Re: 9/11, what is truth?
Submitted by Sancho23 on Thu, 09/11/2008 - 12:56
Many people in the "9-11" movement have usurped the word Truth as if they are the only ones who know what Truth is. . .and that seems brash at the very least. Truth is often times subjective, and as the quantum physicist Niels Bohr has been quoted as saying:
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth. "
The unfortunate aspect of the "9/11 truth" movement, is that they offer many facts, but very little in the way of profound truths. Instead of enlarging the perspectives of those who care to listen and/or learn, they provide people only with half-answers, misleading statements, adversarial stances, and among all of that, irrefutable facts. There is nothing paradigm shifting about the "truth" movement except that it wills you to believe that behind the curtains of government, there lurk dangerous criminals hell-bent on pushing their agenda onto the populace with fierce disdain for "normal" citizen's lives- something every American knows intuitively and for the most part cares not to know in detail as the facts are sickening!
Instead of calling for peace, the "truth" movement calls for war. A war against the secret, oppressive government and their soulless actions against the people. Instead of taking the actions of 9/11 and using that as a catalyst to further introduce new and positive changes into our world, it is used as a tool to sell dvd's, books, and enhance the inflated egos of would-be revolutionaries and those without a home culturally. Revolution is nothing new, and it always ends in the same manner: nothing changes except the face of the rulers!
No, instead of honoring the memory of the lives lost on 9/11 by pushing a new, evolutionary peace agenda, the tragedy of death is used to create a subculture that is borne on fear, paranoia, speculation, guerrilla marketing, conclusion jumping, and most of all a general in-your-face attitude towards spreading "truth" that turns so many people off that the whole movement is a sideline joke in mainstream America. Sure, there are many credible people talking about this event who aren't among the "crazies" or the social misfits who awkwardly repeat the mantras of the movement. But, because so many in the "truth" movement take hard line approaches to spreading "truth", and also seem to have no notion of how to persuade the public opinion(as evidenced by Alex Jones' infamous, ineffectual tactic of bull-horning, and the weak attempt to spread "truth" on the Bill Maher show), the whole notion that there is some truth in the "truth movement" is watered down and not taken in any intellectual capacity by the public at large.
It's unfortunate that such a monumental event in the history of our country has become a tool for angry citizens who are disgusted with government to spread cultural memes that seriously skew the critical discussion of this extraordinary event. While the truth of the whole situation is still not clear, as there is little in the way of consistent evidence to back many of the conspiracy theory claims, the whole use of the word truth has been muddied by third-rate thinkers with a bone to pick and just enough fueled anger to get out and scream to the mountains that something isn't right in Washington. . .a fact that everyone knows, and most are too afraid to look into.
If the "truth" movement wants to have any kind of effect on these citizens, they would do well to drop the truth banner and take up the banner of community, enhance the experience and understanding of those around you and instead of thinking you know what happened, explore possibilities with your neighbors in a light of honest inquiry and critical thought. Engage in meaningful conversations about what it really means if our government, or some elements within it(Cheney?), at the very least let 9/11 happen. Drop the speculation and explore the facts, and perhaps, maybe, just maybe, in all of our inquiry, some profound truths about human nature and the evolution of a society may creep into the cultural dialogue. Instead of a movement of fear, a general understanding of responsibility will replace the reliance on governmental discretion and indiscretions. Perhaps what we need as a culture is not to look the boogeyman straight in the face but rather, to learn how to live outside of the realm of the boogeyman altogether!
In the spirit of not believing anything to be truth, but to keep an open mind, I direct you to an installment of the C-Realm Podcast w/KMO dealing with the very subject of 9/11 and asking the question: Who Benefits?
KMO's Podcast
Everyone do check out the podcast I've linked to as it contains a wealth of great perspectives and information regarding 9/11 and KMO just puts on a great, and very professional, show!!!
He does a great job on not injecting his own beliefs into the show, for the most part, and he treats the subject of 9/11 very cautiously and open-mindedly!!!
His other episodes, especially on peak oil and our financial crises, are worth a long listen to!!!
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
I had taken the word truth
I had taken the word truth in the 9/11 Truth movement to mean that they want the Truth from the Corp. Government, not that they have or know the Truth.
