History is about to repeat itself!

I got a good laugh at this line thanks:

"altruism is akin to lubing up your booty and running into a prison shower."

LOL!

It depends on ones definition. I think we nee to be careful here. Motive is more important then sacrifice itself. There is nothing wrong with sacrifice if it's done freely and for a worthy cause. Many people have sacrificed so their children could have better opportunities.

Sacrificing abundance bought with debt now so you can live debt free and have more abundance later is the cornerstone of good fiscal policy.

Only when it's done by force such as this civil service crap or even people who voluntarily do it out of religious piousness becuase they think it is what they are supposed to do even though they really don't want to do it.

Albeit nothing is wrong with doing it out of religious belief if you truly do it from the heart and not out of duty or for some reward in the after life.. However I have to agree that many religious people are shamed into to it and this training may make some more apt to accept this Nazi youth crap Obama is promoting out of duty or shame.

There is a fine line IMO but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

-----
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken

Get Prepared!

"There can be only one permanent revolution - a moral one: The regeneration of the inner man."
—Tolstoy

~peace

that is better to give than to receive. My mother had a quote she often used - "The only thing you take with you when you die is what you gave away while you were here" That doesn't mean she gave nothing to herself...she kept what she needed (and was certainly never in debt)..

My problem is when I am told WHAT to give, WHERE to give it, and to WHOM I should give it. Then it is no longer a gift of the heart.

Charity is good and this nation has always been full of charitable givers when people are in need. But, just like all the pressure at work to give to United Way...I never give a dime. It is my choice, not the governments or my employers, to decide when/where I donate my time or money. Guess the "churches" didn't do a good job for the people in the area of "charity" so the government has (as usual) taken over that department as well.
Perhaps they'll set up a Department of Charity - required giving taken out of your paycheck.

Over time the religious student begins to recongize how altruism can and many times does more harm to people than good.

And that "sacrifice" and service are a great evil and lead to unhappiness.

Whenever a person stifles natural emotions ` such as justified anger at being taken advantage of by others - she does not negate those emotions.

They are pushed inward and stored. In an unguarded moment they often explode to the surface. Maybe the dog does something and the person disproportianately beats the dog in a great rage...

Instead of building honest genuine character, creating prosperity and values for society. Sacrifice in fact does the opposite. It stifles incentive, creates stagnation, ruines economic growth, job creation and prosperity, while creating an inner "anger" and self loathing.

History is repleat with societies destroyed through Altruism.

Rational Self Interest and "selflessness" are basic to mans character and happiness. Selfishness is not cold and not only leaves great room for compassion but gives greater ability to give it.

You can NOT love anyone more than you love and respect yourself.

Since some Religions hold self sacrifice as an ideal, people FOOL themselves as to what self-sacrifice really means. Because we have been programmed to believe that self sacrifice is moral we fail to see the consequences of the behavior.

Everyone Admires a Hero and a Hero is someone who can do great good.
Consider the Following Attributes of a "Selfish" person and "Selfless" person.

Rational Self Interest.
1) She put rational self interest first ...Result : Respects Self and therefore others. This is different than continually usurping your wishes on others.

2) In control and works hard to accomplish OWN goals and Visions. Honoring creative spirit rather than sacraficing it.

3) A strong personality.

4) Self Confidence and Self Esteem.

5) Honest and Forthright - You don't have to guess what they are thinking or think they are lying. They aren't..

6) Fell secure in herself and has NO desire to control others.

7) Recongizes the Individual (and individual rights) as the highest value.

8) Compassionate towards others because the FEELING of Love and Respect for herSelf.

9) This brings Love and Happiness. It also creates value for society because this person works hard to accomplish the dreams and visions , which will always lead to a creation of values for society.

Many would say the criminal is selfish, but I disagree, criminals are irrationally angry because of loss of self via the Altruism hoax.

Self - less person.
1) Puts self 2nd - Result" taken advantage of, and therefore feels and stores resentment toward others.

2) Must Manipulate others to achieve Goals. ( a million examples)

3) A weak personality.

4) Lack of Self confidence and self esteem.

5) Hides True emotional reactions in order to "practice" self sacrifice and "humility"... Therefore Not Honest with others..

