Any explanation why the MA & NV RP Delegates voted for McCain?

Were you guys who caved:

A. Pressured into caving and succumbed?

B. Duped into caving with GOP false promises?

C. McCain/neocon moles all along?

Drama queen.

If everything I did, in your eyes, is negated becaue I said go die, then you can go die yourself.

I was there. And it wasn't pretty - in fact, it was worse than it's been described in most places.

RedHats following us around. BlackHats demanding to search our bags and confiscating whatever they felt like. Everyone around us laughing and jeering at us. Ugly faces shoving themselves in our faces.

No, it wasn't pretty. But we knew it wouldn't be before we ever went in there. We ourselves described it in advance as "Christians in the Roman coliseum" and "Davey Crocket at the Alamo". We were going in to LOSE - but we were going to do it standing on PRINCIPLE in order to trailblaze for freedom-lovers who would come after us, and who could look to our example for inspiration and guidance as they fought the good fight.

I was only an alternate, but I did everything I could to make sure our delegates could stand by their principles to the fullest extent possible under the rules and state laws. For two days we tried to get Dr. Paul a speaking slot, under a "Fairness Campaign." Then we pushed for delegates to "Abstain from McCain" if they weren't able to change their pledged votes. And on the final night, we tried to get an actual roll call vote for VP instead of an acclamation, so that all of the RP supporters could at least cast their votes for him (there are NO bound votes for VP).

Even when I was given a delegate pass for 30 minutes to have the "experience" of being on the floor, I used my time to take petitions to small delegations like Guam and the Marianas Islands, to try to get that 5-delegation majority support and get RP's name in the nomination.

Like so many of the RP supporters that went to the RNC, I busted my butt to fulfill my duties and obligations to those who had busted their own butts to get me there, and who wanted to see SOMETHING registered for Dr. Paul there.

And then, we were betrayed.

I don't use that word lightly. I sent text messages and emails, talked to delegates individually, did everything I could to make sure our people didn't listen to the likes of Drew Ivers... and then heard about delegate after delegate voting for McCain, when they didn't have to.

I'm disgusted. Yes, we are all individuals, and as individuals have to make our own decisions. But then we have to face the consequences of those decisions. Those delegates who sold out can be commended for their courageous fight against the enemy in order to get there, just like Benedict Arnold. But like Benedict Arnold, they will be forever stained with their final actions, where they betrayed the trust of those who had sent them there to do a job.

Shame on them. I have burned so many political bridges in order to go up there and stand on principle - how dare they turn that into dung. And that's what they have done.

I've read all of the reasons, and all of the excuses. None of them rise to the level of acceptable. I was there. I know.

Now, let's get on with the Revolution, and take back our party. We will be doing so in my state. What about in your state?

OF DOING EVERYTHING THEY WANT IS WORKING!!!!

Get your kids in the military over in Iraq and Afghanistan -- let's get more senators that do everything McCain wants too!

If they come to your house for your guns, just hand them over -- it's all part of the strategy folks!

WE ARE WINNING -- VIVA THE REVOLUTION!!!!

How does voting for John McCain show them you can't be taken for granted? They got your vote - that's what they wanted! The GOP machine is snickering at your "strategy". They rolled you.

Those who disagree with what the delegates did, PLEASE tell me how abstaining would have helped the movement. Until you can answer this, stop pointing the finger.

I gave you my opinion about how what we did helps the movement. Now you tell me how what you would have done would have helped the movement.

It's scary that so many people still don't understand what we are doing. It's scary because this movement will go nowhere with this ignorance. This movement isn't about standing around protesting and saying no to McCain!!!! It's about action!!! It's about getting involved!!

who were there first hand. How did you miss them?

___________

Lisa C.

If you love freedom, please consider joining: www.campaignforliberty.com

www.women4ronpaul.com -- provider of a new backup chat room for Daily Paulers in a "plan B" situation.

I'm sick of you people judging. This is a long term mission. It's called strategy!!! Abstaining would have achieved nothing and would have made it harder for us to get involved in the party. It was a strategic move.

And for those of you who keep saying that we were elected to vote for Ron Paul or abstain, you are wrong. As a delegate, I was NOT elected by Ron Paul people, so if I use your logic, I HAD to vote McCain. But this is not the reason I did it. It's called strategy. Stop passing judgment and DO something for the movement. That's what we are doing. We have a plan for the future and it is much bigger than doing something as useless as abstaining.

I thought Ron Paul supporters were above peer pressure at this stage of the game. I mean think about all the crap the supporters had to go through being called loons or crazy or waste of a vote. We didnt care because we knew we were on the righteous side. The side that stood for liberty, freedom and personal responsibility

I ran for Maine GOP state and local office prior to Jan. 2004.
I voted for Michael Badnarik and Harry Browne, and worked for other libertarians in Maine and MA.

When I concluded that Dennis Kucinich represented me above all others in a major party, I switched party and became a national delegate pledged to Dennis, among 6 from Maine.

