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Core & Headline Inflation Up...Gold & Silver Down...

I am a trader, quite used to the 5-year old on the playground mentality of market participants. With this said, I am flabbergasted at how Gold & Silver can sink on such bad inflationary figures. I mean WTF? The dollar looks better because the other currencies are also experiencing rising inflation coupled with loss of purchasing power but nothing is really getting better and foreclosure rates just jumped by 55%!. Still, somehow this is being seen as bearish for precious metals? Go figure....

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all this means is more instability

Jim

All this means more instability. I think it's better to hold a hard asset like gold that will always retain value, Rather than trying to figure out which way the inflation-deflation debate will go. If they're playing with paper money while not producing value, BAD things are going to happen. I'd rather have a tangible asset in my hand in that case.

Have you read Gary North?

Interesting that, when gold peaked last March, Gary North felt like it had reached its peak - he actually wrote an article a day or two after its $1000+ peak - and it's gone down ever since. Other than going to war, he doesn't think we'll see $1000+oz again for at least a couple of years.

See this for the full commentary: http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north646.html

Unwinding long positions with HUGE leverage

This might be at least part of the explanation.

The liquidation of a big hedge fund or investment-bank trading portfolio is wreaking havoc in some parts of the hedge-fund business, managers and investors said Thursday. Black Mesa Capital, a hedge-fund firm that uses computer models to track down investment ideas, said that at least one large hedge fund or investment bank is liquidating "massive" trading portfolios, according to a letter the Santa Fe, N.M.-based firm sent to investors Wednesday.

The warning is causing disruptions and triggering big losses among other so-called market-neutral hedge funds, Black Mesa said in its letter, a copy of which was obtained Thursday by MarketWatch.

"Clearly, something is amiss in the markets that few in our strategy, if anyone, have experienced before," Black Mesa's managers, Dave DeMers and Jonathan Spring, wrote. DeMers declined to comment Thursday.

Wondering what caused the mysterious melt-up in stocks and meltdown in commodities? This article could provide the explanation. If the large hedge fund in question that is supposedly liquidating “massive positions”, and they happened to be long-commodities and short-stocks, then this could explain what we’ve seen lately.

It is also possible that this could have been triggered by the sudden counter-trend movement (rise) in the dollar. At any rate, hedge funds have several trillion dollars in direct deposits to work with but they are leveraged anywhere between 10 times and 40 times (or more) depending on the outfit. So they are controlling a pool of investments/assets that are at least as large as the entire US yearly economic output and possible the entire world.

It wouldn’t take much to create some serious ripples in the water if one (or more) of them ‘blew-up’. At any rate, this is a pretty good article and worth a read.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/portfolio-liquidation-triggers-turmoil-among/story.aspx?guid={9562090F-2CC0-4EE2-ACBF-2688F60061DA}

credit for the above information

The above came to my attention via Chris Martenson, at www.chrismartenson.com
Thanks to Chris, and I recommend anyone check out his Crash course. Excellent.

Slightly Off Topic

It seems like our monetary system has at least 2 potential problems: 1. the currency has no asset(s) backing it; 2. the currency requires interest payments after it is loaned into existence. Although I think both problems are probably fatal to a monetary system, problem #2 may be a particularly nasty flaw in the system, because the interest cannot be repaid since the interest is never created (not to mention the potentially "wasted" productivity that goes into servicing the interest payments).

Based on my statements above, I have a couple questions:
1. Would a fiat monetary system that did not require interest payments be less bad than one in which interest payments were required?
2. Could an asset backed monetary system fail if the currency required interest payments?

Thanks for any info. If any of my statements are incorrect, please let me know (thanks).

RH

“I’m in show business,

“I’m in show business, why come to me?”
“War is show business, that’s why we’re here.”
– “Wag the Dog” (1997 film)

Last week, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had just announced record losses, and so had most reporting corporations. Unemployment was mounting, the foreclosure crisis was deepening, state budgets were in shambles, and massive bailouts were everywhere. Investors had every reason to expect the dollar and the stock market to plummet, and gold and oil to shoot up. Strangely, the Dow Jones Industrial Average gained 300 points, the dollar strengthened, and gold and oil were crushed. What happened?

