Obama Wants Immediate US Surge in Afghanistan
Submitted by JKap on Fri, 10/24/2008 - 11:26
Obama Wants Immediate US Surge in Afghanistan
theglobeandmail.com — WASHINGTON — Senator Barack Obama said Wednesday he would order a surge of U.S. troops – perhaps 15,000 or more – to Afghanistan as soon as he reached the White House.
[...]
Digg here: http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Obama_Wants_Immediate_US_S...
----
As I have said before, we have some important choices to make in the 2008 general election when voting for either Barack H. Obama or John S. McCain.
"War" in Afghanistan or "war" in Afghanistan, a $700 Billion tax-payer dollar line of revolving credit to "bailout" Wall Street Welfare Queens or a $700 Billion tax-payer dollar line of revolving credit to "bailout" Wall Street Welfare Queens, the FISA Amendments Act granting King George W "authority" to spy on the good and decent people of America without warrant or probable cause or the FISA Amendments Act granting King George W "authority" to spy on the good and decent people of America without warrant or probable cause, the Defense Authorization Act of 2007 granting King George W "authority" to declare martial law for nondescript "other conditions" and use the National Guard as a police force within the United States without the consent of Congress or the respective Governors of each state or the Defense Authorization Act of 2007 granting King George W "authority" to declare martial law for nondescript "other conditions" and use the National Guard as a police force within the United States without the consent of Congress or the respective Governors of each state, $700 Billion-plus in funding for the U.S. Military/mercenary occupation of Iraq or $700 Billion-plus in funding for the U.S. Military/mercenary occupation of Iraq, and lastly, the "Patriot" Act or the "Patriot" Act.
I think the choice is crystal clear: O'Cane/McBomba '08
It Must Be My Perverse Brain
But I seem to remember a laundry detergent named SURGE from back many years ago.
Whenever I hear politicians talk about a "surge" my mind conjures up this image of a countrywide mountain of suds engulfing everything.
Obama is self destructing
I notice on youtube and digg all kinds of people are abandoning Obama in favour of Nader
FISA was the main wake up call Pakistan attack and Iran comments AIPAC speech and now this....
http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/09/10/statement-to-ron-pa...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57925480@N00/2660779139/sizes/l/
___________________
Jake Towne✌Stop The War✌Money Bomb March 29
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/128960
And, He Also Wants To Be President
And, cannot produce a provable birth certificate. How important are his words?
bump
lets spread the word to dems so they switch to Nader
http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/09/10/statement-to-ron-pa...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57925480@N00/2660779139/sizes/l/
___________________
Jake Towne✌Stop The War✌Money Bomb March 29
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/128960
Dugg
Healthnut4freedom
"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths." Proverbs 3:5,6
Healthnut4freedom
"Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct thy paths." Proverbs 3:5,6
I'm in agreement
I'm in agreement with Obama on this one. Bin Laden's detritus must be crushed, or we will have bus bombings and football stadium bombings, resulting in a police state none of us would be prepared for. I'm still in favor of getting the US the hell out of Iraq.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
Detritus?
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/detritus
If we only had his detritus to deal with, we could just come home.
Hey FreeJess, have you read "Dying to Win"
Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism by Robert Pape (It's one of the most important books on "Ron Paul's reading list")
Seriously, it goes into detail about the whole suicide terrorism stuff, a real "paradigm" changer.
I'd also suggest watching the excellent series of videos (BBC documentary) called "The Power of Nightmares" -- you can watch it on YouTube...
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O18HhmMamI
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8RLOvVabpk
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_C0wrqJ8BQ
etc. (The rest of the sections are all on youtube, just search on "The Power of Nightmares" or go the the SageProphet channel)
Thanks for the links
I will definitely look into them, as I respect your opinion.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
I don't necessarily agree 100% with everything in the BBC thing.
But it is definitely a thought-provoking and interesting piece (actually 3 separate "sections" but broken down into many more on Youtube because of their 10 minute per piece limit).
And since I know a bit of the history of it, and the respect the other work done by the guy (Adam Curtis) who made it... well, it deserves consideration.
BTW, it's one of the few pieces I know of that actually goes into the history of places like Afghanistan and gives a pretty solid overview of it, no holds barred.
