Weekend Pondering - Civil Disobedience
I do believe that in the near future - we will - many of us will - have to make a decision whether we'll practice civil disobedience. Of course I believe in that - I believe that Gandhi and Martin Luther King did bring about positive changes and they weren't violent people. But when the state goes off track, you usually do have to stand up. Just when civil disobedience should be practiced is an individual, personal decision.
- Ron Paul, 8/20/2008 (Part II of this interview)
What do you know about civil disobedience? The idea is not discussed much in our current media zeitgeist.
It was during the presidential campaign that I first watched the movie Gandhi, on the recommendation of Gary North, in his article Ron Paul, the Mahatma on Lew Rockwell's site. That is a great article and should not be missed.
Some time after I read North's article, I rented the movie. I'd never seen it before. It is a masterpiece. Here is the five minute trailer:
It is a long movie - over 3 hours - but the time flies. It is the best kind of movie because there is so much to learn from it. So get to the video store, find some time this weekend, clear the schedule, turn off the phone, get comfortable, and settle down to be awestruck and inspired. You can even watch the whole thing on Google video. Then come back here and share with us what you learned, observed and thought.
The movie "tells the story of a man who could not possibly win the battles he chose to fight, but did anyway," says Gary North in the article. Did as in did fight them, and did as in did win them.
But such victories do not come without a price. How far are you prepared to go in the fight for liberty? It is not a question you have to answer here or now. As Dr. Paul said, "Just when civil disobedience should be practiced is an individual, personal decision." But it is a question that we will all have to ponder and face down the road.
Considering that Ron Paul is our hero, I believe that we can learn more about him and his philosophy by learning about his heroes.
Thank you.
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A Future March
This is a serious issue, requiring serious consideration.
In the midst of this sober discussion, here is a quick, one-panel break from the seriousness. I look forward to this day, when this is all we'll have to march in the streets about.
When Ron Paul
Talks about this tomorrow, we need to get the Video.
Let's Be Uplifted
....and get it started:
http://www.dailypaul.com/...
Here's a plan we can give to the patriots:
I'm not advocating these, just pointing out these are examples of Civil Disobedience:
1) Write in Ron Paul (its easy, free and even if it isn't on the news there will be an awful lot of pollsters wondering what happened)
2) Pay off debt and stop using banks.
3) If you have a civil service job take an extended leave and network with others who also leave.
4) If you're in the armed services go AWOL and network with others who help out those in the armed services who go AWOL.
5) If you're a trucker stop driving, or go really slow to deliver your goods. If you're in transportation either strike or purposefully delay trips by peaceful means.
6) File specific Civil Suits against mostly all members of congress (and most of the rest of elected offices) for not upholding their oath of office.
7) Logjam the broadcasters (NPR, etc.) who take calls with a coordinated effort and ask them the same question.
All of these ideas take a coordinated effort. The NWO isn't going to feel a thing if one or even a thousand do these things. If we get a critical mass like Ghandi to do one thing all at once then we might have a chance for change.
The problems that I see are 1) People don't see the problems through the smokescreen of the media and 2) The NWO has shown they have no problem arresting people for no reason in their own home ( as shown in the RNC and DNC conventions). And there isn't anything on the media to tell people what's happening.
So, unless someone can generate the type of enthusiasm Ron Paul did with his debates speeches then things like civil disobedience or successful money bombs might be a thing of the past.
The good thing is I see John McCain's VP pick as an olive branch to the Ron Paul supporters. She really like Ron Paul and has said this in several interviews-and upholds alot of his values. So,I think with all the pressure the r3volution brought helped to not pick another run of the mill neocon.
McSame's VP pick will not
McSame's VP pick will not further our cause. If anything it's making smart people like you think that her choice will somehow better our cause. I got news for you she is a puppet. She's pro-war , and has admitted she knows nothing about Iraq even though her own son is laying his life on the line over there. She will not help us.When someone buys your dinner and hotel then there's an unspoken obligation to be a good guest and go along with the plan. It's an old male female game. I notice most of the people that are drooling over Palin do seem to be male... hmmmmm
I'm not saying vote for McCain cause of her
But I do see it as a good sign that their VP pick might have been influenced due to Ron Paul's supporter base. Without that McCain might have picked someone more hawkish and less naive-aka Dick Cheney 2.0.
