I want to understand something help me out okay ? This is important to me.
This is about 911. I'm not going to question it now I just want to understand something. Please if you could without debating the case of truthers versus those who believe the official story. Why do you believe one way or the other ? who are you ? why do you support one side or the other ? Is it just a belief system of some type ? I've always wondered about this.
Me I'm a musician, I'm a builder, I graduated from George brown tech in toronto ( architectural technology ) in 92 and received my certificate to build things and design buildings. I wound up mostly just reading blue prints and using a hammer most of my life but It was always satisfying. I own a business doing it now in Windsor ontario since detroit and Michigan ( where I still own a house that is for sale ) have become a ghost town for employment in the last year.
This is about getting an idea about what your thinking is or what leads you to believe one way or the other but try to do it without using proof this, proof that.
What makes you think one way or the other?
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If it was'nt an inside job
they should have all been removed for the most extreme incompetence ever in the history of the government. Certainly not deciding who did it, where to go to war, making new laws or anything but what other country they are going to live in and how they will ever pay restitution for what their incompetence and neglegence cost in lives, pain, and suffering.Allowing them to have more power was the most ridiculous thing imaginable. The fact that they had the ( ca'nt even think of a word for it) to take more power when they should have been hanging their heads in shame and begging for forgiveness. That is some kind of clue.I think there were too many coincedences that day and the way it was used to control American citizens with fear speaks volumes. It's just commons sense.
My own Top 10 Reasons for a New 9/11 Investigation
http://www.strike-the-roo...
When I first read Griffin's "For a New Pearl Harbor" I was sick to my stomach for a week -- and I had ALREADY been convinced that the government was, at the very least, covering things up about 9/11.
For a shorter piece, I offer the column linked above, which provides significant detail for the thesis that A) we are not getting the truth from our own government and B) people in our own government were likely involved in planning the attacks.
Read it and decide for yourself.
Logic defies "9/11 Truthers"
I am very logical as a CPA. I refused to "believe" it. I made friends with some people whom I respected. They started talking about what happened on 9/11. I just listened, not being of like mind. Came home and got on the computer to disprove what they said for myself. Ooops, I confirmed, so I kept digging, looking for the disproof. Digging, digging, digging. Finally after reading everything I could find, I proved it to myself. Logically, I would never have believed it. My mind does not work that way. We and Ron Paul are up against an incredible evil. We have let it go too far and we may not be able to get our country back now. Most people will simply say "let me out of this. This is bigger than I can handle. I will have to live with whatever 'they' have in mind for me." A huge part of me wants to do that. Many I know absolutely do it. But then, something in me says, "NO, this is not right. I won't allow this to continue." Find the thread about the military telling Bush they won't go to war with Russia and read it thoroughly.
Having walked both sides of the Law.
There is only two reasons to destroy evidence. To protect someone else or to protect yourself. In all murder investigations the first thing that is done is preservation of evidence, but in the greatest mass murder on the continent, our government destroyed the evidence. Am getting older and have seen greed and lust for power destroy almost everyone. The men we allow to run this country are weak. They fear. Greed and lust drive men mad. (That and my ex-wife.) Life is nothing but a long line of choices, decisions which cause a ripple effect which radiates out to contact all that is. We all make mistakes. Some are more catastrophic mistakes than others.
Building 7 is the only thing
Building 7 is the only thing you should think about.
I don't know much about physics or anything..
But just look at WTC 7 fall about 3 times. Get a nice good look.
I'm no expert, but i'm also not a dumbass. That COULD NOT have been done by fires. If it were that easy, demolition companies would not spend so much on explosives... All they would have to do is set a couple fires in the building and they'll fall (as smoothly as WTC 7 did).......
wake up.
9-11
I think some ticked off Muslims were responsible for 9-11. I'm not an engineer or explosives expert and I think there are some on both sides of the issue. Frankly, the thought of any American, even a politician, doing such a thing is just not anything I want to think much about. Until such a time as a clear case is made and charges are brought I think we'd all do much better concerning ourselves with things we can do something about. Also, I think we should all try to be kind to those on both sides of the issue. Some of these posts have been mean.... We're all in favor of liberty and pushing the feds back, right? Rally for the republic anyone?
How can you know the truth about everything but this?
I just don't get it. One leads to the other. Watch part 2 of "Zeitgeist." It picks apart every single part of the "official story." Then come back and say that. Watch 9/11 Mysteries or the Ultimate Con, Loose Change, The Ultimate Con, In Plane Site - there are LOTS of documentaries that explain it all.
They are not Americans.
They are Globalists. They are Mercenary.
Well.......to be brief
No Plane hit the Pentagon
No Plane crashed in PA as stated in that stupid hole...
The Twin Towers did not fall due to jet fuel
WTC7 did not fall because of fire...
