Lovely, Silver just started tanking. EDIT: Just made a nice turn upward.
Submitted by bigmikedude on Sun, 10/05/2008 - 21:04
The dollar must be pressing upward.
EDIT: I wonder if the news of the European bailout triggered the upturn??http://www.kitco.com/charts/livesilver.html
I told you babe just hang
I told you babe just hang on.... This from Franklin Sanders (the guy on America Freedom to Fascism )
Markets are so out of whack I don't know what to say. In 28 years
trading silver & gold professionally, I've never seen markets like
this. The paper gold price closed Friday at 828.90, down 10.10,
but if I want to buy gold to hold in my own hand, physical gold,
I would have had to pay 879.07 an ounce (US$50 more) to get
Mexican 50 pesos, US $923 to get American Eagles, and US$949.35
to get French or Swiss 20 francs.
Silver closed at 1127 cents, down 20.5 cents, but to buy US 90%
silver coin and wait 2-8 weeks to get it I would have to pay 1518 cents
per ounce, a 36% premium over the paper price. And silver American
Eagles? Well, forget them. They cost 1681 cents, a 50% premium, &
heaven only knows when I'll get delivery.
How can this be explained? It appears incontrovertible that demand
for silver & gold--real, physical, deliverable silver & gold--is so strong,
so frantic, that the public is willing to pay huge premiums to
buy it. That casts the validity of the paper price into doubt, & points to some government manipulation holding down the price....
Doh Doh Heads
Why don't you go to Ebay? or any online seller of silver n gold????
How 'bout an actual coin shop?
You will get the REAL price of the stuff. I have been watching the prices for a bout a year now and they don't seem to have any co-relation to the the 'free market' 'spot price'
:-)
I see.
Just ordered some gold coins over eBay. Got a bunch of silver too. Don't know why I mentioned that. (Just on my mind I guess.)
--Cliff
Sioux City, Iowa
—Cliff in Sioux City, Iowa
———————
If you remember anything, remember the throw-away tools of war.
I've been considering .............
selling on ebay, but is it trustworthy to sell on ebay? What's to stop someone from claiming that "they got rocks when they were supposed to get silver?"
i quit selling on ebay
food freedom,one seed at a time.
they have screwed the sellers.Someone can do exactly what you said and then paypal/ebay will hold your funds.
NIKKEI is TANKING Down 530
NIKKEI is TANKING Down 530 + point for a 5% dump
Tim
GOLD
Movement from Stocks to
Movement from Stocks to FOREX and Metals, Some bonds
Tim
GOLD
For anyone who is interested
For anyone who is interested there is someone selling a roll of silver Maple Leafs (25) for what amounts to $17/coin on ebid.
What just caused it to
upturn I wonder?
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I'm done watching the ticker price...
If you own the physical silver and if you went to sell it and could get $19 an ounce for it on Ebay - who cares what the ticker is saying on Kitco. I used to watch it and now I'm done. I feel like I made the choice to buy and those reasons haven't changed. I know eventually there will be some value greater than $10 an oz. and still confident that at some point there will be a nice profit or benefit.
To me owning silver also represents the truth. Even Jesus spoke about usery and money changers. I have to think that God will take care of us.
BMD, this is why it's best
BMD, this is why it's best that the silver/gold you buy have some numismatic value.
METALS CHARTS!!!
CHARTS!
so if you look at the 'technical' charts over on the left, the trend remains for pretty much all of the three major metals, silver, gold, and platinum.
metals are trading like commodities too. i cant find a great chart for historic oil prices (raw data, not adjusting for inflation) but i would surmise that put up against the charts for precious metals, there would be a very similar spike in price. and now we see all commodities falling, as has been explained that people are selling their positions to maintain operating cash and liquidity.
given the amazing spike in metals, it makes a good bit of sense that theyre coming back down to earth so to speak. platinum in particular is down over 50% from its peak earlier this year. metals seem like they should have some more time to fall. the credit crisis isnt going to be alleviated by this bailout bill and we're probably going to continue to see the cash crunch contract even tighter. its been estimated that the bailout 'relief' isnt even going to come into play until nov in the earliest but looking more like a few months out.
