Science VS God

Posted August 14th, 2008 by SIERRAHPBT

Gary Goodell

Wednesday, June 11, 2008
Science vs. God
'Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ.' The atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his new students to stand.

'You're a Christian, aren't you, son?'

'Yes sir,' the student says.

'So you believe in God?'

'Absolutely.'

'Is God good?'

'Sure! God's good.'

'Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?'

'Yes.'

'Are you good or evil?'

'The Bible says I'm evil.'

The professor grins knowingly. 'Aha! The Bible!' He considers for a moment.

'Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would you try?'

'Yes sir, I would.'

'So you're good...!'
'I wouldn't say that.'

'But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't.'

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. 'He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you answer that one?'

The student remains silent.

'No, you can't, can you?' the professor says. He takes a sip of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.

'Let's start again, young fella Is God good?'

'Er...yes,' the student says.

'Is Satan good?'

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. 'No.'

'Then where does Satan come from?'

The student: 'from...God...'

'That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil in this world?'

'Yes, sir.'

'Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?'

'Yes.'

'So who created evil?' The professor continued, 'If God created everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil.'

Without allowing the student to answer, the professor continues: 'is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this world?'

The student: 'Yes.'

'So who created them?'

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his question. 'Who created them? There is still no answer. Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is mesmerized.

'Tell me,' he continues onto another student. 'Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?'

The student's voice is confident: 'Yes, professor, I do.'

The old man stops pacing. 'Science says you have five senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen Jesus?'

'No sir. I've never seen Him'

'Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?'

'No, sir, I have not.'

'Have you ever actually felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or God for that matter?'

'No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't.'

'Yet you still believe in him?'

'Yes.'

'According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?'

'Nothing,' the student replies. 'I only have my faith.'

'Yes, faith,' the professor repeats. 'And that is the problem science has with God. There is no evidence, only faith.'

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of his own. 'Professor, is there such thing as heat?'

'Yes,' the professor replies. 'There's heat.'

'And is there such a thing as cold?'

'Yes, son, there's cold too.'

'No sir, there isn't.'

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain.

'You can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat, unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero, which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the lowest -458 degrees. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat. You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.'

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom, sounding like a hammer.

'What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?'

'Yes,' the professor replies without hesitation. 'What is night if it isn't darkness?'

'You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?'

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This will be a good semester. 'So what point are you making, young man?'

'Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed.'

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. 'Flawed? Can you explain how?'

'You are working on the premise of duality,' the student explains. 'You argue that there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it.'

'Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?'

'If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes, of course I do'

'Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?'

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

'Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a preacher?'

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the commotion has subsided.

'To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student let me give you an example of what I mean.'

The student looks around the room. 'Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the professor's brain?' The class breaks out into laughter.

'Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt the professor's brain, touched or smelled the professor's brain? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, with all due respect, sir. So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your lectures, sir?'

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. 'I guess you'll have to take them on faith.'

'Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with life,' the student continues. 'Now, sir, is there such a thing as evil?'

Now uncertain, the professor responds, 'Of course, there is. We see it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil.'

To this the student replied, 'Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God.

God did not create evil. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light.'

The professor sat down.
Posted by Permission is Given... at 2:52 PM
1 comments:
larrywho said...
Bravo!

Bookmark/Search this post with:

output

weren't we asked

On August 15th, 2008 NickM RON PAUL 08 says:

to stop the discussions on science and religions

I'm pretty sure this is

On August 15th, 2008 wninja says:

I'm pretty sure this is science vs god not science vs religion.

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson

TLF says

On August 15th, 2008 confusious says:

I'm still with you on RON PAUL & LIBERTY.

religions all alike/

On August 15th, 2008 confusious says:

I don't think so . ONLY Christianity boasts a living , ressurected leader' who actually claimed to create the World that he came to salvage
Since HE created it HE can make it into whaterver HE desires. AND
Since HE created you, HE can tell you what HE want out of you. THAT something HE wants, is for you to trust HIM ,like EVE did not. OF course;
to men this is foolishness.
SINCERLY
TLF

Another example of why the church and state need to be separate

On August 15th, 2008 paul4won says:

I don't care if people want to believe in Zeus, Spirit Guides, the tooth fairy or whatever. Why do they care so much what my relationship with the Creator is? The Founding Fathers found the perfect word - it allows us all to define our existence however we are inclined to do so. Just because I don't believe in your particular deity does not mean I am evil. I have former friends in this movement who completely abandoned the quest for liberty to begin to try to convert me back to Christianity. It is all the more insulting because it is not like I don't know what I am missing, I was raised in a Christian, um, church or cult, depending who you ask, right?
If we could say "Under the Creator" in the pledge I would feel better about it, but this notion that always said "under God" that is incorrect. It was added in the fifties.
Pet peeve: Christians will say "Let US pray" then one of them starts talking. OK, I guess they meant let HIM pray, so I try to listen patiently while they say things that I usually do not really agree with. (I am not inclined to ask a deity to do things my way, for a start.) Then they will finish with "In Jesus' name WE pray" and it is offensive. I do NOT pray in the name of any deity, and as noted, I was unable to pray at all. Why is moment of silence so offensive a compromise to those who were told to pray in the closet by their self-accepted saviour?

You don't like the logic?

On August 15th, 2008 Bob-45 says:

Let's try a little different logic, then. Quantum mechanics is generally regarded, even by athiestic scientists, as the closest thing to provable scientific theory about creation (via high energy physics). A simplified way of explaining quantum mechanics is, "Every possibility exists in virtual form until an EXTERNAL OBSERVER chooses which possibilty to accept."

Who's the external observer?

There was no logic to start

On August 15th, 2008 yy says:

There was no logic to start with and this is also not logic.
Quantum mechanics doesn't say anything about creation per se and scientific theories aren't provable either.
Also, the state of a quantum system is not decided upon by choice or acceptance.
The question of who's the external observer is like asking who is the driver of the car.

I would like to know

On August 15th, 2008 Captain Beyond says:

what SIERRAHPBT thinks about Zeitgeist, I hope I don't have to wait an eternity!

My mind is not for rent to any god or government!
Derived from RUSH, Moving Pictures, Tom Sawyer, 1981.

Anyone was actually

On August 15th, 2008 yy says:

Anyone was actually impressed by this story with it's conclusions almost void of logic...?

issues with this post

On August 15th, 2008 freespeech says:

why does everything have to be a competition??
is there one answer to everything?
is it possible that there is no right and wrong but simply what works and doesn't work for each free willed person?
hmmmmmmm.

stop the division and acknowledge the truth- set all of us free!!

~peace

Fuck off with this post.

On August 15th, 2008 greenbean says:

it really doesn't matter what you believe and no-one will ever be swayed by the other side.

this is just divide and conquer tactics and has nothing to do with liberty / limited government goal we are reaching for.

let this post die

here it goes again...every

On August 15th, 2008 Logic says:

here it goes again...every single day we are subjected to religious bs...this country is run by it..im glad im logical enough to laugh off all of these religious bombardments..though i do get irritated at times....

Good

On August 15th, 2008 speculor says:

one a logical basis, one could also argue with the professor that since Christians believe God created everything, including science, you cannot place science opposite God. Science and belief in God are not opposites.
Scientists also must make assumptions that cannot be proven. If you are a radical evolutionist and think all started with the big bang, well where did the big-bang originate? Logical thought can help us to explain a lot, but ultimate belief in God is based in faith, not proof. I believe you cannot proof (scientifically) that God exists, but also cannot proof that he does not exist, it is a matter of acknowledgement, of faith.

Love is another thing that cannot be scientifically proven, but that does not mean it does not exist and have influences.

I like your reasoning.

On August 15th, 2008 Libera_me says:

Libera me, let the truth break, what my fears make--Leslie Phillips

How about this....

On August 15th, 2008 trgtc says:

The original post is carefuly worded to "prove" a point, but if you examine it closely you find that it seems to fail.....

"Heat" is a measure of thermal energy. "Hot" is a relative term defined by a person's experience, just as "Cold" is. For me, 100 degrees F of "heat" feels "hot", but to a person who lives in the desert it is normal.

"Light" generally refers to the measure electromagnetic radiation in the visible spectrum. "Dark" (and "light" when referenced with "dark") is a relative term subject to experiential definitions. Right now it's "dark" outside. It is "lighter" than absolute "darkness", BUT it is "darker" than it was 12 hours ago.

"Good" and "Evil" are likewise relative terms open to very broad definitions which can vary greatly from person to person. Robin Hood is generally considered to be "good", and those he stole from were considered evil (or at least not-so-good). In reality, he was a thief who committed armed robbery. His followers praised him for what he gave them, but to those he stole from he was nothing more than a parasite.

The professor's brain cannot be seen, heard, tasted, smelled, or touched without opening his skull, BUT science has shown that a human cannot function as a professor in a classroom without a brain, and the existance of that brain can be proven by simply opening the professor's skull.

Come on, people. If you are going to debate something like this, how about being more intelligent about it?

Do I believe in "god"? I don't know. Some days I do, some days I think it's just a fairy tale concocted to "keep us in line".

Guard, protect and cherish your land, for there is no afterlife for a place that started out as Heaven - Charles M. Russell

Post of the night!

On August 15th, 2008 IamVoting4RonPaul says:

___________

Lisa C.

www.dvds4delegates.com=Ron Paul, the 44th U.S. President

Join us at: www.campaignforliberty.com

Brought to you by: www.women4ronpaul.com

I find this post offensive

On August 15th, 2008 supporter says:

No professor that earned his PhD in a subject related to religion or spirituality would make such silly logical arguments. I'm agnostic, and I didn't buy his argument either. For example, the existence of God and religion are two separate subjects. Addressing them at the same time is foolish. Addressing the credibility of a particular religion is historical. Addressing the credibility of god is a logical argument.

I'm fine with anyone that wants to believe in god or be a part of organized religion, but I take issue with someone making up stories about "arrogant" athiests who "talk smart" but don't actually know anything. The first 15 minutes of the Omega Code is a prime example. They make the guy a complete jerk off.

Even religious people will admit that some of their flock are misinformed and misguided. The same is true of athiests.

If you want to read an fairly well informed argument on the perspective of athiests, then try "The Case Against God". If you aren't interested, then I suggest that you live a life in line with your principles and let the athiests do the same

Now

On August 15th, 2008 speculor says:

I do not think the point was to say the professor did not know anything, it is more about that he cannot know everything and cannot "proof" everything of the things he "works scientifically with, the things he believes in. Science and religion should be differentiated, but they do NOT exist in opposition. Science - also if you do not believe in God - uses some axioms and assumptions that are "believed in", e.g. things that cannot be proven scientifically. Science ultimately do make assumptions and projections and work with models that are accepted, until proven wrong.

Technically we cannot prove anything

On August 15th, 2008 supporter says:

That is why I'm agnostic, but I'd lean atheist if I had to go on what I've seen of the logical arguments.

I don't disagree with you

On August 15th, 2008 supporter says:

Assumptions are the key building blocks of any discipline. I might suggest that the assumptions in science are widely acknowledged and embraced more than I have seen in religion.

I believe it was Thomas Aquinas who took the argument that he makes God a fundamental assumption. There is nothing wrong with that assumption assuming that it is supports other findings. It's been my experience that it starts to get hairy when a religion is attached to that assumption, because I have never seen a good agrument that can both explain the existence of god and justify a particular religion to that existence.

For the most part, I was just saying that the post did not include anything scientific from the professors perspective, just a few poorly planned, linguistic games.

Here's the problem w/ science/religion

On August 15th, 2008 karmavsdogma says:

1. Science should not seek the answers to "why"
2. Religion should not seek the answers to "how"
3. If they do so, they can coexist

"Every generation needs a new revolution" ~Jefferson

Join ours - http://www.ronpaul2008.co...

The sixth sense.

On August 14th, 2008 allten says:

Thought I would share a personal experience I had yesterday to help increase the "faith" of those that choose to have and excersize it.

My life was going the same as it always goes with lots of focus on Work, teaching others about freedom, and preparing for the tough times a head. It was during these regular times when an unexpected impression came to my mind and heart to literally start praying for a sister-of-law of mine. I have not seen, heard, or even communicated with this sister-in-law for months. I then sent a simple text message that stated "we love you" (for my wife and I). Two days later my wife called her sister to see how she was doing. Her sister explained that she purchased alchohal and the necessary medication to end her life. We didn't even know she was suicidal. However, she received an email from a friend that talked about a man that commited suicide because no one ever said they cared much for them. It was after reading this very coincidential email that my test message arrived to her phone. I hope she gets the help she needs.

Many of the founders testified that if they had not received the help of the all powerful-invisible hand of God during key times as they were trying to establish this nation that they probably would have failed. What allowed them to sense such greatness helping their rightous cause along? Was it a sixth spiritual sense?

Universe due to die out in 100,000,000,000,000 years

On August 14th, 2008 zrih1 says:

This story was really good until he got to the evolution part. Why is it so hard for some people to accept that we might have evolved from monkeys or bacteria? What is the big deal? I agree with infospill I think the problem is that some people have a hard time imagining the changes that can occur over millions of years. Do you really think that humans will be around in 100,000,000 years. Oh and get this, the Universe and all matter will cease to have motion (i.e. heat) in some 100 trillion years. Thats 100 followed by 12 zeros. That's when all the stars, galaxies and gas in the Universe will have a temperature of absolute zero (-458 F or 0 Kelvin)

Monkeys and slime....

On August 15th, 2008 wninja says:

Not born out in the record anywhere. Man has over 4000 defects that could not have "evolved", they had to have been there from the beginning.

There is no missing link and one will never be found. All of the "presumed links" have used faulty science and/or been straight up frauds.

Let me turn that question around for you... How is it that you accept that you descended from monkeys so easily?

"I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot sleep forever." - Thomas Jefferson

Thanx at least some do

On August 15th, 2008 Infospill.com says:

Thanx at least some do

I have to laugh when scientists talk about things....

On August 14th, 2008 SirFelix says:

that have happened in the distant past or things that will happen in the distant future. I don't believe in the Big Bang theory and scientists don't really know what will happen in the future. Red Shift theory, is shaky at best. Evolution could have happened, or cosmic seeds could have landed on Earth. Creation of the Earth, and the Universe could have happened exactly as detailed in the Bible. No one really knows. I do believe in science, and have been an avid reader/experimenter all my life, and I can tell you that a lot of scientists believe that there is a God. Why? Because there is so much that we don't know.

Exactly

On August 15th, 2008 supporter says:

We can't even forecast next week's economic numbers with any real acurracy. At the end fo the day, it's all based on data. data is flawed. It helps make decent approximations, but those analyzing the data often take creative license. Case in point, "global warming". They may be on to something, but there is no way anyone can say with the 100% certainity they claim.

I believe in God

On August 14th, 2008 zrih1 says:

I seem to think that I believe in the same God this guy talks about, just not the evolution part. I believe the Bible-New and Old, the Quran, and The Book of Mormon are all the word of God. I also see God in Nature and some New Age stuff. What is the big deal?

Thank you SIERRAHPBT..............

On August 14th, 2008 Iron-man01 says:

For posting this ,great story..

"Observe the masses,and do the opposite."

welcome my friend! as for

On August 15th, 2008 SIERRAHPBT says:

welcome my friend!

as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD

I just figured something out.

On August 14th, 2008 Jive_Dadson says:

I really don't belong here. All I do is try to police the place, trying without any success to keep it on topic. The religious talk torques my jaw, because if I respond, I am only contributing to the divisiveness and diverting us from our common goal. Daily Paul has been taken over by incorrigibles. You folks have fun. I give up.

You know what,

On August 14th, 2008 SirFelix says:

Don't give up, don't try to police, just support Ron Paul's message.

Supporting Ron Paul 24/7 takes a toll on people, and sometimes people just have to talk about something else, something else they believe in, something else they like to do, or they will go crazy.

It is stress relief, it is community building, it is positive.

All of the people that drive you nuts sometimes, will be the very same people who come to your aid in the event of an emergency.

So take heart in the knowledge that the people of the DailyPaul are the true patriots of this Revolution.

Peace

come visit

On August 14th, 2008 Prof de la Paz says:

forums.libertylove.org

good&evil

On August 14th, 2008 confusious says:

GOD did say in his word that he created good & evil, SO. GOD also said he creates vessels of honor & vessels of dishonor, SO. IF you know
what he meant by that. And yes there is sickness, disease, cancer, pain,& all kinds of problems for mankind. GOD did not put mankind into this type of environment. Man put himself into this environment AFTER GOD told him what price disobeydience would cause. GOD had to design a way to get man out of his own mess. This , GOD fore- knew would happen to man. SO, GOD took care ofthe problem before the foundation of the World. HE set up the plan of salvation for a man to be able to return to a PRE-SIN nature. Some men accept & others refuse.
If you are smart enough to argue with that , how about putting some planets into orbit, or create somethig out of nothing. HOW about healing yourself if you don't need any help. Tell your body to heal itself.
IF you think your smart, try reading the book of JOB in the BIBLE, & lets see how you stack up. LET me know ,OK ?
I said it once before : because faith in CHRIST exists; that is proof that GOD exists. The changed HEART of a man. Man would not create such a story to place himself into bondage. There is NO other proof , just evidence of things not seen. Happening every day unless you are oblivious to your surroundings. GOD has chosen the weak things of this world to be HIs testimony & confounded the wise. Obviously some of you sure like to waste your time discussing something you believe is nothing.
SO; let's get to the CAMPAIGN for LIBERTY & let's change this COUNTRY for the BETTER.
YOUR FRIEND
TLF

As much as we think we know,

On August 14th, 2008 SirFelix says:

we probably only know about 1/10 of a billionth of a quadrillionth of a
per cent of all there is to know, but I am only approximating.

God, evolution, mythology...

On August 14th, 2008 wpsmithjr says:

All really nice theories.

Face it. We don't know d*ck about ourselves, our world or our universe.

Since we don't, we have to pick something and have FAITH in that. Faith in religion... faith in evolution... or if you're like me, faith in the fact that you don't know where we came from.

No one has proven evolution. In fact, with all the fossil records out there, the fact that we haven't found definative proof of evolution tells me it probably isn't how we came to be. Plenty of different species have come and gone. None have been proven to have evolved into homo sapien.

So, to me evolution is about as believable as God.

So, I'll just sit back and let all you people figure it out. Let me know when you find out the answer.

Bravo. SirFelix

On August 14th, 2008 iehuvihs says:

Well said,

The kingdom of God is within You!

On August 14th, 2008 iehuvihs says:

God the Father is the source. No need for men to act as meditors. grant

You got it..

On August 14th, 2008 oruval says:

Now take away the gender of the "Father" and your vision will be complete.

And no it's not a woman either.

exactly! as for me and my

On August 14th, 2008 SIERRAHPBT says:

exactly!

as for me and my home, we shall worship the LORD

Yes, as I have said on an ealier post.

On August 14th, 2008 SirFelix says:

The Kingdom of God, the kingdom of truth, justice, love, and peace is "within" US. Only we can make it happen. Only we can take the inspiration that Ron Paul has given us and turn it into a reality. If we fail, then Bush's Kingdom of Satan will destroy us.

This may sound melo-dramatic, but its true.

Never stop fighting for the truth!

We all have beliefs and faiths...

On August 14th, 2008 SirFelix says:

And our beliefs and faiths are not better than another person's beliefs and faiths, but may only be different.

Tolerance of all, is the key to harmony.

Every Knee

On August 14th, 2008 artistsforRP says:

shall bow and every tongue confess
that Jesus Christ is Lord!

Until the next messiah

On August 14th, 2008 oruval says:

comes along to be the light of the world and after his death his teachings are jumbled into a book to and used to control the minds of man by a few men.

Funny how every religion predating Christianity is considered a myth. I'm curious when Christianity will become myth.