I think that is what it
I think that is what it originally implies although judging by the MO of many Truthers it is apparent that they seem to think they hold rights to what is truth and what is not. It has become a belief system(BS) and just like any belief system it has it's own version of truth.
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
I need your support to help make 911 a new forum topic.
I am requesting that all future 911 posts be placed on a new and separate 911 forum. This new forum will be for people who have investigated 911 and yet still have unanswered questions. The purpose of the 911 forum will not be to convince readers of any unofficial ‘truths’ but rather to systematically identify specific events which occurred before, during, and after September 11, 2001. After detailing the happenings of an event, the initiating poster should come up with a list of accountable persons involved with that event. Others having more information can add to the original post, thus helping to build a solid case. Note: All information submitted for each single event, must be documented and verifiable. This will ensure a quality, certified foundation for (1) a future Congressional investigation on accountability involving many, if not all, events of 911 and/or (2) Grand Jury Formation. It is time to move forward with the preponderance of evidence gathered since 911, either overlooked, ignored, or misinterpreted by the 911 commission, and present these findings to seek accountability/indictments for those involved. See my original post: Michael: A special request for a new forum topic...
Love (consciousness) is in everything including the void.
"Be wary of those who know the truth. Align yourself with those who are questing for the truth." L. Gardner
Not a bad idea, try sending
Not a bad idea, try sending an email straight to the source!
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
The Jersey Girls deserve better than you give them
These brave women have been the very model of civility in the face of the worst government corruption imaginable.
Do you have any idea how many times I have tried to get people to engage in a dialogue to be called "a crazy conspiracy theorist?"
Do you have any idea what it feels like to look at a soldier who just got back from Iraq, and see him stand in front of a line of riot-gear clad policeman and hear him scream "9-11 was in inside job!"?
Do you deny people in anquish their right to cry out?
You are no Patriot, it is our right to speak, to demand answers, to be dead wrong if that be the case but to have it PROVEN to us.
I didn't mean this in anyway
I didn't mean this in anyway to tell anyone to shut up and not speak out. Rather, I question the tactics and tenacity of some of the "truthers" as well as the usurpation of the word "truth" for use as a socio-political movement.
I do not look down at what the Jersey Girls are doing, in fact, had I lost a loved one in 9/11 and a full investigation had not begun immediately to determine who did this(which is what happened, took how long to finally get an investigation?), I would be yelling and screaming, too. But that doesn't speak for everyone else who hasn't lost a family member or friend, and also there is a time and place for certain tactics in order to produce effect.
I question the delivery of the message that so many "truthers" adhere to which includes berating people who oppose their views, handing out dvd's, bull-horning, and all around being confrontational in their approach to disseminating the information. Before I get yelled at for menitoning the dvd letting, chill out, I've done it myself! I'm again going to point out that there are a time and place for certain tactics, but there are oh so many others that are not being explored by this movement, and so it becomes a one trick pony. We can rely on "9/11 Truthers" to stage protests and be loud, and have wild theories, but what if people could say that it was this same movement that was creating public dialogue on a local level that supported the discussion not only of such things as 9/11 but all other issues that face us today? That is where things such as communicating with your community comes into play, which I mentioned towards the end of the article.
And also, just because someone was a soldier who fought in the war was shouting for "9/11 Truth!" does not mean that they were effective in creating change.
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
Perhaps you do not realize we truthers have day jobs
where we do exactly what you describe. As I stated, there is specific value in the techniques you deride. They are certainly not the ONLY technique that ought to be employed, but they are the types of things that get the TV camera to point your way. Remember how hard it is to get the media to tell your story? Have you been with this movement long enough to understand that problem?
It also DOES have effect. There is truly a hypnosis at play here. The "depth" of the trance varies with the environment of the individual. If they are shocked by what they see or hear, it registers more heavily in their brain. They may write the person off as a lunatic, but the seed is there. Now the next person does not have to scream so loudly, the "lunatic" got the person curious.
I will agree 110% that the lunatic needs a calm, articulate "wing man." But there IS value in taking to the street and screaming shocking things at people, very real value.
