Can there be a "GOOD" NWO?
Posted October 6th, 2008 by kwas
I have just finished reading "New World Order" by HG Wells. No it's not science fiction, he was a socialist. I understand a lot more about their viewpoint now. I will try to briefly put down what I've learned in pointers.
- NWO is not absolute evil; it is a very human business
- that means that there are a bunch of ideologically motivated people (writers, philosophers), a bunch of people who are just dragged along by circumstances, a bunch of people who want to make money
- The primary drive behind the NWO as I see it, is that productive, acquisitive, power-driven people thrive on restructuring actual circumstances (the dictionary definition of power). When you get to those levels, the only "clay" to work on is human society itself.
- To them, collectivism is a puzzle. It's like a fruit with a hard shell. They know it contains world peace, and the fruitful employment/realization of all citizens; but previous trials have failed. A new model is necessary. This is what they're working on! In HG Wells' words: "We human beings are facing gigantic forces that will
either destroy our species altogether or lift it to
an altogether unprecedented level of power and well-
being. These forces have to be controlled or we
shall be annihilated. But completely controlled they
can abolish slavery - by the one sure means of
making these things unnecessary. Class-war communism
has its opportunity to realise all this, and it has
failed to make good. So far it has only replaced one
autocratic Russia by another. Russia, like all the
rest of the world, is still facing the problem of
the competent government of a collective system. She
has not solved it." - Obviously the NWO would be the largest power center in history - no wonder greedy, evil and selfish people have become prominent in trying to bring it about. My guess is that most NWO proponents are NOT evil.
- That said, a fundamental evil exists in the socialism dogma that the END justifies the MEANS. For instance, these people idealize world peace but think that torture and war are reasonable means to bring it about.
- HG Wells said this about the "pendulum of power" (my term) and previous insurrections and class struggles. "The Have-nots have never produced the intelligence
and the ability and the Haves have never produced
the conscience, to make a permanent alteration of
the rules of the game. " I agree with him. - Now there's something to be said about the aesthetic appeal of this NWO (to them at least), which will help clarify the "end justifies the means" issue. "the more lucid thinkers [...] have been moved less
by moral impulses and sentimental pity and so forth,
admirable but futile motives, as by the intense
intellectual irritation of living in a foolish and
destructive system. They are revolutionaries not
because the present way of living is a hard and
tyrannous way of living, but because it is from top
to bottom exasperatingly stupid.". What he's saying here is that there's no point in engaging in moralism about class wars (as he previously stated, the poor aren't any more virtuous or any morally better than the rich, just less successful at being evil) - but that some thinkers have started to get pissed off at the sheer wastefulness of this process of countries, wars, and fragmentation (a "fragmented hard drive" is probably conceptually close to this feeling of wastefulness) - Now here's where you see that most socialists actually aim at doing good: "For sound practical reasons, over and above any ethical or sentimental considerations, we have to devise a collectivisation that neither degrades nor enslaves.". Also: ""the question of how to collectivise the world, so
that it will remain collectivised and yet
enterprising, interesting and happy enough to
content that common young man who will otherwise
reappear, baffled and sullen, at the street corners
and throw it into confusion again. "
"... Would you be for this type of NWO if it were possible? I am an idealist and I do see how this concept can be attractive - though I am skeptical about its realizability; government is a power center, power centers are corruptible.... hence a world government is doomed to be corrupted, mix that with total power and you get a prison planet...
I leave you with two quotes, again from HG Wells, one positive: "The establishment of a progressive world socialism
in which the freedoms, health and happiness of every
individual are protected by a universal law based on
a re-declaration of the rights of man, and wherein
there is the utmost liberty of thought, criticism
and suggestion, is the plain, rational objective
before us now. Only the effective realisation of
this objective can establish peace on earth and
arrest the present march of human affairs to misery
and destruction. We cannot reiterate this objective
too clearly and too frequently. The triangle of
collectivisation, law and knowledge should embody
the common purpose of all mankind."
... and one scary...
