND. circa:1600's. WE left that Country to get away from a GOV'T established religion. NOT all the signers of the Declaration of Independance were professing Chritians. THEY all got along quite well. Besides, GOD sets the thrones here on earth not man, if you believe his WORD,( synonimous for JESUS). Anyway faith comes from above ,it is not yours until GOD imparts it to you. IT is the gift of GOD & the proof of HIS existance .HUMAN NATURE would never invent such a story to give up free will living. ALL men love to control their own destiny. SO come on JESSE lets take it to the PUBLIC in MINN. Remember people: DIV & CONQ.
Don't fall into that one. LET'S GET TOGETHER, AYE
TLF
atheism...is a religion too...
...why should it be shoved down everyone's throat and supported by tax dollars?
If atheism is a religion...
... what do you call the absence of a religion?
The Founders managed to write the Constitution and get it ratified although some were religious and some were as close to atheist as anyone was back then. Surely we can follow their example and keep religion out of the continuation of the Revolution. Just stop posting about it. Keep it in the closet, like JC said to do.
Name one atheist
Name one atheist organization that is government funded and tax exempt.
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson
Stop.
___________
Lisa C.
www.dvds4delegates.com=Ron Paul, the 44th U.S. President
“Elections are short term efforts; revolutions are long term projects.”
--Ron Paul
Join the rEVOLution here: www.campaignforliberty.com
why Lisa?
you people don't stop bashing people of faith....calling them "self-righteous"..."weak minded"..."idiots"...i have not once called anyone a derogatory name here...yet, the same is not given by those who just want to bash people of faith. i can argue (in the definition of debating) a point, and agree to disagree, and not call people derogatory names. this is the whole point about Jesse Ventura too...
I'm not bashing people of
I'm not bashing people of faith. Just you.
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson
I haven't even been on this thread chrix x and you know it, so
don't say "you people".
I don't even care what you're thread is about. You are like a little yappy dog at this point. Michael was right to put a stop to it and, I fear, he will be putting a stop to you too. So, please just stop.
___________
Lisa C.
www.dvds4delegates.com=Ron Paul, the 44th U.S. President
“Elections are short term efforts; revolutions are long term projects.”
--Ron Paul
Join the rEVOLution here: www.campaignforliberty.com
lisa on that I think
lisa on that I think Christopher is right!
as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD
Not arguing whether or not he is "right".
Just to stop, like Michael asked.
Did he ask or did he just pull the plug?
___________
Lisa C.
www.dvds4delegates.com=Ron Paul, the 44th U.S. President
“Elections are short term efforts; revolutions are long term projects.”
--Ron Paul
Join the rEVOLution here: www.campaignforliberty.com
this is the whole point, Lisa...
why am i TOLD to stop...yet Jesse Ventura can say what he wishes?
Because Jesse isn't here on a privately-owned forum and you are.
___________
Lisa C.
www.dvds4delegates.com=Ron Paul, the 44th U.S. President
“Elections are short term efforts; revolutions are long term projects.”
--Ron Paul
Join the rEVOLution here: www.campaignforliberty.com
private forum = loss of 1st Amendment free speech?
you sound like the Republican party hierarchy....heh...
Because Jesse isn't in here
Because Jesse isn't in here trying to brainwash everybody into thinking his way like you are. You said what you had to say, isn't that enough? No obviously not because you're a FRAUD!
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson
Anyone know
where Rick Warren (Purpose Driven Life) stands? He was on Glenn Beck tonight and sounded pretty good. But a whole lot of neocons "sound" pretty good. Can't go by that.
that guy is a moron.. stay
that guy is a moron.. stay away from him! If i'm not mistaken he is one of bushs sprititual gurus!
as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD
You are right
_________________________________
My liberty-minded home base of thought:
www.ponderthis.net
For a little while
For a little while anyway...
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when humans argue or debate,
when humans argue or debate, it rids the soul of built up questions. It is healthy for the soul.
MY YOUTUBE http://www.youtube.com/us...
MY WEB SITE http://www.InfoSpill.com
The suspense is killing me ;)....
http://www.campaignforlib...
What's this in reference
What's this in reference to..?
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Kevin
It was this thread:
http://www.dailypaul.com/...
About how Jesse Ventura needs to apologize for offending Christians. Usually stuff like that just burns itself out, but this just kept coming back...So I turned the comments off.
No kidding..
Thank you VERY much!
Thank you for that act of mercy
Thank you indeed!
i had a legitimate point Michael...
i cannot help that some wanted to turn it into a character assassination of all people of faith.
it is a point that most Christians hold about Jesse Ventura. why should Jesse Ventura after making those comments in 1999 be allowed or wanted at the Ron Paul rally in Minnesota? it makes no sense why Ron Paul would put a 'stumbling block' for Christians on stage. Christians should be welcomed to help defend the Constitution also...not insulted along the way. Ron Paul would never do anything like that.
And likewise
Why should Chuck Baldwin be invited, when his party believes in the Constitution, but with a twist of their religion that many of us do not believe in guiding the making of the laws?
