Weekend Pondering - Civil Disobedience
Submitted by Michael Nystrom on Fri, 08/22/2008 - 23:55
I do believe that in the near future - we will - many of us will - have to make a decision whether we'll practice civil disobedience. Of course I believe in that - I believe that Gandhi and Martin Luther King did bring about positive changes and they weren't violent people. But when the state goes off track, you usually do have to stand up. Just when civil disobedience should be practiced is an individual, personal decision.
- Ron Paul, 8/20/2008 (Part II of this interview)
What do you know about civil disobedience? The idea is not discussed much in our current media zeitgeist.
It was during the presidential campaign that I first watched the movie Gandhi, on the recommendation of Gary North, in his article Ron Paul, the Mahatma on Lew Rockwell's site. That is a great article and should not be missed.
Some time after I read North's article, I rented the movie. I'd never seen it before. It is a masterpiece. Here is the five minute trailer:
It is a long movie - over 3 hours - but the time flies. It is the best kind of movie because there is so much to learn from it. So get to the video store, find some time this weekend, clear the schedule, turn off the phone, get comfortable, and settle down to be awestruck and inspired. You can even watch the whole thing on Google video. Then come back here and share with us what you learned, observed and thought.
The movie "tells the story of a man who could not possibly win the battles he chose to fight, but did anyway," says Gary North in the article. Did as in did fight them, and did as in did win them.
But such victories do not come without a price. How far are you prepared to go in the fight for liberty? It is not a question you have to answer here or now. As Dr. Paul said, "Just when civil disobedience should be practiced is an individual, personal decision." But it is a question that we will all have to ponder and face down the road.
Considering that Ron Paul is our hero, I believe that we can learn more about him and his philosophy by learning about his heroes.
Thank you.
Thanks for reminding me
I keep meaning to watch this whole film.
What's always seemed strange to me is that Gandhi was influenced by an American, Henry Thoreau, and his essay on Civil Disobedience.
(The whole thing is here: http://thoreau.eserver.org/civil.html)
My favorite part:
The authority of government, even such as I am willing to submit to — for I will cheerfully obey those who know and can do better than I, and in many things even those who neither know nor can do so well — is still an impure one: to be strictly just, it must have the sanction and consent of the governed. It can have no pure right over my person and property but what I concede to it. The progress from an absolute to a limited monarchy, from a limited monarchy to a democracy, is a progress toward a true respect for the individual.
I think it's coming full circle back to America with Ron Paul now.
And Michael I would
like to know how you pick your moderators?
I would be interested
in the moderator ZP's take on civil disobedience as he hides in the islands.
Civil disobedience. Today. Every day.
Some of the people in Keene NH practice civil disobedience every day. Where is your support for them in their excercise of their liberty and freedom? Want to know who they are? Go to www.freekeene.com
Or is the only civil disobedience worth supporting that which puts the people you want in control, to impose the rules that you'd be happy with?
Civil Disobience,
is the moral high ground.
Count me in.
I have lived easy long enough.
It is time for me to contribute to the survival of Liberty.
Bump- we are likely to gain momentum...
in peaceful, civil disobedience, especially growth in the tax honesty, tax protest group if the Obama Health (S)Care bill passes. (Between the small business owner's refusal to pay when they find they will be fined for not having 'proper coverage' and a pro-lifer's refusal to pay for that which is morally repugnant to him (or her), we could see a real peaceful revolution. Contrary to MSM spin, pro-lifers are, at least the vast majority, a peaceful lot, as are small businessmen. )
www.feministsforlife.com
-I favor extending to Israel the same honest friendship that Jefferson and the Founding Fathers urged us to offer to all nations. ...This means I also favor discontinuing foreign aid to governments that are actual or potential enemies of Israel,--Ron Paul
We do not need to get good laws to restrain bad people,
we need to get good people to restrain bad laws. --
--G.K. Chesterton
Was he a republican or a democrat?