Yeah but there is much more
Yeah but there is much more value in creating local dialogue and open discourse on the local level. Shouting at people works only so far, and usually only attracts certain types of person. It's laughable to think even what presence "9/11 truth" has had on television has had much effect on the public opinion. I think much more has been done by personal interactions on the street level, and yes, largely through the tactics at question. The problem is the zealous nature of these tactics and the idea that they worked well in some situations but since they continue as the most used way of communicating the message, there is no question that it has hurt the movement.
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
Proof of what really happened on 9/11!
http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&...
IS THIS GUY A SPAMBOT OR
IS THIS GUY A SPAMBOT OR WHAT!?!?!?
That link leads to porn pics. . .not anything else relevant there. I guess spambots are getting smart as they can give "real" sounding answers as below?
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
sorry, just stacey dash pics
i was just trying to add some levity to this endless ridicous argument
so be warned, the link leads to google image listing of stacey dash
sorry man, I thought you
sorry man, I thought you were a spambot or something, it tripped me out!
yeah, levity is something we need and I apologize for not putting anything but maybe a little overdry dark humour into my post!
maybe next time, instead of naked pics, maybe just a dick joke will suffice. . .? ;-D
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
I believe it
Ron Paul is the great uniter, the income tax fighter...the military-supported, defender of the border...the political apathy solution and the champion of the Constitution! Doctor Paul is on-call!
How well did negotiation work with Genghis Khan?
The truth is this. There are a significant number of facts that suggest the government story may not be accurate. The government has worked diligently to stone wall a comprehensive investigation and has acted as an obstacle to the examination of the available forensic evidence; up to and including destruction of the evidence. How can we know the truth if the facts are denied and the evidence is destroyed?
???
???
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
I think much of the problem is in the "approach"
A couple of days ago I wrote a forum topic on suggestions for the 911 issue on this site ( http://www.dailypaul.com/node/61067 ).
Part of that involved the "in your face" approach used by "Truthers" and how I feel that it actually damages the movement. I believe that the truth of 911 will come out, and is coming out over time. But I do cringe at the "jump up and down and scream in their face" approach that so many seem to find useful. Perhaps it is just not my style, (or my age?) but I think that calm, and steady exposure of the facts is the better way to go. You cannot FORCE people into knowledge. (Much as I love the information I gain from going to the Alex Jones site, for example, I really cannot take his "style" and avoid his videos for this reason).
Also, as you and others point out MUCH can and should be accomplished and changed in our foreign policy that would help to restore sanity and improve our image in the world, even without believing the "truth" of 911. Dr. Paul's approach is also productive in getting things changed for the better.
... ... ... ... ... ...
"Not armies, not nations, have advanced the race; but here and there, in the course of ages, an individual has stood up and cast his shadow over the world."
Viva La Revolucion!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bk-4Vdp9_x0&feature=related
"Also, as you and others
"Also, as you and others point out MUCH can and should be accomplished and changed in our foreign policy that would help to restore sanity and improve our image in the world, even without believing
the "truth" of 911. Dr. Paul's approach is also productive in getting things changed for the better."
Even more so than foreign policy, public discourse is the x-factor that can really change our direction and our worldview, and how the world views us!
Look into Citizen's Deliberative Councils and Wisdom Councils.
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
Fire
It's fair to question the intensity on that day. Smoldering fire is not a good, solid, well lit fire, check your fireplace or even a outside fire when the smoke looks like this:
Meet Edna Cintron
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvYqRTPtrNc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZAA_iNbJAM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LDab7f_8NE&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWTQl42HPKw&feature=related
... ... ...
Someone did this!
Who did it?
Who, what, when, where and why!
... ...
Who?:
Who doesn't like us?
Who has the capabilities? resources?
Who has the motive?
...
Russia?
Note1: Russia still knows who we are!
...
China?
Note1: China knows who we are!
...
Israel? Israelis?
Note 1: Odd question. Allies of some sort, are they not?
Note 1a: But they have been spying on us, odd for an ally huh!
"The Israeli Spy Ring
ALL LINKS TO CARL CAMERON'S FOX NEWS STORY ON THE ISRAELI SPY RING HAVE BEEN REMOVED AT THE EXPRESS REQUEST OF FOX NEWS."