Let the owner Larry Silverstein tell you in his own words....
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
Hmmmm???
Do your research.....and dig deep into the truth!
Just like Russia is the bad guy in the Georgia/Russia conflict...
Just Like McCain coming from behind to win....
Just Like "The Economy is Stable".....
Just Like the Gulf of Tonkin......
Just like "The Patriot Act" making us safe...
Just like WMD's....of Iraq
Just like "FILL IN YOUR OWN HERE"....
It never will end....
No belief system in place here
I'm just a licensed civil engineer who understands what it takes for a building to take the path of most resistance at free-fall speed into its own footprint. And aside from my education and experience, I was not born to be anyone's fool.
precisely...we were not born anyone's fool!!
I pose questions instead of telling someone I "know" what happened....because, honestly, none of us do know "exactly" what happened! And I think that is where most people get turned off
But the honest question is...How is it that so many things that had never ever happened before Sept 11, happened multiple times on one single day???? Without the guiding hand of someone??? The odds are incalculable!!!
I am a journeyman heat treater and self taught basic metallurgist....and no way I would believe the planes melted from the burning fuel....or the heat treated steel girders inside the buildings melting as to cause a complete collapse after no more than an hour????
NORAD
Weren't we supposed to have some kind of defense against flying missiles?
Who would ever use a large vehicle to attack someone/something?...talk about low IQ. jeeesh
THE MORE I LEARN ABOUT GOVERNMENT
THE MORE I LOVE MY GUNS
FourWindsTradingPost
Those who believe 9/11 was an "inside job,"
invariably have low I.Q's.
Yes, a few of them have college degrees, though most don't, but that doesn't equal intelligence. Every 9/11 Truther is "slow." That's been my observation, through discussions with them in other topics. They're just all around low to low-average IQ.
---
Don't blame me if there's no voice for liberty opposing McCain and Obama in the Presidential debates. I donated to Ron Paul Libertarian, Bob Barr's campaign.
thank you havn't talked to the right people!!!!!
You haven't to the right people then!!!!!
WOW
I was...and still will type a comment to answer this gentleman's question....but you my friend are out of your MIND.
My IQ has been tested several times.....around 130 to 144 range which says I am in the top 2% of the nation......
I would love to debate your "Un-educated" stance on 9/11. This would be very interesting.......
Bring any question on you would like.........
But before you do.......Before I answer.....I require you to watch this video......if you don't want to, then the conversation is over.
http://video.google.com/v...
If you do invest the time to watch this entire video...I want you to pay close attention to the section that talks about WTC7 (middle).....which in my opinion is the smoking gun.....
Now after you review this documentary.....which is not my full stance on 9/11....just one reference.....I want you to read the 48 page report from the physicist Dr. Steven Jones.....
http://www.reopen911.org/...
I am coming from a stance of 5 years of research...and read thousands of pages of documents.....
But these 2 items are a good start....
After that......then ask me any question you would like....
What are you a rocket scientist?............
"Observe the masses,and do the opposite."
Is that a belief you have with no fact behind it???
You have no facts to prove what you said. Show me the proof. I want to see the evidence of low IQ's. I want the scores that you have reviewed. If you can not provide me all this information, then I will troll you. You're just one of those kooky people that go around assuming things and believing them to be the truth. That's called mysticism. You are a fraud.
I want to see the proof that you have. Because I know you would never think anything without it. Time to put up or shut up.
Aku Soku Zan
Oh my, preferred
You get worse by the day. You do know there are doctors available to give you some hope.
He's so smart...
he got on the RP bandwagon 4 weeks ago.
He's a FUCKING GENIUS!
THE MORE I LEARN ABOUT GOVERNMENT
THE MORE I LOVE MY GUNS
FourWindsTradingPost
Preferred...
What exactly are you preferred to? You are obviously not a Ron Paul supporter, as I have seen from your other posts. I have a Bachelors degreee in Business, and am a Branch Manager of a bank All you do is insult people. If you're ever in Southern Oregon, please look me up-you can contact me directly, and I'll show you around. I'd like to introduce you to the Rogue River-life jacket not included. When you have the wolves investigating the wolves, do you expect an independent outcome? The 911 comission headed by GORELICK-which Gore do you think she was licking-or Clinton, you decide. YOU, MY FRIEND ARE A MORON! Good night. By the way, NICE DOUBLE POST F*CK$NG D#MB@SS!
I hope you have a low sperm count
people like you should not be breeding!
NO NO..Lisa C.
This is the post of the night.. I pulled a close second.
Oruval
you fucking warrior!