"People talk much nonsense about the disappearance of
incentive under socialism. The exact opposite is the
truth. It is the obstructive appropriation of
natural resources by private ownership that robs the
prosperous of incentive and the poor of hope. Our
Declaration of Human rights assures a man the proper
satisfaction of all his elementary needs in kind,
and nothing more. If he wants more than that he will
have to work for it"
This is SO not going to work..... At this point I'm tempted to just dismiss the topic but if you think about it, China's straight-shooting capitalism in Africa is enslaving people just like a totalitarian regime would... The fact that WE happen to live in a first world country and were born in families rich enough to end up knowing how to read and type should not be taken as the "status quo" of the current "world order" - it is actually a rare circumstance. It is as if we were born in the "new" world order and were in some illuminati circle.
So I think *some* of the ideas behind NWO and socialism are great (protecting people against wars and exploitation etc), but overall the NWO plan would make things even worse because it puts all power in few hands. And, this said, I think the non-NWO world sucks too. Would suck a bit less without FED and IMF and the rothschilds etc. but it would still suck.
So until the fabians etc. can come up with a better proposal, I say ACTION BOMB THEM and VOTE THEM OUT. Back to the drawing board, guys.
The only last word is Schopenhauer's. We're here to "expiate the guilt of life". It's not a party, guys....outputBookmark/Search this post with:
Thank you
for this very thought provoking thread. My philosophy has always been live and let live but those in power don't seem to have my philosophy. I guess theirs is king of the hill. Just my two cents.
He's a central planner
H.G.Wells believed in the superiority of central planning. i.e. One of these people who had huge faith in the so called "experts" to rule over everyone, rather than distributed knowledge and expertise in an unregulated free market system.
I think if he saw the results of the communist and socialist experiments of last century and read some von Mises, he would change his beliefs.
No, there can not be a 'good' NWO
It's like asking....are there any 'good' fatal car wrecks? Or... are there any 'good' nuclear accidents? Or perhaps, are there any 'good' forms of torture?
There is no 'good' NWO. No version of a unified govt. for the entire planet, no matter how benevolent, no matter how well regulated, no matter how diligent its citizens, would escape falling to the influence of the few who sought what the sociopaths always seek, MORE.
We must keep our governments local if they are to serve their proper function of protecting the rights of their citizens.
HG Wells was trapped in a linear way of thinking-a trap of
western logic.
yes, logic served us for a long time and allowed these advances in technology, culture and society.
but the world,isnt linear--it is a non-linear, "chaotic system". no one cause has one singular effect as no one effect has a singular cause. variables are everywhere, the amount of change is unpredictable given a single deviation.
The analogy is the world of classical physics,which is true on a scale or level,but breaks down on the smaller[quantum] and larger[galactic dynamics].
This is why I stopped feeling scared about the plans of a few families way back in the 1700s about world domination: IT SIMPLY ISNT POSSIBLE.
maybe for a few years,or a generation,but this hold is fragile. it is very very hard to maintain this domination[a dictatorship needs to kill a lot of dissenters,sparks fear and submission for awhile,but ultimately breaks down]. ENTROPY, and CHAOS SYSTEMS were unheard of at the time of HGWells, and Meyer Rothschild---so their plans for utopia or world domination is a fantasy.
on a personal note, each and everyone of us also goes thru this journey--from a feeling of invincibility during youth, a superioirity complex of being a man among demons, to a "change the world" apex--to a downfall or a realization of the importance of life and previously seeking it in ways unnatural for a human being--then self-actualization occurs.
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FOR THE RELIGIOUS-St. Augustine was the most insightful of all theologians if you ask me. He said, we must not seek things in this world, for this world is momentary---so, any happiness arising from this momentary and imperfect world is ALSO temporary. For him, the only perfect and lasting "concept" or "thing" or "entity" is GOD[not the Gold Oil and Drugs priori of the social darwinists]---so,only perfect happiness comes from a perfect being=GOD.
This is the central philosophy of St Augustine: The soul is restless until it rests in God,the perfect source of happiness. He is advocating a life dedicated to a "journey" towards God.
