but I find that talking about it does not do much good. to a degree, it is like putting the horse behind the applecart. I have much better luck talking about restoring our common heritage. out heritage states that we are to monitor our government and not let it get away with shoddy work.
I personally think that ending the fed should be our primary goal. it has been done before, they are vulnerable right now. and they are the ones running the country anyhow.
" the important thing is to never stop questioning, curiousity, has it's own reason for existing..
Albert Einstien
911 truthers should stick to the facts, these are enough for a new investigation. I have a scientific background and can poke holes in all the theories expressed, but the two items listed above are fact.
And if just these 2 things are true, then its anybodys guess as to what else may be true.
"The Constitution was written not to regulate you in any way, the purpose of the Constitution is to restrain the government." Ron Paul.
I sometimes read/hear of people putting down the truth movement for the premise the planes may have been remotely flown. Of course the same people never reference Op: Northwoods.
If that technology was available 4 decades ago it stands to reason it's available now.
Even if you believe LIHOP, you still believe in part of the OGCT.
----
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi
I agree...we were brought up in the government run"public" School system.. we were all brainwashed to think that the government is good and would never lie! some people just can't get over the brainwashing!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
This is why we came together on this website, and many others. For Liberty, not to prove conspiracies.
Violating rights is corrupt. The government, which violates rights, therefore is corrupt.
Our government is not supposed to do anything outside of what powers were delegated to it in the Constitution. It does so anyways, and therefore it is corrupt.
Violation of rights is unjust. Therefore our government is unjust.
This is what this revolution is about. Why people spend time dealing with conspiracies here, I have no idea. I hardly think this is the most appropriate site for such things. I hardly think it's beneficial to the revolution to discuss these things here. I think it's counter productive to discuss them here, as it causes many people to not want to listen to us.
Now, I know many of you will assume from this comment that I believe the government or something, since I'm suggesting it's counter productive to discuss conspiracies here or on other websites related to restoring our republic. However, I think it's foolish to blindly believe the government's official story of what happened, and there have clearly been many holes found in their official story. However, I also know enough to know that I don't know exactly how the 9/11 event came to be.
If I want to learn about or discuss 9/11, I'll go to a website that's main topic is 9/11, not that of restoring our republic. I appreciate the real effort that's put into finding out the truth about 9/11, but we can restore our republic just as easily without bringing in possible conspiracies. If someone finally proves that 9/11 was an inside job, then that's great, because then we can add that to the already long list of other reasons why we want to restore our republic. Do we need it? Not at all. We already have more than enough reasons to want to restore our republic. Do I think it would be a good thing to find out the truth about 9/11? Absolutely! 9/11 websites are a better place for that, however. If there's someone here you want to come to that site, then contact them and invite them over. There's no need to mix possible conspiracies with trying to restore the republic, and all the negative effects on our revolution due to the masses not liking when people talk about conspiracies. So let's just stick with logic/reasoning and proven violations of rights on the governments part, and leave the conspiracies to their respective websites.
If "No conspiracies [are] needed" then how is anyone to refute the official government conspiracy theory that you implied that you reject?
Oh, that's right, according to you it doesn't matter what irrational conspiracy theories the government puts forward to justify its wars of aggression and the destruction of our Constitutional Republic. We're not supposed to reject them according to your logic, I guess (or at least not talk about them on the Daily Paul).
Let me add that one reason why many people in the 9/11 Truth Movement do what they do is because they want truth and justice for the peaceful and innocent people who were cold-bloodedly murdered on 11 September 2001 and the 50,000 first responders who continue to suffer, get sick and die because of the government's lies about 9/11.
By the way, as I mentioned in another post, this site's guidelines clearly state that one mission of the Daily Paul is to provide a forum for the honest discussion of ideas and the search for truth. If you disagree with those guidelines, which apparently you do based on your posts, then perhaps another website would be more to your liking? Then the rest of us who agree with the search for truth would be excused of your endless whining.