i think the biggest question which will determine if we will maintain a deflationary course vs a contracting, deflationary period followed by a severe inflationary period will be determined by the fed's actions. if the fed has to monetize all of the debt from the toxic securities, then theres going to be a flood of dollars. i think that is when peter schiff expects this change from a rapid deflationary period to a hyper inflationary period to occur.
im merely speculating, perhaps, but im still not so sure that the markets are going to be as bad as everyone says tomorrow. id imagine that it might actually end as a positive day. i wouldnt dare go insofar as to say that will last the week though. i still say wednesday is sell off mania day :)
platinum and palladium are
platinum and palladium are commodities most of there production is used in vehicles.. yes they will come down because people are not buying cars.
also silver is going to be used instead of platinum in cateletic converters, another new use for silver! now gold and silver are MONEY! silver is both a commodity and money! those 4 metals need to be separated from eachother!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
the reality is people are
the reality is people are going to stop spending, stop borrowing
and they'll start holding dollars.
this will increase the value of the dollar as people become stingy with them.
BUT BEFORE this effect truly kicks in....speculators with large holdings are going to evacuate en masse "in advance" of the actual move, from their commodity holdings
once the big players think something is the next big wave, they all go in a giant move
the dollar is the next big wave.
how long will it last? who the hell knows.
but once it's over, people will start looking at moving their money into businesses, production, etc.
this will be the turn around.
and i expect inflation to come back with a vengence
this is going to make the recovery bitter sweet...
and perhaps slow down the recovery....
Increasing demand for $
this will increase the value of the dollar as people become stingy with them.
And people need to pay down debt. Debt in the USA is based on dollars. So people will sell their metal, cars, whatever (driving down those prices) to get $ (driving up $). While this is speculation, this could happen and result in a stronger dollar.
the one thing you guys
the one thing you guys forget is this! we are only 300 million people in this world of 6 billion.. the big population centers of the world, china , india and the arabs are buying.. you think people selling over here is going to offset the buying over there! hell not many people or "mainstreet" people here own silver or gold what 2% of the population maybe has some to very little? overseas gold and silver has been money for thousands of years.. those people know that.. thats why they are buying. the American only knows dollars.. he does not understand that gold is the dollars superior thanks to keynsian brainwashings in the government reeducation
indoctrination centers known as public schools or communist advancement centers known as colleges! with jobs leaving, layoffs, I got
news for you.. people won't pay down debt.. they will default! just like they are doing with houses! gold and silver are the ultimate safe haven! the rest of the world is flocking to it now.. the amercans have not just because of all the bs like what were are read on this thread!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
try the video here:
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/67346
Dr Paul explains why the dollar is terminaly ill.
Don't wait to buy gold/silver, buy gold/silver and wait.
sell ! my friend in toronto just told me it's gonna tank tomorro
thankfully I don't carry silver.
~Mikael / Peace, love, Light and unity ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
looks like they have not
looks like they have not tanked.. gold and silver up.. you need to pick better friends! :)~
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
Never take advice from a
Never take advice from a Canadian. ;)
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
In that case I'll talk to you tomorrow afternoon !
~Mikael / Peace, love, Light and unity ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
and who is your friend??
and who is your friend?? whats his inside connection?
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
I am liquidating my silver position as we speak
I am not going to tolerate $9 an ounce......I am out
why not just hold on to it
why not just hold on to it until the price goes back up? It inevitably will.
That's what I'm thinking.
What the hell's the hurry? Why the panic? Silver goes up and down all the time. You don't lose or profit until you sell. So why sell when it's on a downward dip? Then again, why am I asking these questions? People insist on making silly decisions, constantly. That's why we've got the gov't we've got....
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liberty_outlook/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Let them protest all they want, as long as they pay their taxes.” ...credited to Al Haig, Ronald Reagan's Secretary of State.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/liberty_outlook/
http://www.dailypaul.com/blog/1125
Ron Paul=Red Pill
Deflation
Mike -
I guess you don't buy into the deflation idea? Have you ever read "Conquer the Crash"?
He takes the opposite view of Peter Schiff. Schiff says deflation is impossible. Prechter says that it is inevitable. As all of this credit deflates, people will sell everything and anything to raise cash in order to stay solvent, pay off debts, etc. - including gold & silver.
