Fires, Not Explosives----The Final Word on 7 WTC
Posted August 21st, 2008 by FreeJesseVentura
output
Any discussion beyond this report might guarantee your being sent to the looney bin. Thanks for playing, and let this really be the final word.
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August 22, 2008
Report Says Fire, Not Explosion, Felled 7 W.T.C.
By ERIC LIPTON
GAITHERSBURG, Md. — Fires in the 47-story office tower at the edge of the World Trade Center site undermined floor beams and critical structural columns, federal investigators concluded Thursday, as they attempted to curb still-rampant speculation that explosives or fuel fires were responsible for the building’s collapse of Sept. 11, 2001.
The long-delayed report by engineers here at the National Institute of Standards and Technology in suburban Washington is intended to solve one of still lingering central questions about the 2001 attacks: Why did 7 World Trade Center fall, if it was not hit by an airplane.
“Heating of floor beams and girders caused a critical support column to fail,” said Shyam Sunder, the lead investigator. “Video and photographic evidence combined with detailed computer simulations show that neither explosives nor fuel oils played a role in the collapse that brought the building down.”
No one died when 7 World Trade Center fell, nearly seven hours after the twin towers came down. But the collapse of the adjacent tower — once home to branch offices of the Central Intelligence Agency, the Secret Service and to the Giuliani administration’s emergency operations center — is cited in hundreds of books and Internet sites as perhaps the most compelling evidence that an insider secretly planted explosives, intentionally destroying the tower.
It is the first skyscraper in modern times to collapse primarily as a result of a fire.
Mainstream engineers and government officials have rejected the speculation as ridiculous. But national polls have shown that perhaps as many as 1 in 7 Americans believe that the destruction of the World Trade Center towers was an inside job.
The investigators determined that debris from the falling twin towers ignited fires on at least 10 floors at 7 World Trade Center, which was about 400 feet north of where the city’s two tallest buildings once stood. The blazes burned out of control for six hours, as the city fire department, devastated by the collapse of the twin towers, abandoned its efforts to extinguish the fire, and the sprinkler system was incapacitated.
The heat from these fires, the investigators said, caused the beams on the lower floors of the east side of the tower to expand, ultimately causing a girder on the 13th floor to disconnect from a critical interior column that supported the building’s long floor spans. Once the 13th floor gave way, a cascade of floor failures started down to the fifth floor, leading to the overall collapse of the tower.
Skeptics have questioned if explosives were planted at 7 World Trade Center, as well as the twin towers and the Pentagon, as the Bush administration was seeking a justification to invade Iraq and Afghanistan. What started as a small number of such conspiracy theorists has only ballooned into a movement of sorts, largely fed by Internet sites that promote the theories.
“Seven World Trade Center is one of the key points of evidence, one of the smoking guns,” said Richard Gage, a California architect who leader a group called Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. “There have been much hotter, longer lasting and larger fires in skyscrapers that have not fallen down.”
The investigators said that if the city water main had not been broken during the collapse of the twin towers, the sprinkler system would likely have put out the fires at 7 World Trade Center, and the building would not have fallen.
The engineers also examined whether diesel fuel tanks in the building — to power the Giuliani administration’s emergency operations center and other government offices — might have been a fuel source that caused the collapse. The investigators determined, based in part on computer models and videos of smoke coming from the tower, that the heat generated from any fuel-fed fires would not have been enough to cause the collapse.
Dr. Sunder said the investigation pointed to how expansion that can occur in steel as it heats up in a fire needs to be considered to prevent skyscraper collapses.
“Our take-home message today is the reason for the collapse of World Trade Center 7 is no longer a mystery,” Dr. Sunder said. “It did not collapse from explosives or fuel oil fires.”
A new, substantially different, 52-story 7 World Trade Center opened in 2006.
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I saw the official interview
the interview was on c-span this week, 8-19-08 I think was the day, any way, I'm sure you could go to there archives and find the video. infowars had a guy ask a question, you should have seen them stamering and stuttering, rushing him through, you know there drill.
Funny,......
I saw that crap on TV.
CNN.
It was unbelievable because they said it was from fires and showed a lame diagram that made no sense from a physical stand point.