It hardly took psychic powers to see that the Plunge Protection Team had come to the rescue. Formally known as the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets, the PPT was once concealed and its very existence denied as if it were a matter of strict national security. But the PPT has now come out of the closet. What was once a legally questionable “manipulator” of markets has become a sanctioned stabilizer and protector of markets. The new tone was set in January 2008, when global markets took their worst tumble since September 11, 2001. Senator Hillary Clinton said in a statement reported by the State News Service:

“I think it’s imperative that the following step be taken. The President should have already and should do so very quickly, convene the President’s Working Group on Financial Markets. That’s something that he can ask the Secretary of the Treasury to do. . . . This has to be coordinated across markets with the regulators here and obviously with regulators and central banks around the world.”1

The mystery over what was going on with the dollar the first week in August was solved by James Turk, founder of GoldMoney, who wrote on August 7:

“[T]he banking problems in the United States continue to mount, while the federal government’s deficit continues to soar out of control. . . . So what happened to cause the dollar to rally over the past three weeks? In a word, intervention. Central banks have propped up the dollar, and here’s the proof.

“When central banks intervene in the currency markets, they exchange their currency for dollars. Central banks then use the dollars they acquire to buy US government debt instruments so that they can earn interest on their money. The debt instruments central banks acquire are held in custody for them at the Federal Reserve, which reports this amount weekly.

“On July 16, 2008 . . . , the Federal Reserve reported holding $2,349 billion of US government paper in custody for central banks. In its report released today, this amount had grown over the past three weeks to $2,401 billion, a 38.4% annual rate of growth. . . . So central banks were accumulating dollars over the past three weeks at a rate far above what one would expect as a result of the US trade deficit. The logical conclusion is that they were intervening in currency markets. They were buying dollars for the purpose of propping it up, to keep the dollar from falling off the edge of the cliff and doing so ignited a short covering rally, which is not too difficult to do given the leverage employed in the markets these days by hedge funds and others.”2

Just as central banks manipulate currencies in concert, so gold can be manipulated by massive selling of central bank reserves. Oil and any other market can be manipulated as well. But markets can be manipulated by only so much and for only so long without fixing the underlying problem. There is more bad news coming down the pike, news of such magnitude that no amount of ordinary manipulation is liable to conceal it.

For one thing, roughly $400 billion in ARMs (adjustable rate mortgages) have or will reset between March and October of this year. Assuming 3 to 6 months for strapped debtors to actually hit the wall with their payments, a huge wave of defaults is about to strike, continuing through March 2009 – just in time for the next huge wave of resets, in option ARMs.3 Option ARMs are loans with the option to pay even less than just the interest on the loan monthly, increasing the loan balance until the loan reaches a certain amount (typically 110% to 125% of the original loan balance), when it resets. The $800 billion credit line recently opened to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac may be not only tapped but tapped out, at taxpayer expense. The underlying problem is little discussed but impossible to repair – a one quadrillion dollar derivatives scheme that is now imploding. Banks everywhere are facing massive writeoffs, putting the whole banking system on the brink of collapse. Only public bailouts will save it, but they could bankrupt the nation.

What to do? War and threats of war have been used historically to distract the population and deflect public scrutiny from economic calamity. As the scheme was summed up in the trailer to the 1997 movie “Wag the Dog” --

“There’s a crisis in the White House, and to save the election, they’d have to fake a war.”

Perhaps that explains the sudden breakout of war in the Eurasian country of Georgia on August 8, just 3 months before the November elections. August 8 was the day the Olympic Games began in Beijing, a distraction that may have been timed to keep China from intervening on Russia’s behalf. The mainstream media version of events is that Russia, the bully on the block, invaded its tiny neighbor Georgia; but not all commentators agree. Mikhail Gorbachev, writing in The Washington Post on August 12, observed:

“What happened on the night of Aug. 7 is beyond comprehension. The Georgian military attacked the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali with multiple rocket launchers designed to devastate large areas. Russia had to respond. To accuse it of aggression against ‘small, defenseless Georgia’ is not just hypocritical but shows a lack of humanity. . . . The Georgian leadership could do this only with the perceived support and encouragement of a much more powerful force.”4

Bruce Gagnon, coordinator of the Global Network against Weapons and Nuclear Power, commented in OpEdNews on August 11:

“The U.S. has long been involved in supporting ‘freedom movements’ throughout this region that have been attempting to replace Russian influence with U.S. corporate control. The CIA, National Endowment for Democracy . . . , and Freedom House (includes Zbigniew Brzezinski, former CIA director James Woolsey, and Obama foreign policy adviser Anthony Lake) have been key funders and supporters of placing politicians in power throughout Central Asia that would play ball with ‘our side’. . . . None of this is about the good guys versus the bad guys. It is power bloc politics . . . . Big money is at stake . . . . [B]oth parties (Republican and Democrat) share a bi-partisan history and agenda of advancing corporate interests in this part of the world. Obama’s advisers, just like McCain’s (one of his top advisers was recently a lobbyist for the current government in Georgia) are thick in this stew.”5