I applaud allowing her son to serve in a war she believes in. It speaks of integrity and honor the republican party has been lacking for quite some time. Republicans aren't just a club for rich kids, some of us believe in the values Ron Paul illucidated in his speeches. She might not think the American government can be so corrupt that they're maintaining a fake war on terror. She's not alone-millions still think some guys in a cave are a threat. That's not stupidity, its ignorance and its understandable with our deplorable media.
Here's what I see in her-a young politician who's shaken up the establishment in a very short time in her VERY important state. I think the NWO was trying to get rid of two birds with one stone. She would have opened up drilling in ANWR which the NWO doesn't want-as a VP she's spayed unless she can use her power like Cheney (which is tough cause he's a veteran Washington Insider). And the NWO gets some of McCain's detractors to shut up. I actually fear for her if McCain gets elected cause from all her decisions so far (she made no decision in the war) it seems to be the exact thing the NWO doesn't want.
You APPLAUD those who sign
You APPLAUD those who sign up to kill people, IN YOUR NAME, who've done nothing to threaten you? You APPLAUD the families who support them?
This war is an atrocity. There is no possible logically sound way to defend it without abandoning the core libertarian principle of non-aggression. It cannot be sanitized.
Over a million Iraqi civilians are now dead, BECAUSE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Don't ever forget that.
P.S. Palin is about as unlibertarian as it gets. She is a hardcore social conservative. But that seems to be the trend around here lately, so I shouldn't be surprised. Too many supposed libertarians are perfectly happy to abandon social liberty as long as they think they can have fiscal liberty. Well guess what? You can't. It's all or nothing. That used to be the libertarian argument against Democrats, for crying out loud! Except it was the other way around: we showed them how you can't have social liberty without fiscal liberty. Now some of us have abandoned that and basically become stripped-down Republicans under the paleoconservative Constitution Party banner. I thought we were libertarians! What happened!?
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Liberty for Dummies
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Democrats want to be your mommy.
Republicans want to be your daddy.
Libertarians want to treat you like an adult.
I Like Your Point
We don't need to advocate a vote for her ticket in order to be sensitive to how her career will influence people we care about.
There does not yet appear to be any reason for a sharp attitude towards Sarah Palin.
I, for one, intend to be hopeful for her career development.
I was reminded of this final scene in an excellent movie ( except for it's smarmy liberal panderings) :
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
Let's not be petty.
Ron Paul 2008... it's not too late!
~Delegates~ Vote Ron Paul First Round or Sit Down...
I have attached a Golden Fema Ticket for those of you who vote for McCain in the first round.
__________________________
http://i537.photobucket.c...
Golden FEMA ticket
All the dirt you can eat.....lol
; )~
~Delegates~ Vote Ron Paul First Round or Sit Down...
I have attached a Golden Fema Ticket for those of you who vote for McCain in the first round.
__________________________
http://i537.photobucket.c...
IN a civil disobedience you
IN a civil disobedience you have FED., STATE & local GOV't to deal with. This is what makes for an almost impossible task of revolt. You don't know who is involved with who.
So we cannot do anything simmilar to a physical revolt unless there are years of planning involved, similar to when the founding fathers took on the task.
Definately don't figure on an attempt by yourself, you'll just get in trouble and be labeled such. And don't forget the fathers had help from overseas.
A friend,
TLF
The shot heard around the world!!
This is our time.
BOO YA !!!
BOO YA !!!
krmaya,
How are you today?
Hummm
Any conclusions?
Night bump...
~Delegates~ Vote Ron Paul First Round or Sit Down...
I have attached a Golden Fema Ticket for those of you who vote for McCain in the first round.
__________________________
http://i537.photobucket.c...
Bump
This is an important issue to consider: what action will we take when the time comes?
Bump!!
This is our time.
Are you ready to die
for your convictions? Make no mistake, the neocons will use the most ruthless means to hang onto the power they now weild. Kent State was the most transparent incident to show just how much these pirates value an idividuals life. There is no American or countryman to these lowlifes and they will erase you and yours as soon as look at you. Unless there is an unprecedented uprising and cohesion of effort, with individuals willing to give the ultimate sacrifice, civil disobedience will be a dead end at this time. They got the big guns, and helicopters and infrared scopes and all kind of weaponry that will root out any threats to their supremacy and we let them have it.. Unless the military is on your side in any dispute with these scions of freedom, you are doomed, no matter how peaceful your dissent may be. They have demonstrated their ability to skirt the Constitution in many ways and instances to use the military against the populace.