I don't believe the offical
I don't believe the offical story because of all the strange events that took place on 911...I can't believe a few men from the middle east with box cutters took over America that day, with out help from our goverment,and we didn't know anything about it..... It's like everybody turn their heads away, and America was open for anything that day"To me that's a conspiracy theory"..Like George Bush sitting in the class room for another hour after he found out about the planes crashing into the towers, or Dickie boy calling off the Jets, no bodies found in any of the crashes "especially in PA.", a novice pilot steering a large passenger air liner into the front door of the pentagon, and that is just a small amount of it ....I could go on for ever,but I rather not...(Is it Possible that our goverment was involed in it?) "Why not"!!, they sent thousands of our men and women to die over in Iraq for a lie, (WMOD)so they souldn't have any problems helping terrorist take over America, while pointing their fingers and proceeding with their agenda.
Sorry I don't buy it!
"Observe the masses,and do the opposite."
I am not an engineer. I am not a scientist. I am not an
builder, fireman, physicist, or posses any knowledge on how buildings go up or come down. What I am is of average intelligence (some may argue that by average I am pushing it :) and convinced that those towers--all three, did not come down by a plane alone. There are too many unanswered questions, and too many coincidences before, during and after The Fall that need addressing.
Do I ever think the people will get an answer?... No, I don't. It will remain un-investigated and covered up just like everything else. I think we have to move on and fight the battles up ahead. Our country is falling apart and we don't have time to back-peddle. The 9-11 attack will be nothing compared to what we are to face in the near future: economic collapse & millions starving, concentration camps, war, death and destruction.
Another belief of mine: we will never be able to get enough support behind a re-investigation, the sheep are too blind to see the facts. We have to put it aside for the sake of the campaign. It hurts Ron Paul to stay focused on this topic, we have bigger fish to FRY!
Thanks for letting me rant :)
sentinel
I am a fairly recent truther - since January. This came about after my daughter and her friend were telling me for 8 months that 911 was an inside job. I didn't believe them and thought they were nuts, because I thought the media was independent and would investigate and expose it if it were true. I couldn't have been more wrong!!! When I saw how the media blacked out the best candidate in my lifetime I decided to look into 911. All it took was seeing building 7 collapse, there is no way to look at that and not know it was a controlled demolition. I have been on the Internet ever since and after watching and studying 'September Clues' I have no doubt that the media is part of the crime that is 911. No wonder they do not want an honest man like Ron in office!! No wonder why they never show building 7 collapse!!! A lot of people I meet don't even know about wtc 7.
before I go to bed and say good night I want to say
the official story is crap - I only intend to defend the BS crap that relates to the FF practices of that day. They were innocent! They too were victims!
!!!Truth is treason in the EMPIRE OF LIES!!!
Of course I believe they found Bigfoot, I believe in Global
HYDROMAN
Warming, Oswald acted alone to kill Kennedy, the Branch Davidains fired first, and Santa Clause will be here in December.
Never,Never,Never believe anything the Federales tell you!
the earth is actually cooling
Oswald could not have acted alone since it's proven that jfk was shot in the back of the head and in the face, I didn't follow waco but you are probably wrong, santa clause will be here when the eatser bunny gets parolled for selling stale carrots.
I don't even get into the nuts and bolts.
I just look at the PNAC document, where these very same neocons who became "the administration" a year after they wrote the PNAC document, described in their own words how they "needed" to have a "new Pearl Harbor" type event in order for their dreams of world domination, beginning in the oil producing regions, to come to fruition.
Less than a year after these same neocons that wrote that PNAC document got into power, the "new Pearl Harbor" event occurred, and everything around it being very suspicious and full of cover ups. And the blame laid at the feet of the very people that they had already told the world that they were itching to attack. And the war came out of it, as sure as the sun rises.
That's all I need.
They had motive and opportunity, and the power to cover it up.
And they got what they wanted from it, and nobody else did.
All the nuts and bolts about the towers is interesting, but I don't need any of that to know who did it.
"Proving it" in a court of law may be another matter.
They never "proved" that Ted Kennedy killed Mary Jo Kopechne that night either. That doesn't mean he didn't do it.
pnac
was actually designed in the early 90's but i know your point.
Yes, but
the statements made about the "new Pearl Harbor" were in the PNAC document that was written and published in 2000. They came into power in Jan. 2001, and the 9/11 was Sept. 2001.
Check it out. It's a very long report, but it IS in there, and I've read it myself. If you can't find the "Pearl Harbor" reference, do a word search on the document, and it WILL show up. It's there in the 2000 report.
I've seen it
I'm not disputing it at all. I know that pnac wanted a new pearl harbour to usher in the new world order. I know that.
Yes,
I just wanted to clarify that it was actually stated publicly in close proximity to the time that they took office, and wasn't stale old talk from the early 90s.
That's all.
it is not important to know the truth.....
what is important is to check and see if you are bieng lied to. in it's totality the "offical" conspiracy theory plays out like a chinese fire drill.