This means that the dollar will continue to rally. Old habits die hard, and everyone still thinks of Treasuries as the safest security around. I know that is insane to us, but it is what the rest of the world thinks. As jump out of falling stocks & other assets, they need dollars to buy Treasuries. So, as the US economy goes into recession, the Dollar & Treasuries go up.
We might get a little bounce here, but Prechter's next target for silver is for $9.38, then $8.00-$8.50.
Please become a fan: www.facebook.com/dailypaul
I did read conquer the
I did read conquer the crash.. the problem with prechter is this.. the dollar is NOT backed by gold! this is not the 1930's all over again. AGAIN what ever the spot price is the physical price is much higher.. how can you have falling prices with no abundance of metal? ITS HARD TO FIND! 2.029 trillion dollars have been put into the financial system since sept 14 th.. they are going to cut rates by 1/2 a point.. how is any of this going to support the dollar? how is the government going to pay all these unemployment claims as the recession/depressionworsens when there tax reciepts will go lower?? I think you are wrong here Micheal.. this depression will not be like the 30's. not only is the dollar going to devalue but also the euro! the ultimate security is gold and silver.. ALSO a silver eagle costs average 20.00 on ebay! far from 11.01 spot right now.. I think if you sell you are a fool.. the supply is already tight and getting worse there is a shortage! so you sell now what is your gaurantee you can buy back at lower prices! Don't bank everything on what prechter says.. I would read Schiff, and Sinclair! remeber as the economy slows the government has higher costs.. they print the money to cover those costs!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
SIERRAHPBT you fool, its DEFLATION!
SIERRA,
Food and energy will reasonably hold their price because of world population growth, everything else is headed down! Butler,Schiff, and Sinclair are WRONG and so are you!
Every major government has announced bailout programs and what has silver done? Nothing but go down you fool. Silver is down 40% in 5 months! Silver has extremely reliable track records of beginning to go down prior to recessions. Silver acts mostly like an industrial metal. A lot of people think it’s a precious metal, but it behaves much more like an industrial metal. When it goes up, you can be sure there won’t be a recession, and when it goes down, you can bet on one. Take the tin foil hat off SIERRA!
" Inflation is an increase in the volume of money and credit relative to available goods," and "Deflation is a contraction in the volume of money and credit relative to available goods." SIERRAHPBT " Credit is CONTRACTING worldwide! D E F L A T I O N .
Now a deflationary recession can still turn into an inflationary depression.
However, by definition, this would be a year or two out unless GDP in 2009 falls 10% or more. Which is possible. Prechter is right, often times too right too earlier, but right more than he is wrong for 25 years. Your boy Bulter hasn't been right yet in 10 years. Prechter is calling for silver between the $8 and $9 range. Prechter also claims cash will be king until the deflation ends and the politicians hyper inflate. Lets see who is right.
So far, since May SIERRA, your batting avg. is ZERO: silver down, gold down, oil down, the dollar up. But who knows, you could get lucky, even a blind pig finds the trough eventually.
I'm thinking
that FRN's are probably the best investment to be had right now. When silver gets to $2-$3 oz., then will be a good time to buy metals, land, real estate, and other things one needs. I'm kinda enjoying that I haven't lost a dime on any investment in the last year, and that the value of my cute little FRN's are increasing in value most every day for the last many months.
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" Bugs Bunny
"Scwewy Wabbit!" Elmer Fudd
I'll assume you're joking,
I'll assume you're joking, but in the event you're not bear in mind FRNs increase in value when prices come down. Ask yourself if that has occurred with the items you buy on a regular basis? Also ask yourself if you think their value will increase after the bailout money enters the economy?
dream on! "When governments
dream on!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
Small holders aren't selling
otherwise there would be no shortage at the mints, coin shops, and online bullion firms. If this is going on, it has to be large holders selling to each other. I'm learning to pay scant attention to spot price manipulations, only how much it's selling for on ebay and how much is available in the local coin shop.
My Blog:
http://horizonscanblog.blogspot.com/
Small holders aren't selling?
So all these sellers on Ebay are the "Big Holders"?
