Do we now vote Obama or McCain?
Posted August 30th, 2008 by sobrdup
output
Let's be realistic. We will end up with either Obama or McCain as the next President of the United States. My feeling is that ALL Paul supporters should now try and help Barrack Obama win the election. Yes, I know that is not an easy sell based on libertarian thinking. However, I think the priority is the war, and further warmongering. Given that, I feel it would be better for Obama to win.
It is obvious that McCain is playing to Paul supporters with the Palin VP pick. It was a brilliant move, as it will also encourage disgruntled Hillary supporters to swing his way - and many already have according to polls. The republican ticket already picked up Obama's tagline of "change", but that's just telling the people what they want to hear. Barrack Obama was against the Iraq war from the start, and is more likely to work towards diplomatic solutions to problems.
Ron Paul himself said that if he was forced to pick he would have to lean toward Obama because of his foreign policy positions. In fact, he said the Iraq war was his main motivation for running again for president.
Staying home, or voting for Bob Barr, will not help Obama to win. I am currently planning to vote Obama, and maybe do more to help him win. Please let me know your thoughts on this very important topic.
UPDATE: Thanks to everyone for their replies. I didn't find the exact video where Ron Paul said he would choose Obama if he had to make a choice, but I did find one where he references it. View it here. Just so you all know, I have always been a registered democrat. I voted for Bill Clinton twice while I was "asleep" so to speak. I was exposed to Ron Paul via the Internet and became exposed to our larger problems. I now lean hardcore libertarian and would consider myself more an independent. My belief is that neither the republican or democratic parties were started with the intent to serve the military-industrial-complex, big oil, bankers, etc. They got that way after years of steering themselves. Like it or not these two parties represent where our country as a whole has gravitated - the voting numbers are there. We have a long road to change our country to be how we would have it be. In the meantime, however, we are at war which I personally consider to be serious. This is the ONLY reason I would question whether to vote based on principle, or vote for the lesser of poor choices. Thanks again for all the replies, and for keeping an open mind.
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McCain is a facsist with socialist leanings and Obama.....
.....is a socialist with facsist leanings. Gee, what a tough choice. Nahhhhhh, I think I will vote for the same candidate I have for the last 20 years. The only qualified Presidential candidate. Instead, why don't you try voting for who you think is the best candidate, and not who you think is going to be the winner? I am going to vote for a man who I would like my children to emulate, and that description will never fit Obama or McCain.
Will Your Vote Break a Tie?
If you think your vote could make the difference in who gets elected, choose the lesser evil if you want to, but I, for one, will only vote for the best candidate in the race, regardless of his chances.
You can be short-sighted and vote for an awful candidate because he's less awful and make no difference in the end result, or you can vote for the best candidate or message this time and every time until the majority see the light and join you.
I'll be supporting the LP; you know, the party that actually nominated Ron Paul before he was cool.
The message that sends the GOP could be measurable. Imagine the LP candidate going from a typical 1% to 2, 3 or even 10% in the polls: no way would they misinterpret that signal. On the other hand, if Obama gets 2. 3 or 10% more than McCain it would mean --- what? Will they give the Ron Paul freedom fighters the credit for that?
IMissLiberty
sobrdup, I liked you better when you were drinking.
Not voting for either, sorry.
___________
Lisa C.
www.dvds4delegates.com=Ron Paul, the 44th U.S. President
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The answer to your question
is "no."
Seems a pretty simple answer, actually. You may need to educate yourself a bit more on this topic if you're even asking the question and not dismissing it for however many reasons have already been given to you.
For liberty!! *gong*
Ron Paul Gets My Vote No Ifs And Or Butts About It...
IN BIG BLACK MAGIC MARKER or Sharpie. I may even guy one if those giant joke ones to mark my ballot so they can make no mistake who I voted for....
Delegates Revolt For Freedom !!!
No... We don't.
I think that is pretty clear.
~Delegates~ Vote Ron Paul First Round or Sit Down...
Stop feeding this troll
I don't think RP said that
I think he said that Obama is closer to his views because he opposes the war - he never said he'd vote for him. Don't give in. The MSM and all the power brokers have always gotten their way by forcing us to choose between two evils. The only thing we can do is refuse to play by their rules anymore. I will write in Ron Paul unless he endorses a candidate. And if he does, I will vote for that person because I trust his judgment. I could never live with myself if Obama was elected and he started that socialized medicine and I helped put him there. Besides, Obama has no problem renegging on his word, remember the telecom deal? He probably woudn't end the war anyway.
And another thing,
in that video they asked Ron Paul an unrealistic leading question.