And likewise the book by Dr. Pape is excellent -- Ron Paul himself said (at a briefing in Chicago I attended last fall) that he originally read it thinking he was going to REFUTE what the author wrote, and after digging and checking on the man's data, found himself not only unable to do so, but having to change his own thinking about "al qaeda" and the whole terrorism picture.
Thank you, I will dig into
Thank you, I will dig into this myself.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
you oviously
don't agree with Ron Paul and the deffinition of non-interventionism ...
the longer our presence remains in other nations - countries the longer
there will always be threat of bus bombs and ladies blowing up etc...
(we are sitting ducks over there anyway) We should go to war when
we are attacked immediately and get it done and over and come back.
Terror is a tactic - it can't be found. We all have our opinions - thats great.
Mine is if McCain and or Obama want to keep our military anywhere in
the world - that is bad policy .... I have no faith or respect for McBama!
First of all, you are right
First of all, you are right about the "War on Terror". It's a wrong-headed policy, like a "war against drugs" or a "war against poverty". None of these things is solvable, nor should they be attempted to be solved as a literal war. You may as well say we are now involved in a "war against fear".
Secondly, it is an impossibility to simply mobilize a G.I. Joe-styled counter-attack force aimed like a laser at any number of threats that may be eventually carried out against the American people. That's just a fantasy. Defense is not like going to the grocery store, getting milk and returning to home base.
Thirdly, the war in Afghanistan was authorized by Congress.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
WRONG
Congress has not declared war, as is the only constitutional way for the United States to engage in "war", since World War II. The Congress simply does not have the authority to "authorize" war or delegate their constitutional powers to the President.
The "war" in Afghanistan is illegitimate, illegal, and unconstitutional.
----
Support The Feal Good Foundation. Watch "Dust to Dust" and "Dust to Deceit" to learn about the ongoing 9/11 Holocaust of dying 9/11 First Responders.
----
"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy
Technically, the war
Technically, the war in Afghanistan is legal and constitutional. Whether or not it is "legitimate" is debatable.
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=10...
I don't make this stuff up.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
LOL
Now you've got two strikes against you, troll. You agree with King Hussein on sending more troops to Afghanistan and now you claim that the "war" in Afghanistan is constitutional.
Either you are uninformed, stupid, or a disinfo troll. I'm tired of monkeying around with people like yourself spreading disinformation.
----
Support The Feal Good Foundation. Watch "Dust to Dust" and "Dust to Deceit" to learn about the ongoing 9/11 Holocaust of dying 9/11 First Responders.
----
"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy
what if?
bin laden is a straw man?
remember the game RISK?
look at the map:
china
pakistan
india
all with nukes coming out their behind
besides, eradicating 'al queda' is like eradicating HIV
it's a virus-like entity -- it can't be done conventionally.
taking out bin laden would be like hacking down google's servers to dismantle the internet. it may knock a good portion of it out, but it will just move somewhere else.
this is a good site to understand 4th generation warfare a little more:
http://globalguerrillas.typepad.com/globalguerrillas/2004/05...
the empire is coming to an end...
What other parts of the American Empire do you want to maintain, since you're on board for Obomba's "war" on terror and prefecture of Afghanistan?
----
Support The Feal Good Foundation. Watch "Dust to Dust" and "Dust to Deceit" to learn about the ongoing 9/11 Holocaust of dying 9/11 First Responders.
----
"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy
Wow. A supporter of Empire Occupation and intervention
and Bush's war on terror is right here on daily paul.
Wow. I'm speechless that someone actually believes we need to be more afraid of the "terrorists" over in a poor middle eastern country than in our own government.
Some of us even believe that Osama bin Laden was just a scapegoat for 9/11 and was conveniently never found. Isn't it a little late for Obomba to be making noises about why he wants to hit Afghanistan, other than to bump up his popularity as our "savior"????
DIEBOLD: "If Your Vote Counts, Then We're Not Doing Our Job."
Read my other response,
Read my other response, since you apparently don't understand the legal role of the military.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
Pleas enlighten us...
What is the "legal role of the military" in your unbridled opinion?
By the way, thank you for bumping this important thread exposing Obomba as the globalist warmonger that he is.