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/spyring.html
...
England?
...
Ahab the Arab? I'll consider it.
Arabia? Iran? Iraq? Egypt? Libya? Kuwait? Palestine? Jordan? Syria?
Note: Muslims have a funny personality, they generally, if not always, admit to their involvement in catastrophes they cause. Go figure.
Note 2: What are their resources? What are their capabilities?
Note 2a: They have less resources and capabilities than "anyone" else?
Note 2b: Weak people have weak ways.
Note 2c: They don't "just" live in caves but generally considered to be 'po (poor) 'n a wee bit above.
Note 3?: Motive(s)? Save for later.
...
THIS TIME, "CRYIN' WOLF" HAS CAUGHT UP TO 'EM!
..
Just playin', carry on..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GRR_n_yQGA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWLw7nozO_U&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZUfsmwaNoA&feature=related
Personally
I do not know the truth on this subject and would only speculate.
I do know that we need to seek the truth.
I also know the "official" story is a farce.
_________________________________
My liberty-minded home base of thought:
www.ponderthis.net
_________________________________
Freedom - Peace - Prosperity
Your actions determine your character.
www.ponderthis.net
This is more than the
This is more than the average citizen can say, and at least this shows that you are critically thinking about the subject, not jumping right into the Belief pool. . .
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
Here is the TRUTH
"I believe very sincerely that the CIA is correct when they teach and talk about blowback. When we went into Iran in 1953 and installed the shah, yes, there was blowback. A reaction to that was the taking of our hostages and that persists. And if we ignore that, we ignore that at our own risk. If we think that we can do what we want around the world and not incite hatred, then we have a problem. They don't come here to attack us because we're rich and we're free. They come and they attack us because we're over there. I mean, what would we think if we were –if other foreign countries were doing that to us?"
Ron Paul
A must read:
http://mises.org/story/2588
Ron Paul 2012 for Peace
Baldwin: What Really Happened on 9/11
What Really Happened on 9/11?
Only One Presidential Candidate Asks...
Constitution Party presidential candidate Chuck Baldwin is the only candidate from a FEC- recognized party to challenge the official story of the tragedy of 9-11.
Representing the largest and fastest-growing third party based on voter registration (Ballot Access news), Baldwin joins the growing list of military, scientific and other well-credentialed experts who agree,'the government's account of what happened that day simply does not pass the smell test'.
Baldwin, poised to attract voters who will not cast their votes for either 'Big Box' party candidate in November said, 'All across America voters are telling me, ''I am afraid of Obama and I don't trust McCain'.
Baldwin added, 'More and more people want answers . They want to know about government corruption, our loss of liberties and yes, what really happened on September 11th. The heartache this country endured won't be cured, but it will give us answers to some basic questions about why our security, intelligence and civil defense measures failed and why so many aspects of the government's version have been shown to be lies'.
If you wont fight for the right when you can easily win...you may...have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival [or] when there is no chance of victory...it's better to perish than to live as slaves.
W.Churchill
what a collosal crock of shit
if you want to see what a philosophical knot looks like, then this is it. full of fallacious reasoning and justifications.
in case you didn't read it, there is the cliff notes version:
paragraph 1: what is truth, anyway? we can never know.
paragraph 2: counter culture of loons is only dishonoring the dead.
paragraph 3: sleazy truthers really just hate the government
paragraph 4: movement of fear
just look at the evidence you sheep.
don't listen to what i have to say, or what this idiot has to say. listen to what the people who were actually inside the buildings are saying:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7471885217846396761...
or
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4380137365762802294&...
You attacks don't do much to
You attacks don't do much to make you look better man, it's ignorant.
What I wrote isn't directed at everyone who questions 9/11, so let's add a few more cliffs notes:
>Honest researchers are overshadowed by zealous "loons"
>Instead of standoffish activism, "truthers" should engage community dialogue as a means to open this subject up to a broader audience
>Truth is not something that should be used to push an agenda, however valid, as truth often times is a subjective affair, and using "truth" to talk about 9/11 gets more scoffs than anything
Perhaps you are one of the type of persons I described here, otherwise you wouldn't be so harsh in rebuking everything I wrote! I sincerely ask you to look at the bigger picture, and if you are truly making a positive difference with your activism.