If you had your choice of 2 medecines, 1 would kill you, and 1 would just make you sick to your stomach, you too would probably choose the second one.
Have you learned nothing in the last year?
Why waste your vote?
Why throw your principles out the window?
Why compromise your integrity?
Of course, we will probably end up with McSame or Obama. At this point, it doesn't matter which one wins, they are both the same.
What we should be doing is uniting under Ron Paul's direction and voting as a block to get the biggest protest vote we can muster and prove a point to this country that there are a lot of disenfranchised voters who are looking for some real change.
I believe I can wait a few more days to see the outcome of all our efforts, and then decide.
This is rich...
as late as yesterday, many at this site were screaming "heresy" when the name "Bob Barr" is even mentioned. Now, you're asking us to choose between McCain and Obama? As I recall, Ron Paul responded to a question about McCain being a better choice than Obama earlier in the campaign, and Dr. Paul's response was that he didn't think so. That's hardly an endorsement; and, at least two Obama defining moments have occurred since. First, Obama voted for FISA with telecom immunity, then Obama picks "McCain foreign policy clone" Joe Biden as his running mate.
After the way McCain and the RNC have treated us and Dr. Paul, I wouldn't vote for McCain if Ron Paul were his running mate.
While I prefer Chuck Baldwin, he won't be on the ballot here in Georgia.
So, if McCain's the candidate, I'll vote for Bob Barr, while simultaneously doing everything in my power to defeat any GOP incumbent except Ron Paul, Walter Jones and, maybe, Roscoe Bartlett.
I will vote for neither of
I will vote for neither of them.
No and No
Make one of two bad choices sheeple? Obama had like all of Israel in the front row of the DNC. You MUST vote another way to have a voice. This growing number is what will create the 3rd party in time.
Yummy
Which half of the same War Party turd sandwich that has been force-fed to the good people of America for decades do you want to take a giant bite out of?
Nah. I'd rather eat dirt, thanks.
----
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"We really do have...a once in a lifetime opportunity to take the Republican Party back to where it was." -Kent Snyder, 1959-2008
Ron Paul will get my vote.
~Delegates~ Vote Ron Paul First Round or Sit Down...
I have attached a Golden Fema Ticket for those of you who vote for McCain in the first round.
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You've have obviously been
You've have obviously been drinking. Maybe you should get yourself "sobrdup". Sorry if I come across as an a-hole, but there is nothing anyone could ever say to get me to vote for Obama or McCain. Even if Dr. Paul came out and overtly endorsed either candidate (mind you that is unlikely) I still would never pull the lever for either one of them. I won't follow lock step behind anyone anymore, Dr. Paul or otherwise. I have my own views, opinions and convictions. I will not compromise them.
I would never vote for
I would never vote for either of those scoundrels unless they made a binding contract to support the same principals, laws, and ethics we believe in and that are espoused by Ron Paul. I might consider voting 3rd party but I am now waiting until the last minute to see how things pan out. Otherwise I will write in RPs name. My vote is now against the two evils and their NWO.
Obama is no less pro-war
Obama is no less pro-war than McCain. Obama is just more vague about it because he doesn't want to lose the anti-war support he has. Obama states on his own Web site that he wants to attack Pakistan and begin global military operations. How does that make him the anti-war candidate?
Notice, Obama never says, "Bring the troops home!" he just says to get them out of Iraq, because he wants to use them to attack other countries instead.
Of course, McCain is no better, so I will not be supporting either, regardless of who their VP picks are.
Neither
Why would you vote for either of these communists?
When freedom is at stake, silence is not golden – it is yellow- Tom Anderson writer patriot. 1910-2001
"Any people that would give up liberty for a little temporary safety deserves neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
In Dr. Paul's own words..
Please pay extra attention to the end of the video. (See my updated post at the top) Dr. Paul says:
"He (Obama) probably doesn't have real solid beliefs. He will be converted when we convert his young people. That's what will convert him. The politicians in Washington don't have much philosophy, probably never will, but that's all right. That's why we have a chance by converting people's hearts and minds... and that's where we've made our progress."
That's all fine and good but
That's all fine and good but isn't that putting the cart before the horse? What Dr. Paul is saying here is what we all know to be true, politicians don't have solid convictions, they say whatever they think people want to hear to win votes. To make change you have to sway the voters opinions. How does voting for Obama sway anyone's opinion? It doesn't! Voting for Obama or McCain simply tells my fellows that I'm OK with the status quo, everything will be fine, we just need to plug in the right personalities with the current system and it will get better. BS Our country is broken...WE NEED A DOCTOR. If enough of us out here wake up and start voting what we believe things will change...if we don't, change is just a word.
