Jesse's Speech & Immigration

like-able guy , but I have to wonder why he is in Mexico and not here fighting the fight with us? Dr. Paul has been on the "front lines" for a long time and hasn't backed down. If Ventura wants to run for President in 2012, shouldn't he be here? He sounded a little arrogant if you ask me...too many self references. Dr. Paul never uses any references to "I" (meaning himself) to promote Liberty.

I loved that Jesse brought up his stance on immigration. The first reason I think it was awesome is because I agree with him. The second reason I think it was awesome is that probably 95% percent of the people at the rally disagreed with him but he still said it anyways. Jesse Ventura is fearless. He even talked about 9-11. His speech was probably my favorite one of the night.

Ron Paul's was also awesome as always.

Ron Paul more closely matches my own views on illegal immigration(he warned that its gotten out of control and almost has become like an invasion now) than Ventura. Sounds like Ventura has been around too many liberals, or watching too much liberal news, he seems to be actually pro-illegal immigration,pro-amnesty, and doesn't seem to think illegal immigration is any big deal and anyone who opposes it must be racists or xenophobes. Because Ventura takes this view, I could never support him. If I can't vote for Ron Paul, I'll be voting for Chuck Baldwin. RP has spoken highly of him and his views on the issues are quite close to RP's and Baldwin seems serious about wanting to stop illegal immigration, far more than obama or mccain.
http://www.betterimmigrat...

NO FENCE!! What a stupid idea a fence is ... and the whole philosophy of a fence is a lie. All I'm saying, is end the financial part of it. That's the part that stinks. I went to get a mammogram last year, and guess what. If I'm an illegal immigrant, I can get it for free. Since I'm a taxpaying American Citizen, it cost me $400. $400 I couldn't afford, either. You have to agree with me, something is really really wrong here. I agree with what you're saying, too ... if a person has to jump through all the many many hoops, why not just do it illegally?

And, all people and situations are different, we can't generalize that every situation fits what we've been saying. But what I'm saying is that a country that's drowning in debt ... to the point of downfall of the country ... it's ridiculous for that country to pay billions of dollars to folks who have never paid their dues, when the legal citizens aren't even being taken care of. It would be ridiculous for me to go illegally across the border into Columbia and expect them to pay me to live.

I work in healthcare. Let me tell you ... the folks who have the hardest time getting their care paid for are the VETERANS!! Next are the older folks on Medicare. The people that get care the easiest, ... guess who ... the folks on Medicaid. In the state where I live, 1 out of every 5 people get paid by Medicaid. And in the town where I live, it is more than 50% Mexican. A very very high percentage of those are illegal immigrants. I live with them. I work with them. I like them. But they have no right to money they haven't earned, just like the rest of us.

The problem with saying "end the welfare state" is that it isn't a solution, because we all know it won't be implemented.

I have mixed views on illegal immigration, though. I used to be 100% against it, but lately, I'm 100% against the encroaching police state. It's hard to hold both points of view simultaneously. Not unlike Dr. Paul's change of mind on capital punishment. With a government this bent, I'm not even comfortable with them enforcing leash laws for pets.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

Let me tell you (truthsanityalways) what you are SAYING each and every time you mouth the Nazi-Republican refrain,

"Well, as long as they came here legally I am ok with it".

Here is what you are saying. "I want you to go through INS hell."

That is what you are saying.

Well I have a Question: Have you ever lost your drivers licence and had to go down to DMV and wait in line, fill out forms, get photographed, pay fines/fees, take a test, etc?

Question: Did you enjoy that experience? It was all "legal". Do you feel the test could separate out the bad drivers from the good?

Question: Are you always so rightous and legal? Did you drive "legally" to work today? Went no faster than 55 mph did you? It seems to me that illegal immigration issue is a government created problem, like many others, such as the drug war, and massive amounts of "illegal" speeders each and every day, thus ensuring that we are all weary of the police.

Well if you are like most Americans you dread the thought of having to go down to the department of Motor Vehicles, DMV, and "go through the legal process".

Question: How would you FEEL about the DMV "legal process" if it was say, on steroids? That is, it was 50 times more beauocratic, 50 times more rules to follow, 50 times more forms to fill out, 50 times the fees, 50 times more humiliating, and 50 times ....no, a 1000 times longer? That is what the INS "legal process" is all about today.

I know. I met my future wife will traveling and vactioning in latin america. That was 2000. Yesterday 2008, she became a US citizen. We feel as though we have run the obstical course on a marathon of legalities and fees and paperwork.... MEANINGLESS paperwork at that! And the "citizenship test" was totally bogus. ....I mean, really, "Lincoln freed the slaves"? Further, should Bush invade Iran and Iran launch a viral bug war, perhaps we will be heading south, far South, perhaps as far as Bush in his 20,000 acre ranch in Uraguay. Perhaps he knows something about wind currents that we dont.