(Lack of honesty and integrity is a major underminer of self esteem. The dishonesty is subtle but so much more powerful destroying lie)

6) Feels insecure. Desires to control others in order to MAKE them practice self sacrifice and suppress their personal desires as well. Creating more pent up anger and resentment.

7) VIEWS THE INDIVIDUAL AS SOMEONE TO BE SACRIFICED.

8) Does not feel TRUE compassion towards others because she hates herslef for her cowardly actions. This SELF HATRED IS PROJECTED ONTO OTHERS... Out of the abundance of the heart.!

End Result, Self loathing and unhappiness..

When man works in accordance with biological, emotional, and intellectual nature, man is a beautifully integrated whole happy being.

When man is at odds with himself the consequences are disasterous.

There is a Selfish Altruism... When Warren Buffet gives millions to charity he does it out of rational self interest. Giving out of abundance is rational and creates value for both the giver and the reciever.

Sacrifice of any kind is always wrong and evil.
One Voice, One Vision, One Love ~ Liberty.
Good Thoughts, Good Words , Good Deeds.
That is the Ron Paul rEVOLution Creed.

One Louv. ;-)..

http://www.dailypaul.com/...

Or that your church is a big supporter of "The Messiah" then.

If anyone gives something to his brother or neighbor but does it without love, you may call it altruism but it is not the Christian faith. If people do it out of obligation it is not love and therefore not conflicting with their Christianity. If one acts, out of the abundance of love and grace that God has given them, then that is pleasing to God. If one sets up a rule and suffers to accomplish it, they may gain insights into their spirituality and put them on a path of discovery but it is not answering the commandment to love thy neighbor as thyself.

There is no conflict between the constitution and the Christian faith. Your article seems to be framing the "service" question as a religious one and I think that misses the mark. The idea that people must sacrifice to gain something is not false, but true faith only involves actions of love.

2 cents from the peanut gallery.

I expect that Obama's supporters will not oppose civil service as they have already been indoctrinated with Altruistic premises in their churches all their lives.

I'm sure some will. Isn't this more of a matter of blind altruism, in which the means doesn't matter (which is not Biblical at all) as long as the ends are being reached for?

They will see nothing wrong with Altruism which is the moral code they have been raised with.

What's wrong with someone choosing to be altruistic if they don't violate rights? (if you think nothing, then you should be focusing on rights violations, not altruism)

I don't doubt that many of us here were encouraged to accept the basic tenets of Altruism in our own upbringing.

I don't doubt that either.

Altruism demands that one simply accept the interests of others, of the nation, of those in need, to take precedence over one's own selfish interests.

Altruism doesn't demand anything. Some people might demand that you be altruistic, and if they force it, it is clearly a violation of rights, plus you're not really being altruistic if it's not voluntary.

Altruism is often stated in euphemistic terms, that it is "better to give than to recieve."

Yes, that is an over-generalized statement.

The unstated premise inherent in that statement is that by nature human beings are sacrificial animals and that it is justifiable and ethical to coerce, mandate, require, compel, demand, indoctrinate, educate, draft, or enslave citizens if it is for a "good" cause.

The only people I've ever heard suggest anything like this are those that have some anti-religion agenda. First, if "by nature human beings" were sacrificial animals, then obviously people wouldn't think they need to teach others to be altruistic in the first place. I don't see how you can even come up with the idea that it's 'justifiable and ethical to coerce, mandate, require, compel, demand, indoctrinate, educate, draft, or enslave citizens if it is for a "good" cause.' To a Christian (that has actually read/studied the Bible), this makes absolutely no sense. You can't help people by harming people. The ends do not justify the means. Any Christian that claims those things are justifiable is severely misled.

That happens to fly in the face of the ethics of Altruism which is the dominant and prevailing ethical system in our country and in the world.

The Constitution and Bill of Rights are quite consistent with Christianity. Even the Constitution has a few parts that violate our rights (martial law, etc), which goes against the understanding that the Bible teaches that no man has any real authority over any other (hence you can't violate others rights).

Altruism is the ethical system of the Judeo-Christian religion which is not as benevolent as parents and clergy would have us believe.

Don't confuse the people that claim to follow a particular faith with the Faith itself (even the ones that follow it very closely won't do it perfectly...because nobody's perfect!)