His idea incorporated a new concept in christianity then:before him, IT WAS A DUTY TO OBEY GOD--a form of control, an apparatus of control by priests and the heirarchy. his idea subverted that: HE ARGUED THAT IT IS MORE THAN A DUTY, IT IS A SOURCE OF ALL LASTING HAPPINESS. [the apparatus of fear was broken and subverted by a good person, an outsider and a "sinner" who didnt play by the structured life and rules by the ruling theocracy] it bought back that which can never be offered and missing by the power elite of their time.
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Whatever system these power elite come up with,it will fail. Even our revolution will ultimately suceed or fail----like Chris Nolan's Batman=EITHER YOU DIE A HERO,or LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO BECOME THE VILLAIN. These ideas of utopia are welcome in a way that it speaks of the best of ideas, hopes and aspirations of people--but the reality of actually applying it, and replacing the previous set of complications over another,is like a dog chasing its own tail.
That is why even Ron Paul doesnt want to dictate to all of you. He knows the moment a central authority starts to run your lives, your decisions are compromised and the outcome ultimately becomes worse than if you weighed them by yourself. Linear systems, linear authority emanating from a central authority is perilous and takes away your freedom and prosperity.
THIS IS TRUE FOR GOVERNMENTS, AND ALSO TRUE IN INDIVIDUALS. RP is not advocating his central authority over your lives-he knows it is detrimental. he is not advocating a "no-rules" situation too--another trap of western logic is dielectics, an "either-or" for-or-against mindset. Dr. Paul wants you all to TRANSCEND this decades of programming/upbringing.
With me, I just want to be counted amongst the remnants of my generation. I do it not because of a "profit motive"; or a "reward in heaven" or a "personal gain"--I just do this because it is the right thing to do--in any time, in any age. and that is enough for me.
WOW! THANK YOU for this FABULOUS post....
I am much more a "philosopher" in my faith and get SO tired of the simplistic and juvenile comments of those who "oppose religion" or "god"..... and even sometimes from those who are believers. On THIS site, where we are all talking about FREEDOM bringing people together, I get so tired of the petty bickering, and sometimes vicious hateful divisions. If people cannot get beyond the petty, and see that we are all on the SAME JOURNEY, then the human race will never get anywhere.
If you go to the more philosophical view of faith, it can mesh well and be seen in ALL of the major faiths with almost no contradictions. It also can mesh well with those who see the Universal Energy and "becoming" part of the universe. Thank you so much for putting this into words, where I have been too lazy to try. It just seemed to daunting to even try to explain.
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http://www.youtube.com/wa...
"Not armies, not nations, have advanced the race; but here and there, in the course of ages, an individual has stood up and cast his shadow over the world."
yes and there will be when
yes and there will be when Jesus comes back to reign for 1000 years after the tribulation period!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
I can't believe you are
I can't believe you are asking this. Lets use our nation as an example. First their was honorable and honest people in the government. Then over a 100 years the situations deteriorated so bad that there was a civil war. The north invaded the south lead by their evil banking masters and raped and pillaged the south. Now look at today We have corrupt evil mother fuckers in every part of the government ..... Now take our huge government were we have no say so and multiply it 1000% and then get a picture.
Ask yourself this
Do you want the leaders of this NWO to be people who have killed innocents in false flags and have engineered a global economic crisis, allow genocides, greed, and on and on and on. If they were so good why are they clandestinely destroying us and manipulating the world.
If a NWO was truly called for it would happen nautually and peacefully.
No, these people are dark and evil and their agenda and fruit of their labors will be thusly known.
"There can be only one permanent revolution - a moral one: The regeneration of the inner man."
—Tolstoy
The only 'good' NWO...
is a dead NWO!
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
lol
The only good bug is a dead bug! "Starship Troopers" For those which haven't seen the movie it's an interesting look into a completely military world. Not military state. Military world vs. The Bugs! Would you like to know more?
I think the problem with a World Order is...
That although one can dream of a day when all humans live in an atmosphere of cooperation and all work for the good of society, it doesn't work in the real world. Plato's "The Republic" was an effort to logically go through the steps that would be necessary to create a perfect society (as was Augustin's "City of God"). In the end Plato (and I believe Augustine) realized that it would not work because of the factor of "evil" in the world.
I have always said that Pure Communism and Pure Capitalism are the best forms of society. BUT the problem with both is that the only way either one works is with 100% participation by the people. And since you will ALWAYS have people who do NOT cooperate, and want power over others, or want what others have, you will always have flawed and damaged systems.
The fatal flaw with the well meaning NWO people is that they do not take evil into consideration. The LEADERS are EVIL and lure the good people in with promises of world peace, etc. But those who govern are those who crave power, and at that point the whole ideal gets bastardized. They convince the good people that the plan is SO good that it must be FORCED on people. And once force enters the picture you have evil.
This is why governance is best left at the smallest level possible (such as the 50 states working as 50 little countries tied together only on limited issues), because the bigger the power base is, the more evil enters the system.
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http://www.youtube.com/wa...
"Not armies, not nations, have advanced the race; but here and there, in the course of ages, an individual has stood up and cast his shadow over the world."
There is only one way
The only good NWO is one in which each and every human thinks and acts (for themselves) globally and if that happens then governments/banks will never get away with their own crackpot version!
Freedom is first a state of mind--remember your humaness
Who knows?
"Who knows what's good or bad?"
That's the ambiguous moral of a buddhist story where a farmer's good luck turns to bad luck which turns to good luck, etc.
One of the strangest things I discovered about myself in this Ron Paul revolution is that I admire much of what I've learned about the spooky NWO puppet masters. I look at the Georgia Guidestones, and think, "Yeah, that sounds like a pretty good utopia."
It's not like my opinion matters or anything, but we'd be a lot better off as a species, as a planet with a thin film of life, if there were only 500 million of us instead of 6 billion and rising. If there is a scheme to achieve that, I'm all for it, and I'd like to see the 500 million people living in a world that values their individual liberty...as they discipline themselves not to tread so trecherously on others.
I don't think we should kill all the Christians right away, but we should exercise draconian population control to help eradicate their stupid genes from the human race.
I'm joking! Everyone knows that Christians are so stupid because of environmental conditioning, not genetics.
now THAT's funny
now THAT's funny
thanks
Thanks, Makia37.
I try to mix some sarcasm into my poignant analyses, just to lighten it up, you know? I'm not real good at it, though.
I respect my opponent, below, named alaskaron. He's got a great sense of humor! I was laughing a few minutes ago about something he wrote about a toaster and a transhumanist. He's good!
I've still got a lot to learn about humor...
Daily Paul is starting to get a little whacky.
Atheist-ego versus Religious-ego leads to Extreme-atheist ego versus Extreme-religious ego, and so on.
I wonder if any Christians are stronger in their faith as a result of my little insults and the resulting entrenchment of ego? On my end, I've become stronger in my anti-faith, so hopefully it's a win-win situation for everyone.
Stick in there, Makia37!
I assume you're a troll
But it's worth it for everyone to read between the lines of the Georgia "Guidestones." When you know the mentality of the people who spew crap like this, it's easier to decipher:
MAINTAIN HUMANITY UNDER 500,000,000
IN PERPETUAL BALANCE WITH NATURE
Translation: We will decide who lives and dies -- in perpetuity.
GUIDE REPRODUCTION WISELY —
IMPROVING FITNESS AND DIVERSITY
Translation: We will use eugenics to breed a fit and, when needed, specialized worker/slave class to feed off of -- in perpetuity.
UNITE HUMANITY WITH A LIVING
NEW LANGUAGE
Translation: We will impose Newspeak on the proles so that they won't even have the words with which to think an independent thought.
RULE PASSION — FAITH — TRADITION
AND ALL THINGS
WITH TEMPERED REASON
Translation: We will extinguish all loyalties that compete with the omnipotent state, including religion, family, and even the will for independence.
PROTECT PEOPLE AND NATIONS
WITH FAIR LAWS AND JUST COURTS
Translation: We will establish bureaucratic edicts and state-run kangaroo courts to enforce our will while seemingly providing a forum for redress of grievances to fool the stupid proles.
LET ALL NATIONS RULE INTERNALLY
RESOLVING EXTERNAL DISPUTES
IN A WORLD COURT
Translation: We will leave some of the day-to-day stuff to middle managers, but make all the important decisions at a highly centralized, tightly controlled, and wholly unaccountable level.
AVOID PETTY LAWS AND USELESS
OFFICIALS
Translation: We will centralize authority by eliminating local or regional competing political units.
BALANCE PERSONAL RIGHTS WITH
SOCIAL DUTIES.
Translation: The proles will do what we tell them, when we tell them, and like it.
PRIZE TRUTH — BEAUTY — LOVE —
SEEKING HARMONY WITH THE
INFINITE
Translation: We will supplant traditional religion, particularly religion that recognizes a moral authority above man and state, with a harmless, mystical New Agey bullshit religion to pacify the proles.
BE NOT A CANCER ON THE EARTH —
LEAVE ROOM FOR NATURE —
LEAVE ROOM FOR NATURE
Translation: We are totally cool with it if 99% of humanity live in caves, so long as they pay their taxes to us and we never have to get our hands dirty.
Yeah, hey, this sounds like a real great utopia. Count me out.
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last is my favorite
The last one is my favorite...be not a cancer on the earth.
At every level of life, from the smallest to largest, there is a struggle to balance the motives of the individual with the motives of the group. In an individual animal, all of its individual cells need to balance their motivation to reproduce with the systemic integrity of the body as a whole. If one cell reproduces too much, a cancerous tumor results that chokes off other body parts, and that can result in the death of the animal.
As you look at the larger macrocosm of the earth's ecosystems, you can see the human population increasing exponentially in size as it chokes off other species with its concrete surfaces, industrial waste, and over consumption of resources.
The analogy of the human race with a cancer is perfect as the industrial revolution takes it toll on the earth.
We'd be wise to see nature for the way it actually is rather than the way we'd like to pretend it to be (religion) so that we could develop morals that promote the sustainability of life rather than a rapturous apocalypse.
We are just a part of the earth; we are not the be all to end all that religion tries to delude us into believing. There is no God, and people are just apes that are especially good at using tools. It'd be nice if we didn't wreck the whole place for all time with our insane selfishness.
Ron Paul is a Christian
And you're on a Ron Paul site knocking Christians, so it must be genetic in your case.
Chuck Baldwin
I just cast an early ballot for Chuck Baldwin this morning.
Isn't he a Christian?
I don't care. Good for him. His party has the best name ever...The Constitution Party.
All human beings are idiots...it's an intrinsic flaw of the way our brains work that we have enormous difficulty distinguishing fact from fantasy...which is why the rule of law is beautiful in a secular humanist way, which is entirely in keeping with Ron Paul's public performance.
I wouldn't know Chuck Baldwin from Adam, but he got my vote out of respect for the good doctor's judgment.
AJ is some sort of weird anti-Christian extremist
and many of us don't both reading his posts anymore because of that.
His anti-Christian bias is so extreme, that practically the only time he posts is to say something that belittles the faith that our good Doctor Paul holds so near and dear to his own heart.
Go figure.
- -
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good point!
Once the Ron Paul campaign wound down, about the only value of Daily Paul is for people to get off in their own favorite way...righteousness, cynicism, conspiracy spooks, chatta me girks, money gurus...whatever.
Where else can a Christian basher go for fish gullible enough to swallow the hook?
don't you have some wind to harness or something else to do
there in Wyoming?
Anyone who would participate in a forum for the sake of bashing others reveals their own internal lack of happiness with their decisions.
I am secure enough in who I am and what I believe that I do not have to bash atheists, deists, Baptists, Pentacostals, or any other person whose beliefs or ideology with which I disagree.
At the least it's a waste of time. At worst, it is just one symptom of a personal character defect that needs to be remedied.
- -
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yes!
We are harnessing the wind! Yes! We have several new wind farms nearby.
And yes, returning to DP is clearly a character defect for me, and I suspect it is for many others...and you know it. Without any special knowledge on the issue, I'd guess that maybe 60-80% of the Daily Paulers have something resembling an internet addiction.
Can I get a witness?
We're not trolls...we're just freaky internet addicts.
LOL. God bless your windmills!
Can I say that or will that make you mad? LOL.
Wind power = good. We have some wind power projects in Alaska, that I'd love to see expanded.
Perhaps I am among the freaky internet addicts. I suppose we are all freaks of one kind of another.
