It's ironic how many people on this site have issues w/the truth movement when.....
Posted September 7th, 2008 by JBPT
output
RP himself doesn't believe we've been given the truth either!
And before anyone replies, "yes he does" remember he would support a new investigation and initiate one as president.
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You compare apples to oranges
Not believing the government story is one thing, but the "truthers" take it a step further and offer up just as absurd alternatives, which is what most people refuse to subscribe to, I being one of them. When the "truthers" can get away from holograms and tomahawk missile theories, and put together an undeniable coherent rendition instead of offering hypotheticals and anecdotes based on very loose or non-existent correlations, then I'll jump on the band wagon.
With the exception of a few ...
noone has "issues" with the truth movement. It is the "inside job" movement and their lack of ability to call speculation what it is, speculation.
Post as you please, but you will judged based on your posts. Make no mistake about it.
WAHOR!!
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not ironic
human nature...as a rough analogy, imagine if in a time of fear and apocalyptic expectation a guy walked around speaking in defiance of the most holy worldly authorities' stories and wound up publicly humiliated and ridiculed on a cross, how many purported Christians of today, transported back in time, would have the courage to accept or even entertain his "truth"? 300 million population today in America...12 sounds about right.
Expecting humans to act otherwise is naive and arguing about it even 7 years later is not very productive. Perhaps it takes time for such uncomfortable "truth" to be broadly conceivable, if at all. One hundred years, considering human history, would be a short time span to open up the public mind to really considering the "mysteries" of 9/11. Those investigating it should view their work as being for posterity and only look there for much acceptance. Let them keep working diligently with integrity and they will have their due reward.
Think in terms of a Cost-Benefit Analysis
Why should we mention 9-11 at all knowing how divisive of an issue it is, when we can stick to the idea of freedom which brings us all together?
Should we be focusing on what brings us all together, or should we bring up the issue of freedom MIXED together with an extremely divisive issue?
I choice is obvious.
That's not irony
It's ironic how few people truly understand what an irony is.
As I have stated, I do not
As I have stated, I do not consider myself a "truther" even though I have thousands of questions regarding 9/11. I do however, wish to state that regarding the very nature of Bush, Cheney and the rest of the Neo-Cons, I would not put anything past them, including High Treason! They are corrupt to the core, they are liars with reprobate minds capable of any crime to gain or retain power. The entire episode should be opened for a fine-tooth investigation, from the top to the bottom, from the failure of the SOPs to the the financial/political dealings of everyone remotely involved with the decisions made on that fateful day.
“Men do not willingly read unpalatable truths of themselves. The people like those best who fool them most by pandering to their vices and flattering their foibles”—Admiral Raphael Semmes.
Its not Ironic
What's Ironic is that you call it the 911 truth movement at all, since you are lying about what the "truth" movement really is.
The truth movement is not the idea that "the 911 commision did a bad job, or that the government was inept on 911".
The truth movement should be called the "911 is an Inside Job" movement. Now there isn't even a shred of evidence to suggest this. Its the Buildings were demolished, no plane hit the pentagon, flight 93 was shot down crowd that I resent. It is you folks that make the CFL look like a bunch of kooks, you are the achilles Heel of the movement. All the MSM has to do is get you yelling about 911, and any politician trying to run under the ideas of CFL looses credibility.
is that all you got?
scare tactics?
"The truth movement is not the idea that "the 911 commision did a bad job, or that the government was inept on 911"...
...yes, the truth movement IS this also and I would find it extremely odd that, even without the 911 issue, you could not somehow find fault in the revolution...fuuny weird how you managed to include the words kooks, achilles heel, and loss of credibility (many of the same things the msm used to portray us) in your analysis...perhaps you've forgotten that we don't give a rat's ass what the msm spreads in their disinfo propaganda because we know it, and you, are full of lies...
lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way because the truth is coming no matter how much you ignore or deny it!
O Captain, My Captain, rise up and hear the bells!
If the leadership of the
If the leadership of the Campaign for Liberty was worried about truthers, they wouldn't have invited Jesse Ventura to speak, and Ron wouldn't continue to appear on Alex Jones' show. This is self-evident.