Then the guy said it was the first time he has ever seen something like that.
And then he kind of made it seem like it will be the first, and the last time, you will here about the theory being applied to any building being collapsed.
And then to call any other theory a conspiracy because there word is official, and the truth, even though they have no idea or expertise in the matter.
They just want an official story to tell our kids when they go to school and learn all this crap and they become naive and are told not to question authority or what is perceived to be authority.
Heres a DIGG for the
Heres a DIGG for the truthers http://digg.com/business_...
There's a word for this
There's a word for this report.
It's called horseshit.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
:)
:):):)
Funny
How none of the shills ever try to stick around and disprove solid facts.
Soon as they can just explain how the laws of physics did not apply that day and that day alone I will listen. Till then lies like this will not convince even one of the people who have actually bothered to read something like the law of conservation of momentum. Or even something as simple as the melting point of steel.
Heres my sugestion, start joining us in the right immediatly or pay the price for being an accomplice when we start hanging these murders.
right fucking on man
that right.
Cast your vote.
http://news.aol.com/artic...
Almost half think the NIST report is a joke so far
And almost 60 percent say that the federal government is involved.
I like it :)
For those of you who wonder why I am so adamant about this fire
melting the steel issue , I do this in my job , watch this video and watch how long it takes this guy to cut through a 1/2 inch piece of steel plate. Notice the intensity that that the heat has to be concentrated oxyaceltylene torch. Then if you still believe the office fires scenario I have a few bridges I'd like to sell you .
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
then this guy with thicker steel
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
This guy is cutting a 1/2 inch steel plate that is about as wide as the girders in the towers. Note the length of time.
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
Linear shape charges
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
thermite in a quiet burn
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
thermite used to melt steel together ( shhhh very quiet !! )
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
what happens when plane crashes into concrete remember steel is much stronger than concrete.
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
any questions ? Now lets ask NIST a question or two huh ?
sentinel: bump you
There's still a few pockets of automatic thinkerheads that feel more comfortable with official things. We're mopping up the last few puddles now.
Hey. Look at how far this sight has come. You would have gotten flamed to kingdom come a year ago for being a conspiracy theorist.
And you work with the reality of heat and steel everyday.
"Committed To The Eradication Of Poverty Among Patriots"
Once you know what it means to get your hands dirty
You learn a clear understanding of the principles of reality. It takes me 5 minutes to cut an I beam with a torch and the buildings fell in a period of time that it would have taken me to just light that torch and adjust the point to maximum air gas ratio. It's not brain surgery.
the point of my flame has to be razor hot to cut steel , If an office desk is on fire I could stand in front of it and roast a marshmellow.
My point is this
Some guy who is getting paid by a governement a ton on money to explain a computer simulation to the American public about structural steel has absolutely no idea what it means to work with steel, To work with a building that was designed to withstand a lateral force for years carrying 1000's of tons of weight on it's columns built to code to withstand that weight. The NIST report is a rediculous farce.
Ask yourself a question or two .
question #1: Does your barbeque melt when you close the cover to sear that steak ? didn't think so ! that is hotter than desk fires.
Number 2 : If you drop a concrete floor on a steel beam that is vertical would the steel beam get damaged ? it is vertical and has been designed to carry the weight of thousands of tons. that concerete floor ( concrete is actually very brittle ) If it is suspended I can break it with a sledge hammer very easily. You could too.
what happened to the 3 foot by five foot vertical steel columns that you saw taking forever to cut using a fire as hot and concentrated as oxycetylene ?
One answer = thermate..........period.
Does that mean...
...insurance companies for large buildings will increase 20x the initial premiums? No? Well how generous of them...
This report gives nothing.
LMAO
What kind of f*cking complete moron do you have to be to believe this nonsense, I will tell any Idiot to their face that they dont have the brains of a 1st grader if they swallow this tripe.
and If you really believe this trash then your Ignorant ass and those like uneducated simpletons like you are the majority of the problem.
end of story
Oh Yeah
and Oswald planned it all and carried it out with a single pristine bullet that magicly went through several bones and made a abrupt right turn so it could go thru a seat cushion and Connely and just roll out on a gurney.