Brzezinski, who is now Obama’s adviser, was Jimmy Carter’s foreign policy adviser in the 1970s. He also served in the 1970s as director of the Trilateral Commission, which he co-founded with David Rockefeller Sr., considered by some to be the “master spider” of the Wall Street banking network.6 Brzezinski, who wrote a book called The Grand Chessboard, later boasted of drawing Russia into war with Afghanistan in 1979, “giving to the Soviet Union its Vietnam War.”7 Is the Georgia affair an attempted repeat of that coup? Mike Whitney, a popular Internet commentator, observed on August 11:

“Washington’s bloody fingerprints are all over the invasion of South Ossetia. Georgia President Mikhail Saakashvili would never dream of launching a massive military attack unless he got explicit orders from his bosses at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. After all, Saakashvili owes his entire political career to American power-brokers and US intelligence agencies. If he disobeyed them, he’d be gone in a fortnight. Besides an operation like this takes months of planning and logistical support; especially if it’s perfectly timed to coincide with the beginning of the Olympic games. (another petty neocon touch) That means Pentagon planners must have been working hand in hand with Georgian generals for months in advance. Nothing was left to chance.”8

Part of that careful planning may have been the unprecedented propping up of the dollar and bombing of gold and oil the week before the curtain opened on the scene. Gold and oil had to be pushed down hard to give them room to rise before anyone shouted “hyperinflation!” As we watch the curtain rise on war in Eurasia, it is well to remember that things are not always as they seem. Markets are manipulated and wars are staged by Grand Chessmen behind the scenes.

Translation:Screw whatever deflation explanation you may have....

I have to chuckle at the on

I have to chuckle at the on going argument over deflation vs inflation. The fact is there are both. Yes the real state market is deflating has been since the bubble burst however prices are climbing in food groceries gas etc.

things are at a lull at the moment as banks write down and lower the money supply, however just a soon as they think they can get away with it and they think they have lulled the consumer in thinking all is well and the bump in the road is behind us we will see massive inflation again in real state and other areas.

Think about It what happens with a glut of property on the marketl? Same thing as currency it is devalued.

In the meantime prices will not have gone down for everyday stuff. Of course there are always exceptions but it is laughable to say that gold will not go up because it's going down now. Gold will never be 300 an ounce again I doubt it will see 600 again. But I would love it it if did and silver went to 5 because then I could buy more for less paper ;-). Sure panic buying over prices commodities and they drop some eventually but it is just a dip in the upward trend.

This is why Ron Paul calls where we’re heading an inflationary depression, the money is still created from nothing and they have inflated it to the max and then they deflate a bit and then re-inflate. The real state market has been doing that since the 80’s they will play around in the upper ten percent of the balloon deflating and inflating until finally it looses it elasticity and burst like it just did.

Some traders don’t live in the real world when it come to this, there is an underlying market that exists and has always existed even if the big exchanges go away and that is everyday consumers buying/trading for what they need from where ever they can get it. If all the trading markets went away tomorrow this market will still exist and this is real world and this is where people are experiencing the results of inflation via high prices. Inflation creating high prices then dropping a few cents is not deflation it is still inflation since prices are much higher then they where originally.

Wait till we start seeing the real shortages hit then you will see some drastic inflation. The silver and gold gurus know this and it is why they are predicting gold and silver spiking through the roof. It will happen it’s just a matter of time. The currency is still devaluing despite all the parlor tricks and hand slights don’t be fooled and prepare accordingly especially during these times of false optimism that things have turned around. Don’t get upset about it make the best of it try to enjoy life as much as possible but be prepared.

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exactly Hawk... we are

exactly Hawk... we are seeing inflation and deflation.. Ron Paul himself said it.. stagflation leading into a INFLATIONARY DEPRESSION!
I just don't understand why people can't see it!

as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD

"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson

I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain

Thanks hawkiye

Some of the chart watchers should push away from their screens and take a wide-angled look at the larger picture. Understanding market fundamentals is prerequisite for technical analysis. But most importantly, you are right on that we should enjoy life as much as possible, which requires being in the now.