To suggest otherwise is to spin and twist the issue.
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Supposedly Ron told or asked
Supposedly Ron told or asked Jesse V. to cool down the rhetoric.
C4L is corrupt!
It has been organized by a man named Ron Paul who has stated on many occasions that he does not believe that the government sponsored 9/11. This crazy old doctor went so far as to call the 9/11 Truth movement "preposterous."
Anyone who really cares about revealing 9/11 Truth should be aware that Ron Paul is a troll of the highest order. He does not support this valiant cause. Do not fall for his insane ramblings denying 9/11 Truth.
So... is this your final
So... is this your final answer? Thanks for playing, now go away.
Spot on
I speak from personal experience.
When I was asked by the Campaign for Liberty state coordinator for my state to become a congressional district coordinator for the Campaign for Liberty and to attend the Leadership Summit, I specifically and pointedly addressed the fact that I am a 9/11 Truth activist and that I would publicly continue this activism into the foreseeable future. I was told that this isn't a problem and I was invited on these terms.
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Ron Paul's Campaign for Liberty!
"We really do have...a once in a lifetime opportunity to take the Republican Party back to where it was." -Kent Snyder, 1959-2008
There you go.
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"Just like Alex Jones will do; he'll try to put words in my mouth... You try to put words in my mouth too, just like Alex Jones does." - Ron Paul http://www.youtube.com/wa...
Oh, I See
You're just a concerned observer trying to "help out" the Ron Paul campaign.
Right.
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Nope, I'm trying to help myself
And the success of the CFL movement will be really good for me, my family and decendants.
I wasn't responding to
I wasn't responding to you.
I do agree with that statement of yours.
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Can anyone verify
The quote of Rn Paul that RonBarr uses below? I can't Picture RP speaking that way.
Yes
It's from a radio interview with John Gibson on Fox Radio, September 13, 2007. http://www.youtube.com/wa...
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"Just like Alex Jones will do; he'll try to put words in my mouth...You try to put words in my mouth too, just like Alex Jones does." - Ron Paul
Do You Support Ron Paul's Call For A New Investigation?
I realize you're not a Ron Paul supporter, but since you spend so much time on this forum, I think you should tell us if you do.
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I supports an investigation to
to find out who was inept at figuring out that the terrorists were coming. That's the investigation Dr. Paul supports.
Someone saying that is the not same thing as them saying they support an investigation to find a government conspiracy to kill thousands of innocent Americans. So don't include Dr. Paul and me with the Truthers.
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"Just like Alex Jones will do; he'll try to put words in my mouth... You try to put words in my mouth too, just like Alex Jones does." - Ron Paul http://www.youtube.com/wa...
You Can't Pre-Determine What An Investigation Will Find
It will lead where it leads, why not just leave it at that?
You have nothing to do with Dr. Paul. Why do you pretend you do?
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Because Dr. Paul and me want to dissociate ourselves
from your view. We want to make it clear that we support an investigation to find ineptness, not a conspiracy. This makes us NOT Truthers.
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"Just like Alex Jones will do; he'll try to put words in my mouth... You try to put words in my mouth too, just like Alex Jones does." - Ron Paul http://www.youtube.com/wa...
If you wish to be a
If you wish to be a spokesperson for the movement, this board is not the place to do it.
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Lol, He Worries About A Candidate And An Issue He Doesn't Suppor
How transparent can this guy be?
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You Don't Know What My View Is, Apparently
I, like Ron Paul, demand a new investigation. And, unlike you and the rest of the neocons, I'm not frightened of where it will lead. Not a conspiracy? You cannot say logically that you don't support an investigation to find a "conspiracy" (apparently, your favorite word), if the investigation is to be truly open. You don't know what an investigation will find, unless it's rigged.
Are those conspiracists still out to get you?
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I say the same thing Dr. Paul says,
when he's asked if he supports more investigation. He always makes it explicit that he's supporting looking into who dropped the ball in figuring out that the terrorists were coming, and makes it clear that he's not looking for a conspiracy. I don't think that makes either of us "afraid" of what the investigation may find, no matter what it is.