Just kidding. I have watched this movie twice and it still has an impact to this day. Any and all animals are violent for they are without reason. What is the human race's excuse?
My Facebook Page:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1111980024&src=fftb
Thomas Jefferson once said, "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground."
Well, I guess he called that one.
A Republic, If You Can Keep It
Want to learn about a great idea for ongoing civil disobedience?
http://www.taxfree15th.com/
Think of it as a "Sabbath" on the 15th of every month.
Yea but...
I was recently in contact with the IRS to settle and old debt. No way around it.
The IRS representative told me if I do not file my past tax returns (2007, 2008), the IRS could file for me. He then proceeded to tell me how much they would assess for taxes. Is there any validity to this threat? I told him that if that happened I would file a lawsuit.
Question: Can the IRS Mafia file our tax returns for us?
Ron Paul is my President.
Ron Paul is my President.
Perfect timing,
perfect message.
thanks michael
bump for his birthday
Free yourself.
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Free yourself.
Thank you for remembering.
Thank you for remembering.
Please become a fan: www.facebook.com/dailypaul
Thanks Michael
I just watched it. It was amazing.
Free yourself.
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Free yourself.
thanks for posting this
thanks for posting this Michael.
Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Per
Very productive idea and post!
Here is a brief overview and history of Civil Disobedience.
http://science.jrank.org/pages/8660/Civil-Disobedience-Histo...
Bump
For Michele Seven
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/106332
Please become a fan: www.facebook.com/dailypaul
I watched her video on MHDs.
I love that lady and what she had to say. She would make an excellent representative.
A Future March
This is a serious issue, requiring serious consideration.
In the midst of this sober discussion, here is a quick, one-panel break from the seriousness. I look forward to this day, when this is all we'll have to march in the streets about.
When Ron Paul
Talks about this tomorrow, we need to get the Video.
Let's Be Uplifted
....and get it started:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/59483#comment-615922
Here's a plan we can give to the patriots:
I'm not advocating these, just pointing out these are examples of Civil Disobedience:
1) Write in Ron Paul (its easy, free and even if it isn't on the news there will be an awful lot of pollsters wondering what happened)
2) Pay off debt and stop using banks.
3) If you have a civil service job take an extended leave and network with others who also leave.
4) If you're in the armed services go AWOL and network with others who help out those in the armed services who go AWOL.
5) If you're a trucker stop driving, or go really slow to deliver your goods. If you're in transportation either strike or purposefully delay trips by peaceful means.
6) File specific Civil Suits against mostly all members of congress (and most of the rest of elected offices) for not upholding their oath of office.
7) Logjam the broadcasters (NPR, etc.) who take calls with a coordinated effort and ask them the same question.
All of these ideas take a coordinated effort. The NWO isn't going to feel a thing if one or even a thousand do these things. If we get a critical mass like Ghandi to do one thing all at once then we might have a chance for change.
The problems that I see are 1) People don't see the problems through the smokescreen of the media and 2) The NWO has shown they have no problem arresting people for no reason in their own home ( as shown in the RNC and DNC conventions). And there isn't anything on the media to tell people what's happening.
So, unless someone can generate the type of enthusiasm Ron Paul did with his debates speeches then things like civil disobedience or successful money bombs might be a thing of the past.
The good thing is I see John McCain's VP pick as an olive branch to the Ron Paul supporters. She really like Ron Paul and has said this in several interviews-and upholds alot of his values. So,I think with all the pressure the r3volution brought helped to not pick another run of the mill neocon.
http://killfiat.blogspot.com/
McSame's VP pick will not
McSame's VP pick will not further our cause. If anything it's making smart people like you think that her choice will somehow better our cause. I got news for you she is a puppet. She's pro-war , and has admitted she knows nothing about Iraq even though her own son is laying his life on the line over there. She will not help us.When someone buys your dinner and hotel then there's an unspoken obligation to be a good guest and go along with the plan. It's an old male female game. I notice most of the people that are drooling over Palin do seem to be male... hmmmmm
I'm not saying vote for McCain cause of her
But I do see it as a good sign that their VP pick might have been influenced due to Ron Paul's supporter base. Without that McCain might have picked someone more hawkish and less naive-aka Dick Cheney 2.0.