Hedge fund

Hedge fund momentum-blackboxes, and not brains, rule markets today.

Gold demand and supply establish the price

****

It's important to remember that historically, gold jewelry represents over 60% of the total global demand and industry and dental account for another 20%. Yes, that leaves only around 20% for investment demand.

At the end of the second quarter, gold jewelry sales were down over 20% globally and the industrial demand was down around 8%. The small gold investment sector is relatively flat, with ETFs doubling in the first quarter, but alas, the ETFs may actually hurt gold as they take a big bite out of direct gold investments. So, over-all, demand is down significantly.

On the supply side, I'm sure you're familiar with the collapse of the juniors (exploration companies that explore for new deposits, or they may be a small mining companies with only one or two mines in operation), but this sector is responding to demand.

Another key is with the often over-looked scrap gold market. In the past, this huge market accounted for between 20-25% of supply. YTD, the gold scrap market is up a whopping 30%. This is huge.

What we are seeing is the gold market correcting to reduced jewelery demand and the growing scrap supply.

I'm not sure how far the correction will drop the price but I would not be too anxious to increase your gold holdings. After the correction, I think we will once again enjoy a sustained and growing demand for gold. It may be that investment gold will have to grow exponentially to fill the gold jewelry gap.

END the FED before it ENDS US

Deflationary affects

of foreclosures are certainly well known and understood. In the normal course of things, this would in practice drive inflation into the dirt. The problem is that we are no longer living in "normalcy". Instead of the fed/government allowing the corrections, they are instead manipulating the market with massive bailouts, a state of affairs which only promises to increase.

Money was created for the building of these assets. The assets still exist with value attached as does much of the money created, albeit somewhat lesser in scope. Add to this that the shortfalls are being "guaranteed" by the bail-outs and you have a situation that negates the deflationary affect to a great degree. Now add the ever increasing deficit spending in a falling economy and you have the makings for further monetary inflation/dollar devaluation.

Much of what has occurred over the last year or two has yet to fully impact or "bake" into full economy as the rise in prices has not begun to slow, wages have yet to catch up and inflation has yet to respond...and certainly not due to a few-week dip in oil. It is the forward-looking nature of the metals that I question as certain long-held assumptions associated with the business cycle are being altered by monetary policy.

**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **

"...there is no doubt that it (socialism) could not possibly have affected us so widely and so deeply as it has, had it not been heavily financed". - B. Carroll Reece

More evidence of market manipulation....

I think it's pretty obvious at this point. They are working hard to keep this bird flying at least until the Conventions are over... a crash could catipult their worst nightmare into contention... Ron Paul!

Mike
"Fire Team for Freedom" and "Revolutionary Business"
visit www.mikeandjake.com

Mike
"Fire Team for Freedom"
visit www.mikeandjake.com

Welcome to the upside-down, brave new financial world

Participate at your own great financial risk. Markets are like nature. Attempts at manipulation result in unexpected consequences, virtually all of which are negative.

Discounting the future

Inflation reports reflect the past - what has already happened.

The gold & silver markets are discounting the future - what is going to happen. It appears that right now, these markets are looking forward and seeing deflation.

Please become a fan: www.facebook.com/dailypaul

Deflation

Forclosures are deflationary.

Read more into it when a bank talks of "write downs". It's very telling.

In basic terms, when a bank says it has written down assets...what it really has done is virtually destroyed currency. They're saying this 2 billion dollars that used to exist no longer does.

Monetary inflation/deflation occurs when there's a change in the amount of dollars or the amount of goods they're chasing.

You have fewer dollars in the economy due to these write downs, with the same amount of goods. Fewer dollars=more value in existing dollars.

What the banks have done in 2008 is basically have a huge bonfire and throw about 500 billion dollars into the pile.

Commodities have been overvalued because of fear of inflation (this isn't hindsight, I said this at $1000/oz). The dollar rises due to this deflationary pressure in housing and the premium put on commodities brought on by fear is gone, so they drop in value.

