Open thread: Have they got a bill yet?

was a pretty good guy, but excuse me folks we are in the middle of what could be a once in a life time crisis of our country and all I am seeing on the internet news is Paul Newman over and over and over.

This very brief report does not say it's been turned into a bill, but that a "breakthrough" has been reached, and was announced at 11:30pm EDT.

Saw the same headline as a headline only (meaning, no connected story) on CNN.com.

And a Reuters report says U.S. Congress reaches outline of bailout bill deal -- not that they have a bill yet, mind you. Quick quote:

"We've made great progress," House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi told reporters after a night of marathon talks. "We have to get it committed to paper so we can formally agree."

Committed to paper = turn it into a bill. Who'll be the sponsor?...

EDIT: The stories are starting to hit the wires. Here comes another one, out of San Diego's Channel 6 news: Breakthrough on bailout plan announced by Congressional leaders

Yep, we should probably have a bill...and, I'll bet, a signed law...by tomorrow.

Is the response to our leaders!!!!
They are doing it again, there is no bill yet!
There is nothing guaranteed but the base of it, doesn't mean it is going to pass! LOL!
Silly little idiots is what they are, We need to hire Donald Trump and call our leader and get his infamous quote. "You are fired!!!!!!"

For me to poop on. (ha ha Triumph the Insult Dog wins again)

'PAULSON' SCHEME TEARS UP THE U.S. CONSTITUTION, LEGITIMISING FINANCIAL FRAUD

IT'S AS THOUGH THE ORGANIZED CRIME CONTROL ACT OF 1970 DOESN'T EXIST

A U.S. 'COUP D'ETAT BY INSTALLMENTS', LIKE GERMANY IN 1933

Go HERE...: http://worldreports.org/n...

In Christ,
Dave

Take our NEW Presidential Poll, reflecting all 12 Candidates @
www.lionandlambministry.c...

www.lionandlambtv.com

http://worldreports.org/n...

In Christ,
Dave

Take our NEW Presidential Poll, reflecting all 12 Candidates @
www.lionandlambministry.c...

www.lionandlambtv.com

Want to know the real news? Need to go overseas. Globo (Brasil) is saying that it's a done deal to be announced tomorrow. It's going to happen. We must figure out what our response will be. For sure we must punish every YES vote by voting out of office. What else? Ideas anyone?
Say YES to Dr. NO

Latest google update, the news is all over the map. Here's the link.

http://news.google.com/ne...

Marilyn in Lake Jackson

Everybody, please read the END THE FED string on campaignforliberty.com

http://www.eurotrib.com/?...
"The Crisis Explained - Really

by rdf
Thu Sep 25th, 2008 at 10:24:14 AM EST
Analogies are never perfect, but here's one using horse racing. Don't expect a perfect correspondence to the banking situation, but I think it is close enough for government work.

Joe goes to the track and bets $2 on a horse.

Two guys standing nearby get into a discussion and Fred says to Sam, "I'll bet you $5 that Joe wins his bet."

Next to them are Bill and Bob. Bill says: "I'll bet you $10 that Fred welshes on his bet if he loses."

Next to them is Sally. Sally says: "For $3 I'll guarantee to Bill that if Bob fails to pay off, I'll make good on the bet."

Sally then goes to Mary and borrows the $7 needed in case she has to ever pay off and promises to pay back $8. She doesn't expect to every have to pay since she believes Bob will always make good. So she expects to net $2 no matter what happens to Joe.

A quick calculation indicates that there is now 2+5+10+3+7 = $27 riding on the outcome of the horse race.

Question how much has been "invested" in the horse race?

Answer:

$50,000 by the owner of the horse who is expecting to recoup his investment from the winnings of the horse and other future deals. Everyone else is gambling, not investing.

The issue with the home market is that the only "investor" was the person who bought the home. All those engaged in the meaningless derivatives spun off from this are gambling. You can see how quickly the face value of all these side bets can exceed the underlying investment. Who is holding these side bets - not the homeowner? It is the people at the failing investment banks, hedge funds and similar enterprises. Notice that the bailout is being directed at them not the homeowners.

The real world is, of course, even more complicated. Over the last 30 years people have been allowed to place bets on everything starting with the value of stock averages. They might as well bet on the temperature in Newark at 8:00 AM.

So when you hear everybody saying this is a crisis caused by the housing collapse, be skeptical. We are in the midst of a classic pyramid or Ponzi scheme and there is no way out except for people to lose a lot of money. All that is different this time is that it is the taxpayers who are being asked for the cash."