Horse feathers.........
I'm rolling my pants leg up around these stories.
Its a good thing, they designed,
the whole damn building around one critical support column, otherwise the building may have fallen on other nearby buildings.
And I suppose that all the fires were around that column.
And the engineers accidentally surrounded that column with combustible material.
Too bad people in the demolition business don't know about the critical support column, it would make their lives so much easier.
When will people WAKE UP?
Heat treaters.......
I think the metallurgists and heat treaters have a good grasp as to why those building should NOT have come down the way they did!!!!!
So your theory along with NIST is building 7...
was built like a stack of Janga blocks and it only took one getting weak to bring the whole building down in its own footprint at the speed of gravity.
And now YOU have decided the discussion is over or YOU will label people as unfit.
Join PyraBang the patriot search engine.
Here is the most authoritative presentation on the subject.
This power point presentation was put together by an organization of 430 architects, engineers, and PhDs.
I am open minded and willing to hear all sides. I challenge anyone to watch this Power Point presentation and then refute the findings.
http://www.ae911truth.net...
took a while
Razorwind Studios is an official endorser of Ron Paul, and we will live free or die! 14th alternate to MN state!
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to get through the whole thing, but I did! Very convincing, well thought out, lots of great points brought up. I sent this one to my official story believing mom.
What no challengers to this presentation?
?
I watched half and saved it
But then I was convinced the day I saw it happen. You certainly won't get an arguement from me.
so if a 50+ story steel
*edited* meh, videos do have lots of smoke...
Like they said:
Ah, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Insurance rates
On August 22nd, 2008 limelemon says:
Will insurance rates go up, now that a major flaw in steel-framed highrise buildings has been discovered?
When are they going to begin checking ever building in America (at tax payers expense) for this flaw, and fix this problem Ah, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Math Does Not Lie
The official story of the WTC being “brought down by burning jet-fuel” begs for the application of some basic fourth-grade math. We’re lead to believe that most people find math boring, but please bear with this analysis for just a minute. I hope you’ll be rewarded with a whole new way to look at it.
Two Basic Facts: (feel free to verify as you will)
1. Fuel capacity of a Boeing 757 is 11,489 gallons. This equals 1536 Cubic Feet of jet fuel (basically diesel fuel). Anybody who’s ever tried to light a wet campfire with diesel will tell you that this is not the fastest burning stuff in the world.
2. The dimensions of the Twin Towers were 208’ X 208’ X 1362 (1368) Feet tall. This equals a gross volume for each building of 58,925,568 Cubic Feet.
The “raw” ratio: 1 Gallon of fuel for every 5128 Cubic Feet of building volume.
Now, we’ve all seen images of the flames of roaring “jet-fuel explosions” upon impact. Flames that shot to the top of the building in mid air- on the outside of the building - and then gone in just a few seconds.
But let’s ignore that for a minute. Let’s assume that every single drop of jet-fuel that can be carried by a 757 made it to the inside of the building with not an ounce wasted.
The media has been very helpful in providing us with other “facts” to guide our imagination, such as “floods of jet-fuel down the elevator shafts” and “jet-fuel fires all over the building”. We’re lead (and encouraged) to believe that the entire building was doused in fuel, right? Besides, unless the entire building was engulfed in a super-hot and relentless fire, how else could it be plausible for all of those beams and columns in the lower, unaffected floors to become weakened to the point of (simultaneous) collapse? It would have to have been a fire of such intensity and so widely spread that it would be unlike anything, anyone has ever witnessed before. Perhaps that’s why no other steel-frame building in history has ever collapsed. You simply can’t get enough fuel inside to weaken one to the point of failure. But I digress…
So how much jet-fuel was in the building (assuming all of it went in- every drop- and was somehow miraculously distributed equally throughout the building)? .045 cubic inches of fuel per cubic foot of building volume. This equals 1/6th of a teaspoon per cubic foot or a different way to look at it: one cup of fuel for a volume the size of a typical office cubicle- 8 ounces per 320 Cubic Feet. In other words, about the size of a good trash-can fire.
Have you ever wondered why, after that impressive fireball of the initial impact, all you really saw was just some black (cold) smoke and little scattered flames of curtains and office furniture here and there?
It’s because there wasn’t enough fuel.
The single flaw in PNAC: Not disposing of every American with an IQ over 75.
Great post. People who
Great post.
People who might believe that 11,489 gallons of fuel is an awful lot need to also bone up on comparative volumes--for example, a fire engine routinely carries around 10,000 gallons of water in its "booster tank". A small swimming pool like the kind in someone's backyard usually has a capacity of 10,000 to 80,000 gallons. (An Olympic-sized pool, by contrast, usually holds around 375,000 gallons.)
11,000 gallons is not a lot of fuel. It's preposterous to suggest that it could take down a 100+-story building.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Black smoke,
is indicative of a cool oxygen deprived fire.
I understand your math and point.
However the official report says it was a jack hammer effect. That after the initial beams collapsed, the weight of the top section collapsed downward to the next floor setting off a pancake effect of one floor after another.
Watch the AE911 power point presentation referred to above, it speaks directly to this theory.
Hey man I said it before this is not a place for physical logic
I personally know from doing it that it takes almost 5 minutes to cut through a steel I beam with an acetylene cutting torch that is concentrated to almost 3000 degrees. They try to tell us furniture fires made the building fall in less than 10 seconds which would mean they cut the 1062 steel connection points in about one second each somehow floor per floor all the way from the top down. The crew that managed it twice that day was really impressive. They must have planned that out very precisely. I hate to say I'm impressed but if it had been a demolition done without killing 3000 people It would have been perfect.
That's the only math I need.
wanna know what else I just recently found out
Recently promoted/appointed Attorney General Michael Mukasey was the judge that made the decision on the Larry Silverstein insurance settlement where he acquired a fortune 7 billion from the towers collapse. More coincidences ??
Are you F_ckin kidding me?
How blatant can they be?
And Mukasey was the a__hole who didn't know if waterboarding was torture.
WTF!
I AM SHEEPLE
Oh yes, I am a sheeple
And oh so proud to be
I am way too smart
To believe in a conspiracy
Three towers falling straight down
It all makes sense to me
They're all just jealous
Because I live so free
Terrorists in hiding everywhere
Although I cannot see
I know that they're out there
Because I heard it on TV
My paper is honest
It would never lie to me
Oh yes, I am a sheeple
And oh so proud to be
The UN is so stupid
As blind as it can be
Anti-war protestors
Should be hanging from a tree
They and all the traitors
Ship them off to Germany
But me, I am a sheeple
And oh so proud to be
We saved the Iraqis
The bad guys had to flee
Now those people love us
They're dancing with such glee
The whole wide world should thank me
All on bended knee
Oh yes, I am a sheeple
And oh so proud to be
http://waterlime.googlepa...
Let the wolves investigate the massacre in the henhouse.
I can almost buy this stuff until you have the only guy asking questions at the NIST press conference is getting his ass censored off on C-SPAN.
If this guys questions are ridiculous, then take this opportunity to smash him. Instead, you get this real creepy soviet style censorship.
Makes me wonder about the independence of the NIST experts.
Did you notice
Whenthe guy stated his credentials ( Infowars.com ) Shayam suddenly got very very nervous gesturing frantically to the right of the stage as if to ask "what do I do ?? what do I do ??) then the guy from Infowars starts in about the spores of thermate found all over manhattan and the molten metal flowing like lava under the building. The guy looked terrified , The Guys Microphone starts going in and out so as to make it hard to hear what he's saying and then suddenly they close questioning with ten minutes left to go. You don't see what they did there ? They silenced the guy and didn't even attempt to let him ask the question.
Let's call their bluff...let's flood the NIST and everyone else
with calls and emails and say this is bull squeeze!
The government is trying to say they get the last word? Bull! We are the people...let's let them know that they can't bully us around with their faux authorities anymore!
inquiries@nist.gov
(301) 975-NIST (6478)
(301) 975-8295
NIST
100 Bureau Drive
Stop 1070
Gaithersburg, MD 20899-1070
Insurance rates
Will insurance rates go up, now that a major flaw in steel-framed highrise buildings has been discovered?
hahaha
thats was great
you should see
the aol article on this, you know how they have polls on each page, well most people said they didn't think fire brought down the building. And most said they think the feds are hiding something from 911.