Small changes.
What I'm trying to say is that we will never flip the country in any given direction overnight. We didn't get this way overnight. My belief is that kicking the neo-cons out is a step in the right direction. Is it a home run? Of couse not, but if we can become less of a warmongering country I think we are better off.
The only advantage I see to
The only advantage I see to having Obama as president is this:
His economic policies of extreme taxation, combined with a left leaning congress, may very well bring on the total economic collapse quickly enough that people will wake up before it's too late. By too late I mean, if it continues to slowly grind down to a standstill, the government will continually sieze power until the collapse will bring a police state and martial law. I'm hoping we haven't crossed that line yet but may well have.
I must ask though; if you believe an Obama administration will bring about a peaceful end to our empire building, what do you base this opinion on...rhetoric? Because honestly, nothing in my lifetime of voting for these idiots leads me to believe there's an end to protecting the petro-dollar anytime soon.
Well, yes, essentially.
The people swept Democrats into congressional power because of dissatisfaction with the war. Unfortunately, politicians (except for Ron Paul) do what is popular, easy, or in their interest, so the democrats did nothing about standing up to Bush. I only know that electing McCain will send the signal that the Bush policies are on the right track.
Voting for Barr will send
Voting for Barr will send all the same positive messages to the GOP as voting for Obama, while also sending the messages that the federal government is too big, and that third parties are to be reckoned with.
I watched that video link. I
I watched that video link. I saw no reference of DR. Paul supporting Obama, NONE WHATSOEVER. In fact I heard strong suggestions to the contrary. I guess perception is in the eye of the viewer.
Yes, I know this is not the correct video.
There WAS a video clip where Dr. Paul specifically said that HE would say Obama was the better choice - not that he wasn't quick to say it would still be out of extreme reluctance to pick him, and it was only because of his foreign policy position, which was the motivation for him running in the first place.
No way no how
would I vote for the two pigeons for the CFR. Third party clean conscious and IT makes a statement when several million people vote third party. Peace
Thanks everyone. In Dr. Paul's own words...
I found a video of Dr. Paul on this topic. Please see my updated post at the top.
WE work our hardest
to convince people there are other choices. Lie if you have to.You know how everybody lies about the wasted vote. Start a rumor that everyone is voting 3rd party. It's the in thing to do.Come up with some catchy blips like the media does. Herd the sheeple. Keep it simple. They are obviously easily brainwashed. Maybe we can use that to our advantage.Then when someone good gets in office they will realise they were asleep and never let this happen again. In other words get them in the pen then show them they are going to be free and get to do what they want and that they can take care of themselves without the wolves standing guard. That they are'nt sheep at all. They do'nt need to be a herd and can think for themselves and it is wonderful. That the government should only keep wolves out not be the hunting wolf. Defenders of the Constitution. Not world police. When people say Ron Paul wants to be an Isolationists I get so mad. He wants free trade. He wants to be a good neighbor not a nosey neighbor. Does anyone like a nosey neighbor? I live in a rural area because I like privacy. I hate the thought that if I lived in another country I would have the US government nosing into my business telling me how to live. I feel for countries living under a tyranical government but they must stand up to it just as we must. Do you think any other country is going to save us if our government goes totally tyranical on us?
This is
utter nonsense! Vote your convictions,vote for what is right. One should never vote just because someone has a better chance of winning,that makes no sense at all.I've voted many times and I've never voted for someone that has won a election,does that mean I voted for the wrong person? Not at all,I voted my convictions so if the rest of the country didn't agree with me I'm okay with that,I did what was right.I will be writing in Ron Paul in November,because it's right.Whether it is counted or whether he wins is of no difference,I did what was right.Obama is a member of the CFR,as is McCain and no smooth talk or spit and polish will change what their agenda is.So to vote for one those is wrong under any circumstance.
RON PAUL!
I am voting for Ron Paul.
Neither Obama, McCain or even Nader (who I just saw this week) appeals to me what-so-ever. I'm also not a fan of Baldwin or Barr.
Ron Paul is my man regardless of the possibility of him winning.
3 other options
Seems around these circles the Bob Barr, Chuck Baldwin or Ron Paul write-in will get more votes than Obama. And rightfully so!
You are CRAZY
Vote for who you want, but to go from Ron Paul to Barak Obama is one huge leap. Obama, that's nuts.
If it ever comes to someone forcing me to vote
That would be the point where I take my rifle somewhere besides deer hunting. Obama is just as much a tool of the military industrial complex as McCain is.
Let's see...a bullet in the head or death by lethal injection...