Are we "done" with this LEGAL immigration process now that she is finally an American citizen? Heck No! After 7 hellish years, we still have more to go. Now we must go back through the process, get a new Social Security number, refile it as an American Citizen, go through the process for New Passports which means new pictures AGAIN (They have ten on file), new fees, new forms, and we must write in to deactivate my wife's Work Permit which as as Stay at Home mom she did not want in the first Place, but had to have just to be able to get a drivers license! Crazy? Si, Mucho Loco. Oh, and did I mention, another trip to DMV to submit new paperwork showing she is an american citizen and GET a New Drivers Licence!

Now comes the fun part, the really fun part. We must start again with my adopted son and all that must be done. Oh the joys of going to elementary school with all new paperwork, forms, and name changes.

Now, you may be thinking, "Well if you want to live here, that's the price you must pay". Except that is the price I must pay. Not her. Me. I, as an American Citizen had to "go through it". It was me, not her, who had to give up 4 years tax returns. It was me, not her, who had to swear to this and to that and to submit to be interviewed etc,....all in exchange for me to have the freedom to bring into this country the woman that I love. It is me, the American citizen who gets awarded the Visa, that I inturn grant to a foreign individual. I am the one who "qualifies" under the INS "legal system".

You can bet I resented each and every minute of it. I found it especially ....amazing that there was not ANY OTHER WAY.

Now, let me back up. Let me ask you, What if the foreign person does not want to be an American citizen? My wife was never especially thrilled with the idea of becoming an American citizen, (except for the American Passport which is an E ticket that gets you into any country around the world, just about). Well, such is the case with my wife's mother. My childrens grandmother likes the USA Tourist Visa we got for her. She just visits 3 or 4 months out of the year and goes back to be with her other grand children. Nice arrangement, every one is happy, well not so fast. Some INS agent thought otherwise and did not like our happy arrangement of our traveling grandma.

Upon the last entrance into the USA, the INS agents stamped her Tourist Visa "one last time" and announced that "She should apply to be a US citizen if she wants to just come into America again". Furious, we raced off to our two immigration attorneys, "Can they do that? Can they just end a perfectly valid turist visa, just because?" Answer: "YES, they have all the powers of your local police, without ANY restrictions or CITIZEN RECOURSE. You are lucky they stamped her turist visa entering the USA for the 4 time in two years. They could have just sent her back, retained her visa, and denied entry. They could have, on a whim, just decided to strip search her, body cavity check and all, just because they dam well can. No "propable cause", no proof, no nothing is needed. And you have no recourse to sue the INS agent who does this or says mean insulting things or even a strip search. They have full power that local police could only dream of having. There are no cameras. The INS and officiers, while physically ON USA soil, are on a legal fiction, as in fictionally not on USA soil and thus don't have to abide by say, allowing an attorney to be present, right to represent, and so forh. They do have a process, but we hear all the horror stories. Nothing a US citizen can do about. Get your wife's Grandmother a dam USA citizenship if she ever wants to visit her little grandkids for Christmas and birthdays again."

How is that? How does that sit with my fellow RP R3VOLutionary Patriots?

Now comes the real rub. Grandma says she has no desire to give up her citizenship. She has several daughters with children and would miss them dearly. Besides, she "doesn't like what she sees in America" ....."In my country", she says, "we don't fuss over IDs for everything. We don't have eagle and bear companies trying to sue you for anything. We can buy a beer at a resturant and go for a walk with it. I don't feel so free in America. There are safe places in America, but so many dangerous places too. I feel more comfortable in my beachside town of Cartagena."

For those of you who did not catch that. That is Cartagena Colombia. She feels more freedom in her little beach side city in Colombia, than in the hot desert of Phoenix Arizona. And it may just be the wave of the future, that is, Americans finding freedom OUT of the USA. Jesse Ventura is just one of millions who choose to live outside of the USA. In my world of high dollar commercial real estate, many multimillionares have given up their citizenship, staked their claim in the countries of Panama, and New Zealand.

The bottom line ECONOMICALLY is this. NAFTA came to Mexican subsidized farms, and blew the lid off of that system. Socialized farming, via oil profit transfers, made for small farms and many workers. Now that NAFTA opened the borders to trade, farming goods grew competitive, and millions of marginal farm laborers where no longer needed on the farms. American farms on the other hand, needed low cost farm workers. So since 1990, strong natural MARKET FORCES have driven low cost workers North and high cost production South. That was that "Woosh" sound that Ross Perot warned the country about when Bill Clinton and George Bush Sr promised to support the NAFTA tready.