Final word?
You think you will ever get a final word with the truthers?
There is no final word. They are convinced and you're an establishment shill f'n moron troll if you aren't.
Sorry...I sincerely doubt that this will be the final word.
well...
...just thank god there are still people who are willing to think critically for themselves - and for you.
NIST explains cause & effect
http://waterlime.googlepa...
Let this be the final word?!
You must be incredibly foolish to take this article as reason to believe fire brought down WTC 7. There isn't one single piece of scientific evidence WHATSOEVER in this article. It is just words without proof.
Please, STFU and don't post garbage like this.
This article,
defies common sense,
But as pepere always said, common sense is not as common as you would think.
This is a draft report.
This is a draft report. Whoever said it was the final word is a liar and not to be trusted. We can file this with other government reports that tell us about global warming and secondhand smoke.
Any defender of Ron Paul should know that the government is not good at expalaining science.
Truth is treason in the empire of lies.
I think i'll pass on the kool-aid. Thanks though.
Aku Soku Zan
One man's experience...
I drove from my home in Baltimore to ground zero on Fri. 9/14.
I was desperately looking for my youngest son who lives 20 blocks away from WTC.
I hadn't heard from him all week. All phones in his area were out.
3 things were burned into my mind forever.
1. Everything everywhere was covered with pulverized concrete. I've seen concrete structures after a fire. They don't get disintegrated into fine powder. They might crack and crumble but they don't turn to fine dust particles. They are covered with black carbon from the fire.
2. The odor was unbearable and had that acrid scent of blasted dynamite or blasting caps. It also smelled like a garbage dump, with that putrid odor of rotting food. There was also the fine airborne, dust I've experienced on plaster demolition jobs. It clings to the back of your throat.
3. As I approached NYC on the NJ Turnpike, the fire was still billowing smoke as if it was ignited that day. There was still updraft and thick black smoke clouds that stretched several miles down the Hudson River.
It was a crisp, crystal clear morning and the sun was rising behind the city.
None of these 'clues' told me anything about how it was done that day. I wasn't looking then. I "knew" how it was done. TV told me so.
When someone more learned about these matters brought the more believable facts to my attention, I clearly recalled that day. I'll never forget it.
And I'll never forget the thousands of innocent rescue and steel workers who were flocking to NY to help. There were convoys of resuce trucks loaded with men and women on the trip from MD to NY. Units from as far away from Florida.
The lucky ones were turned away by on-site officials. There were too many. They were spared the exposure to deadly toxins that have since claimed and continue to claims hundreds of lives.
NIST is not qualified to do this 'virtual' investigation.
"Committed To The Eradication Of Poverty Among Patriots"
Thank you for posting this. Well stated.
It is so nice to hear your eye-witness account. Hope your son was alright. The NIST used computer simulation to determine what happened that day. This is not real evidence, just supposition from them. Almost every eye-witness has said something, intentionally or unknownly, that calls into question the official story.
demolay: It's like a cartoon series
My son turned out to be OK.
He volunteered to drive a delivery truck for a church across the street from his apartment on Bleeker St. They had him delivering food and water to rescue workers and law enforcement personel.
He was driving from Tuesday night until Friday night, non-stop. When I found him Saturday morning he was filthy and exhausted... sleeping in his apartment.
He knew he had dodged a bullet because a filming project that he had been working on cancelled night filming near the Trade Center which was supposed to happen Monday night. He would have been wrapping-up Tuesday morning.
From there we drove to Connecticut for my daughter's wedding.
"Committed To The Eradication Of Poverty Among Patriots"
more Matrix BS
The "Final Word" from our criminal government (and their media cohorts) has ALWAYS been the government is right, and those that disagree are wrong.
So for those that still buy into this Matrix BS, you might as well give up on Ron Paul as a lost cause, because our government leaders and the entire mainstream media SAYS SO!