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"Just like Alex Jones will do; he'll try to put words in my mouth... You try to put words in my mouth too, just like Alex Jones does." - Ron Paul http://www.youtube.com/wa...
No, That's Not What He Says
He says he wants a new investigation, and does not say the results should be pre-determined. Why do you pretend he does?
Man, you love that "conspiracy" term. Did you just discover it?
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Hip-Hip-Hooray!
Sorry to say that you are another one of the folks here with poor attention skills.
Here's the erroneously-named "Truther" modus operandi:
1. Spout unsupportable wild theories, post hundreds of links to paranoia sites and radio talk show host sites (not for a second realizing they are just opinion and devoid of solid facts)
2. Argue for months on end (with a religiously zealotry usually seen in radical Islamists and Sarah Palin supporters) about the minutia of what Dr. Paul said about 9/11, despite incontrovertible evidence of his actual opinion... in numerous interviews
3. Continue to argue over the finer points of "falling at the rate of gravity", "fuel burning metal", "demolition" and other uneducated points of view
4. Curse the lot of us, including Ron Paul and slinking off under a rock
Listen to what he says.
He says he supports an investigation to find ineptness. http://www.youtube.com/wa...
He always makes this clear when he's asked about supporting an investigation, so that he's not associated with the Truthers.
Also here, he explains that his position is that 9/11 was NOT an inside job:
Mike Gallagher: "Is it fair to say that you believe that there was some kind of either government conpiracy or coverup involving September 11th, 2001?"
Ron Paul: "No, not really. I never bring that up. Some people try to twist what I say and turn it into that. And I think some of my supporters lean in that direction, but that's not my position. I do think government's basically inept. I mean we were spending $40 billion a year collecting intelligence, and a lot of information was out there. We had one FBI agent, I think sent dozens and dozens of memos to his superiors saying that there are people trying to fly airplanes but not land them. And, nobody would pay any attention, so I don't think that's a conspiracy; I think that's a lot of bureaucracy that doesn't work very well. And then when we have government investigations, whether it's 9/11 or assassinations, I think the main goal is to protect the government and to protect their ineptness. And that is a lot different than saying 'Oh they conspired to do this because they can use this as an excuse to spread the war in the Middle East whether they had anything to do with 9/11 or not.' I don't see it that way, but I believe some who did want to spread the war would use it as an opportunity. But, it wasn't something that was deliberately done."
http://ronpaulaudio.com/r...
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"Just like Alex Jones will do; he'll try to put words in my mouth... You try to put words in my mouth too, just like Alex Jones does." - Ron Paul http://www.youtube.com/wa...
How does that not make you a
How does that not make you a 9-11 truther?
I don't claim to "know" that a government conspiracy killed thousands of innocent Americans, either.
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..And Ron Paul has appeared
..And Ron Paul has appeared on Jones' show numerous times since the quote was made, and gets along with him just fine.
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So?
He lets anyone interview him that wants to.
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"Just like Alex Jones will do; he'll try to put words in my mouth... You try to put words in my mouth too, just like Alex Jones does." - Ron Paul http://www.youtube.com/wa...
It makes your quote
It makes your quote pointless and outdated.
I also heard Ron Paul on Jones' show, not more than a few weeks ago, saying he thought the omission of WTC-7 from the 9-11 Report was "highly suspicious".
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So in your mind
you take the term "highly suspicious" that means suspicious that the government bombed the building. You don't have any evidence that that's what he means.
I have evidence of him saying the government did NOT take down WTC 7. Whether the quotes are old or new, he says the same thing. Government did not plan or take part in 9/11.
Glen Beck: "Is there any evidence or is there any doubt in your mind that the United States government was not involved in the September 11th attacks - that we did not bring down World Trade Center number seven?"
Paul: "...I absolutely believe that is true - they did not. But, the connection may be -and where some people get carried away - is if you dig through those $40 billion dollars worth of intelligence gathering apparatus that we had before 9/11, you know we dig up information and there was some ineptness, and sometimes when you find ineptness in government it's easy to make this giant leap over into conspiracy and [that] they do it on purpose, But, you know, we had an FBI agent like on seventy different occasions reported that these individuals were flying airplanes and not learning how to land them and then he was totally ignored. I consider this ineptness on government, not a conspiracy that 'Oh yeah! We know about it. We can't wait until the towers come down!' No, I don't believe that at all. I think it - I don't think I should even have to answer questions like that [laugh]."
http://youtube.com/watch?...
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"Just like Alex Jones will do; he'll try to put words in my mouth... You try to put words in my mouth too, just like Alex Jones does." - Ron Paul http://www.youtube.com/wa...
No, you are now a lying
No, you are now a lying hypocrite. You complain about people putting words in Ron Paul's mouth and you just stuffed a bushel of them in mine.
There's not a single thing I have said that identifies the government as the culprit in the demolition of WTC-7. I am saying that the government is COVERING IT UP.
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The government is covering what up?
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"Just like Alex Jones will do; he'll try to put words in my mouth... You try to put words in my mouth too, just like Alex Jones does." - Ron Paul http://www.youtube.com/wa...
The facts.
The forensics of three buildings collapsing into dust spontaneously.
Where is your evidence
that they're covering something up in regard to this?
Let's assume you know for fact that that the buildings were laced with explosive and demolished. Now when a government study says this was not the case, how would that prove that they're covering it up? Why can't they simply be wrong? You Truthers jump to conclusions on so many things, and that's why you're Truthers in the first place. Your thoughts are not connecting in a coherent fashion.
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"Just like Alex Jones will do; he'll try to put words in my mouth... You try to put words in my mouth too, just like Alex Jones does." - Ron Paul http://www.youtube.com/wa...
Well, considering this is the Daily PAUL
and Dr. Paul's position is the 9/11 was blowback by terrorists upset about our military base in Saudi Arabia and other Middle East interventions, and his position on this is what first made him famous in the debates, it makes sense that Paul supporters would have issues with Truthers saying Dr. Paul is wrong about what is such a significant issue of his campaign.
It's more ironic that the Truthers want to associate themselves with Dr. Paul's views while at the same time disagreeing with him on the basic issue that concerns them as Truthers.
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"Just like Alex Jones will do; he'll try to put words in my mouth. You try to put words in my mouth too, just like Alex Jones does." - Ron Paul
I welcome the 9/11 Truthers...but we must time our issues
if we want certain people to get political power.
It's as simple as that.
I'm sure the truthers can understand that.
In fact, in the whole R4R, they seemed to only chant once.
So. Am I missing something? They don't seem to dominate the RP movement in any way shape or form. Please don't tell me RP'ers are using the truthers as scape goats.
The enemy isn't the biggest challenge of the Revolution...how we treat each other is.
divide and conquer--pls transcend this problem
my comment on Reel American's Thread of sarcasm-and giving up
http://www.dailypaul.com/...
[cool! i like it
On September 6th, 2008 jc-philippines says:
after reading your post, i smiled at how people react--some without reading everything, some without waiting for your explanation, some who are honest and principled enough to disagree with you in a reasonable manner.]
i respect everyone here. but you should also respect those who are and will never be at your level. there are those who cant handle more depth of truth. but that is the essence of a group of people called citizens. each fights to their own understanding of the situation--no one is less of a citizen/true nationalist than the other.
the essence of the dissimilarity of the diverse. what is new i think for the psychologically divided people bombarded with hate/division laden crap of the old manipulated corporate media, is the concept of unity on certain issues,and disagreement in others, but UNDER A COMMON CAUSE.
this is actually a blessing,because this movement forces people of divergent backgrounds, beliefs and values to be on the same train,the same bed--and this is bitter medicine because of the social darwinism religion imposed by the elite to let you police yourselves--from the mantra of "every man for himself" to the stigmatization of groups and "guilt by association" psychology of policing yourselves apparatus.
there is no truther, there is no denier, there is no weekend warrior amongst you all. even the most jaded is still your brother/sister. he/she just hadn't had been reached intellectually or emotionally stirred yet. it will come---AND YOU WILL ALL REALIZE HOW ALL OF YOU ARE THE SAME-ONE PEOPLE, fighting your oppressors.
pls welcome each and everyone, including the whiners. you are now united in one cause-liberty. may you all succeed, coz, if you don't-all of us, even outside america, are doomed. you guys are in a unique position of being really able to do something with an effect--us outside had been fighting this imperialism a long time, with no significant effect
someone placed a thread--has DP no concept of the power he wields now? i say---have you guys, united now, have any idea of the power you now wield? a united people--the status quo would try to so hard to break this up now
Bravo!
Thank you very much!
I've wondered the same about non-christians
Fact: The government destroys truth.
Fact: The gov't wants God out of education and our country.
Hypothesis: God is truth
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For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people.
- John F. Kennedy
God
Church and state should be separate. It is the reason we do not have state sponsored religion. The government does not mandate that you attend church nor does it pay for churches. But not believing in God or any other creator in no way negates the lessons imparted in the Ten Commandments or the obligation of the people to be moral. If you follow the those ten simple laws or lessons your gonna do alright in life.
Do you mind if I make a distinction?
The Constitution says "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"
While many interpret the 14th amendment as an extension of this prohibition of establishment of religion to the states, a careful reading of the text shows this is by no means clear.
"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."
It would appear that this refers to the requirement that laws abridging life, liberty , and property cannot be enforced against US citizens. As we know, protection of these is almost non-existent in modern America. If millions of babies aborted each year and removal of nutrition and hydration for the disabled doesn't constitute an abridgment of the right to life, then nothing else qualifies. With regards to liberty, the Patriot Act says it all. We are all subject , under this unconstitutional law, to loss of our most basic rights without due process. And of course, the Supreme Court has upheld the rights of states, in spite of very plain constitutional language, to seize our property at will under eminent domain.
I do not endorse the establishment of state religions, but, as a freedom advocate, I recognize that these would be far less oppressive than the current prohibition taking place by the federal gov't of practicing Christianity, and this is truly and blatantly indefensible Constitutionally. As a matter of law, I would not agree that STATE sponsored religion is prohibited.
are you saying
that you feel oppressed by being prohibited by the government from practicing Christianity and that the institution of a state mandated Christianity would be far less oppressive?...speaking from the "freedom" perspective...and without endorsing it, of course.
While fighting, in the name of freedom, the religious zealots in the oil laden sands of the world (aka, violent fighters for the wrong religion or their own state mandated religion {which makes them evil/unfree of course, as opposed to the enhanced "freedom" state mandated religion would give us (?)}). I must be misreading something here, Im not that bright...perhaps the abortions of other people "oppresses" your ability to be Christian somehow? Maybe if they were forced...I dunno. I may be reading something into your comments...if so, lay some Christian forgiveness on me, please.
You may be right, say it isnt explicitly prohibited...Id suggest that state mandated religion is a rather muddled and contradictory idea for a "free" diverse nation of laws. And maybe they used tip toe political language about religion even back in the day. If you consider how religiously homogeneous the nation was in those days (divergent sects of Christianity aside), the implicit intent may be clearer. I dunno.
Just imagine the furor if a party suggested a state religion!! Now that would be interesting stuff. Peace.
I want a
I want a government-sponsored God out of our education and political system. You remain free to believe or practice whatever you want in your own religion. You do understand why it is so important to not mix these things? The US would be no better than Iran with it's religious leaders calling the shots.
what you are not
what you are not understanding is the morality of the constitution/government comes from Gods laws! yes the government can not force a person to worship a certain god, or pick a religion/church that everyone should be invovled with. but the basis of our laws Come from God! what is right and what is wrong and how people should treat one another.. If a child wants to pray in school that child should be able to do so! just like the child who does not want to should be able to do so(not pray).
Would you not rather...
...have government-sponsored education out of your system? I fear more the mix of politics and education.