Do you think this kind of control is right? Do you know why Guy Holland is destroying Meetup Groups???

Well, doubtless this would be great strategy to destroy Ron Paul's efforts.

Come on, this is just a meetup group. A fancified e-mail list.

I've been a member since it first started. The originator, Dale, was energized early on but life soon took over and he moved on. Erick did a great job of organizing a lot of the sign wavings and fun stuff that made joining the R3VOLUTION exciting.

I'm not one for organizations, I was once the president of my county LP but it's such a joke of a title, like being the organizer of a riot.

I think the thing that made the RP campaign so successful was having a lot of individuals not controlled with the same goal...getting Ron Paul elected.

There were plenty of ideas and roads to follow that fit everyone's fancy. I went the route of becoming precinct chair and state delegate. That's where I felt I could be most effective. For others it was putting up signs or handing out pamphlets.

I do find it a bit nepharious for some guy from Michigan to take over a meetup group in San Antonio. Especially since it seems to have turned from a group that would send out notifications about local events going on to a mass e-mail about stupid stuff that is the same as every other Ron Paul e-mail list I'm signed up on.

Either way, the goals are changing. Getting Ron Paul elected is now quite a long shot so trying to keep people around when the original goal is no longer there is a difficult task.

This email was sent back in July 2007 and sums up the problems we have been having the whole time.

Here is link to our email archives:
http://ronpaul.meetup.com...

Erick, I wish this were tongue in cheek but alas, I lament; you are asking for sensible order and recognizable organization which I fail to find in any substantial part within this group. I feel your frustration and have more of my own. I sometimes wonder if this is by design for there are some who claim great experience in political organization. I have none so I can not judge but I know a cluster-chuk when I see one. I would like to actively participate within this group but it?s just too unorganized and confusing for me to really be involved.

Richard

Let me guess you like your air conditioning and radio =P.

Also all the emails are archived here. It shows Guy's noble responses to an offensive group. Also there is an explanation from Dirk stating how everything was deleted by meetup.com.

For all you people who are reading this please go look, the whole thing is archived. Just follow the link above.

is from the national grass roots meetup group

I am posting this here because as soon as it is seen here or at the SA Meetup board - I will be removed and deleted because I am "making subversive and slanderous" comments.

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Ok - so obviously Erick (Emalsbury) and Mags (SATX) are never - ever - going to see what every SINGLE other person around them has seen.

25 people have joined the new group.

2 People are (for some odd reason) blindly defending Guy.

Guy is being destructive. He has caused all of this - and where is he?

Nowhere. He has yet to comment here or at the Meetup Group. Further proving his ineptness at running the group - or proving this was all his intention.

Erick: If you were truly such a shining star for the Ron Paul campaign, you wouldn't be throwing your "title" around like you are. You said to me: "if you were around at all, then I would know you."

These is a sickenly pompous statment.

I wonder if you were so involved - how is it that I don't know you? If you want to throw names and titles around - where were you when people were FIGHTING to get things right with FairConvention.org. I didn't see you at any of the meetings?

Where were you when 1000+ people came to Victoria for the Ron Paul rally in February? I met the SA group there. (My meetup group organized that rally).

I didn't see you anywhere. So yeah - I have been "around."

Also - if you knew anything you would know that the "title" throwing and such that you are doing is BEYOND opposite of what Dr. Paul and this movement stands for.

He constantly says: It isn't about who does it - just as long as it gets done. (Everyone has either heard that - or actually heard him say it)

I don't need a title to know who I am and what I have done. I don't have to throw things in people's faces.

WE are all in this together. WE should be unified. Instead - Guy has caused this mess and he is no doubt sitting back watching this all unfold - laughing.

You and Mags have more excuses than any die-hard Party Republican I have ever met. Anything that is thrown at you - you have an excuse for.

As for the meetup: Guy took it over within a couple of HOURS. He didn't "step up to the plate." He SWOOPED in like a vulture.

I saw the email come through. I asked Bonita if she wanted to use an extra meetup space (under my name) to help with this group. I went to the gym. I came back. ALL of this had happened.

SO - yes - Guy SWOOPED in. It was all too fast and coincidental to me - but eh.

The point is that this group will obviously never be turned over to Bonita or Robert. They care about where this group is going and not who they are or what title they have.

I am inviting anyone and everyone who is TIRED of this hostile (yes) takeover, to please let this group go and join the new one:

http://ronpaul.meetup.com...

There are no slanderous or liable statements. It merely says: This group is run locally.

I really hope, Erick and Mags, that you find a way to see how damaging this all is between your blind faith in Guy (which still baffles me).

Guy has been asked questions he won't answer.

He is sending meaningless and repetitive emails.

He has not done ONE GOOD THING since he joined.

He has said there is a "movement" to join all meetups - yet he refuses to answer any questions about who this movement is or who is behind it. (Yes he said this.)

In closing - since you guys are really hard to get through to - I am moving on to the other group and giving up on trying to convert you to the truth.