----
Support The Feal Good Foundation. Watch "Dust to Dust" and "Dust to Deceit" to learn about the ongoing 9/11 Holocaust of dying 9/11 First Responders.
----
"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy
You do understand that the
You do understand that the US has a right to defense, yes? You also understand the President is the Commander in Chief, as proscribed by the Constitution? What part of that is unclear to you? Do you believe the purpose of the military is entirely ornamental? What exactly does defending the US mean to you? Stopping at the very edge of our country after an attack has occurred, like a Bugs Bunny cartoon?
You may want to examine some of your presuppositions more closely. These things are never so black and white.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
I don't want to start a running post by post fight but answer
this please. If the goal of "bin laden" & "al queada" is to attack the Americans here in the USA, then why haven't they, in the 5-6 years we have been in the two countries, left them and come here and attacked, when most all of our armed forces and national guard is 1/2 a world away?
Why would they keep all their forces there instead of coming to the USA and attacking when we are truly at our weakest?
Could it be they don't give a rats butt about attacking us, they just want the occupiers out of their lands?
Thank you Dr. Paul for making my act on what I already knew was right.
Tea Party People--Folks that want to be on the winning team, and just so happen to think that the republicans have cuter helmets and jerseys. Don't matter if the two teams always tie to them, they KNOW they really won.
They exist, and because they
They exist, and because they do, they must be destroyed. They've been tied up overseas for 6 years, that's why there have been no further incidents.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
Why not get on a plane or a ship & come over here?
They can't spare one or two guys to come over and do their dirty work over here. They must not be much of a threat if in 6 years not one of them had enough sense to realize we are completely buck naked as for as being able to defend our own shore since almost our whole military is over there.
So the very fact that some folks in Afghanistan exist is enough to warrant them being dead?
Thank you Dr. Paul for making my act on what I already knew was right.
Tea Party People--Folks that want to be on the winning team, and just so happen to think that the republicans have cuter helmets and jerseys. Don't matter if the two teams always tie to them, they KNOW they really won.
You're wrong. The majority
You're wrong. The majority of the military was sent illegally into Iraq. They could no longer fulfill their duties.
I'm not in favor of randomly attacking Afghanis, sir. If we have military intelligence that can pinpoint the attackers and their network, they must be annhiliated. If tracking these people down means working with other nations to do so, then we should.
Ron Paul in 2001 said:
"The terrorist attacks on New York and Washington are not quite so simple, but they are similar. These attacks required funding, planning and inspiration from others. But the total number of people directly involved had to be relatively small in order to have kept the plans thoroughly concealed. Twenty accomplices, or even a hundred could have done it. But there's no way thousands of people knew and participated in the planning and carrying out of this attack. Moral support expressed by those who find our policies offensive is a different matter and difficult to discover. Those who enjoyed seeing the U.S. hit are too numerous to count and impossible to identify. To target and wage war against all of them is like declaring war against an idea or sin.
The predominant nationality of the terrorists was Saudi Arabian. Yet for political and economic reasons, even with the lack of cooperation from the Saudi government, we have ignored that country in placing blame. The Afghan people did nothing to deserve another war. The Taliban, of course, is closely tied to bin Laden and al-Qaeda, but so are the Pakistanis and the Saudis."
I already voted for Ron Paul, so what of it?
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
Free Jesse the point I was trying to make is
It is a made up war. Both of them, Iraq most definitely, and after 6 years or so if they can't find Bin Laden in an area about the size of Texas, then evidently they aren't really trying, and therefore the pretext of going may have been legitimate, but since they aren't letting the guys on the ground do their job then, it is a farce.
I respectfully decline any further engagement with you on this topic, since it seems you enjoy argument more than fact.
Thank you Dr. Paul for making my act on what I already knew was right.
Tea Party People--Folks that want to be on the winning team, and just so happen to think that the republicans have cuter helmets and jerseys. Don't matter if the two teams always tie to them, they KNOW they really won.
You have a valid point of
You have a valid point of view, ODell. I don't want to come off as argumentative on this point.
I fully understand the inherent risks of enabling the military and the government with the tools of fear and uncertainty to expand their powers. I get it.
On the other hand, how do you view the reality of today, with the ultimate goal of achieving a more "humble" US role in the world.