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"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi
NO sense whatsoever. That is why we don't believe it. Your "evidence" is a joke. You saps trust Richard Gage, Loose Change, Jones, Griffin and all the other frauds and scammers . You've been conned and you still haven't realized it yet. One day you will and you'll look back at all the time you wasted of your life with "conspiracy" crap. I was once exactly like you, so I know all about it. For 10 years or so, starting in the early 90's , conspiracy theories became a big part of my life. Ruby Ridge,the '94 assault weapons ban, Waco, OK City, 9/11, NWO, JFK etc. Just to be clear, I did not believe in your inside job theory when it came to OK City or 9/11. I believed that the government allowed them to occur, to further expand their powers as part of the NWO plot. About a year or so after 9/11, I took a long break from all conspiracy related subjects. After several months, I went back but with an open mind and looked at the same evidence, and came to different conclusions. I stayed away from politics until I heard about Ron Paul from the media coverage of the Nov. 5th money bomb. He was the first politician I heard stand up for true freedom and the Constitution, and really mean it. He cured my apathy. I could go on but I don't think you will really care, so I won't bother. I know I wouldn't have back in the day. I had the exact same mindset as many of you. We are not enemies. We have a difference of opinion about the direction of the Liberty movement. We "9/11 Truth Deniers" or "debunkers" do not believe 9/11 Truth helps are cause and will only put us farther out on the fringe. We have to be able to appeal to the masses. It is hard enough task to convince people to follow the Constitution. Until the 9/11 Truth movement gets real, substantiated, undebatable, undeniable proof, trying to convince the masses of the inside job theory or other conspiracies will be futile. It will push more people away then it will attract. If you truly care about restoring Constitutional government to the U.S.A., you should trust Ron Paul when he stated, "Well, it doesn't do me any good, so if they care about me they should [cease it]."
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"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi
You'll notice that this individual endlessly bashes "conspiracy theories" but refuses to state what leads him or her to believe the official government conspiracy theory.
He/she bashes any theory (apparently) that does not tow the official government conspiracy theory line on 9/11, yet apparently does not demand that the OGCT demonstrate the qualities of self-consistency or any basis of empirical evidence. He/she talks about "different conclusions" about 9/11, but does not offer a scintilla of self-consistent or empirical evidence to support his or her "conclusion."
I guess that I should qualify my remarks by acknowledging that this individual may indeed believe that one person, acting alone, perpetrated the attacks on 11 September 2001--but since the individual in question refuses to answer (or is ignoring) the central question at hand, we are left to assume that he or she cannot cite any self-consistent, observable, measurable and empirical evidence that leads him or her to believe the official conspiracy theory.
----
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi
who exactly decided that our whole revolution revolves around 9/11? I keep seeing this theme come up in the "anti-truther" section. We have conversations among ourselves about various topics that are important to us, so what? Look over to the right...conversations about china buying gold, americans being frugal, plunge protection teams, world leaders not wanting to soil their hands shaking bushces claw, you name it and it's there.
The problem IMHO is that there are a VERY FEW vocal people who can't stand the idea of like minded persons discussing 9/11. Just like there are a VERY FEW vocal people who don't like any discussion that happens to be about religion. I believe that the goals of both parties is simply to harass people for having personal beliefs that differ from their own. Either way, the aggressors are not advancing the message of freedom, liberty, and the right to be and think as an individual. I would say that simply ridiculing people for not believing the way you do is very counter productive to the revolution.
If your not interested in the subject, go on to another subject. I don't understand why that is so hard? Go explain what you think will happen "if the dow drops to 4000" or something. I enjoy this place because of all the good conversations that appear, but my revolution doesn't "revolve" around any one topic. Does yours?
is too much to ask of horatthegate don't you...this is why we continue seeing topics from them causing division, like the "9/11 truthers are always right..." thread by crustypubic.
They don't have an, or an ability to, answer to reason and common sense.
"We dare not forget that we are heirs of that first revolution" -JFK
I mean Laws of Physics are called laws because they are proven not because they are considered theory..
These people get it..
150+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials
630+ Engineers and Architects
150+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals
310+ Professors Question 9/11
230+ 9/11 Survivors and Family Members
How many people trust their guts anymore or their reason? I had very little to do with politics and the government before 911. I will say this. When I was standing there on 911 watching the TV witnessing the buildings coming down. I will be honest and say that my first reaction was not " Oh my all the innocent victims" It was something doesn't look right here. I have worked in construction and have built many buildings big and small right down to a dog house. Structures like that just don't come crashing to the ground at free fall speeds without help. Period. That has not been a question since 911. The story as far as I am concerned is false and a lie. Know one will change my mind either. The only questions that I have that are un-answered is who all was behind it.
I think all those that fight for 911 truth should fight on. I also agree with other comments that and I have been saying this for 8 years now. If you want your country back and if you want the truth then you need to take back your media. Where some fight for the constitution and some fight for 911 truth. I myself and a handful of others fight for fair and balanced and truthful journalism. I know I am just preaching to the choir for the most part here. I know this though. I have been networked pretty hard on the internet. Here, on Facebook, Myspace, Break the Matrix. I would give anything to have the support that is behind Dr. Paul to rally up after we take on the Fed and focus all that attention not on bashing the media, instead we need to create a new foundation of mainstream media for the country that is on TV and can reach the same demographic as the present. I feel until we can do that we will keep beating our heads against the wall. Right now this is David and Goliath.
"I don't want to be in a battle . . . but
waiting on the edge of one I can't escape
is even worse"
There are other people out there who can be helped, and you can't waste your time trying to help someone who won't be helped. There's limited time left.
Let them go, and concentrate on productive efforts with those who can see..
Just go with me for a moment... You have let everyone known that all the towers were destroyed in a controlled demolition. Everyone believes what you are saying is the undeniable truth.
Now what?
Do you have any other goal in mind other than just trying to convince people you are right?
You raise a good point, since nothing can be criminally proven--there's never going to be evidence that can result in criminal indictments. And even a second inquiry would be a waste of taxpayers' money, in my opinion.
There was a largely forgotten second inquiry into the Kennedy assassination in the 1970s, and while it acknowledged "a possible conspiracy", it was still a whitewash, and reinforced the same old lies and bullshit about Oswald, the Sixth Floor, and so on.
Another 911 Commission inquiry would be no different.
In my opinion, however, confronting 911 serves an educational purpose. It teaches people to (a) distrust the federal government, and (b) distrust the media. Both are important.
Truths about Pearl Harbor, JFK, the Gulf of Tonkin, and even the Lusitania are useful in that sense. Unmasking Presidential tyrants FDR and Lincoln is very useful. Especially Lincoln, who is sugar-coated by historians and revered by ignorant conservatives and liberals alike.
People should be skeptical of our government, which has a long history of lying the nation into war.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
"In my opinion, however, confronting 911 serves an educational purpose. It teaches people to (a) distrust the federal government, and (b) distrust the media. Both are important."
I agree. And this does seem to be the common theme as to why to confront people with 911 issues.
"Truths about Pearl Harbor, JFK, the Gulf of Tonkin, and even the Lusitania are useful in that sense. Unmasking Presidential tyrants FDR and Lincoln is very useful. Especially Lincoln, who is sugar-coated by historians and revered by ignorant conservatives and liberals alike."
Much easier lies to expose and less emotionally charged than 9/11.
9/11 truth is like steak. Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin and Lusitania is baby food.
what it is your trying to prove or disprove? What exactly is your problem with people who want the "truth" to get out and be known? Because so far you just sound like a 12 year old who wants to argue for the sake of arguing.
new administration. The terrorists in office now will thwart any attempt to get at the truth because it all points to them. 19 arabs yeah sure. The people who want to deny the facts about 911 ought to put their teeth under their pillows and wait for the Tooth Fairy. Planes do not vaporize and steel frame buildings do not turn to dust because a few Arabs hate our "freedoms". What "freedoms"?
9/11 was an inside job .....time to get some answers..RP 2008
I really don't get the vibe that you simply want to know "what the next plan of action is". You say we are wasting our time and could be doing something more productive.....Like what? You should have some answers with all the wisdom you pretend to have. Let's hear from you what we should all be doing since you have all the answers.
it's for the people that might not know the difference because they think the media and the government is telling them the truth.
It's a selfless cause.. The more that know then the less that will be fooled and the more that will be behind bringing back Constitutional Rights and the Republic.
I'm not doing this to be RIGHT.. I'm doing it on principal.
What do you suggest I do.. Mirrior the ruthless bastards that did this and start killing people??? What the hell would that prove.
I didn't read down far enough apparently. So your efforts are to have truthers just be quiet and wait wait wait for something extra special to happen..yeah that makes zero amount of sense.
How about YOU avoid the topic if that is how you feel. That would make sense now wouldn't it.
sorry I'm not fascinating to you...I live try daily to make sure that I fascinate people, guess I'll have to rethink my outlook and try harder next time. I'm upset now. :O)
curious person who grills/questions people, yet has nothing to contribute other than trying to stir people up. I guess you would find yourself fascinating wouldn't you....glad I'm not in that company.
Have fun with your worthless conversations and input.
It's not about trusting the government. I have very little trust in the government, same as Ron Paul.
It's about using your noodle to reason things out properly. Make sure the evidence is sound. Make sure you are looking at all the facts and not conveniently ignoring evidence.
If you do this with an open mind, I don't think you could come to any other conclusion than the one Ron Paul arrives at: this was blow-back from bad foreign policy. It was not controlled demolition or other theories I've heard people pushing.
That's just it....... we "truthers" HAVE looked at the evidence, the physics, the videos, the inconsistancies of the 9/11 commission report, Building 7, the Pentagon, the use of 9/11 as a justification to wage an unconstitutional war and attack our Constitutional freedoms, etc...... I tried as hard as I could to make myself believe that Ron Paul's theory is correct. With the mentality of the American sheeple to contend with, Dr. Paul's theory is certainly the most politically expediant approach, but as things continue to go into the crapper I believe that even HE will start be more vocal in his support of a new investigation and in rational 9/11 truth. Blowback is likely 'part' of 9/11, but after spending a solid year doing constant research into what happened that day, I can come to no other conclusion: 9/11 was a false flage operation, engineered by the Bush regime and the globalist "elites", which utilized controlled demolotion and which NEVER had anything even resembling a unbiased, independant investigation. How can you look at this link and say it wasn't controlled demo??? http://www.veoh.com/video...
I respect your right to disagree, but in this instance you are wrong.
Doc Holladay
Nashville, TN http://www.myspace.com/do...
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"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi
...the question to has not responded. But the individual claims to "trust reason and logic".
----
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi
So you post the question on the 20th and then don't get an immediate answer so you assume I'm dodging your question? Wow. Simply amazing.
The fact is all of the theories I've heard from the Truther movement (free-fall, demolition charges, etc...) have been reasonably disproved. The theory that most seems to fit is that two airliners crashed into the towers, they burned and fell, spewing debris at WTC7 which then burned and fell. I supplied videos and equations in other threads to back this view up. The people piloting those airliners were al Queida members. It was blowback from a flawed foreign policy.
I haven't seen anything from the truther movement yet that fits better than the above theory.
Now just a note for you: This is growing tedious and I may not check back with this thread. If so, and if you posted a question, I may not see it. Doesn't mean I can't answer, just means I'm bored with it.
Congratulations, you have dodged the question, "what makes you believe the official conspiracy theory?"
"The theory that most seems to fit is that two airliners crashed into the towers, they burned and fell, spewing debris at WTC7 which then burned and fell. I supplied videos and equations in other threads to back this view up. The people piloting those airliners were al Queida members."
If that's true, then you should have no problem supporting these assertions here by citing the relevant supporting, self-consistent, empirical evidence.
----
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi
In numerous threads I've provided video evidence about the time it took for the towers to collapse, plus detailed equations calculating the expected free fall time. I'm not sure what more you expect.
I'm still waiting to hear some acknowledgement from someone that indeed I am correct and the building took much longer than free fall time. Not one truther seems to want to own up to this.
... and perpetuating two "wars" and dismantling the remnant of our constitutional republic because (they say almost daily) "9/11 happened", the onus is on the government to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the official conspiracy theory. Granted, I wouldn't expect an official government conspiracy theorist to grasp that.
I asked "what makes you believe the official conspiracy theory?" and you respond with a priori assertions restating the official conspiracy theory (and incorrectly stating it at that, for anyone who is familiar with NIST's report on WTC7), citing no self-consistent, empirical evidence. So much for your previously asserted "trust in reason and logic".
This thread speaks for itself to anyone capable of critical and rational thinking.
----
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi
I am a truther.
but I find that talking about it does not do much good. to a degree, it is like putting the horse behind the applecart. I have much better luck talking about restoring our common heritage. out heritage states that we are to monitor our government and not let it get away with shoddy work.
I personally think that ending the fed should be our primary goal. it has been done before, they are vulnerable right now. and they are the ones running the country anyhow.
" the important thing is to never stop questioning, curiousity, has it's own reason for existing..
Albert Einstien
911 was fishy
2 things for certain, without a doubt, uncontrovertible evidence, gospel.
1) The government knew it was going to happen.
2) The government allowed it to happen.
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
911 truthers should stick to the facts, these are enough for a new investigation. I have a scientific background and can poke holes in all the theories expressed, but the two items listed above are fact.
And if just these 2 things are true, then its anybodys guess as to what else may be true.
"The Constitution was written not to regulate you in any way, the purpose of the Constitution is to restrain the government." Ron Paul.
SirFelix, I sometimes
SirFelix,
I sometimes read/hear of people putting down the truth movement for the premise the planes may have been remotely flown. Of course the same people never reference Op: Northwoods.
If that technology was available 4 decades ago it stands to reason it's available now.
that is pretty much where i come down at.
What makes you or anyone believe the official conspiracy theory?
Even if you believe LIHOP, you still believe in part of the OGCT.
----
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi
I agree...we were brought up
I agree...we were brought up in the government run"public" School system.. we were all brainwashed to think that the government is good and would never lie! some people just can't get over the brainwashing!
"When governments fear the people there is liberty. When the people fear the government there is tyranny."
-Thomas Jefferson
I am more concerned about the return of my money than the return on my money. --Mark Twain
This simple video tells you
This simple video tells you all you need to know to be against nearly everything that our government does. No conspiracies needed!
The Philosophy of Liberty
This is why we came together on this website, and many others. For Liberty, not to prove conspiracies.
Violating rights is corrupt. The government, which violates rights, therefore is corrupt.
Our government is not supposed to do anything outside of what powers were delegated to it in the Constitution. It does so anyways, and therefore it is corrupt.
Violation of rights is unjust. Therefore our government is unjust.
This is what this revolution is about. Why people spend time dealing with conspiracies here, I have no idea. I hardly think this is the most appropriate site for such things. I hardly think it's beneficial to the revolution to discuss these things here. I think it's counter productive to discuss them here, as it causes many people to not want to listen to us.
Now, I know many of you will assume from this comment that I believe the government or something, since I'm suggesting it's counter productive to discuss conspiracies here or on other websites related to restoring our republic. However, I think it's foolish to blindly believe the government's official story of what happened, and there have clearly been many holes found in their official story. However, I also know enough to know that I don't know exactly how the 9/11 event came to be.