I applaud allowing her son to serve in a war she believes in. It speaks of integrity and honor the republican party has been lacking for quite some time. Republicans aren't just a club for rich kids, some of us believe in the values Ron Paul illucidated in his speeches. She might not think the American government can be so corrupt that they're maintaining a fake war on terror. She's not alone-millions still think some guys in a cave are a threat. That's not stupidity, its ignorance and its understandable with our deplorable media.
Here's what I see in her-a young politician who's shaken up the establishment in a very short time in her VERY important state. I think the NWO was trying to get rid of two birds with one stone. She would have opened up drilling in ANWR which the NWO doesn't want-as a VP she's spayed unless she can use her power like Cheney (which is tough cause he's a veteran Washington Insider). And the NWO gets some of McCain's detractors to shut up. I actually fear for her if McCain gets elected cause from all her decisions so far (she made no decision in the war) it seems to be the exact thing the NWO doesn't want.
http://killfiat.blogspot.com/
You APPLAUD those who sign
You APPLAUD those who sign up to kill people, IN YOUR NAME, who've done nothing to threaten you? You APPLAUD the families who support them?
This war is an atrocity. There is no possible logically sound way to defend it without abandoning the core libertarian principle of non-aggression. It cannot be sanitized.
Over a million Iraqi civilians are now dead, BECAUSE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. Don't ever forget that.
P.S. Palin is about as unlibertarian as it gets. She is a hardcore social conservative. But that seems to be the trend around here lately, so I shouldn't be surprised. Too many supposed libertarians are perfectly happy to abandon social liberty as long as they think they can have fiscal liberty. Well guess what? You can't. It's all or nothing. That used to be the libertarian argument against Democrats, for crying out loud! Except it was the other way around: we showed them how you can't have social liberty without fiscal liberty. Now some of us have abandoned that and basically become stripped-down Republicans under the paleoconservative Constitution Party banner. I thought we were libertarians! What happened!?
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Liberty for Dummies
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Democrats want to be your mommy.
Republicans want to be your daddy.
Libertarians want to treat you like an adult.
I Like Your Point
We don't need to advocate a vote for her ticket in order to be sensitive to how her career will influence people we care about.
There does not yet appear to be any reason for a sharp attitude towards Sarah Palin.
I, for one, intend to be hopeful for her career development.
I was reminded of this final scene in an excellent movie ( except for it's smarmy liberal panderings) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw5wetGMCrA
Let's not be petty.
Ron Paul 2008... it's not too late!
~Delegates~ Vote Ron Paul First Round or Sit Down...
I have attached a Golden Fema Ticket for those of you who vote for McCain in the first round.
__________________________
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Golden FEMA ticket
All the dirt you can eat.....lol
; )~
~Delegates~ Vote Ron Paul First Round or Sit Down...
I have attached a Golden Fema Ticket for those of you who vote for McCain in the first round.
__________________________
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IN a civil disobedience you
IN a civil disobedience you have FED., STATE & local GOV't to deal with. This is what makes for an almost impossible task of revolt. You don't know who is involved with who.
So we cannot do anything simmilar to a physical revolt unless there are years of planning involved, similar to when the founding fathers took on the task.
Definately don't figure on an attempt by yourself, you'll just get in trouble and be labeled such. And don't forget the fathers had help from overseas.
A friend,
TLF
see to your liberty
Impaled 2x
I hope you're being ironic (what is TLF?).
The patriots of our first Revolution were up against the greatest military and naval power in the world. Yes, they needed help from France in Yorktown, but what softened up the British forces for their eventual defeat wasn't the French navy, it was the battles of the Southern campaign, which were more like mini-guerilla civil wars, Patriots against Loyalists. Small concerted efforts are effective, because it *did* work in the American Revolution.
