Experienced DP tutor needed

Posted October 7th, 2008 by Iwillnotgoquietly

I've not been a member very long. I was already researching some of this stuff for about the last 8 mos or so when I came across this site. DP recommends to join, jump in, and ask q's. The more I try & dig for knowledge out there, the more I get confused. You guys seem to be well informed on the issues and I would appreciate any help I can get. I have several in my family and community who are interested in the C4L and what it stands for. That being said, 1 question I have is: I've seen some vids of RP on the floor saying that food was plowed under? or thrown into the ocean either during the Great Depression or during WWII? A quick link to this or literature to back that up would be appreciated. Also, in the extension of the Patriot Act (specifically executive order 11921-giving the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency the right to take over all financial institutions-passed/added in 06?) Did they already have the authority by this E.O. to do what was done in the recent Bailout bill? I'll begin there, thanks to anyone who can help.

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For a CURRENT version of the kind of insanity that destroys food

On October 7th, 2008 WRellim says:

Look up the "build houses... blow them up... then build them again" from PIMCO's idiot-in-chief, Bill Gross... who ACTUALLY WROTE THE FOLLOWING:

Make no mistake, the current conundrum that must be solved is: how to make the price of 120 million U.S. barns stop going down in price and then to make them go up again. That, however, is easier said than done. One of the wisest men I know has this serious but admittedly impractical solution: have the government buy one million new/unoccupied homes, blow them up, and then start all over again.

Which is little more than sheer insanity! (The same kind of idiocy would suggest that a chair manufacturer could/should double his profits by burning half of his factory's chair output! These people have ZERO experience in the real world, and have only studied "economics" from a distance, or as a "game" in Wall Street financing form... they have almost certainly never actually WORKED nor LABORED to "create" anything of lasting value.)

Via mises.org page:
http://blog.mises.org/arc...

And the original source (Bill Gross' very gross article) is here:
http://www.pimco.com/Left...

This is where short-sighted "Keynesian" economic thinking (if it can be called that) always leads to (and some would say ends up) -- coming up with ever more "creative" forms of destruction.

For those who truly understand what wealth and assets and REAL production are (i.e. "Austrian Economics") then such BS as the above from Bill Gross, or similar "broken window" and "disasters are good" statements clearly demonstrate that the Keynesians are marxist/humanist types who care NOTHING about the lives of people, nor the value of their labor or property.

Also realize that the Farm overproduction & low prices was

On October 7th, 2008 WRellim says:

in fact CAUSED by a previous "intervention" by the federal government (under Hoover) -- here is a relevant snip from the mises.org article:

And so the grandiose stabilization effort of the FFB failed ignominiously. Its loans encouraged greater production, adding to its farm surpluses, which overhung the market, driving prices down both on direct and on psychological grounds. The FFB thus aggravated the very farm depression that it was supposed to solve.

So, similar to the current housing situation, high prices caused by the Federal Reserve's falsely LOW interest rates which spread WAY too much credit money out which then pushed and encouraged too many CONSUMER level loans (versus supplier level in the Hoover administration), which caused massive overbuilding, speculation, misallocation of labor & resources and the ultimate "bust" that we are seeing now -- a government intervention CAUSED problem results in a nasty EFFECT that the government then claims is a "market crisis" which it claims then requires it to intervene again in an even more intrusive and disruptive fashion.

Thus we have multiple demonstrations of the disastrous results of centralized, socialized planning.

It's good you're inquisitive...

On October 7th, 2008 dlind says:

don't accept everything you read on the internet as truth.

A good place to start is Austrian Ecconomics. You can find more detailed stuff on it at the Mises Institute. I'd recommend that you stick with the net stuff initially, and then progressing to some real books if you like the philosophy and want to know more.

C4L = Campaign For Liberty (The PAC Ron Paul created to fight for issues he believes in, he started it shortly after his Campaign Ended)

'I've seen some vids of RP on the floor saying that food was plowed under? or thrown into the ocean either during the Great Depression or during WWII?'

Yah that's historical fact. The had all sorts of REALLY stupid programs, some of which we continue to this day... *Cough* Fannie Mae *Cough*

Anyway, go ahead and read up on the Great Depression in general, and the Agricultural Adjustment Act in specific (if you're interested in the things they did to fix food prices).

Also, in the extension of the Patriot Act (specifically executive order 11921

Executive Orders are different from Acts of Congress. Executive orders are issued by the President. Real legislation is proposed by the President or the legislature, passed by the legislature, then signed into law and enforced by the President. Executive orders initially were used for things like ordering more stationary, and instructing White House staff in day to day affairs... now a days they're used in a much 'broader' manner... to say the least.

But I digress. You can read the text of executive order 11921 here. I've not looked at it, and I'm not qualified to comment on it. For more information search wikipedia. (Everything is there... just make sure you keep your bullshit detector running at 110% power and you'll be fine)

And as to the Patriot Act... its a load crap... I don't feel like getting into specifics right now. We can save that conversation for another day.

Did they already have the authority by this E.O. to do what was done in the recent Bailout bill?

In my opinion Executive Orders aren't worth the paper they're printed on. Congress derives it's authority from one, and only one place: the Constitution. Now, they might try and argue that there are several clauses in the document that give them the authority to do it. The one that springs to mind is:

US Constitution - Section 8

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
...