I can agree with doctor Paul that we do not need to subsidize or welfarize the immigration problem. But Doctor Paul was never for having a Border Fence. He states that plainly in one of the debates last year, and distances himself from the likes of Tom Tancredo, who if anyone has a bad case of Anti-brown People phobia, its that man. What Dr. Paul does not want to see is the economic insentives to travel North change and suddenly become the Welfare insentives to Go North. I do think we as Americans all have the right to hire and fire who we want. I am not for unionizing the American workforce as defacto citizenship.

Further, I can agree with Lew Rockwell's speech that the USS of A is here and that the Conservatives are showing their true selves as facsit Statist Nazis who desire to keep "all the brown people out" as Jesse Ventura says. Rockwell is correct about Ron Paul. He managed to stay in the game by being a republican party member. But even better, Dr. Paul managed to be a true Statesman by ignoring BOTH the Socialist Left and the Facist Right. The call for walls at the border and sending "illegals back home" is a very facist call in my book. The whole tone to it feels very earie, like its 1933 and jewish coachroaches" are no longer wanted in "their country".....except its 2008, and brown people from south of the boarder are today's coachroaches. The irony of all ironies is that it was, i believe, the winning hand of multiculturalism that makes the issue in the first place.

I agree with this guy, Thomas Paine's opinions on Multiculturalism and how we need to champion assimilation, not multiple cultures.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...

I am very pleased with Jesse Ventura. It took balls, and boy he has them, to go into that arena and state his position on immigration. I dig that about the man and that says a whole hell of a lot about him. Further, I am sure Jesse is for some sort of background check "Blue Card" process at the border, for valid national security reasons, but other than that, we are all humans, we are all lovers of Liberty, (some more consistant than others), but we all seek freedom to better our lives and those that we love.

In Peace and Liberty,
Treg

My thoughts:

Building a border fence and dumping more money in border enforcement only patches the problem. Spending millions of dollars to deport illegal immigrants or prosecute them would also be a waste of money and not fix the problem.

You can crack down on employers, but what does that solve? It punishes employers for trying to work efficiently. It's just more telling private parties how to run their business. More red tape, waste of everyone's time.

Instead, we need to focus on demolishing the welfare state that creates incentives for illegal immigration. When you subsidize something, you get more of it.

We need to also stop blaming everything on illegal immigrants. We need to take some PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY in realizing that our birthrate has dropped almost below replacement level, and there is a huge economic void due to the fact that our government spends more money than it has and subsidizes business. Well, guess what, that void has to be filled.

In other words, it is an economic issue, not a racial or cultural one.

And that's what Jesse, I think, was getting at.

They didn't want Ron Paul to speak at the RNC because his message was not in lock-step with fascism.

I don't agree with jesse on this issue, but atleast he's talking about immigration, McFema won't bring it up at all.

Jesse is O.K., he's in the ballpark, but he's not in the game yet and that's O.K.

You know what... nevermind. not worth my time.

My father's ancestors came from Europe, without passports, and just walked right in after a quick health check. I'm sure many of your ancestors did as well.

Most of them "made it", some moved on.

The key here is:

No free education.
No free health care.
No free translation services.
No free employment agencies.
No birthright citizenship.

This alone would stop 80-90% of them coming in the first place AND you could scrap 90% of the Dept. of Immigration.

Staying and thriving would be the top-tier immigrants -- those with needed job skills, business skills, and/or wealthy and able to invest in the US. They would also probably be educated to at least a high school level and speak English. This would automatically make them far superior Americans than half the people in my home town.

___________

Lisa C.

If you love freedom, please consider joining: www.campaignforliberty.com

www.women4ronpaul.com -- provider of a new backup chat room for Daily Paulers in a "plan B" situation.

He doesn't have the full picture of "what's goin' on here".

He doesn't grasp "The New World Order Agenda", "The North American Union".

And, "illegal invaders" are told by their leaders, "that where Mexicans are, there is Mexico".

If Canadians were streaming in by the hundreds, thousands a day, we would have every right to be concerned that Our Sovereignty was under attack. It is an invasion!

http://www.americanpatrol...
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Update, yes there are more floatin' around, but for quick release, here is an example:

picture plus video link:

http://www.americanpatrol...
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Update 2:

THE GREAT NORTH AMERICAN PHONE-IN

By Tom DeWeese
September 4, 2008
NewsWithViews.com

"Those who are angry about the possible creation of a North American Union and are tired of being ignored by elected officials who deny the NAUs existence have an opportunity to deal with both."

http://www.newswithviews....