This occured in the mid 1980's when inflation cooled the commodities tanked.

yes deflation in housing..

yes deflation in housing.. but listen to this..
I am in the homebuilding business.. with all the foreclosures on the market, the price of houses are coming down--- DEFLATION.. but for a builder trying to build a new home the prices are going up INFLATION.. the cost of materials, roofing, insulation, anything made of metal are increasing the costs.. we are having price increases every 2 weeks to 1 month.. in about a 10 to 15% range.. the homebuilders can not compete with the forclosure market. this industry will stay in depression for much longer time.. don't believe the bs the media is telling you.. the housing market is not even close to bottoming yet. we are only about a 3rd of the way through the rests on those funny mortgages people were getting.. there are still many more to come wich increases the supply of homes which depresses the price. the poor homebuilder is SOL. because the cost of building a new home is escalating.. not deflating ... so.. yes deflation in some areas inflation in others.. as RON PAUL SAID...an infationary depression.

as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD

"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson

I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain

You missed the point

I'm not arguing that declining home values are the source of the deflation. In a sense, they are (since the dollar buys more house) but that's not the deflationary pressure driving these changes.

It's the defaulting loans, and the resulting writedowns that are deflationary. A writedown is destruction of imaginary currency, a virtual campfire burning dollars that never really existed in the first place.

The deflation is a rebound effect. When the banks started creating this money in 2003, it started inflation. When the money ceases to exist (Is written down) why would it not cause deflation?

The term liquidity crisis is misleading...it should be called "The banks don't have enough money".

But that would lead to mass panic and bank runs...so they sugar coat it. This is also why they call them "write downs" and not the burning of virtual money.

Nicely Put...

jzneff,

We both know SIERRAHPBT doesn't get it. He only sees things in black and white. As Ambrose Evans-Pritchard put it, he has bought too deeply into the "dollar-collapse/M3 monetary bubble" tale, ignoring all the other moving parts in the complex global system.

SIERRAHPBT's broken record mantra of inflationary depression is based upon a warning Dr.Paul has given, not a prediction chiseled in stone. Last week SIERRAHPBT argued that the dollar could not rise against another currency with the Fed introducing new money into the system to bail out the financial sector. Humorous, I know. But this is the same guy that said oil would not correct, gold would stay in the mid $900's and silver would cross $20 before year end. Even his stalwart prediction of inflationary depression is by definition impossible by 2010, unless GDP drops by 10% (an outside chance at best).

Personally I wish the guy the best. Now that I find out he's in the housing business he's going to need it. This may also explain partially why he has such a warped perception of the US and world economies. What it doesn't explain is why he continues to dish out hot air, uninformed advise to others. But at least its entertaining.

How?

How is a foreclusure deflationary?

How does a drop in the dollar value of an asset reduce the money supply?

Foreclosure is deflationary

Acala - The short answer is that banks use assets as collateral to create more credit. Fewer / smaller assets means less credit can be created. This leads to economic slowdown. Here is the long answer:

When you "buy" a house, what happens is this:

The bank creates the loan. They create credit from thin air. The bank uses the credit to transfer ownership of the house. The seller gets the money - say $500,000. He can take that money out and spend it. The seller is done.

The buyer is responsible to pay the bank back. He has a $500,000 debt to the bank. (Much higher when you include the interest - which the bank did not create -- but that is another story.) For the bank, the buyer's loan is an asset on their books. As long as the buyer keeps paying, that is still a good asset for the bank. It represents a constant income stream over 30 years, or whatever the term of the mortgage is.

Assets such as these - millions of them - support the banking system. More assets means more credit can be created against these assets and loaned out. This supports the bank's stock price, and greater salaries for executives, and more clerks, etc. All is good, but it is dependent on those buyers continuing to make their mortgage payments.

If people suddenly can't pay their mortgages, and the bank defaults, their assets are gone. It may be booked as a $500,000 asset, but when they get the house back, the bank may discover it is only worth $100,000 (Or worse - like that story about the house in Detroit yesterday that sold for only $1).

The bank has to readjust its books. If it is just one house - no big deal. That is just part of the cost of doing business. But if this happens en mass, across the entire economy, suddenly banks have to write down huge amounts of assets. This is what is happening now.

Fewer bank assets means less credit can be created and loaned out. That means less economic activity, which feeds into a downward cycle in which more people can't keep up with their mortgage payments. With less assets, bank shares decline (we've seen that, too). Layoffs ensue. More downward spiral.

Prices drop because there is less money in the system, which is simply another way of saying that most people can't afford to pay them. Prices therefore must drop to find equilibrium

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yes very nicely written

even I understood that. Now for another question. I got my mortgage through (lets say) ABC Bank, financed 200,000.00 about a month later they sold my mortgage to XYZ Bank. When they do this, I am assuming that my principal amount of 200,000.00 + interest paid over the 25 yrs lets say = 1 Million dollars. Does XYZ Bank purchase my mortgage for the flat principal of the loan or do they get more and is the asset value that XYZ bank gets from my loan based only on the flat principal or the million dollars of projected revenue?

" Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of they day; but a series of oppresssions...pursued unalterably, through every change of ministers, too plainly proove delibrate, systematical plan of reducing us to slavery..."
Tho

Well Done!

Quite well done Mike. Now what would be nice to know is the effect of the monkey-wrench in the gears, the Fed's willingness to bail out the losses and provide "reserves" to lend against. At what level is balance achieved or can it be when the banking system's impetus and reason for living is to lend more and more money to feed their ever increasing needs? Remember, this coming credit extension/expansion doesn't HAVE to occur in U.S. mortgages (which clearly it is not) since the World Bank/IMF is ready to provide plenty of militarily "secured" investment opportunity in the third world or elsewhere. Or domestically, it may show up in corporate loans for massive infrastructure programs associated with what will be OUR New Deal following the butt-kicking that's on its way.

Sorry, just a little pessimistic...

**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **

"...there is no doubt that it (socialism) could not possibly have affected us so widely and so deeply as it has, had it not been heavily financed". - B. Carroll Reece

Understand

I understand the loss of asset value and that it impacts the bank's reserve BUT in today's market, the Fed is doing everything but shoving credit down the throats of the banks and the banks can make loans based on reserves borrowed from the Fed. That is the meaning of that post TAF graph that shows the dramatic drop in non-borrowed reserves. The banks are borrowing all the required reserves from the Fed.

So the money that was borrowed on the house stays in circulation because it is never paid back and the bank can go on lending in spite of the loss of the value of the asset because it can borrow from the Fed for its reserves.

So I am still not seeing it. The only way defaults and foreclosures would be deflationary is if they reduced a bank's ability to lend by reducing its reserves and I don't think the Fed is letting that happen.

On the other hand, the downturn in business very well might be causing businesses to borrow less and THAT would be deflationary.

‘Borrowed reserves’

‘Borrowed reserves’ (what an oxymoron) work differently than ‘actual’ reserves. Expectations are they will be withdrawn as soon as the immediate crises is over, at which point all credit created will again have to be shouldered by indigenous reserves.

Because of this, banks are much more reluctant to extend credit than against real reserves. Any forward thinking banker will still base credit decisions primarily on actual reserves, not on these ‘here today, gone tomorrow’ emergency funds. So, in the end, borrowed reserves’ effect on credit formation is much weaker than if the reserves were real.

The main purpose of borrowed reserves is so banks don’t have to renege on already agreed upon commitments, and to make sure other participants know this, hopefully preventing Bear like runs, and the very sharp meltdown that would result from this.

Of course, by using this trick slow down movement on the way down, movement will be slowed on the way up as well. Once recovery starts, having all new capital formation immediately offset by having to pay back borrowed reserves, will put a huge dampener on how fast banks can increase their balance sheets. I’m not sure if this is the exact mechanism that kept Japanese banks zombiefied for so long in the 90’s, but the effect will likely be very similar.

The only ways to avoid these downturn prolonging effects would be to either just give the bankers the money they need to prop up their reserves, removing all expectation of ever having to pay them back, or simply let the banks fail hard and take the hit like a man. Thankfully there still seems to be enough sense of basic fairness left, even in our public school indoctrinated sheepleverse, to make the former unpalatable, much as I am sure bankers and their politician friends and clients would wish it wasn’t so.

Which leaves the latter option; let the whole damn rotten house fall, and rely on newcomers to pick up the slack. But I guess Harvard Business School grads’ much touted belief in the benefits of creative destruction, no longer applies when it’s their own particular positions of privilege that is being destroyed.

I don't think so

A couple problems here

A loss of assets only causes a bank to draw in its loan activity if it chooses to do so because it can cover any loans it wants with Fed money. So this argument depends on bankers resisting the tempatation to borrow Fed money on the cheap and profit by lending on it. Since when have bankers resisted the temptation of easy profits? They snapped up the TAF money so fast that their non-borrowed reserves went negative within a matter of days for the first time in history.

What evidence is there that there is ANY reduction in loan activity initiated on the bank side? Interest rates have climbed only slightly. If this scenario was truly happening, interest rates would be climbing dramatically. They may eventually, but it isn't happening yet.

Even IF the writedowns resulted in stifling loan activity it STILL wouldn't have reduced exisitng money supply - it would only reduce the rate of creation of new money going forward. The default itself is inflationary because it keeps the loan principle in circulation rather than bringing it back in to the bank to be zeroed out. So at most you might have a dampening effect on future bank-generated inflation. But maybe not even then because the default kept the entire amount of the loan in circulation while the write down only eliminated a portion of the asset - houses didn't go to zero.

The Fed's job is to protect bank profits. If banks can't make loans they can't make profits. The Fed is not going to allow that to happen. That is why it keeps trotting out new and easier ways for banks to borrow from the Fed to shore up their reserves.

Finally, and most importantly, the government NEEDS inflation to survive. And they are going to have the next-to-last word on the subject and that word is going to be "inflate". It will either have to either inflate like mad or dramatically cut spending, let State and local governments and large corporations go bankrupt, and let banks fail without rescuing bankers and depositers. I would say the probability for the government choosing inflation is about 98%. There will be massive bailouts of everyone in sight, more stimulus checks to the sheep, and massive sales of treasuries to the Fed.

Von Mises will have the LAST word on the subject.

Even though a bank can today

Even though a bank can today cover a loan with fed money, the expectation is that this money will be withdrawn as soon as conditions perk up a bit. The TAF loans are only for a few months in duration, at which time they will need to be rolled over or repaid. Meaning that, as soon as the fed deems the systemic crisis, not necessarily profit troubles for an individual bank, is over, it will no longer allow them to be rolled over.

At that point, normal rules of capital adequacy will again be reinstated, and no banker will want to be too reliant on these emergency funds when that happens.

If I understand you correctly, what you are in effect saying, is that the fed will, in reality, never (or at least not in a very long time) make this call, but instead effectively let the banks keep the reserves almost indefinitely. If that becomes the general perception, we are in total agreement. It is basically a sneaky way of accomplishing the ‘hand the bankers the money, no strings attached’ scenario in my post above, the one I am hoping will cause too much of a public outcry, even today, to be palatable. But you may well be right, and in that case, I agree the whole charade is definitely inflationary.

Compare numbers

I know, it's hard to come by hard numbers for these, but take my best estimates.

The fed printed about 200 billion or so in their spree earlier this year. Chalk that up to inflationary pressure.

Banks this year have written down about 500 billion in debt. That is deflationary.

Net effect, they removed 300 billion dollars from the equasion.

Hmmmm

Remind me...was that 200 Billion in new "reserve" money extended to the banks? If so, is that not translated into $1.8 Trillion over the course of the next few years? If so, the net effect is an increase of $1.3 Trillion...the effect of which we are seeing while wages lag...

**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **

"...there is no doubt that it (socialism) could not possibly have affected us so widely and so deeply as it has, had it not been heavily financed". - B. Carroll Reece

Yes, you are correct sir

But you must also draw the same conclusion for the money lost. They lost 500 billion in money, so following the same rules in fractional reserve, it results in 4.5 trillion lost. (Yes, I am grossly oversimplifying fractional reserve)

You can't compare one number extended by Mandrake to another that's not. Be fair.

That don't compute....

much was already printed against the existing 500 Bill. Also remember,...it was a reserve...and is now being backed against loss and replaced as needed.

**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **

"...there is no doubt that it (socialism) could not possibly have affected us so widely and so deeply as it has, had it not been heavily financed". - B. Carroll Reece

Yes again

Much was printed against the 500 billion...and now that money makes the bank overextended against reserve ratios. This was the panic of the liquidity crisis, that many large banks were coming dangerously close to missing their reserve requirement. The fed would rather print some money than have the regulators get involved.

The new money was to shore up the now unprotected money and get the bank back within their reserve requirement...so it wasn't extended, it was replacing the reserve.

My point was...both the money lost and the money newly printed goes into the same system of fractional reserve...so when you have net money lost in the system, the total amount of money is decreased.

they printed a heck of a lot

they printed a heck of a lot more then 200 billion...

as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD

"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson

I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain

I got ya. So, the housing

I got ya. So, the housing bubble is bursting whether the banks and fed want it to or not. I was wondering about this with the Fannie/Freddie bailout. So, we bail out the lend company, but the people cant pay the mortgages anyway. Wont we just have to bailout those companies yet again?

Call me confused, but

"The bank creates the loan. They create credit from thin air. The bank uses the credit to transfer ownership of the house. The seller gets the money - say $500,000. He can take that money out and spend it. The seller is done."

what happened to the $500,000 the seller got? Where did this money go?
Isn't it still "circulating" somewhere? Or deposited in another bank?