If there are enough who are willing to participate in civil disobedience, it will be effective. In the case of the American Revolution, about 1% of the population (25,000 of 2.5 million) gave their lives for the cause of freedom. I don't see why we can't do the same thing with the same percentage.
I have many shortcomings in my personal life, but one of them is not living in fear of the government. I've already written enough (here and elsewhere) that it would not be hard for them to find me...if they wanted to bother. And if there are millions of us, there will be too many of us for them to bother with.
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietam servitutem. ("I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude"). Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 30 January 1787.
The shot heard around the world!!
This is our time.
BOO YA !!!
BOO YA !!!
krmaya,
How are you today?
Hummm
Any conclusions?
Night bump...
~Delegates~ Vote Ron Paul First Round or Sit Down...
I have attached a Golden Fema Ticket for those of you who vote for McCain in the first round.
__________________________
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Bump
This is an important issue to consider: what action will we take when the time comes?
Bump!!
This is our time.
Are you ready to die
for your convictions? Make no mistake, the neocons will use the most ruthless means to hang onto the power they now weild. Kent State was the most transparent incident to show just how much these pirates value an idividuals life. There is no American or countryman to these lowlifes and they will erase you and yours as soon as look at you. Unless there is an unprecedented uprising and cohesion of effort, with individuals willing to give the ultimate sacrifice, civil disobedience will be a dead end at this time. They got the big guns, and helicopters and infrared scopes and all kind of weaponry that will root out any threats to their supremacy and we let them have it.. Unless the military is on your side in any dispute with these scions of freedom, you are doomed, no matter how peaceful your dissent may be. They have demonstrated their ability to skirt the Constitution in many ways and instances to use the military against the populace.
If not us than who?
Ha Ha Ha tell That To The Bear That Got Their Butts Handed To
them on a platter by the Afghani's
Delegates Revolt For Freedom !!!
Revolt For Freedom !!!
.
.
On the outside chance
you are thinking of the recent incidences in Afghanistan and referring to the Bear getting its butt kicked answer this. Where do you think the insurgents, be it the Taliban or Al Quiada, has gotten the funding to revive their fight? The "Bear",as you so quaintly call it, allowed the growing of opium poppies just as the shadows in our government are allowing it. A few thousand GI's lives are nothing compared to the value of their control of this poison. Be it the Bear or Uncle Sam the cash crop of Afghanistan will prevail. The only countries populace as well as their income these jerks can control is our own. Praise the boob tube baby.
If not us than who?
Ghandi was influence by Throeau, so it actually has a strong
American tradition.
bump
This is our time.
here is a better movie to see...
"OPEN RANGE"...
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0316356/
trailer:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0316356/trailers-screenplay-vi39...
2Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
Ok Michael
I watched the movie for the first time.
Seems to me that it is usually the British that causes these conflicts...
(Anyone have a you-tube of McCain stating that he is a 'Federalist' in the second to last debate?)
Also, note the 'Terrorism' - even back then...
Who Governs the Governless?
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Regarding Palin: I believe we are watching in real time the rise of the third party, which will be controlled by the powers that be from its' inception.
Next Scam: "Cash For Cash"
http://www.RonPaul2012.com
yeah total surrender
I am sure that would be the best course of action. I mean i would completely trust our adversaries to give up control w/ a friendly pretty please. this movement is doomed to fail not because we are wrong but the fact that we did not stand up during the primaries and will not stand up even as they take us into world war three. Guy's check your pants and see if jimmy and the twins are still down there .
I checked
all is well with jimmy & the twins.
This movement is destined to prevail,
one soul at a time. There is no doubt in my mind.
I like that thought
Thanks
No doubt whatsoever
When the going gets tough, warriors kick ass!
LOL, "Jimmy and the
LOL, "Jimmy and the twins."
Seriously though, how many federal agents have you shot lately?
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Liberty for Dummies
----------
Democrats want to be your mommy.
Republicans want to be your daddy.
Libertarians want to treat you like an adult.