When you've done your homework, at the end of the day, they're the same. They both stand for, and are controlled by, the people that want American DEAD!
So, as for me and my house, we'll vote Chuck Baldwin. He's a conservative constitutionalist that recognizes that it's not government's place to legislate morality (it's hard to legislate something you don't understand or have yourself).
I'll vote for Chuck if Ron
I'll vote for Chuck if Ron Paul endorses him. Otherwise, I think it's just a symbolic vote, because without Dr. Paul's help, he cannot get any traction at all.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
I think it does more than mere symbolism Kevin
I think that Mr. Baldwin will do much better than the Constitution Party has done in the past - even without a Ron Paul endoresment - and this will set them up nicely in four years, so that they dont have to spend all their time and money simply getting on the ballot.
What I am saying is that the
What I am saying is that the matter is in Ron Paul's hands.
Chuck Baldwin could use his help.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Endorsement
My preference would be to see an endorsement.
Absolutely,
An endorsement would settle it all, and give us something to do.
Write in?
I will .
Maybe I'm wrong? REPOST
Okay. Here is a question. Who would anyone consider a great past president? Honest question.
Thomas Jefferson.
Now once again voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil.
Besides this whole dog and pony show is staged anyway. But you go right ahead and vote for who you think will be the best president in your mind. I'll vote what I feel is principle even if that is a write in or no vote at all.
Either way the movement will go on and we will stick to our guns and continue to gain control back at the local level where upon we have a leg to stand next time the Neo-Cons decide to railroad true freedom loveing constitutional republic patriots.
The 3rd president was the only one?
.
13th president wasn't bad!
13th president wasn't bad! After WWI the top tax rate was 78%. It was raised to that level temporarily to fight the war. After the war, the rate remained above 75% despite efforts to lower it. Upon taking office Calvin Coolidge placed Andrew Mellon as head of treasury and asked him to solve the economic problems facing post war US. Mellon told Coolidge that people with money were not investing in the US but shipping their resources over seas, investing in foriegn countries to avoid excessive taxes. Coolidge asked Mellon what would be a fair rate of taxation, what would spur investment in the US. Mellon said 25%, it was done and almost overnight we were swept into the roaring 20's. Technology boomed, invention boomed, investment boomed, until.....
The US government stepped in under FDR to correct a free market adjustment and boom...a business cycle that could have been a short recession turned into the depression of the 30's
A great president would be one that uses his authority to stay out of peoples lives, a characteristic that only Ron Paul displays these days.
Exclusively focusing on this
Exclusively focusing on this particular war (i.e. Iraq), is going about things in the wrong way. As long as politicians have the ability to declare and fund wars, they will do so. The dems may choose to fight slightly different wars, on slightly different pretext’s, than the neocons, but I have not heard any of them, and certainly not Obama, promise do anything about reducing government’s ability to fight wars, period.
The way I understand it
no politician can declare a war. Only a body of politicians, i.e. Congress can do that.
One politician or more
One politician or more politicians. As long as any group of them can declare war (or commit resources to warfare without first declaring war), they will do so. Any of them will constantly monitor the world for events or regimes that offend their core electorate, and attempt to rally support around themselves by promising to use US might to redress the wrongs, teach someone a lesson, save these from those etc., etc.
To effect a long term reduction in our governments proclivity to fight wars, there are only two ways to go about it.
One is to, like Western Europe and Japan, simply have no military to speak of. Which is probably not a good idea, since the only reason the Euros and Japanese can get away with it, is that ours is so big and belligerent; and has promised to defend them.
The other, and more appealing, is to reorganize our military around defense of America proper, and reduce its ability to project force abroad. Things like getting rid of carrier groups, bringing home troops, and beefing up our own borders and immediate coastal areas, at the expense of foreign bases.
I have not heard any of the major candidates address this. Just like the neocons wants to be able to kill ‘people who hate America’ all over the world, the dems wants to retain the ability to prevent ‘genocides’ etc., etc. You’d be amazed at the number of ‘anti war’ bigwigs in lala land who wants ‘us’ to ‘do something’ about Darfur. And if only the evil, stoopid Boosh hadn’t wasted our resources in Iraq, think about all the ‘victims’ we could ‘save’………
Seems to me
Bushs' new rules give the president alot more power to do as he pleases. As long as we have the fed and the military industrial complex and other big proffiteers all (well most) of the politicians will do what they are bought to do. I will still write in Ron Paul or I'm leaning to Baldwin. But if it looks like any 3rd party candidate has a real chance I may vote for that candidate. I could not live with myself if I had anything to do with getting Mccain or Obama elected.