Ha Ha Ha tell That To The Bear That Got Their Butts Handed To
them on a platter by the Afghani's
Delegates Revolt For Freedom !!!
On the outside chance
you are thinking of the recent incidences in Afghanistan and referring to the Bear getting its butt kicked answer this. Where do you think the insurgents, be it the Taliban or Al Quiada, has gotten the funding to revive their fight? The "Bear",as you so quaintly call it, allowed the growing of opium poppies just as the shadows in our government are allowing it. A few thousand GI's lives are nothing compared to the value of their control of this poison. Be it the Bear or Uncle Sam the cash crop of Afghanistan will prevail. The only countries populace as well as their income these jerks can control is our own. Praise the boob tube baby.
Ghandi was influence by Throeau, so it actually has a strong
American tradition.
bump
This is our time.
here is a better movie to see...
"OPEN RANGE"...
http://www.imdb.com/title...
trailer:
http://www.imdb.com/title...
THANKS
مرسى الحب
توبيكات
sitemap
Ok Michael
I watched the movie for the first time.
Seems to me that it is usually the British that causes these conflicts...
(Anyone have a you-tube of McCain stating that he is a 'Federalist' in the second to last debate?)
Also, note the 'Terrorism' - even back then...
Who Governs the Governless?
yeah total surrender
I am sure that would be the best course of action. I mean i would completely trust our adversaries to give up control w/ a friendly pretty please. this movement is doomed to fail not because we are wrong but the fact that we did not stand up during the primaries and will not stand up even as they take us into world war three. Guy's check your pants and see if jimmy and the twins are still down there .
I checked
all is well with jimmy & the twins.
This movement is destined to prevail,
one soul at a time. There is no doubt in my mind.
I like that thought
Thanks
No doubt whatsoever
When the going gets tough, warriors kick ass!
LOL, "Jimmy and the
LOL, "Jimmy and the twins."
Seriously though, how many federal agents have you shot lately?
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Liberty for Dummies
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Democrats want to be your mommy.
Republicans want to be your daddy.
Libertarians want to treat you like an adult.
Delegates: Practice civil disobedience at the RNC
It may be our last chance to restore the Republic. Stand up tall and vote for Dr. Paul in the first round. If you're bound, take a rest room break and vote for Dr. Paul during the second round. This is not illegal, this is civil disobedience aimed at reclaiming our Republic. Find your courage and do the right thing!
Good idea
Great Idea
Davy C Rockett
http://www.thelibertypost...
http://screamfreedom.blog...
http://christianquest.net
Thats right Gil
It is our last chance to save our Republic.
great idea!!!!!
*muah*
disobiedience
Civil strife is a LAST resort. No one wins. WE have become a society of paper pushers & indoor activists. OUR society does not accept violence as a corrective means, any longer . WE need to stick to
a menu that the general population can relate to, untill ALL avenues have been EXhausted. We cannot be in too big a hurry and must consider that the COUNTRY took this long to get screwed up, it will take a while to get IT back on track. There is NO instant fix. " STEADY as SHE goes".
KING did not adopt a violent posture & got the RIGHT people to promote his ideas. THE civil rights movement can thank their lucky stars that the RIGHT people were reached.
YOUR PAT,
TLF
Some links on the subject..
Jury: Seattle Liable for WTO Arrests
http://www.washingtonpost...
Anti-war activists win $2M lawsuit in NY
http://rinf.com/alt-news/...
Police Snatch Squads
http://www.publiceye.org/...
First They Came for the Protesters" - Guantanamo on the Hudson."
http://www.alternet.org/e...
Thanks Michael
Good find
Bump
Oh ya!!!
Bump For The Delegates To See And Take Back Our Country...
http://www.dailypaul.com/...
Delegates Revolt For Freedom !!!
No Voice Vote At The Convention !!! Paper Only
Delegates Revolt For Freedom !!!