PyraBang for Liberty

PyraBang for Liberty

Normally

This 500k doesn't leave the fractional reserve system.

A good part of it goes to pay off the debts of the seller...the original home loan along with the home equity lines he ran up to buy those jetskis.

The rest of that money he used as a downpayment on a million dollar home.

The guy who sold the million dollar home? He does the same thing and buys a 5 million dollar home.

The money never really exists...it gets transferred from one bank to another to another, and only exists on balance sheets.

Its called Fractional

Its called Fractional Reserve Banking

Yeah

it goes out into the system, where a lot of other people have debt and mortgages, and they send that money into the banks to pay the debt they have, and when a debt ( or a portion of a debt) is retired, this sends currency into thin air, from which it came. And then there is the interest to consider...

P.S. In todays America, most of that $500,000 went to pay off the SELLERS mortgage, not in his pocket.

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" Bugs Bunny
"Scwewy Wabbit!" Elmer Fudd

Man Nystrom

Where were you when I was getting pummelled a few months back trying to argue that deflation was coming.

And where was I when a

And where was I when a select few were making this argument against a tidal wave of inflationary talk? Oh I was right here... a fool and his money are soon parted, as they say...

"The sinews of war are infinite money" ~ Cicero

"The sinews of war are infinite money" ~ Marcus Tullius Cicero

Not exactly what I said

It isn't the drop in value that is the cause of the deflation...it is the loan that was defaulted on.

The banks invent money every day (called fractional reserve). This is money that is never really printed, but it exists only because the bank says it exists. When they create this money, it is inflationary, because it enters the economy just like any other money.

When the loan goes bad, the bank gets a house, and is forced to sell it for less than the original loan amount. They lose money in the process.

When you think in terms of this kind of money lost, you can't think of it like "I lost $100 on the Jets last weekend". In this case, someone else wins, so there's no net loss of money.

When the loss comes in the form of a write-down, the bank is really saying that this money we invented out of thin air no longer exists. Poof, the money is gone.

When the banks created this money in the first place, the result was more money with no more goods...so it's inflation. So when the same money is destroyed (written down) with no change in goods...it's deflation.

To put it into perspective...the federal reserve "printed" about 200 billion dollars in the first 4 months of this year to deal with the liquidity crisis (this is inflationary) but it was to offset 500 billion dollars in writedowns.

We create 200 billion, we destroy 500 billion. The dollar goes up in value.

Foreclosures send fiat currency BACK into thin air

"FED Fighting Off Deflationary Depression (Jan. 22, 2008)"

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/28347

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" Bugs Bunny
"Scwewy Wabbit!" Elmer Fudd

someone has to accountable

someone has to accountable for the loss into thin air?? who is it? the home still exists.. it didn't vanish into thin air.. so the government bought it with printed money!

as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD

"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson

I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain

Please think about what you're saying

You have the same amount of goods (houses) and you have money losses to no one...into thin air.

Same amount of goods, less money chasing those goods.

This is deflation.

They did NOT buy it

they took possession of it.

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" Bugs Bunny
"Scwewy Wabbit!" Elmer Fudd

Metals are forward looking

the CPI is a reflection of the past. Investors, speculators, buy with the expectation of FUTURE inflation. After all, if you buy because you have seen past inflation (such as the CPI reading that is what has already happened) you are not protecting against inflation unless FURTHER inflation is seen.

The metals have been PREDICTING DEFLATION for several months now, just as they began predicting INFLATION in 2002. How accurate were the metals at predicting Inflation?

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" Bugs Bunny
"Scwewy Wabbit!" Elmer Fudd

This report was for July.

Since then we have seen evidence of deflation.

All I can say is that it probably was already priced in.

Having said that, if you made the play on Monday, you would have gotten some rewards. I posted about this on Monday and confirmed it late Monday, early Tuesday.

The time to have made these plays was Monday and Tuesday, making sure you sold as it peeked.

Remember this is a bear market, you must trade to make money. If you invest, you will lose money.

The same goes for oil, however I am somewhat surprised by the pull back in oil today. This is the play today. Oil will go up over the next 5 trading days.

WAHOR!!
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/48994

?

What evidence of deflation?

Deflation

Deflation is a decrease in the money supply. Changes in exchange value of money or commodities can be a symptom of deflation or something else. What is the evidence of deflation? What is the evidence of a decrease in the money supply?