It is called freedom. Nobody 'owes' anyone an explanation or apology for their beliefs. I don't expect you to apologize to me for pushing your beliefs so rudely, which I disagree with. I don't expect you to push your beliefs on me against my will, I will not push my beliefs on you against your will or without an invitation into confrontation. When you push the belief in God on people like you do, you should expect them to become resentful.
this is the reason...
Jesse made 'divisive' comments that divides people of faith from people of non-faith. to ask that Jesse Ventura rectifies that, to remove the 'rift' that he made before he represents the 'Revolution' for the Constitution is not asking to much. Chuck Baldwin never did this nor has Ron Paul ever done anything to cause division like that. that is the point, and it is a legitimate one. go back and see the reaction that people of faith had to Jesse's comments in 1999, you will see what i mean. this is not a personal vendetta against him. because actually i like Jesse's boldness. whether or not i agree with him. but i know of lots and lots of people of faith that would not come to any function that Jesse Ventura was at because of those comments he made, even if the function Jesse was apart of, was what these people wanted to support.
if Jesse Ventura wasn't a media magnet this would not have been a subject Michael would have axed.
Patrick Henry:
“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
Jesse didn't do that, you
Jesse didn't do that, you did by labeling it as such and you think if you keep saying it it will become true. You're no better that what you claim to be against.
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson
In freedom, you have a right to not accept what
he said, to 'dissent,' if you will. You also have the right to ignore him. In fact, in religion or out of religion, we all have the right of choice to 'forgive' or 'not to forgive'. None of us have the right to force another to change his stance on that which he believes. All of us have the ability to accept the beliefs of others as exactly that - their beliefs. No one is required to agree. We are all on the same side in regards to government standing for those freedoms. We all have our own beliefs toward religion and whether it is a good thing or a bad thing. One should not interfere with the other.
Our mission at hand is to restore that freedom, if it means banding together with those that we disagree with to do so, then that is what we must do. I do not expect Baldwin to not be invited because of his beliefs, nor do I expect Ventura to not be invited because of his.
In short, you have a right to your opinion, he has a right to his, none of us have the right to force the other to change because of our own beliefs.
you do have the Right to...
ask someone to recant that which they said that was not true or sue them for libel. did you know that the 'religious' founding fathers of our country stood up and fought the 'Super Power' of the world at the time and won? it is just dead wrong for Jesse Ventura to call them 'weak' or 'weak minded'- people, don't you think?
RED FLAG
"don't you think?"
Delphi much fraud?
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson
Chris..... you need to learn
Chris..... you need to learn that you attract more flys with honey then vinagar! Ron Pauls approach to Christianity is right!
as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD
sierra...i do not want to catch flies...
i want to be left alone by my government. i want to raise my family in the ways of the LORD and not the world and people should not be in my business of how i do that.
i want to be secure in my property without ANY government agency from tax collectors to safety/code inspectors to police 'safety checkpoints" threatening me and my freedom. security in my money (that i have worked VERY hard for), which is one of the roles of government...to keep weights and measures of any kind, including money, from becoming 'unjust'. security in my family and i having privacy in all things. whether it be my medical records, financial records...the government should not have any records, except maybe criminal records. everywhere you look, in everything and every transaction, the government is there either to take your money or to tell you how you must live by their rules (and i'm not even talking breaking criminal laws here).
enough is enough.
Enough is enough my ass.
Now your just a plain old liar. you obviously haven't had enough or this would be a dead topic.
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson
I would guess you do have the right to ask,
but remember he has the right to refuse and stand his ground. I would guess the choices to be made, lie in him, and in the Christians. I don't agree that publicly saying that was the right thing to do, but it may be his real belief that he stands by, or it may have been said in the heat of the moment, the latter in which an apology would be wise. But again that is up to him.
He didn't, He called you
He didn't, He called you weak-minded and said you like to stick you nose in other peoples business. Which is true. If you're the one to take exception to it then you're the one he's talking about.
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No, he spoke ill of only
No, he spoke ill of only those who would take exception to it. That being you, and when you look at why he made those comments and look at you. It all makes sense. You're insulted because he is talking about you. He called you out for something you do and now this is your blowback! You are the reason, I could never call myself a Christian. The nerve of the likes of you to think you've cornered the market the All Mighty.
Michael, you can kill this one too anytime.
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yep, here comes the character assasination again for upholding..
the truth about Jesse....for Jesse and your argument will be the reason people of faith will not be part of the Revolution. which was and has been my whole point. and i thought freedom brought people together...hehehe....not without a little responsibility.
Character assassination???
Character assassination??? No character assassination ever need be done to a hypocrite. Your character is stillborn. This issue is between you and Jessie you have no right to impose your position on anyone else. Out of all the Christians or people of religion who chimed in you are the only one to take exception so the issue is yours and yours alone.
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impose a position?
Jesse did that...as governor
Say's you, you
Say's you, you self-righteous bastard.
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson
hmmm...name calling again...just for having a truthful point...