I won't even bother to watch the videos, I've seen them all before. I never once said there wasn't any truth in the "truth movement", I am making the point that it's a movement destined for the crazy bin so long as the things I mentioned are still in the fore, such as the relegation of the word "truth" to a political, adversarial agenda. This is very similar to the people pushing for the legalization of psychedelic substances who are distraught when yet another moron jumps out of a window on acid because they thought they could fly. . .
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
"I won't even bother to watch the videos,"
"I won't even bother to watch the videos, I've seen them all before."
I think that's revealing enough, thank you.
Yeah, I meant that, I've
Yeah, I meant that, I've seen so many videos of the firefighters and also William Rodriguez that it's pointless to spend more time on it. Those videos themselves are revealing, and they are not a part of what I'm talking about. . .so, you're welcome!
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
the videos are revealing of what?
the videos are revealing of what? the truth? i thought you said the "truth" was subjective?
is the "possibility" of the earth being flat subjective too? are the round-earthers simply in disagreement with the flat-earthers? and there is no final truth on the matter?
those videos i linked above were more than revealing you twit. they were first-hand accounts of what was going on inside those buildings. and if you would have stuck around for at least a 15 minutes of their interviews then you would rsee that their stories were confirming of each other.
You must have missed it the
You must have missed it the first time so let me repeat myself: I've seen the videos before, many times.
They are fist-hand accounts of what went down that day by people who were there, their stories corroborate, and they do not come off like the type of people that I am talking about.
You're not providing anything substantive about my article to support your negativity and ill-thought statements.
Again, I question your own intentions and wonder if you are part of the "loon" crowd that ruins the honest investigation of this subject for the rest of us. . .?
I never said all truth is subjective, but much supposed truth is. A fundamentalist Christian truly believes the Devil is out there to get them. An agnostic truly believes that Devils and Gods do not exist. Which one has the Truth?
Please think just a little bit before responding with negativity, because that is yet another cornerstone of what is wrong with the "truth" movement and something that definitely turns people off to the whole thing!
Ask yourself: Is the method of activism that I'm engaged in really creating a positive effect, or am I just acting out angers and frustrations?
I would also direct you to the concept of Shadow projections and their personal and cultural implications. . .
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
funny
Funny, that you still maintain that since people will disagree on God's existence then, naturally, we can never know if 9/11 was a government cover-up.
Do I have to cut this up and feed this to you in smaller chunks?
This is not two parties arguing over religion. This is about parties asking if the earth is round. In other words, there is an answer to the question. And I have something to tell you.
If you look at the evidence clearly, then you will find that there is a cover-up involved. And if you do not believe it, it is because of one or two reasons:
1) You haven't looked at the evidence -- or at least enough of the evidence.
2) You need to sharpen your observational skills.
Either way, I maintain that the only thing usurping around here is you when you go around calling people who are willing to look at the evidence as "loons."
I don't see how you adopted
I don't see how you adopted this position of my views in light of what I wrote here! I clearly say that there are people doing good work on this issue, but they become overshadowed by the so-called "loons"(a term I adopted from one of your replies, mind you) who end up discrediting the honest research by making the issue culturally detestable!
I never once said that there is no cover-up, I never once said that we know the whole truth either!
The whole point was to point out some unfortunate aspects of the self-titled "truth movement" and present some hopefully useful ideas(community dialogue for instance. . .) in the hope that some of the types of people I talk about in the article will read it and become more aware of the ineffectual results of their actions and methods.
And you still haven't really presented anything substantive about my post that would warrant such attacks by a total stranger such as yourself, yet again showing the lack of honest feedback and dialogue found in the "truth" movement. In the very least, I suppose, thank you for helping me make my position more clear.
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
.
.
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
The vuckin' truth is steel buildings don't collapse from fire
REALLY!
Doesn't take a vuckin' genius to understand that never before in the history of the world and not since 9/11/2001 has any steel building collapsed at the speed of gravity, from fire.
In the history of the vuckin' world!
Never before!
Never since!