I'm pretty sure I want the same thing you do, but Al-Queda (whatever it's condition today) would be slower to agree with both of us.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
All right you got me to post again on this
I believe we have no business in any other country unless we have been attacked, and in so much as we couldn't trace it to a specific country we should have, and would have been correct to, treat them as Jefferson did the Barbary pirates. Go in, get them, get out. Not become an occupation force and state that our goal is to give Afghanistan a new democratic government.
I further believe if any of this "war on terror" was legitimate we would have our military based on our own borders instead of spread out in 170 odd different countries.
If a guy in Afghanistan wants to behead another guy, on a personnel level I am bothered by it, but do I have a right to interfere with their fight, no I don't, and nether does the country as a whole militarily.
To put it another way, if they want to act a fool over there it is none of our business, if they bring it over here, get them, get them quick, and be done with it. How they run their lives our their own lands is none of our business.
And, us making things our business that aren't does nothing more than incite folks around the world to want to hurt us. Let them be.
Thank you Dr. Paul for making my act on what I already knew was right.
Tea Party People--Folks that want to be on the winning team, and just so happen to think that the republicans have cuter helmets and jerseys. Don't matter if the two teams always tie to them, they KNOW they really won.
I'm in complete agreement with you
"I believe we have no business in any other country unless we have been attacked, and in so much as we couldn't trace it to a specific country we should have, and would have been correct to, treat them as Jefferson did the Barbary pirates. Go in, get them, get out. Not become an occupation force and state that our goal is to give Afghanistan a new democratic government."
I don't disagree with anything you've stated.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
Have you seen them with your own eyes?
What were they tied up with? U.S. Dollar bills?
_________________________________
DIEBOLD: "If Your Vote Counts, Then We're Not Doing Our Job."
Don't be pedantic. If you
Don't be pedantic. If you want to see Al-Qaeda with your own two eyes, join the military. I don't expect to personally fulfill all of the obligations of the government and neither do you. I don't have the power to "lay and collect taxes" as Congress does, as written in the Constitution, and neither do you.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
Just Come Home
----
Support The Feal Good Foundation. Watch "Dust to Dust" and "Dust to Deceit" to learn about the ongoing 9/11 Holocaust of dying 9/11 First Responders.
----
"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy
I believe Ron was talking
I believe Ron was talking about Iraq.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
I don't care what you "believe"
We should end all framed-up, engineered "wars" and overseas empire as soon as possible to preserve the American Republic.
Most denizens of the Daily Paul would agree with me wholeheartedly--and so would Ron Paul. You don't know what you're talking about. Ron Paul opposes the foreign policy invterventionism espoused by the twin spear-carriers of the War Party, O'Cane and McBomba.
----
Support The Feal Good Foundation. Watch "Dust to Dust" and "Dust to Deceit" to learn about the ongoing 9/11 Holocaust of dying 9/11 First Responders.
----
"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy
I don't and never have
I don't and never have supported the Iraq war. It was an event designed and called for to appease corporate and foreign interests.
Also, it's not considered "interventionism" when you are in pursuit of your attacker.
Let's just see how Wikipedia defines it:
"Interventionism is a term for a policy of non-defensive (proactive) activity undertaken by a nation-state, or other geo-political jurisdiction of a lesser or greater nature, to manipulate an economy or society. The most common applications of the term are for economic interventionism (a state's intervention in its own economy), and foreign interventionism (a state's intervention in the affairs of another nation as part of its foreign policy)."
So, to sum up... pursuing your attacker is not interventionism.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
Somebody else want to handle this one?
I'm getting tired of the trollish behavior by "FreeJesseVentura".
----
Support The Feal Good Foundation. Watch "Dust to Dust" and "Dust to Deceit" to learn about the ongoing 9/11 Holocaust of dying 9/11 First Responders.
----
"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy
Remember this?
Maybe this will refresh your memory?
http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=10...
This action in Afghanistan was authorized by Congress, as described in the Constitution. The founding fathers were not attacked by Al-Queda, we were. But they had the foresight and intelligence to provide us with very clear instructions regarding our defense and declarations of war.
..................
"The main thing that I learned about conspiracy theory is that conspiracy theorists actually believe in a conspiracy because that is more comforting. The truth of the world is that it is chaotic..." —Alan Moore
Funny but sad
I find this funny because I have gotten so much rhetoric from people who are against the war and are all about peace, and say they're voting for Obama because they believe McCain wants to start World War 3. All these naive voters are going to get screwed over big time. Not that McCain would screw them over any less, though.
But it's sad because people say they hate politicians and don't trust them, but every four years they buy into the same crap anyway. Happens every time. After Obama wins and then shows his true colors, America is going to experience a severe emotional gutting and we will then as a country be officially demoralized... If that's not the case already.
----------------------------------
Bumper sticker equipment
DuraLabel 4 TTP
----------------------------------
Bumper sticker equipment
DuraLabel Supplies
very sad
but perhaps necessary.
just like the conservatives of us needed a rude awakening.
now it's time for the liberals of us.
unfortunately, our awakening is on the bones of innocents.
and this is what we must awake from more than anything.
no (wo)man is an island.
Jeepers
I wonder what role that billion dollar poppy crop plays.
some estimates are
as high as 500 Billion$ crop
http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/09/10/statement-to-ron-pa...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57925480@N00/2660779139/sizes/l/
___________________
Jake Towne✌Stop The War✌Money Bomb March 29
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/128960
I just posted another thread on this
did not see your thread in time
http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/09/10/statement-to-ron-pa...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57925480@N00/2660779139/sizes/l/
___________________
Jake Towne✌Stop The War✌Money Bomb March 29
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/128960
consider this --
this is not about afghanistan.
this is about pakistan.
and ultimately china.
"DJC Says:
baychev,
The Washington Consensus retains the hopelessly deranged concept that the Chinese economy will collapse without US Consumer demand. Somehow the US Consumer is doing the average Chinese migrant worker a favor exchanging fiat US Dollars printed in unlimited quantity by the Bernanke Fed for tangible manufactured products of “real economic industrial wealth”. Under US Dollar hegemony enforced by global Pentagon military power projection and control of strategic energy resources especially Middle East oil reserves, the US Consumer gets to consume for free and the Chinese gets to work for free. While the US still retains some comparative advantage in high-tech products, those exports are mostly embargoed to China under existing National Security regulations. The Cold War with the Soviet Union may be over, so China is now designated by US Intelligence Agencies as the pre-eminent national security threat in order to boost the defense budget for new stealth bombers and missiles. Nothing could be further from the truth that the current global financial architecture benefits the average Chinese."
bump
digg it people
http://www.votenader.org/blog/2008/09/10/statement-to-ron-pa...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/57925480@N00/2660779139/sizes/l/
___________________
Jake Towne✌Stop The War✌Money Bomb March 29
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/128960
All those dumb Obama supporters are being completely duped
and they STILL refuse to see it. Obama is great for the neoconservatives because all the democrats have stars in their eyes and can see him do no wrong. Meanwhile, he's expanding the empire and taking away more of our rights.
----------
"We will never give up. We will never give in." - Dr. Ron Paul
----------
"We will never give up. We will never give in." - Dr. Ron Paul
People want justice,as do
People want justice,as do i,but the way there going about is ignorant.The group responsible is "Al-Qaeda" not a country.A better way would have been to infiltrate the group with a small squad,trained to do so.
Once again the majority accepts the decisions made without question.Guess who pays for it?
THE FEDERAL RESERVE - Americas OVERLORD
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value --- zero."
Voltaire (1694-1778)
Sorry, I have to disagree
The group responsible is "CIA".
----
Support The Feal Good Foundation. Watch "Dust to Dust" and "Dust to Deceit" to learn about the ongoing 9/11 Holocaust of dying 9/11 First Responders.
----
"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy
Isn't it remarkable
that the "police" are attacking the peaceful while communities have to cut local police forces for lack of money.
They are training for Martial Law while many neighborhoods go unprotected - especially the minorities.
If Obama is elected, we had all better prepare for "blow-back" !
Give this to all of your "liberal" friends
----
Support The Feal Good Foundation. Watch "Dust to Dust" and "Dust to Deceit" to learn about the ongoing 9/11 Holocaust of dying 9/11 First Responders.
----
"...a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people." -John F. Kennedy