"Character assassination??? No character assassination ever need be done to a hypocrite."
bastard?-yes...
self-righteous? no...
Yes you are... "I tremble
Yes you are...
"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson
Twist and shout
Your point is that because of one person's statement a whole group of people will automatically walk away from freedom because it does not fit their ideologue to a tee. Holy cow! I guess the dems will win because after all you must be clinging to your gun and religion - sounds Obamaesque to me. Leave it to the religious to prove the very point that they miss. As for me, keep the religion but leave me my gun.
sounds like the Constitution and...
Ron Paul to me...
Missing one part
He represents the CONSTITUTION not necessarily people of faith. Maybe these people of faith need to be smacked over the head to understand that the CONSTITUTION allows them to have their faith and worship as they please. Not to mandate others nor legislate so that their faith (bible) is the rule of law but the CONSTITUTION is the rule of law. So much effort has been put in combining the two that they are almost indistinguishable in people's mind but in reality are two different creatures - and if I may, I think this is a huge reason these threads should stay because clearly in 2008 religion and politics are almost inseparrable to many people. The CONSTITUTION is a form of governance of people not a religious zealotry to be prostelized in the form of governance. "go back and see the reaction that people of faith had to Jesse's comments in 1999," So by logic Jesse MUST pander to the religous (right is it, or moderate?) to be allowed to speak of CONSTITUTIONAL freedom. I am sure somewhere he picked on the gays, blacks, jews, muslims, hindus, chinese, Floridians, Californians, should he apologize to them as well. Sometimes the "right" needs thicker skin becasue screaming GOD and I BELIEVE everytime leads to the boy who cried wolf syndrome.
the founder's of the Constitution answered your question...
Charles Carroll - signer of the Declaration of Independence
" Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion, whose morality is so sublime and pure...are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments." [Source: To James McHenry on November 4, 1800.]
Benjamin Franklin: | Portrait of Ben Franklin
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech
“In the beginning of the contest with Britain, when we were sensible of danger, we had daily prayers in this room for Divine protection. Our prayers, Sir, were heard, and they were graciously answered… do we imagine we no longer need His assistance?” [Constitutional Convention, Thursday June 28, 1787]
John Quincy Adams:
“The Law given from Sinai [The Ten Commandments] was a civil and municipal as well as a moral and religious code.”
John Quincy Adams. Letters to his son. p. 61
Patrick Henry:
"Orator of the Revolution."
“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” [May 1765 Speech to the House of Burgesses]
John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.
“Whether our religion permits Christians to vote for infidel rulers is a question which merits more consideration than it seems yet to have generally received either from the clergy or the laity. It appears to me that what the prophet said to Jehoshaphat about his attachment to Ahab ["Shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord?" 2 Chronicles 19:2] affords a salutary lesson.” [The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, 1794-1826, Henry P. Johnston, editor (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1893), Vol. IV, p.365]
Jedediah Morse:
"To the kindly influence of Christianity we owe that degree of civil freedom, and political and social happiness which mankind now enjoys. . . . Whenever the pillars of Christianity shall be overthrown, our present republican forms of government, and all blessings which flow from them, must fall with them."
Thomas Paine:
“ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”
“ The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.” “The Existence of God--1810”
Justice Joseph Story:
“ I verily believe Christianity necessary to the support of civil society. One of the beautiful boasts of our municipal jurisprudence is that Christianity is a part of the Common Law. . . There never has been a period in which the Common Law did not recognize Christianity as lying its foundations.”
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]
“ Infidels and pagans were banished from the halls of justice as unworthy of credit.” [Life and letters of Joseph Story, Vol. II 1851, pp. 8-9.]
“ At the time of the adoption of the constitution, and of the amendment to it, now under consideration [i.e., the First Amendment], the general, if not the universal sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive encouragement from the state, so far as was not incompatible with the private rights of conscience, and the freedom of religious worship.”
[Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States p. 593]
George Washington:
"...reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle..."
Hey Christopher X!! I demand an apology NOW, from you to non
believers. You insult us consistently by saying that we lack morals and are essentially not good people.You keep posting here on DP quotes, statements, and insinuations that Atheists and the non religious have no moral compass.
Here is a paragraph from a Christopher Hitchens column.
"I should like, for the continued vigor of this discussion, to repeat the challenge that I have several times offered the faithful in print and on the air. I am still waiting, after several months, for a response to this. It carries an incidental corollary: I have also asked large and divergent audiences if they can think of a wicked action or statement that derived directly from religious faith, and you know what? There is no tongue-tied silence at THAT point.Everybody can instantly think of an example."
Answer the question. "Can they(YOU) name a moral statement or action, uttered or performed by a religious person, that could not have been uttered or performed by an unbeliever?"
Also, I would like to read your response, or your thoughts on the whole column. link here:
http://newsweek.washingto...
P.S. (I was just kidding about the apology, I would never demand it, because I believe in free speech and that people can state whatever opinions or beliefs they have.)
PSS...
take it up with the founders of our country...argue with them.