The Ted Spread is an indication of how willing banks are to lend to one another short term. It is the Libor Rate divided by the US T-bill rate. When the spread is high, it is an indication that things are not good. I understand banks are very reluctant to lend to one another because they don't know who is toxic and who is not. Click on the 5 year tab to see how calm this indicator was until last year.
http://www.bloomberg.com/...

The economic pie in the US has been expanding over the long run since Europeans first settled here, with minor contractions along the way. At first we were quite free with little government, and this allowed us to take abundant resources and create wealth.

This wealth was distributed in a bell curve fashion. If you lined up everyone by how much wealth they had, the man in the middle of the line had an average amount of wealth. This distribution of wealth was a product of free markets.

The economic pie continued to grow, particularly after we harnessed the energy of steam in engines, and discovered how to use oil and natural gas to fuel machinery, heat our homes, and make many products like plastic from them. Unfortunately, government also grew and granted privileges to the few at the expense of the many by passing laws that redirected wealth out of the hands of the many. This has progressively created the situation where the man in the middle of the wealth line does not any longer have an average amount of wealth. This is by definition a slave system because those in power, our masters, are taking from us what they do not honestly earn.

With the exception of the Civil War, there has not been an attempt to overthrow this system. The pain from rebelling against this system, particularly after the Civil War would have been greater than just going along. This was because the economic pie expanded at a better rate (oil was discovered in 1848) and everyone generally experienced, year to year, an improving standard of living. This was in spite of the fact that those with government privilege always took a much larger share of the increases.

Two things work against a continuation of the expansion of the economic pie. One is that controlled markets are not as efficient as free markets; this is why places like the USSR and Cuba never became highly productive economies. The second thing is the limitation of resources, particularly energy resources.

We are staring in the face both of these issues that threaten our lives. The economic pie is not expanding right now as a consequence of one of these economic privileges, the faulty money issuing privilege granted to the banking industry. It is designed to extract wealth from the majority via interest payments on loans made by banks with money they created out of thin air, but it also has inherent flaws because it relies on debt and even the banks themselves get caught in the trap of debt collapse.

In the background is the problem with fossil fuels, particularly oil. Almost all resources are limited. The easy oil was found first. It is easier to find and extract the large, shallower pools than to find and extract the smaller, deeper, more remote pools. If you look at the information on discoveries, they have not been good for the past 25 years and we have been living off of old fields, with new finds not being anywhere near close to being sufficient to replace what we used up. So we face the problem of oil becoming more expensive to acquire, and also the likelyhood of declining production. By my calculations, in just 20 years the oil the USA has available to use could be half of what it is today. Think on that one for a minute.

Both these problems are huge.

Now how does this bail out fit in. The economic pie is shrinking. Those in power are not about to give up their lifestyles so they must take a greater share of the shrinking pie to just to keep their high standard of living the same. So you must suffer a smaller share of the shrinking pie and live with less. This is exactly what the bailout is. It is the use of power to enforce the system of privilege. Whatever the politicians and controlled press tell you to make you think they are protecting the taxpayers, the truth is that they are screwing the taxpayers. More and more of this will come as economic conditions worsen. It is meaningless to contact your representative, because he does not represent your interests; he is just the front man for powerful financial interests, and is just there to give you the illusion that you are free; don't you know that you are free cause you can vote?

The pain for going along with the system will increase exponentially over the next decade or two. It will not take all that long before the pain from revolting will be less than the pain from going along. These are forces in motion and not likely to be reversed. I fully expect civil disorder of the magnitude of 1776 or 1861, and maybe worse. Just realize that the world population was about 1 billion at the time of the discovery of oil in 1848. The use of oil and other forms of energy provided enough additional food to allow the world population to expand to the present 6.5 billion. Without sufficient energy, the world population cannot be sustained; food production will fail; the vehicular transport system will fail; the electric grid will fail; and the struggle for life will return to what it has been for most of human history.

...will they try to market it through Obama and McCain tonight to pacify the country? Especially since there will be so many protests going on on Saturday?

This Saturday 2:00 pm at the Federal Reserve Bank in Houston, there will be a protest of the bank bailout. Call the media and bring your signs.

Dear SSgT_AF:

In my last email I told you that I would keep you up to date on any progress regarding the legislation dealing with the economic crisis we are facing. So here goes.