The problem with Gandhi and MLK
Is that they are celebrities of so called "Civil Rights", but the reality is much different than the fiction.
It's really easy to just throw them together in a gray goop and say, "What they did worked and they were heroes."
But then you look at India today with its caste system that Gandhi did not challenge and also how MLK was a member of the communist party, it's clear something is not right.
MLK in particular had the FBI threaten him for protesting the war in Vietnam. They said they would release tapes in which he had affairs with prostitutes if he did not. Instead they probably shot him and used his message to further their own purposes.
In a dream world, civil disobedience works.
In the real world, the population is always a mob and whoever best manipulates the mob has the power.
Look at the Internet with youtube, DIGG, Blogs, myspace, wikipedia, etc...
There's always a mob and a group that seeks to control them.
Unlike Gandhi and MLK, white people aren't going to stand behind Ron Paul because he's white.
Our only chance is a two prong strategy:
1) Expand the meetup groups into community command centers that branch out from district to neighborhood support groups.
2) Continuing to nurture/invest in our own artisans and media to counteract propaganda.
Civil disobedience without a large educated base is trivial.
Look at Tibet -- they got more recognition for rioting than all of the years of civil disobedience put together.
Not much has changed since Rome.
Comparing yourself to MLK
Comparing yourself to MLK and Gandhi, by pointing out how they got it wrong, and then blessing us with your two pronged strategy...is just hilarious.
I find your post small.
I didn't compare myself to them at all...
Maybe you should get your eyes checked and read my post again.
Secondly it's not MY two pronged strategy, it's what other people are moving towards without my advice.
Did you miss the whole Campaign for Liberty, youtube videos, and Ron Paul artists works?
As 'small' as my post was, it must not be smaller than your head.
"MLK was a member of the
"MLK was a member of the communist party"
So what? Who are you, Joe McCarthy? The great thing about America is the freedom to be a member of the Communist Party, or the Libertarian Party, or any other party. Freedom of speech and association require tolerance of ideas and groups that are anathema to you. Marx didn't call for a Stalin or a Mao. You can't blame ideas for the actions done in their name. Evil people have used the Bible to justify their actions, but you wouldn't blame its authors or condemn its adherents, would you?
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Liberty for Dummies
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Democrats want to be your mommy.
Republicans want to be your daddy.
Libertarians want to treat you like an adult.
Are you another one of those...
"Let's keep trying communism till we get it right" people?
Its obvious that the communist were working with King and that "Civil Rights" were really a part of a broader communist agenda.
First we "erase" race, then borders, and the next thing you know all common sense is on the sidelines so that the NWO has everyone brainwashed and rigged up like drones.
This was a battle with the government and the media working together in some sort of NWO manner to stomp on and crush states/individual rights.
I think the right to choose your associates is a pretty important right, yet the so-called "Civil Rights" only managed to shove everyone into an overcrowded zone.
On top of that we now have an 'appeasement doctrine' where you can't even disagree with anyone with an ounce of non-whiteness (Obama for instance) without being shouted down/condemned as a racist.
Looks more like Civil Slavery and Stupidity than 'Rights' to me.
"Are you another one of
"Are you another one of those 'Let's keep trying communism till we get it right' people?"
Of course not. I'm anti-communist but pro-liberty. I'm one of those "Let's keep trying freedom of speech and association till we get it right" people.
I didn't read the rest of your post, because you are clearly a witch hunter and a non-libertarian.
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Liberty for Dummies
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Democrats want to be your mommy.
Republicans want to be your daddy.
Libertarians want to treat you like an adult.
That is where you are wrong.
Ghandi always spoke out against the Caste system..
I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word in reality. This is why right, temporarily defeated, is stronger than evil triumphant.-- Martin Luther King
Rioting isn't the form of civil disobedience that Gandhi endorsed. So keep that Grey area you speak of in self check.
You need to study a bit more before you decide to speak of such terms.
Honesty consists of the unwillingness to lie to others; Maturity, which is equally hard to attain, consists of the unwillingness to lie to oneself.--Sydney J. Harris
And yes Tibet got more controlling media publicity than all the years of civil disobedience put together because it was used to further the Agenda of the NWO. Did that make it right?
What is your agenda?
Let go of your fear.