All 63 DNC delegates, pledged to Dennis, experienced everything that has been written in this thread and more. If I have taken one thing from the Boston DNC, it is "DON'T GIVE AN INCH". At rollcall, 42 of us voted for Dennis, even though he released all his delegates one week before.

I did not ask the others why they caved because it made no difference.
What matters in the end is leadership. I was outgunned in Boston, and you were outgunned in St. Paul. In early 2007, I change enrollment again on the day that I heard Ron Paul had thrown his own hat into the ring.

What happened in St. Paul at rollcall was entirely up to each delegate. Do not tell others that you were obligated or acted propitiously under the circumstances. If you caved, you caved; don't do it again.

Everybody, get it through your heads that rules are made to be broken by most, and enforced when it is convenient for the bigger guns. Use the rules when you can, but do not pussy out when one among you shows a little cajones and stops the meeting cold. Even at the risk of being ejected by the Sargeant, you must rally to the least among you. That is the definition of leadership. Leadership is nothing more than not being a pussy. Do not pussy out on your comrades.

The oligarchy makes it up as they go along. They are sociopaths whose lives depend upon rationalization and subjugation. You cannot deal with these people, much less influence their decissions. Take it from this old man; you cannot function by their rules. You must demand what you want, and do not ask for what you think they will give you. In the end, you won't get in anyway.

Finally, politics is not about standing in traffic circles while holding signs and shouting slogans. About 10,000 people took to the streets during convention week, more than 800 arrests including 19 journalist, and many injuries. What these people accomplished was a gift of about $10,000 or more to every cop that got assigned. Every demonstation organizer is a cop, and every cop is a criminal. Those people were mostly the age of most Ron Paul supporters, but just a little more stupid. They could have attended the Rally for the Republic with better results for liberty, and probably a little more respect for Ron Paul within the RNC.
Who among you reached out to those in the streets?

I used to be one of those hippie assholes. People my age talked to me just as I write to you, but I did not have the confidence to hear them.
This is what politics looks like. Most of you got taken aback when you discovered this. DDSOS. Welcome to my world. There is no whining in politics.

The reasoning I'm hearing most is that the delegates in MA gave up a few abstain votes in the convention in order to gain support at the state level. My question is, where is this support going? Is it really to the Liberty movement, or is it to those few delegates who made the deal?

If they want to be considered to have any principles at all, they should step down from leadership positions at the state level if any liberty-loving individual is vying for their spot, and then support the new people. The deal-makers should help raise money for these individuals in order to make up for the money raised for their delegate runs and travel to the convention, which they then turned into a McCain vote.

They want to make a deal to help our ideals - fine. But they have to prove that it isn't in their self-interest, prove that it is for the People. And they must make up to their supporters what they gave away.

I think the lesson to be learned from this is that next time we need to make sure we have a MAJORITY of delegates voting for liberty. This campaign was not won or lost on the floor of the GOP convention. IT was lost because we didn't get enough of our patriots to St. Paul. We need to redouble our efforts to win over the hearts and minds of real conservatives and libertarians across the country.

While I'm personally disappointed that Dr. Paul did not get more votes on the floor, I have to say that I don't completely understand the pressures that these delegates were under to vote for McCain. Perhaps they see it as a way to build political capital, an effort gain further influence in the next election. I'm disappointed for sure, but hopefully whatever sacrifice or deal they made will end up helping us WIN Massachusetts in the next cycle.

Everybody should also take a step back and look at the accomplishments of the Ron Paul Revolution. They are pretty staggering considering where we were a year and a half ago. Our team won control of the Idaho GOP...we would have won Nevada if not for political mischief...thousands of young people have been given a voice in the political process...our coalition is probably the most diverse of all the major candidates...Ron Paul set records for fund raising...and now the message of liberty has entered the mainstream. We did this all from scratch and through our own hard work and individual effort. (And of course with the help of a certain Congressman from Texas!)

Bottom line is we lost this election, but the CFL organization is now in place for us to be a bigger force in 2010. Let's focus all of this negative energy - this raw anger and emotion - towards winning next time.

Here's one good reason:
http://www.lawatchdog.com...
Hal Netkin

From what Dr. Paul said and from what the delegates said two things happened:

1) Absolutely no support from Dr. Paul's campaign (Drew Ivers liason to the Dr. Paul Campaign) or Dr. Paul to spearhead getting Dr. Paul on the ballot. This is getting to be a repeat record-Ron's Campaign doesn't swing for the fences they just bow their heads and keep on losing. Dr. Paul might have said if we can make it happen then he'd run for President, but his campaign backslapped supporters with no commitment.

2) Total political lockdown on the Paul delegates by the mainstream republicans. This is to be expected. It looks like there were a number of rules and laws broken by the RNC to promote Unity (like confiscating of materials). Again, to be expected.

New to politics I don't know whether the Campaign is just trying to not step on too many toes. It is easy to burn bridges in politics. Or maybe they're playing by a rule book we just don't know about.
Either way its a pretty sad state of affairs when delegates are fighting to get some type of dissent on the record and the campaign you believe in let's you down.

Couldn't they have convened a press conference to let people know about the injustice at the RNC this year?

refused to recognize Ron Paul? Remember NV state convention.

The RP delegates were sent to represent the RP people who worked so hard to get them there. They were sent to vote for RP. At least to abstain and not vote for McCain. Unless they were threatened with bodily harm, they had NO EXCUSE in not voting for RP.

They sold us out. They betrayed us. They had no authority to take it upon themselves to "give a little to gain a lot" or "start the healing process" or "extend the olive branch". Any deals with the GOP usually involve total capitulation. Does anyone really think the GOP will change or respect people who sell out?

The best that can be said about these delegates is that they are weak, gullible and not very smart. The truth about the delegates is probably much worse in many cases.

They need to admit they wronged us, quit whining, quit trying to justify themselves, and then leave our company.

Not sure if anyone posted this pertinent article http://www.lasvegassun.co... .

I found it disturbing that the article said 2 of the RP delegates were partying at a rage against the machine rock concert. I thought I read a thread on DP a few days ago about how someone else was bribed by the McCain people with concert tickets and expenses but didn't take the bait. Why did these delegates sell their souls? Why even go to the convention if not to make a statement against the corruption? This stinks.

I should have hit reply on his post directly but wasn't thinking. Thought about deleting this and moving it down but I saw another poster do this so...

What do you mean by saying some Ron Paul supporters were elected as delegates? Your not elected as a delegate unless it it for a certain person. Are you saying that Ron Paul supporters are elected as McCain Delegates or that they are unbound delegates, free to vote for the person they wish? If the former, then I agree with the vote, if the latter... They are sell outs. Pure and simple.

Let me tell a story, when Goldwater came to power, he attacted a groundswell of support. Later, that support went to Regan. He was close in rhetoric to Goldwater. So much so that even Ron Paul supported his canidacy. However, he showed himself in office to not be what he sold himself as to the people that put him in power.

This mattered not. The supporters of Goldwater looked in pride at their "acomplishment" and did not realise they had sold out (Ron Paul was a rare exception). They called themselves Goldwater/Regan conservatives. Oh sure, they reasoned, Regan was not as conservative as we expected/wanted but he WON. We voted for a WINNER.

With such platitudes they continued their voting. Hey, did you notice that a conservative that adopted liberal policys got elected? It seems voters want that. It's the only way we can stay in office this term, maybe next term they would be ready and we can be more ideologically pure then but that time is not now. So they vote for a slightly more liberal man. Even though he's more liberal, they can use him to somehow slip in conservative values. It's sure to work, right?

Except that never happened. We now come to McCain. He is the most liberal "conservative" we have nominated yet but still the platitudes remain. Just get our guy in office and we can use him to bring across more conservative values. Except you can't because the abandoning of said values is exactly why "conservatives" keeps winning. The nominees TALK about things changing. Such as Roe vs Wade being abandoned but they don't mean it. Talk is talk.

So here we are, all those conservatives that had so much hope for a brighter future of limited goverment have become the greatest enablers of liberalism. But WAIT! Remember Ron Paul? The guy who rejected what Regan became? What discipline! For decades he voted his beliefs and never gave an inch. He was punished for it. Mocked and ostracized but he never. Gave. An. Inch. We should support him.

So we did. New people come in, they work hard, they become delegates. See themselves as the new Goldwater conservatives (also known as Ron Paul Revolutionaries) because the old genration totally sold out. They sold out so hard they didn't remember what they used to be like. We would be different. We learned form the past. We knew that even one step to comprimising our values will lead us to become what we hate.

"I went out to change Washington but in the end Washington changed me."

How many times have we heard that? It's HARD to retain your morals. We all know how hard and we must know that there will be many that just can't cut it. They WILL play ball. They WILL make what seems a trivial compromise in order to "get a lot". So they can become part of the machine. I will change the machine, they say, except, not this term. So they get elected and two years pass. Time to really show what I am made of, right? Except... if I am too conservative then they will not reelect me. I'll give a little to get a lot. So a second term comes by and they get reelected. Is now the time? No... Not yet, I must support the new liberal Republican nominee for president. I must be less conservative to help get him elected so that we can influence him to be more conservative then he currently is. I'll bend a little more to "get a lot".

Eventually, the people that voted for McCain will become what they hate and they won't even know they have sold their souls by the time it's over. Once again Ron Paul shows the way. He could have gone to the convention if he had endorsed McCain but he didn't because he understands, like the sell-out delegates do not. No one would have forgiven him if he had. Why do some people seem to think that what is unaceptable for Ron Paul is somehow acceptable for a Ron Paul delegate? That the smaller players can trade their integrity in "small" ways to get, what they believe is, "a lot"? This will only cause you to eventually abandon everything you stood for and become exactly what you hate.

No one says it's easy. In fact, we all knew it WOULD be hard and WOULD be thanklesss and might not get anywhere for years or even decades. You could work 10 terms in obscurity even but at least you still have your soul. This is why those that voted for McCain get no sympathy, this is why they deserve none. There is no need to hate them, no need to yell but they are on the road to conformity and are of no real use to this movement anymore. They need to be kicked from their positions in this movement.

Comprimise is not an option, ever.