The latest proposal to address this crisis has the support of the Administration, House and Senate Democratic leadership and some Republicans. As you know, I am strongly opposed to the President's $700 billion bill with no oversight, and will review this latest proposal and other bills to ensure they protect the American taxpayer. This proposal is designed around four core principles:

o Taxpayer Protection: Participating companies must accept limits on executive compensation as well as grant an equity share to the taxpayers to ensure that any future profits will be shared;

o Oversight and Transparency: There must be a strong oversight board, regular reports to Congress, and audits by both an independent Inspector General and the General Accounting Office (GAO), an investigatory arm of Congress;

o Homeownership Preservation: Any bailout must maximize help for homeowners at risk of foreclosure; and,

o Funding Authority: Of the $700 billion request, $250 billion would be available immediately, an additional $100 billion released when the Treasury Secretary deems it necessary, with the remaining $350 billion subject to a veto by Congress.

Again, although there may be a need to act, we must not allow ourselves to rush into an action without fully examining the consequences. I will continue to work with my colleagues in Congress to carefully consider any proposed solution to this problem to ensure that it protects both our economy and the best interests of taxpayers.

Thank you again for sharing your thoughts with me. I will continue to keep you up to date as things progress.

I just called (3pm Pacific time). The staffers I spoke with said the details had not been worked out yet, so congressmen are not stating what their position is. It was easier to get through to the Representatives. The Senators (even at local offices) have their lines busy, or the mailbox is full.

Keep calling!!! Even if they push this through over the weekend, they will at least know why they don't get re-elected in November.

By the way, no one asked where I was calling from. You could probably add a few extra calls to your list if you have the time and keep up the pressure.

(By the way, the WaMu buyout occurred at midnight Eastern Time last night, so don't assume that because normal people are home for the weekend that the backroom deals and votes won't happen when you are sleeping late tonight -- if you can't sleep, try another phone call.)

Trying to get a 3rd party debate hosted online, not on radio, live broadcast!

Just pledge to support it and check out their site.
http://www.thirdpartytick...

DIGG IT!
http://digg.com/2008_us_e...

when you need it? We need to bring it back out of retirement and have it floating over them right now with giant lettering. WHAT ABOUT NO DON'T YOU GET?

Cheers
I am having a glass of cabernet sauvignon.

Listen to Tom DeWeese
"Here's What You Need to Know to Fight Back!"
http://tomdeweese.blogspo...
A MUST WATCH video

http://www.baldwin08.com/

"If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money,
first by inflation and then by deflation,
the banks
and corporations that will grow up around them,
will deprive the people of their property
until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers
conquered."

- Thomas Jefferson

while Congress is in session.
_________________________________________
"An economy built on fiat money is a society on its way to ashes."

It really implies that its a matter of time. I say hell now there aint no stinkin bail out !!!!

I couldn't get through at the switchboard, so I picked up my local phonebook and called my congressman and senators at their local offices. Got through quickly and painlessly. If you live in a bigger state than mine, you could look up their local office numbers on the Internet. Call them at one of their minor offices. You should get through pretty easily.

"The agreement (...) is obviously no agreement." (Sen. Shelby, Alabama):)

If you are up for some entertainment, tune in to CSPAN. (Both the Reps and the Senate) The Rebublicrats are at each other's throats. "You're to blame.......No You're to blame...." It's almost comical. We DEFINITELY need to keep calling. They are squirming because they know they've been sitting on their hands and now the elections are coming up for many of them. Be sure to tell them, when you call, that you will not be voting for anyone who votes for the bailout.

Didn't McCain suspend his campaign? If so, doesn't that mean that there are NO Republican Nominees?

If so..

1) McCain Suspends Campaign
2) Equals McCain No Longer Running?
3) ???
4) Elect Ron Paul
5) Profit!

we need to recall or do something drastic with these politicians who don't care on what we have to say. This is Bull crap piled on bull crap, we are not being represented up there on the hill, they represent big oil, big business, and big government!!!!!! We need to take back our country!

keep going

for the C4L Action Alert page.

lets get this going!

www.campaignforliberty.co...

said "this is a very unpopular vote, but we (the democrats) don't agree and think this bill is right for the country" BS...almost all Republicans voted no to bring the bill before the house (except 2) and almost all Democrats voted to bring the Economic Stimulus/Federal Intervention in the Markets before the House.

PyraBang for Liberty

According to the Senate website, the Financial industry bailout package is still in "Draft."

the hook on her fax machine. I have been trying to fax her a letter for over 3 hours now. I have emailed her already, but I think the phone calls and faxes mean more sometimes. I was able to get faxes to my 2 Senators, and my Representative, maybe they will share them with Pelosi. I have not been able to get through on the phones, always busy too.