"Committed To The Eradication Of Poverty Among Patriots"
"Those Who Strive For Excellence Refuse To Fear Mediocrity; They Eradicate It."
"GINO" = Government In Name Only
You just proved the original post
Read how you presented this...very brash, very aggressive. Most people don't respond well to in-your-face tactics, and this is a sure way to instantly turn people off instead of hearing you out, i.e. you're turning them into adversaries instead of convincing them of your stance.
Your pet fact is not in dispute and neither is the fact that all 4 black boxes are still not publicly accessible, nor the fact of the countdown on the FDNY radio. Fine, the buildings collapsed at 32 ft/sec/sec. Where's the rest of the story? Its all extrapolations, presumptions, and hypotheses, and that's where a lot of the "truther" rhetoric falls short.
Do you know where some of the mockery comes from? Stuff like the hologram nonsense, or the tomahawk missile (even though thousands of DC beltway commuters saw an aircraft) malarkey with the Pentagon. I've personally found "truther" sites that rigged information just as bad as government is accused of, including obvious image forgeries and off-site pictures of the famed "wheels" at the Pentagon while claiming they are direct from the crash site.
You don't have enough of the pieces to complete the puzzle. You have a handful of information, and the "truthers" have to resort to assumptions to complete the picture. In other words, the humble and honest stance is that something isn't right, but we can't confirm what.
You "truthers" have turned into a cult; at least, that's how the general population views you. Even one of Bush's biggest antagonists (Bill Maher) has taken to mock your tactics.
I'm in your face because you want to say something like
the vuckin' planet rotates west to east when the whole vuckin' world knows it rotates east to west!
How vuckin' stupid are you?
Do you hear me" Never before and never since, in the history of mankind?
You vuckin' turn ME off!
"Committed To The Eradication Of Poverty Among Patriots"
"Those Who Strive For Excellence Refuse To Fear Mediocrity; They Eradicate It."
"GINO" = Government In Name Only
You need some happy pills
I'm not sure when the rotational direction of the planet was in question, but whatever floats your boat, bucko.
How vuckin' stupid are you?
Not stupid enough to not see that you've not rebutted a damned iota of my comments.
Do you hear me" Never before and never since, in the history of mankind?
Hear? No, and thank heavens. I want to keep what's left of my hearing.
I read what your typing, and it seems to be the ramblings of somebody who is so lost in their own head that coherent conversation with entities other than the voices in your head is lacking.
You vuckin' turn ME off!
I wasn't trying to arouse you, but if that is a feeling you got from my post, you need some serious help via pharmaceuticals, and maybe some electro-shock. Perception is a virtue.
If you're actually out on the street trying to convince others of your stance with these sorts of replies, its no wonder the "truthers" have become little more than a punchline for the mainstream American.
I've considered the electro shock...but you're right....
I WAS off my meds yesterday when I responded.
Thanks for the new language tool...'punchline'.
I will try to work it into my future 9/11 truth efforts.
"9/11 was the punchline to Mr. Bush's vision of a new world order joke"
"Committed To The Eradication Of Poverty Among Patriots"
"Those Who Strive For Excellence Refuse To Fear Mediocrity; They Eradicate It."
"GINO" = Government In Name Only
Dude, that's just crap what
Dude, that's just crap what you're saying. Not about the buildings, but just shutting someone down like that, it really does prove my point above. It seems maturity is not encouraged along side "truth". . .
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
Fire AND structural damage
is the recipe. Duh.
h-daddy
Oh yeah, thanks for
Oh yeah, thanks for reminding me! I think the third element was pixie dust if I'm not mistaken! ;-)
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
Your original post is great
but daddy warbucks "truth" is nonsense. The investigation of 9/11 should focus on the "blowback" and the incompetency of our government to prevent the attack. Dr. Paul has said pretty much the same thing.
h-daddy
thank you for that. I do
thank you for that. I do think that even honest "truthers" are still so very reactionary so even the slightest hint of criticism brings a harsh response on their part. a sure sign of a belief system(BS) being in place of critical thought!