Personally, nine times out of ten I call shenanigans when people use the 'General Welfare' clause to justify the actions of Government... but there could be Supreme Court cases that set the precedent for this sort of action being legit. (I'd imagine there would be... since we're sorta repeating the same crap that we did in the roarin' 30s)

At any rate it's late, I'm tired... this is a long post that no one will probably read... and we can debate the finer points of Article I Section 8 at a later date. The junk I've pointed you at should keep you busy for quite a while. (Lord knows I'm still going over stuff)

I read it

On October 7th, 2008 ProspectorSam says:

Good post.

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Join the Team! campaignforliberty.com

last night

On October 7th, 2008 Iwillnotgoquietly says:

on fox, a ticker went across saying that some Russian columnist was responsible for writing propaganda of 911 being an inside job, did anyone else see it?

Since you spotted this banner on Fox

On October 7th, 2008 Hannah2 says:

I would say, don't believe that on face value. Always ask first what is their (Fox's) intention on displaying anything. Usually to put up another smoke screen. Anyhow, recently the movie Zero was on television in Russia. This is about 911, produced by an Italian. Worthwhile watching. http://www.dailypaul.com/...

Perhaps Fox is distorting something to give the general American public who is still Fox glued some info to fuel antagonism towards the Russians. Who knows what their real intentions are.

On another

On October 6th, 2008 Iwillnotgoquietly says:

subject (sort of); I saw the Naomi Wolf vid on here and have seen several people saying they have the evidence and case against Bush to go forward. I saw someone say there was a lawyer who'd never lost a case in DC gonna prosecute them. Any updates on that, as far as a case for now OR after he leaves offc.? What about the senators and congressmen who didn't represent us as of late, are they gonna get prosecuted too?

do I win the dailypaul jeopardy?

On October 6th, 2008 photoshopwiz says:

~
I think we should start it...

here your video! (first one) ~

Ron Paul grills Ben Bernanke on the Fed’s desire to fix prices
http://waronyou.com/2008/...

you absolutely do

On October 6th, 2008 Iwillnotgoquietly says:

win. I knew I wasn't that far gone yet. RP owned Bernanke here! I was raised by grandparents who lived hard during the years RP was talking about here and they told me stories that haunt me daily. I've farmed with them my whole life until I lost the last of them on Christmas Day 07. I'm thankful God has taken them before they would've had to endure it all over again.

You guys are

On October 6th, 2008 Iwillnotgoquietly says:

great & fast. Some of these replies were exactly what I was looking for! (Some here are perverted assholes.) I'm seriously trying to learn about something that directly affected my family, then and now. Thanks to the serious sincere posters of help! Yes photoshopwiz, I saw a RECENT floor speech RP gave where he says "the crops were plowed under as people were starving". Can't find the link yet on the vid though. Still looking.

Fear not the DP pervs

On October 7th, 2008 sistagirl86 says:

They're really pretty fun...

you'll get used to the

On October 6th, 2008 krmaya says:

you'll get used to the perverted assholes they're actually pretty entertaining at times and harmless...

or bored.

On October 6th, 2008 oruval says:

Find out if you have a local militia - http://www.uaff.us/

thanks

On October 7th, 2008 Iwillnotgoquietly says:

for this link, 1 film on this site starts out with the John Birch Society, 2 nights ago I watched RP on revolution radio broadcast, JBS? or something like that speaking about all this. From what I'm understanding is that EVERY president has abused his powers over Congress for war purposes since FDR?

Here ya go

On October 6th, 2008 fanofwalt says:

From The Depression and New Deal Years, 1929-1939 (from AcademicAmerican.com) --

Under President Hoover:

The income tax was relatively new, and government revenues were ample for most needs. But the burden of caring for the unemployed and unemployable soon became so large that local, state, and national government, let alone charitable organizations, lacked funds to deal forcefully with the problem. And as wages and incomes fell, raising taxes hardly seemed the solution.

Sound familiar?

To make things worse, the middle of the United States went through an era known as the dust bowl; as farmlands dried up, primitive irrigation projects were unable to keep the crops growing. Farmers discovered that with the falling prices they could not earn enough from the sale of their produce to cover the costs of getting it to market, so farmers burned their corn to keep warm, slaughtered their livestock for their own food, and dumped milk in the streets.

And thanks to President Roosevelt, we had this:

Under the leadership of Agriculture Secretary Henry Wallace, Congress pulled out all the stops to help farmers, passing the Agricultural Adjustment Act, the Emergency Farm Mortgage Act, and the Farm Credit Act. The acts provided for the elimination of surplus crops, establishment of parity prices, and the reduction of crop production by paying farmers to allow land to lie fallow. In the process, animals were slaughtered and crops plowed under, which Secretary Wallace himself called a “shocking commentary on our civilization.”

Nice crash course in the Depression and New Deal at that site.

found this ron paul economic speech ~

On October 6th, 2008 photoshopwiz says:

~
It's the same destructive strategy that government tried during the Great Depression: prop up prices at all costs. The Depression went on for over a decade. On the other hand, when liquidation was allowed to occur in the equally devastating downturn of 1921, the economy recovered within less than a year.

This point cannot be overemphasized. What is happening is not totally unlike the price fixing that occurred in the Great Depression era when crops were being plowed under (by order of the federal government) such that higher prices for food could be had (they thought this was an appropriate mechanism to fight deflation). Prices must be allowed to fall (or rise) to their natural level, else you cannot have a free market as you have price distortions.

http://www.usmessageboard...