Americans are expected to hold thier goverment accountable. that is what seperates us from the "pack"
at a minimum someone in our military was asleep at the wheel. I think this is called dereliction of duty. someone should have faced the firing sqaud at a minimum. that did not happen.
" the important thing is to never stop questioning, curiousity, has it's own reason for existing..
Albert Einstien
Eye witness testmony
Ill tell you what gave this whole thing away was building 7. If
they would not have brought this building down, then they probably
could have gotten away with it all. It was the most amazing site I
have ever seen. Not only was it amazing, it bore reality to the truth
of the situation something was not right here. Now, Im going to
tell you all I have learned, but I urge anyone to just spend 1hr
reading about this incident on the internet and learning the facts.
There have been numerous scholars, numerous physicists that have
analyzed this over and over and over again. And they all come to the
same conclusion, something does not add up. Building 7 was never
directly hit by a plane. Now it was stated that a piece of one of the
towers fell onto the side of building 7 and caught one of the floors
on fire. A few moments later we all witnessed the most perfect example
of controlled demolitions to ever be caught on camera. It could not be
proved that building 7 fell due to fire. My friend and I standing
there in the SCIF watching in uninterruptible awe with all those other
military members; watching building 7 fall perfectly onto its
footprint; my friend stating that it was beautifully done.
I am one of the many who don't believe the official story.
The more I read, the more I learn, the more obvious the lies are becoming.
Only this morning this report appeared in our on-line news (Australia):
http://www.news.com.au/st...
Sept 11 conspiracy theory put to bed.
No mention is made of Silverstein giving the order to pull the building.
The debunkers of conspiracies surrounding 9/11 are not giving up (and probably are getting paid handsomely for it) and give their subtle and not so subtle take on it. Repetition must be their only hope of having the lies accepted.
yes dear.....
I learned my trade in DC. I am not fooled by the official theory. but I did not even learn there was a controversy untill 2007. Richard Gage is the best one to tell this story.
http://www.ae911truth.org...
" the important thing is to never stop questioning, curiousity, has it's own reason for existing..
Albert Einstien
I agree!
Bldg 7 blows my mind and breaks my heart!
!!!Truth is treason in the EMPIRE OF LIES!!!
The answer is blowing in the wind
Furthermore, let us realize that how we choose to respond to this particular happening will inevitably reveal what kind of world we are choosing to create for ourselves
http://www.planetaryascen...
old tunes aside
how do you respond and what made you need to ?
Beware
Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded with patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader, and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar."
-- Julius Caesar on Patriotism
patriotism
the only patriotism I am aware of is that in which I defend as my life ahead of my country. If you are unable to defend your self first you will not be able to defend your family and then your country. You must be able to defend yourself first. Then your country if they are deemed worthy. In this case they are obviously not.
Small conspiracies can be hidden,
but for a conspiracy as large and complex as this one would have to be, it's a practical impossibility to keep it a secret. SOMEONE involved in it or that knew about it, or a horrified family member of someone involved, would have come forth to expose it. They would be a national hero. So the probability of it being an inside job is EXTREMELY small.
----
Don't blame me if there's no voice for liberty opposing McCain and Obama in the Presidential debates. I donated to Ron Paul Libertarian, Bob Barr's campaign.
Their are plenty of heros who have comeforth.
140+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials
520+ Engineers and Architects
120+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals
270+ Professors Question 9/11
210+ 9/11 Survivors and Family Members
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion91...
Even if there were sufficient evidence that WTC 7 was
destroyed with explosives, which I disagree there is, that still is not evidence that the U.S. government was involved in it.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
----
Don't blame me if there's no voice for liberty opposing McCain and Obama in the Presidential debates. I donated to Ron Paul Libertarian, Bob Barr's campaign.
who then ?
answer that ? marvin bush was left responsible for the security of the trade center complex. Larry silverstein leased it, the rockerfellers owned it.
they were the only ones with after hours access.
No one has come forth
that was involved in it, or knew of it, to expose the conspiracy. The conspiracy would have to involve a huge number of people. Because of this. the more time that passes, the less and less likely that it was an "inside job." And also just the fact that the conspiracy would require so much personnel, makes it unlikely that anyone would be willing to take part in it because the probability of someone exposing it would be too great - due to fear of being executed for treason.
The inside job conspiracy theory is just not sensible thinking.
----
Don't blame me if there's no voice for liberty opposing McCain and Obama in the Presidential debates. I donated to Ron Paul Libertarian, Bob Barr's campaign.
Your Karma
is poor. Pray you aren't a retard in your next life... For you are teetering on being one in this existence.
Post of the night.
___________
Lisa C.
www.dvds4delegates.com=Ron Paul, the 44th U.S. President
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