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
Right you are. Instead of
Right you are. Instead of bull horn tactics though, we need honest, open, critical dialogue about these facts spread throughout our culture if we want to really get anywhere on the issue. My whole point is not that the movement is all bullshit, I did mention they do sometimes use irrefutable facts!, but it's that by using such in your face, adversarial tactics to spread this "truth" they turn the public off to the whole subject, thereby burying it deeper and deeper into the Crazy Bin!!!
Believe me, I know that steel buildings(designed for airplane impact) don't just pancake in on themselves. Neither do buildings not hit by planes that have only sporadic fires within them. . .
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
Money, Lawyers, Overwhelm the courts in every state where
someone who died on 9/11 lived prior to that day.
Prosecutors bringing cases against those who were in power - command and control.
Prosecutors are there to defend the people of the state.
Grind it out.
"Committed To The Eradication Of Poverty Among Patriots"
"Those Who Strive For Excellence Refuse To Fear Mediocrity; They Eradicate It."
"GINO" = Government In Name Only
??? That's just an awkward
???
That's just an awkward series of statements, elaborate lucidly? I think I get what you're saying, that at least part of the motivation behind 9/11 was to "take care of" pesky prosecutors going after Big Brother. . . but what does that have to do with the scope of this article, if that is what you mean?
I'm not dissing your statement, I'm just confused, that's all!
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Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
I'm saying we can bring cases against suspects.
These are murder cases - undisputed - so that means every prosecutor in every state where a 9/11 victim lived has a duty to bring a case against those in government who had motive, opportunity and capacity to commit murder against a citizen of the prosecutor's state.
"Committed To The Eradication Of Poverty Among Patriots"
"Those Who Strive For Excellence Refuse To Fear Mediocrity; They Eradicate It."
"GINO" = Government In Name Only
Yeah, but that really is
Yeah, but that really is neither here nor there. I think it would be great if all victims families brought this thing to trial, but then again not all victims' families agree on what went down that day.
The whole point was to highlight the ineffectual methods that create a situation in which honest discourse on this topic is laughable in the culture at large, which is at the very least a tragedy, at the most a crime.
I also berated the usurpation of the word "truth" as it implies that any views and beliefs outside of the movement are false and that truth will only be found through specific channels.
I also gave a hint as to some better ways to spread the message. . .
--
Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com
Sancho23: Open the door, step outside and
take in a deep breath of fresh air.
Get out of your head. Its a circular trip to nowhere.
You will find this hard to believe, but I never raise my voice or ram people with 9/11 truth.
I did it above because here we have a forum that exists for one purpose,....restoring our freedoms from forces that are out to bind and destroy us with lies.
My assertions are correct. They can be proven. The only thing that has kept America from solving this crime is fear.
People are affraid to offend others. People are afraid of being judged by others.
People fear 'man'.
I don't let my fear of 'man' stop me.
We will bring justice. The time will be after Bush Inc leaves office.
All a full out legal assault would bring now is martial law or it's equivilent.
"Committed To The Eradication Of Poverty Among Patriots"
"Those Who Strive For Excellence Refuse To Fear Mediocrity; They Eradicate It."
"GINO" = Government In Name Only
Bravo
This is a great compilation of many conversations I've had with the hardcore "truthers" in the past, and you've refined my stance and opinion on the subject.
Excellent post.
Glad you liked, do check out
Glad you liked, do check out KMO's episode dealing with this subject, it's a good one!
Immerse yourself in the "truth movement" culture and then before you lose your sense of critical thought take a few steps back, really look at what is being presented, and just about anyone can come up with the same conclusions! It's unfortunate that so many are duped into carrying this truth banner without ever thinking that maybe there is a better way to go about this business of talking about what really happened on that day. It is very much akin to the UFO sub-culture who would have you believe that most of the sightings are actually "space brothers" from Arcturus who have come to enhance our DNA with stardust and fairie farts! Ugh, just no damn sense in any of it!
I like sticking with Robert Anton Wilson's notion of belief systems in that they are intrinsically BS and any belief system(BS) will eventually lead to fundamentalist attitudes and mentalities! And of course, we all know that every single fundamentalist believes they carry the One Truth, and that all others are wrong. . .
Belief Systems=BS
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Host, The Next Step Podcast
http://thenextstep.podomatic.com