If we as Ron Paul supporters have to choose between adherence to the Constitution and the religion we have been raised to believe I should think that would generate some anxiety because there is a conflict there.

You realize that Ron Paul is a Christian, right? You realize that Ron Paul, too, is altruistic (he didn't run for president for his own gain) to a degree (no one is perfectly altruistic, nor can anyone be...as I said, nobody's perfect, so no one can perfectly do anything). I as a Christian think that even the Constitution goes too far at forcing things on people. The Constitution isn't perfect, and is at odds with religion to a degree, not because it doesn't force religion enough, but because it has some things that violates others rights built right in, which is anti-Christian.

Is it good to help others? Yes!
Is it good to help yourself? Yes!
Is it good to help others when they don't want your help? No!
Is it good to force others to help others? No!
Is it good to help yourself at someone else's expense? No!

This is very simple stuff. Altruism implies voluntarism. You can't be forced into being altruistic. Altruism implies helping, which means you can't be violating peoples rights in the process.

You do realize that this liberty movement is full of people who are to a degree altruistic, right? A lot of us aren't fighting for freedom just for ourselves. Some are doing it for their families. Some are doing it for their friends. Some are doing it for people they don't even know. Some are even doing it for God. I seriously doubt that Ron Paul was running for president entirely, or even mostly for selfish reasons...his candidacy was to a large degree altruistic.

And by the grace of God, often selfishness (at least when it comes to production and trade) does benefit others. It doesn't even make sense to completely deny yourself (starve yourself or whatever) so you can help others, because then you will die sooner, and won't be able to help anyone else. You have to take care of yourself if you want to help others long-term.

Altruism isn't bad. Altruism is when someone chooses to help someone else that is willing to receive the help. What's wrong with someone choosing to do that, and someone choosing to accept it?

The real problem is that people do not respect other peoples rights, not that people want to help others (be altruistic).

Is this thread just an anti-Christian, or anti-religion rant?...to help us (or some of us)?...as in altruism? Your altruistic post seems to have been exactly the thing you say is bad...trying to help others through harmful means (misleading information despite good intentions). If your post was purely selfish, though, please explain how.

"I expect that Obama's supporters will not oppose civil service as they have already been indoctrinated with Altruistic premises in their churches all their lives. They will see nothing wrong with Altruism which is the moral code they have been raised with."

Huh? I never once learned in church that as an American I should be forced into some sort of service that looks more like Nazi training than anything else. Why the necessity to blame church going for our citizens ignorance and complacency?

I have always been a believer as are many of the people on this site...what is our excuse for not buying into this mess? Were we simply "indoctrinated" differently? Or could it be that church going has absolutely nothing to do with the problem...but people like to use it as a scapegoat anytime they can somehow link something bad and church?

"I went through the list of states at the www.campaignforliberty.co... site and verified that the numbers of those who joined is increasing slowly and I fear not fast enough to save the day."

When Ron Paul started the Campaign for Liberty I joined, and laughed that it would probably reach its membership signup goals within two weeks, max. I didn't think it would take until September 2nd.

As I recall, when I checked September 2nd, the numbers were still in the 90,000-100,000 column. C4L now has 115,000 members, which is an apparent increase of around 10,000 people per month. That's not bad, but it's hardly the explosive growth we expected after the first Money Bombs a year ago, and the much larger number of people who voted for Ron Paul in the primaries.

We need to face facts--most of the generated momentum for this movement was created by Ron Paul's presidential bid itself, and if we want to keep the movement alive and well, he needs to run for President again.

SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States

I know exactly what he's talking about. I have felt this uneasiness for almost two years. And now I'm really scared. I'm more scared of my countrymen selling us out than of leaders who'll take us there. I think these idiots will go willingly. There are no countries for us to discover and colonize, this is all we've got and once its gone, it will be so very hard to convince idiots to fight for her. It's as though they want to be taken care of. I can't believe the civil army crap. What does that have to do with any hint of freedom of being your own person of liberty. We are so in trouble!

to lubing up your booty and running into a prison shower.

Your gonna end up screwed and no one is really the better for it.

Acting in your own self interest via creation of value is what all progress comes from and all production and creation of value and wealth.

"Get off the cross we need the wood." We are going to do something valuable with it.