- -
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God
mad nations for a reason. I don't want to stand next to anyone wishing to change what god puts in order. God also put just laws in place of all the nations. There always seems to be a group of people who wish to live outside the law while they stand back and use the law to beat all the others over the head with it. It's an evil that mankind has had to put up with from the beginning of time. All societies should never let anyone get outside of the laws of the land.
yeah,......
the good is on the on other end of the stick, which means we get the shit end.
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"The real terrorist's are in this country and they are not planning to blow us up, but rather, take our money, our freedom, and our country."
the only good NWO is a dead
the only good NWO is a dead NWO!
Pat
BOHICA!!
There will be a good new world order
food freedom,one seed at a time.
When King JESUS comes back to rule and reign with all of His saints.
Let the howls of outrage commence.(I believe in King Jesus,and his plans to take over the world)
when is......
Jesus supposed to save us anyway?!?!??
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"The real terrorist's are in this country and they are not planning to blow us up, but rather, take our money, our freedom, and our country."
Jesus and stuff
The notion that someone will "come and save you FOR FREE and effortlessly" is a dream. Hasn't happened, won't happen. The question here is, how do we save ourselves. If someone pops up in the interim and does all the work well then great, in the meanwhile let's not plan for that.
You may also want to look up the plan for holographic projection of major world religions' icons from space, which is one of the scenarios surrounding blue beam.
Bottom line: Centralized
The biggest difference between us and the Socialists is that they don't have any confidence in humanity while we patriots do have confidence in humanity. We know that most people are good, they think most people are bad and dangerous.
Bottom line: Centralized power WILL always be corrupted. No "ifs" or "buts". It's a guarantee.
I always tell people that even if we had Ghandi, Mother Theresa, Einstein, and Jesus in control of our government, they won't be in power for ever. What would happen in 4, 8, 12 years? How can we guarantee that all that power will always be used for good?
Humanity is too complex to be centrally organized. Freedom works.
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While I agree...
...with your rightful suspicion of centralization, this statement:
"The biggest difference between us and the Socialists is that they don't have any confidence in humanity while we patriots do have confidence in humanity."
is exactly backwards. The socialists have ALL confidence in humanity, at least the part of humanity that is themselves, whereas the advocate of freedom understands that no one can be trusted with unchecked authority.
http://tikilounge.blogspo...
Socialists believe in using
Socialists believe in using force to compel mankind to be good, therefore they do not believe that men are innately good or they would just leave man to the free market in all areas of life. Freedom advocates believe that most men are good and goodness will prevail in a free market of truly competing interests. They do recognize that evil will prevail when government favors individuals or entitiies and so freedom advocates understand the importance of vigilance in defense of freedom and free markets.
I rarely see how the powerful abuse of such global agencies
is to be kept in check, and individual liberty preserved.
Viva the Constitution!
This is an example
of how the will sell the NWO as being a good thing. If it were benevolent, then it WOULD be a good thing, but that's not the reality of the NWO.
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Research the REAL driving force behind the NWO:
www.dailypaul.com/node/59...
You need to read his booklet
You need to read his booklet The New World Order along with The Open Conspriacy, then read the works by Sydney Olivier, William Clarke, Eleanor Marx, Annie Besant, Graham Wallas, J. A. Hobson, Sidney Webb, Beatrice Webb, George Bernard Shaw, Charles Trevelyan, J. R. Clynes, Harry Snell, Clementina Black, Edward Carpenter, Clement Attlee, Ramsay MacDonald, Emmeline Pankhurst,Walter Crane, Arnold Bennett, Sylvester Williams, H. G. Wells, Hugh Dalton, Rupert Brooke, Clifford Allen and Amber Reeves. Once you do that then you will see a far more complete picture of just what the Fabians have in mind; you will find a collectivist society managed and administrated by an elite group who are pefectly willing to show no mercy toward individuals who do not meet the standards of society...they words George Bernard Shaw used was the useless members of society would be "kindly executed".
http://www.1776solution.b...
Haven't you heard?
There are no men left in America. They sure like to whine on websites and blogs though. The computer killed courage.
"There can be only one permanent revolution - a moral one: The regeneration of the inner man."
—Tolstoy