I invite anyone else who feels the same to join me (which has been everyone except for Erick, Mags and Guy).

http://ronpaul.meetup.com...

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"I killed the banks"

how someone who is not an organizer or assistant organizer of a meetup group can do diddly squat to it?

Even if he is an org/asst of any such group, you'd never know WHO did it, because the site doesn't tell you that.

What are you talking about.

Sounds made up to me. Perhaps this poster has a vendetta against this "guy."

The meetups had there moment and may have one again anytime but many are just sitting dormant or run by johnny/jane come-lately. Having a meetup is nothing having a group of dedicated cooperative activist working together is something else.

I know our meetup, #90 and over 500 members near the end is just a hollow shell and basically sitting dormant. It was taken over for the cost of the re-newel fee by a hard core Hillary supporter who will work on anyones campaign if he/she can get some kind of personal gain. The interesting part is there are no members for he/she to lord over since ALL of the original members who were the heart and soul of the group no longer participate with the meetup yet still meet and are involved outside the meetup frame work.

I believe many others have done the same. Ha Ha RP people are a step ahead of the crowd not following in someones foot steps.

Join PyraBang the patriot search engine.

You have no information he has destroyed any other meetup groups. I have been a longtime member of this group, and he offered me to take over the position as organizer. I am very hesitant to do so considering all people in this group care about is their titles, their so called power within the group, and don't give a damn about getting anything accomplished.

All you want to do is bitch and moan, about EVERYTHING.

I hope Guy sues you for your libelous comments.

The problem with 'meetup' groups is that one or a few people control what can be sent out. one example i saw of this is when Ron Paul was invited onto the tonight show with jay leno in january 2008, which was paul's second appearance on the show. some of the ron paul meetups in l.a. and pasadena refused to announce this last minute appearance or were boycotting it becauise at that time, unlike the octiober 2007 appearance, the writers were on strike and the people in charge of a particular meetup did not want to attend because they were supporting the union.

This was absurd of course because I went and most all the writers liked ron paul and did not have a problem with our presence. However, there were very few people at the studio as compared with the october appearance, which had hundreds of Ron Paul people outside. all because one guy didnt put out the word because of a personal bias towards unions. sick.
It showed the potential destructiveness of centralized control in any system.

"All men in power should be distrusted.." -James Madison

Sounds like it. I think someone is being paid to disrupt.. Imagine that.

Spread the word and donate - http://www.dvds4delegates...

You should have a email list of meetup members you have met in person, especially since this movement is also about making new friends in liberty.

Calling real meetings, and meeting people face to face, is a sure fire way to combat any subterfuge.

If you don't like what is going on in your meetup, call a meeting.

Get as many people in the same room, and see who knows (and can vouch for ) your new organizer.

If no one can, decide to create a new meetup, and invite the members of the old meetup, (and keep control of organizer rights).

The meetup itself is not as important as maintaining open communication channels with your local friends.

When a meet up organizer decides to quit, the organizer can recommend to meet up any member to take over the web site controls by paying the meet up fee of $72 for 6 months. Meet up will then send notice to that person to pay the bill. If the organizer does not recommend someone and does not pay the meet up fee, then meet up leaves the site open for at least 10 days. During that time anyone who is a member of the group, or who joins the group, can contact meet up and pay the fee and thereby become The Organizer. The Organizer has powers to delete members, turn off emails, rename the group, do all kinds of things that members can not do, because the Organizer has the web site controls. The only way that you, as a meet up member, can prevent an undesirable take over of your meet up group is to stay actively involved in your group. Know your members personally. Visit your meet up site daily. Get to know your Organizer and be aware if that person is ready for a break. Make sure that the group has a follow up person who is ready and willing to take over the controls as organizer. It just might have to be you (happened to me). By all means, remain LOCAL. Have a monthly face to face meeting with your members. Form a fellowship of friends to help each other through the coming chaos, and elect a few conservatives to government!
It's just a little bit like the way politics works, if YOU are not actively involved in your group, you just might wake up someday to find the wrong people have taken over the controls.

"Evil flourishes when good men do nothing."
—Edmund Burke

Hi, everyone! I've been reading posts here for a long time (thank you to those who have increased my knowledge!) I've posted several times on C4L & the daily dose, but this is the first time I felt compelled to post here. I can speak freely since I left the hijacked group & joined the new one. I was a member of the SA Meetup since the Texas primaries. The leaders are very dedicated & meetups are still occurring despite Guy Holland's claims. As for the person who praised Guy for hijacking the meetup...I have never met her & she wasn't at any of the RPT convention planning meetings nor did she attend with the other Ron Paulians at the Houston convention. I was one of the members who recommended that the group be private when we were planning our strategy for the Texas state convention. No need to give information freely to the opposition. Guy Holland joined our group in June 08 & now in July he snatches a very active meetup just prior to the Rally? His intentions are questionable since it was merely hours between my notification that the meetup needed a new leader & his taking of the group. Add insult to injury, he began spamming all of us with issues that we are all aware of & actively pursuing.

I wouldn't have realized he's not true without this notice!!!

PyraBang for Liberty

Texas is a big place. When the MUGs were getting started here, someone from an adjacent county/area would start the new MUG, build it up, then turn it over to someone local.....Asking only that they repeat the process with the next adjacent county/area. It worked well.

What I don't understand is how someone from the other side of the country thinks he/she can effectively run, organize, and grow a MUG from so far away. No chance of attending meetings and events, no chance of getting to know members (and what motivates them), nothing personal at all.

Looks like a MUG who's usefulness has probably come to an end. You might try starting a new C4L MUG there.....Just try contacting the members individually rather than sending a broadcast announcement (which the organizer can block). Also let the other area MUG organizers know so they can direct anyone that has cross-joined back to you.

Good luck to you.

I don't know any of these people from Adam.

However, I do know that anybody who comes in from "parts unknown" and starts telling people that he's going to run the show now, is a total "no-no" and disallowed.

If he wants to run things, he can start at the bottom rung, and work his way to the top by proving his worth to the group, and being elected after, say, a year or two of proving himself.

That's the way things are done, and if he thinks he can just step in and run groups from afar, and do it to various(many) other groups simultaneously, as some sort of "collective cult leader", then he needs to have his ass run out on a rail.

On top of that, no history of any kind(that I could see) accompanies this individual, and how do we even know who the heck he is, or what his angle is? One thing is for sure, the timing of this just prior to the convention is VERY suspect.

People in that meetup group need to grow a pair and tell him what's what, and if he wants to run things, he can prove himself over time and work his way into it. Other than that, he can pound sand.

I dunno, but "groups" have usually not been for me anyway. I was pretty miffed that the C4L "leadership" meeting on 9/1 was only for people "nominated" by the state coordinator. My state coordinator did diddly squat. I wrote him 4 times and he never responded. I wrote C4l about this meeting and left a message for Deb. No response. Today, I started to think that if C4L was going to be some snippy thing with "tiers" of members, then it is not an organization I would even WANT any responsibility to work with. (It could be sour grapes, but I do not truly think so). I have been a member of a large national group of people who were trying to do something very similar to this, only in a different realm. Whenever I got a "bad" feeling, it was because people were getting caught up in organizing. If I ignored them, everything was fine. I am a strong person and nobody tells me what to do. So I will see what happens. When the fun goes out of something it is time to move on. One way or another.

OK, first off, I know nothing at all about this except what appears above and on that thread (which I just got done reading). That said, I do know something about the email: it was a real email from Nathan, the organizer of the 141 group. I know because I got a copy.

Or did I miss something truly intriguing?

What I suspect was meant by

(Beware: The email he cites in the thread has already been proven false and ficticious. The CFL said no such thing - ever. It was written and completely made up to give this "movement" some kind of validity.)

is that the conversation described in that email didn't happen. If that's the case, is Nathan now lying??

What's going on here?

I do note that at the end of the message thread, it appears that some of the others in the group don't agree with the OP here, and appreciate what Guy is doing. However, again, I know nothing about all this except what appears here. I do know, though, that when accusations start flying, it's dangerous to believe anyone without looking into the matter.

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Join the Team! campaignforliberty.com

From the beginning we have taken care with our group about who joins and especially who is given assistant organizer privileges.

Be wise:

1. Require an application and approval of every new member. Read their introduction carefully. Look for clear statements of agreement with the Freedom philosophy of Ron Paul. Ask questions if you have doubts.

2. Except for the occasional person who is a key member of the C4L leadership, don't accept members who are not local enough to actually attend your events. Look out for members who keep their meetup membership list private or who belong to more than 1 other group.

It always seemed to me that many of us have been too trusting and too casual about vetting members.

We are currently in the process of paring down our membership list, removing any who haven't attended or who live far away, with a couple of exceptions. I suggest you do the same. There are undoubtedly many meetup members on the lists who are there as spies or worse.

Some entreprenureal types have been joining groups all over the place and promoting their projects. They may be well-intentioned or not, but they don't need direct access to your group members. I tell such applicants to send me any information they want to share, and I'll pass it on if I think it is appropriate. So far, nobody has taken me up on that offer.

Having a nominally large number of members is not important if they aren't local and engaged. Anybody who isn't serious about locally reforming the Republican Party as Ron Paul has encouraged us to do, is only going to be an impediment or a distraction to our purpose and program.

We're no longer merely supporting the candidacy of Ron Paul, we're now involved in a long-term struggle for liberty and reform within the Republican Party. If you saw the DVD4Delegates video tonight, you know the drill - back to the square we were in in 1964 when Ronald Reagan seconded the nomination of Barry Goldwater, and forge a new path to the top of the Nolan Chart from there.

He's listed in a couple of the Washington state meetups too... I read some of the thread you linked to and he doesn't seem to care who he pisses off. I'd inform others in your meetup, start another one with them, and leave him with the people who are too dumb to figure it out. Maybe keep this thread bumped for a while tomorrow so others have a chance to see this.

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"I killed the banks"