----------------------------------------------------------
"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" Bugs Bunny
"Scwewy Wabbit!" Elmer Fudd
Schiff talks about deflation as well
Schiff divides the crash in two parts. The first is deflationary, because of the unwinding of the whole credit and reserve system.
The second part is inflationary, because the government starts printing massive amounts of cash in order to cover its expenses. This will happen because foreign investments will dwindle, unemployment will rise dramatically and tax revenue will push the current account deficit deeper into the red.
The second part of Schiff's thesis remains to be proven. A lot of people are beginning to believe the inflationary idea, given that the Fed and the Treasury have started to print money on demand. (Meaning that the Fed isn't just selling pre-existing treasuries that existed in their balance sheet to offset the lending -- Bernanke keeps running out of bills, and has to ask Paulson for more).
Someone who invested in gold and expects an inflationary depression has to be patient. There's no reason for us to expect inflation so soon, because the government can't print and distribute money at the rate it's being destroyed.
Please explain that to SIERRAHPBT
Please explain that to SIERRAHPBT,
God I hope not
if that happens I will be financially destroyed with almost no means of recovery. I am almost ready to sell half of my position again and take the hit to wait and see what it's going to do to protect myself from that.
Become a fan: www.facebook.com/dailypaul
Conquer the Crash
I'm going to mail you a book tomorrow as well.
Please become a fan: www.facebook.com/dailypaul
Kool. Thanks
It's worth a look.
Become a fan: www.facebook.com/dailypaul
The dollar is pressing upward
Here's the EUR/USD pair: http://www.dailyfx.com/charts/Chart.html?symbol=EUR/USD
why would it do this today ?
for opening tomorrow ?
~Mikael / Peace, love, Light and unity ~
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Stop the NWO....It's just illumi..Naughty !
Who knows
This manipulation is way out of hand.
Become a fan: www.facebook.com/dailypaul
have you read this
have you read this mike!
http://www.kitco.com/ind/Laird/sep302008.html
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
Hope it
works out to our advantage but I am at the point of truly believing that the manipulation that has come to light, will be found to be only a small fraction of that which may be controlling all of the markets. This is just sheer insanity.
Become a fan: www.facebook.com/dailypaul
jpmorgan and atleast 1 other
jpmorgan and atleast 1 other major bank is still trying to cover its shorts.. this should be over soon! actually its exciting! once they cover its katy bar the door! they will go long!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
Short covering
Short covering would raise the price, not lower it. What you got here is de-
leveraging and high demand for dollars vs. euros etc., due to tight credit. Notice that the dollar is losing ground to the yen, as the yen carry trade unwinds.
Hey all you tape-watchers, find another hobby. This one will drive you nuts. (Don't ask how I know.)
yes you are right... as they
yes you are right... as they cover the shorts the price rises because they have to buy them back..this is why we are seeing record price swings.. look at that spike in oil last week whjen it went all the way back up to 127.00 in what 2 hours time! somebody was covering! but as it goes up, then then manipulate it down.. all you have to do is look at the COT's.. also this high demand for dollars is going turn here soon!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
Where did you hear this information?
Haven't read that anywhere... I simply wish I could buy some eagles around $12/ coin but that isn't possible...
Jig
____________________________________________
Prospecting for opportunity in a river of information....
*** The Financial Panner ***
www.thefinancialpanner.com
you have to remeber.. the
you have to remeber.. the physical price is not the same as the spot price.. spot price reflects paper price as in futures contracts.. this is the area where jpmorgan and 1 or 2 other big banks have been manipulating the metals.. this downturn has given the fed the green light to lower rates..
also who benefits the most from lower fed rates... the banks!!!! the dollar will soon start to tank.. physical gold and silver will go higher.. even in a deflationary depression! go back to the 30's... FDR,, conficated gold.. after he conficated it from the public at 20.00 per ounce, he then revalued it to 35.00! so the price stayed the same. BUT go look at what happened to gold stocks! homestake mining went from around a buck a share to 600.00!!! this time around the dollar is not backed by gold.. nixon took us off the gold standard in 71'. all this printing of money for the bailouts etc will devalue the dollar.. the metals should go up big time! cash will not be king this time around!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain