Time to Leave?
At what point do we give up on our country? Maybe these people want to be oppressed. The Chinese have been oppressed for millennia.
This financial collapse is coming, it's a done deal. When? That's the question. In 8 days, November 15, they're having a world central bankers meeting. This is where they decide our fate.
I'm getting quite nervous about being here. Within the first year of the last two president's terms, the trade center was attacked, and I work 2 blocks away. Now maybe I should leave NYC. But where do I go? I like the idea of Texas. They are somewhat self-sufficient, don't really need the federal government. They have farms, oil and the people are armed. I got to tell you, I'd feel a lot safer if it were my neighbors who had the guns instead of my government. The only problem is these tax rates amount to nothing more than servitude.
I don't understand, if I grow some wheat and trade it to you for some beef why do they get a cut of each? This to me is theft, they take it by force. I, in good conscience, can't give them this money. The only thing I've gotten in return is Infringement on my rights. If I uproot my family, I'm breaking the chains. So i have to leave the country. Where do I go?
I used to think Australia or Switzerland because they're self sufficient and well-positioned geographically to avoid war. But with their tax rates that's just switching masters. I think the best way to avoid big government is with a smaller population and good geography, The Caribbean or Central America might work. Costa Rica? Caymans? US Virgin Islands? There are a lot of tax breaks in the USVI. Federal tax rates are around 5%. Plus you can remain a full citizen. It sounds good so far.
Here on the other hand?
This election was a debacle! Forget about Obama. He's one man. I voted for an umpteen number of people. Nobody knows anything about them. They just sneak these guys in through the front door. Whoever has more money wins. At this point I don't feel like trying to educate them, the sheeple get what they get, maybe they want it. We should lead by example, show them we don't need government. If we had 50k-100k hard-working, freedom-loving people invest they're savings and time in another place, without our government, we'd get by. Food grows down there. You don't need so much oil, because the weather is perfect. I'm really considering it.
The schooling of my children is a concern. I have a wife and three children, my oldest is in first grade. Home-schooling? I don't know anyone who's been home-schooled. In theory it sounds so much better. My knowledge of American history from public school amounts to nothing more than memorizing dates, mostly of wars. Math and science are tough to teach. But without property taxes, we could afford to chip in with our neighbors and hire teachers for certain subjects and some group classes. My wife can teach them to read and write much better than some government run school. Can I sell my wife on it?
Tough Decision.
output
Texas is the best option in the US
And Austin, Texas is the most open minded city. There are many Ron Paulers and many in local government are sympathetic to to Ron Paul. For example RPers got elected recently to the Water District in order to get Fluoride out of the water.
Austin is home to Whole Foods and has Central Market (Similar to Whole Foods)
Austin has great lake culture that makes folks from California feel like home.
Austin is very multicultural with good like minded people from all states. Lots from California.
Austin home prices are very reasonable compared to other areas across the US and did not run up crazy a few years ago therefore being very stable.
Austin is great for Kids with a very comfortable climate.
There are great areas which are away from downtown and away from traffic such as the Lake Travis area. These areas are close enough to downtown if needed but just far enough to be comfortable.
Texas is doing very well financially with NO STATE Income Taxes, Home prices are very reasonable
My Family moved from California to Austin, Tx and have found it very comfortable. Great schools, great resources and like minded people. When moving into our area we were greeted by 7 out of 8 Californian closest Neighbors
Plus as others have mentioned Texans are armed to the teeth and would likely succeed from the USA before becoming a tyranny.
I have a cousin who married
I have a cousin who married a man that went to college in Austin, Texas. He told me and my family a lot of good things about the city.
I could move to Austin
Don't forget the music. There is no where to listen to a live band around here. Not THE most important thing, but important for the spirit all the same. What is the weather like there?
I WISH texas we leave the union!
I live in Arkansas. texas is a police state. they are absolutely ridiculous about thier seat belt law enforcement. not to mention Waco, FLDS DHS and JFK. we are not much better here, but texas is really bad.
" the important thing is to never stop questioning, curiousity, has it's own reason for existing..
Albert Einstien
I made my choice
I chose to leave. I too have 3 young children and I have grave concerns about them remaining in the U.S. (They are all boys... Though it looks like when the draft comes it will be girls as well.)
I chose Singapore, as my wife is a Singaporean and we have extended family there.
Make no mistake, it is an authoritarian country. No question.
However, it is less risky (in my opinion) than the US:
1) It does not have massive government debt;
2) It does not have massive entitlements (and the massive expectations for same);
3) While it has a draft, it DOES NOT send forces to kill others on their sand...
4) It has a rigorous education system;
5) Starting your own business is considered to be a social good, such that nearly everyone does something on the side;
6) Taxes are very low
There are other possitives as well... See Jim Rogers on the subject on youtube...
HOWEVER, please don't see this as a sales pitch! There are plenty of issues which are negative... As I said, I have extended family here now, so that was a big issue.
At the same time, until the US defaults on it's debt, I don't want my children subject to having to pay it. Nor will I have them subject to needless killing of others or being killed in some senseless conflict.
No doubt there are plenty who will call me a "traitor". But you don't know me, and even if you did I am not on this earth to follow your views. Given what I have learned [Much from Dr. Paul] I have decided this is best for my children.
Unfortunately there are no do overs...
Good luck! Phil
homeschooling is the best
homeschooling is the best decision I have ever made. I continue to receive negative comments from family and friends and the deprogramming is still in process. Learn to trust yourself and encourage your children to trust their own innate ability to learn. The world around us is a true classroom. Do what you want. But feeling like leaving could just indicate a time for a change in the very neighborhood you live in. It takes guts to stay and stand up to the Barrakracy thats coming. But doing just that is perhaps the best lesson you could ever teach your children. Besides the grass is always greener is just not always true.....your just as much a target there as you are here...........
"Ideas have consequences." Ron Paul
ABOLISH the corrupt Dept of Education.
Your kids will know MUCH more about government, freedom, the constitution, American history etc.
The Dept of Education was designed to dumb down the populace and raise more sheeples watching "Dancing with the Stars."
While the country dances the Central planners are taking over.
Homeschooling? No problem!
You don't need to learn how to teach math or science. Here is the best curriculum that children teach themselves. Study their website carefully:
http://www.robinsoncurric...
Leave?
I don't know if I am ready to end my fight of 30 yrs. This movement has cured my apathy and gives me hope knowing that there are people out there that still hold our constitution as supreme law.. The technology scares me though. Never before in human history has a tyranny been this close to this kind of technology. I am not leaving but I am grabbing a back door into Belize. Look into it.
A REAL patriot - leaving? Never!
The founding fathers didnt run away to the virgin Islands when King George applied a little pressure. Why would you?
The states are the only "free" nations in the world. Take a stand HERE or abandon your liberty forever.
"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!"
Patrick Henry - March 23, 1775
A gang like any other
We have a gang problem. Like any other psychopathic aggressor (or stalker) they will continue to keep bullying and taking until the victim stands up and defends him/herself or they themselves fail by attrition (which is a distinct possibility).
Furthermore, opting to join the gang to "change it from within" will not solve the problem because the psychopaths are firmly entrenched at the top. Even if one particular criminal group is successfully overthrown, another will come to take its place and capture the hierarchy. Remember that the enemy are master manipulators who have structured the system in their favor. Worse yet, history shows that they will always find willing accomplices for their crimes and intimidation.
This is the fundamental problem. I believe the first order of business is personal economic secession - wherever you may be located geographically. Minimize your exposure, change jobs to lower your salary or engage in direct barter to the point where no tax is due. Homeshcool your children. Pay down your debt and keep your savings as gold or silver and out of the system. Rent instead of own. Work on self-reliance, and become skilled in self-defense. Work on building a trusted support network and quietly prepare.
Their parasitic system will fail, it's only a matter of time. Just realize, that we are fighting an aggressive and particularly vicious criminal "gang" - but a gang like any other. Fly below the radar, avoid conflict, but always work to reduce their funding where possible, and work on outlasting them; be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves.
As a word of encouragement, many of the Baltic states probably never dreamed of successfully separating from the Russian empire.
-LF
Govt is the throne of evil
If you choose to feed the beast via income taxes (out of fear of imprisonment),
then leaving would be the moral thing to do.
Else, you are knowingly financing evil itself.
Leave for where? Is my question....
Starting over in a foreign country would be daunting to say the least. Even stating over in a another state would be difficult.
My suggestion is to be ready and self-sufficient in the event of a complete collapse. Food, shelter, protection are the keys.
Till then, live your life as you have been.
I may not know the truth, but I know when I'm being lied to...
You can run but you can't hide
The problem won't go away and running from it will only reduce the collective will to resist it. I say stay and continue the good fight.
"Americans need to take a Democrap and wipe it's Republican from the history books of this once great Nation"
-Concerned Citizen
Agreed
Agreed
Ultimately sometimes I think
Ultimately sometimes I think Secession is the only long-term solution.
We need to support Secession movements in New Hampshire, and Vermont.
Tracy
And the fledgling state of Jefferson
There is another movement in the west as well:
http://www.jeffersonstate...
I believe as people wake up (the remnant) and the empire's economic situation deteriorates there is a real chance of success...
Here's hoping,
-LF
I agree
Thank you Dr. Paul for making me act on what I already knew was right.
Check this out
www.progressoheights.com.
I'm sticking with Ron Paul
after everything he has done and still is doing by awakening the
country to why we are in the mess we are in, there is no way
I am leaving.
Ron Paul will continue the fight along with all the patriots
who are speaking out and when Obamanomics keeps the economy
collapsing you will see a major uprising in our country
and it will be for the good of our country.
Americans live on hope and Obama struck that nerve, and when
those who support him find out that hope was for the worse then
the message of liberty will prevail.
C= Corporations
H= Hypocrisy
A= Arrogance
N= Neo-Cons
G= Greed
E= Elite
This is what America voted for now we fight back at
any socialism or communism that our representatives vote for
LOUD and CLEAR !
Not panic, just a discussion of options
This is a legitimate topic for discussion, as we may actually begin to see more and more of our liberties vanish. We all have different circumstances, and are at different points in our lives. Those of you with families to school and support are going to take different things into consideration than would a single woman in her mid 50's with no family around, or a retired couple with health issues. As always, there is no one pat answer that fits all. Given what is happening, you can't blame people for considering the option of leaving. After all, those who saw the warning signs early and chose to leave Germany were the ones who survived. When it became obvious that there was a serious problem, it was too late for many of them to get out. So, to have a contingency plan is not unreasonable. I like the idea of a foot in two different countries. I love this country and leaving would only be a last resort.
Funny, a year ago July, I bought a book at the Boulder Bookstore in Colorado entitled "Getting Out, Your Guide to Leaving America", which was on the shelf of "Boulder's Top 10 Bestsellers". It is a book which lists details of most countries in the world, their visa requirements, government structure, job opportunities, climate, tax rate, etc. I'm sure that it was in the top 10 because the local liberals were frightened with regards to Bush and his "doctrine". Now, no doubt, they feel safe and secure and full of hope, while we realize that, rather than relax, we have additional reason to be alarmed. From reading the book, I zeroed in on Panama, Costa Rica, Croatia and Brazil, all for different reasons. This book may be helpful to you in finding the answers to what options fit you best. The author is Mark Ehrman.
As someone who grew up in the 50's/60's, when the U.S. seemed to be in its prime, with nothing but a rosy future and security ahead, it is almost unfathomable that I am sitting here considering these possibilities with you all. Sometimes I feel that I must be insane, for surely this cannot be my country. It is truly surreal.
I visit this site 3-4 times a day to touch base with what feels like my "real" family, otherwise I am afraid I'll have to go on Prozac! Thanks to you all for being here as a touchstone, all of the input is very much appreciated.
Thanks, for the
info. I can relate to your comments. I consider the Daily Paul Family as well. Take care out there.
I’ll tell you right now…
If I had a family of my own, I'd very likely move to Norway with my gold.
But as long as I'm an unmarried guy, I'm staying here to fight for what's mine.
By the way, anyone can carry firearms here in Iowa; open or concealed.
--Cliff, Sioux City, Iowa
9/11 was not the start of our downfall. It was Waco.
Yeah, Texans like to brag about how 'armed to the teeth' they are. Well, where were they (and we) when push came to shove/assult/murder? We all acted like cowards and simply watched while our government went ape-shit on her citizens. Montana, where were you all when the government insurgents invaded Elizabeth Clare Prophet's Church to steal all their arms and indict her husband? Thanks to shows like the 'FBI', people think the federal government can operate anywhere it pleases. Not so, if you trust the Constitution. And, how absurd, when the gov't prosecuted the Dividian survivors. Jury nollification? Not a chance. We need to revisit these areas, including Ruby Ridge, and figure an ironclad, win-win strategy before more of the same takes place. What should we patriots have done then, that we can prepare ourselves for similar future outrages. The examples must be made of 'them' not 'us'. Accountability. That is the Key.
Love (consciousness) is in everything including the void.
What can we do?
Join your local militia and learn some new skills and how to protect your neighbors. Thats what
People have conveniently
People have conveniently forgotten Waco, haven't they?
Waco - A New Revelation (1999) (Part 1 of 2)
http://video.google.com/v...
Proof that the delta force was used sent by executive order to used lethal force against the branch dividians. Snipers, Helicopters with machine guns and explosives... Never Forget!
"Americans need to take a Democrap and wipe it's Republican from the history books of this once great Nation"
-Concerned Citizen
I am
sick to my stomach. I am contemplating New hampshire. I am getting screwed big time by the Mass DOR. They are out of control. I have filed my tax returns and they disalowed them and put there own tax returns in called a substitute for return totalling close to 4 million dollars. I have been fighting them tooth and nail. Now they say if I dont pay up they are taking away all my liscenses and the one to drive. My life depends on a liscense to drive and they say it is law now. But in the Mass State constitution it says they can not take away priveledges without due process of law. I am really distraught, I do have people helping me with this but it is killing me. But where do you go. Now passports have the chip in them. I feel like a caged rat and with no where to go. Sorry I needed to vent but i feel like there has to be a better place to be.
get out of MA
They voted FOR state income tax. That stated is whacked out (I'm a former resident). The population of that state is growing even though it's residents are leaving. Why? It's a major welfare state loaded with illegal aliens.
MASS is 70% slaves who agreed to stay in chains
What
is
WRONG
with
those
people???????????????????????????????????????
I'm with you
I don't want to leave my country but my country and countrymen have left me. The Caribbean sounds good - I'm in Florida.
As to home schooling - how do you think Little House on the Prairie taught school to their children? Home school is the only way to go and for the subjects you & your wife need help with - that's why home schoolers have home school groups and home school sports programs - the only thing about home school is parents have opted out of government run and government controlled education and that's a good thing.
Look for people who are like minded and see if a group of you can start and more will come - kind of like - if you build it, they will come.
Detective Krum Investigates:
http://victory1project.wo...
http://v1-p.com/
It's a 2 hour drive to Mexico for me
And every day it is very tempting to plan a one-way trip there.
************************************************
CITIZEN'S ARRESTS on McCain/Obama
and all other criminal politicians NOW!!!!
It is NOT against the law to
It is NOT against the law to carry a gun in Texas. But. You must go for gun training..get a certificate and then you may carry a weapon on your person. My 70 year old disabled friend carries a .45 in her purse.
My husband lived in NH for a couple of years before I knew him. He says he'd never to back there he just didn't like it..too much snow and cold and very expensive.
Don't want any of that.
Montana, yes, I'm attracted to Montana...but it's too danged cold as well.
Guess I'll stay here.
New Hampshire
sounds like my kind of state but what about it being totally in the Constitution free zone?
One thing.. I believe that
One thing.. I believe that an elected sheriff can kick out federal agents from his legal jurisdiction. He has the right to do this and it has been done before. So.... we got to get some Free Staters elected as Sheriff.
Yep
Constitutional Law says on the united States Marshall and the Sheriff are the only 2 constitutional law enforcement officers. As to who mentioned the Constitutional Free Zones - poppy cock - the Constitution is for all the united States of America.
Detective Krum Investigates:
http://victory1project.wo...
http://v1-p.com/
I agree,
hope they get it done asap!
They are trying.. I guess I
They are trying.. I guess I should say we as I'm a member also.
FSP has a board you can join and discuss it and see how its going. I guess the latest news was something like 5-8 FSP members are now new NH state reps. This is pretty impressive because they kicked out some terrible authoritarians that have been there for 30 years or better. These guys that were elected are hard core liberty people. So that is a big win.
Where else in America are libertarians winning?
Thanks JayDee! Keep’em
Thanks JayDee! Keep’em coming!
As this election demonstrated how few of us are willing to stand by our principles to the bitter end, I am now more than ever convinced we need to band together to avoid being diluted out of a voice altogether.
As for NH (with ME & VT) vs. MT (with ID, WY, ND, SD and even UT and eastern WA & OR) (AK is kind of off on its own), I honestly think they’re complimentary rather than competitors. The economies and job markets, geography and even culture, are so different, that some people willing to move to one, will not want to, or be able to, move to the other.
And considering the difference even the percentagewise small numbers of RP supporters who live in CA, TX, FL, NY and others can make in elections in either one, It’s getting those guys to consider moving that will make a difference, more than determining the exact ‘best’ destination for their move.
I do like what I hear about NH, though. They ought to give you an honorary assembly seat or something for selling their state so well. Methinks I will have to go for a longer visit sometime. I have only been there once, in 2005, but I wasn’t out looking for libertarians, so I really didn’t get the same ‘freedom spirit’ that is so easy to come by in the Northern Rockies.
Well past that time...but never too late.
Discover Costa Rica
Math and Science are my domain
Need a teacher? I'm in PHX, AZ. My rates are low. :-)
My Shelfari page
Texas is great. I've lived
Texas is great. I've lived all around the world..but I gratefully came back home..no place is as free as the USA...no place in the USA is more independent than Texas. While the other states are going to pot and begging for 'government' money Texas has a 10 billion dollar surplus. Half the jobs created in the US last year were created in Texas.
Climate? Depends..we have deserts,mountains, swamps, forests...just what would you like? I live in northeast Texas...the Piney Woods it's called...but was raised in west central Texas where the sun shines almost every single day and the rainfall is about 10 inches annually.
Texas is the friendliest place I've ever been.
And we are armed to the teeth. LOL..
Texas is the home of Dr. Paul. If it's good enough for him it oughta be good enough for you!! ;-)
Come on y'all...move to Texas.
TX is great if you don't mind living in Mexico.
I lived there for 16 years. I was happy to move to SC 3 years ago to escape the "Mexico extension". Now, don't get me wrong. My H is 1/2 Mexican. However, if you do not speak Spanish, you will have few prospects in the job market.
Your "conscience" is the measure of the honesty of your selfishness. ~Richard Bach
On the way!
To Austin in less than a month!
Say what, about 1 Million
Say what, about 1 Million voted for Paul in the primaries.. something like that..
Texas has 23 Million people in it.
New Hampshire has 1 Million people in it.
Now I have a math problem for you.
Do you think those 1 Million Ron Paul supporters will have more effect in A) Texas or B) New Hampshire? (hint: compare less than 5% of the vote to about 50%.)
Texas wasn't even considered a finalist for the Free State Project because of its size and population.
Your into guns? Texas law states that it is a crime to carry a handgun "on or about your person." .. New Hampshire allows open carry, you can walk down the street and into a store with a holster on your hip.
I'm not trying to knock you or Texas or anything but some very smart people already considered every state in the union and New Hampshire came out on top, (next to runner's up Alaska, Delaware, Idaho, Maine, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, and Wyoming.)
There is a saying in Texas
"Remember the Alamo"
It is inscribed around a giant seal in the ground in the capital building.
Judging by the statistics of population and mathematical ratio you make a fair case. BUT consider the following:
Have you ever lived in Texas? It is definitely different than many places in the US. It is the only place that has felt like home to me, and I wasn't born here. There is a pride and history of liberty in this place. You can see it all over, from the urban to the rural locales. We may have some sheep here, but the people will stand up for Texas when the SHTF.
We have 23 million mostly armed, majority of armed are armed relatively well. Very conservative values. Friends with our very conservative, TTC stopping state to the North OK.
Just food for thought. Maybe the FSP criteria wasn't complete.
Also, Texas is is the proven
Also, Texas is is the proven home to some of the most aggressive state funded child abductors in the country. Although it has to be added the Texans do, for now, seem to have a judiciary capable of reining in those guys' worst excesses.
In practical terms, my main beef with Texas, is simply the size of its population. We'll never be more than a drop in the bucket there, while in the FSP finalist states, we could, with much less effort, become quite influential.
I agree Texas is
I agree Texas is overpopulated, and I live there.
Montana should have been the Free State, in my opinion. Much of the frontier grit Texas has, plus better weather, and it doesn't border Massachusetts.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
What?
Whats wrong with mASSachusetts? Besides it being a liberal black hole?
Even with the FSP Im liking montana and texas more.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants
Here is what's wrong with Massachusetts...
They had a chance to VOTE OUT the state income tax and they voted 70% to KEEP IT!!!
ANYONE WHO VOTES TO KEEP AN IMMORAL INCOME TAX IS NOT A FRIEND OF LIBERTY AND FREEDOM.
THIS FROM THE STATE THAT HOSTED THE BOSTON TEA PARTY???
They needed to be in Minneapolis at Dr. Paul's Rally where he made the most TRUTHFUL statement ever said; "EVEN A 1% INCOME TAX IS IMMORAL BECAUSE THAT MEANS THE GOVERNMENT OWNS PART OF THE FRUITS OF YOUR LABOR."
Which means the government owns part of you.
Better known as SLAVERY.
The state of Massachusetts is 70% BRAINWASHED Slaves.
SAD, SAD, SAD.