If I want to learn about or discuss 9/11, I'll go to a website that's main topic is 9/11, not that of restoring our republic. I appreciate the real effort that's put into finding out the truth about 9/11, but we can restore our republic just as easily without bringing in possible conspiracies. If someone finally proves that 9/11 was an inside job, then that's great, because then we can add that to the already long list of other reasons why we want to restore our republic. Do we need it? Not at all. We already have more than enough reasons to want to restore our republic. Do I think it would be a good thing to find out the truth about 9/11? Absolutely! 9/11 websites are a better place for that, however. If there's someone here you want to come to that site, then contact them and invite them over. There's no need to mix possible conspiracies with trying to restore the republic, and all the negative effects on our revolution due to the masses not liking when people talk about conspiracies. So let's just stick with logic/reasoning and proven violations of rights on the governments part, and leave the conspiracies to their respective websites.
_______________________________________________
My experimental website: http://planforliberty.no-ip.org
the government >>needs<< the official conspiracy theory...
If "No conspiracies [are] needed" then how is anyone to refute the official government conspiracy theory that you implied that you reject?
Oh, that's right, according to you it doesn't matter what irrational conspiracy theories the government puts forward to justify its wars of aggression and the destruction of our Constitutional Republic. We're not supposed to reject them according to your logic, I guess (or at least not talk about them on the Daily Paul).
Let me add that one reason why many people in the 9/11 Truth Movement do what they do is because they want truth and justice for the peaceful and innocent people who were cold-bloodedly murdered on 11 September 2001 and the 50,000 first responders who continue to suffer, get sick and die because of the government's lies about 9/11.
By the way, as I mentioned in another post, this site's guidelines clearly state that one mission of the Daily Paul is to provide a forum for the honest discussion of ideas and the search for truth. If you disagree with those guidelines, which apparently you do based on your posts, then perhaps another website would be more to your liking? Then the rest of us who agree with the search for truth would be excused of your endless whining.
----
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi
No we don't. You're wrong. Your whole inside job theory makes
NO sense whatsoever. That is why we don't believe it. Your "evidence" is a joke. You saps trust Richard Gage, Loose Change, Jones, Griffin and all the other frauds and scammers . You've been conned and you still haven't realized it yet. One day you will and you'll look back at all the time you wasted of your life with "conspiracy" crap. I was once exactly like you, so I know all about it. For 10 years or so, starting in the early 90's , conspiracy theories became a big part of my life. Ruby Ridge,the '94 assault weapons ban, Waco, OK City, 9/11, NWO, JFK etc. Just to be clear, I did not believe in your inside job theory when it came to OK City or 9/11. I believed that the government allowed them to occur, to further expand their powers as part of the NWO plot. About a year or so after 9/11, I took a long break from all conspiracy related subjects. After several months, I went back but with an open mind and looked at the same evidence, and came to different conclusions. I stayed away from politics until I heard about Ron Paul from the media coverage of the Nov. 5th money bomb. He was the first politician I heard stand up for true freedom and the Constitution, and really mean it. He cured my apathy. I could go on but I don't think you will really care, so I won't bother. I know I wouldn't have back in the day. I had the exact same mindset as many of you. We are not enemies. We have a difference of opinion about the direction of the Liberty movement. We "9/11 Truth Deniers" or "debunkers" do not believe 9/11 Truth helps are cause and will only put us farther out on the fringe. We have to be able to appeal to the masses. It is hard enough task to convince people to follow the Constitution. Until the 9/11 Truth movement gets real, substantiated, undebatable, undeniable proof, trying to convince the masses of the inside job theory or other conspiracies will be futile. It will push more people away then it will attract. If you truly care about restoring Constitutional government to the U.S.A., you should trust Ron Paul when he stated, "Well, it doesn't do me any good, so if they care about me they should [cease it]."
Are you a coincidence theorist
who thinks that evil people don't work together?
___________________________________
New World Order for Dummies
http://www.youtube.com/wa...
13 Bloodlines of The Illuminati
http://www.bibliotecapley...
The Biological Basis of Elitism and "The Divine Right" Rule
http://www.bibliotecapley...
Two-seed theory: The origins of the psychopathic elite
www.dailypaul.com/node/68...
Political Ponerology and Psychopaths
www.dailypaul.com/node/53...
The Secret Order of The Illuminati (good overview)
www.illuminati-news.com/m...
Secret Societies and the REAL driving force behind the New World Order
www.dailypaul.com/node/59...
Also check out America's original "third party", The Anti-Masonic Party :
http://www.dailypaul.com/...
America has never come closer to stopping them than it did over 160 years ago - and most Americans have never heard of it.
"If good government is to be restored all Masons must be purged from public office". - Rayback
What makes you believe the official conspiracy theory?
----
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi
No anwer, I see...
You'll notice that this individual endlessly bashes "conspiracy theories" but refuses to state what leads him or her to believe the official government conspiracy theory.
He/she bashes any theory (apparently) that does not tow the official government conspiracy theory line on 9/11, yet apparently does not demand that the OGCT demonstrate the qualities of self-consistency or any basis of empirical evidence. He/she talks about "different conclusions" about 9/11, but does not offer a scintilla of self-consistent or empirical evidence to support his or her "conclusion."
I guess that I should qualify my remarks by acknowledging that this individual may indeed believe that one person, acting alone, perpetrated the attacks on 11 September 2001--but since the individual in question refuses to answer (or is ignoring) the central question at hand, we are left to assume that he or she cannot cite any self-consistent, observable, measurable and empirical evidence that leads him or her to believe the official conspiracy theory.
----
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi
so..
who exactly decided that our whole revolution revolves around 9/11? I keep seeing this theme come up in the "anti-truther" section. We have conversations among ourselves about various topics that are important to us, so what? Look over to the right...conversations about china buying gold, americans being frugal, plunge protection teams, world leaders not wanting to soil their hands shaking bushces claw, you name it and it's there.
The problem IMHO is that there are a VERY FEW vocal people who can't stand the idea of like minded persons discussing 9/11. Just like there are a VERY FEW vocal people who don't like any discussion that happens to be about religion. I believe that the goals of both parties is simply to harass people for having personal beliefs that differ from their own. Either way, the aggressors are not advancing the message of freedom, liberty, and the right to be and think as an individual. I would say that simply ridiculing people for not believing the way you do is very counter productive to the revolution.
If your not interested in the subject, go on to another subject. I don't understand why that is so hard? Go explain what you think will happen "if the dow drops to 4000" or something. I enjoy this place because of all the good conversations that appear, but my revolution doesn't "revolve" around any one topic. Does yours?
You know this
is too much to ask of horatthegate don't you...this is why we continue seeing topics from them causing division, like the "9/11 truthers are always right..." thread by crustypubic.
They don't have an, or an ability to, answer to reason and common sense.
"We dare not forget that we are heirs of that first revolution" -JFK
Science and Physics are proof enough for me.
I mean Laws of Physics are called laws because they are proven not because they are considered theory..
These people get it..
150+ Senior Military, Intelligence Service, Law Enforcement, and Government Officials
630+ Engineers and Architects
150+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals
310+ Professors Question 9/11
230+ 9/11 Survivors and Family Members
Why can't you.
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion91...
Interesting
How many people trust their guts anymore or their reason? I had very little to do with politics and the government before 911. I will say this. When I was standing there on 911 watching the TV witnessing the buildings coming down. I will be honest and say that my first reaction was not " Oh my all the innocent victims" It was something doesn't look right here. I have worked in construction and have built many buildings big and small right down to a dog house. Structures like that just don't come crashing to the ground at free fall speeds without help. Period. That has not been a question since 911. The story as far as I am concerned is false and a lie. Know one will change my mind either. The only questions that I have that are un-answered is who all was behind it.
I think all those that fight for 911 truth should fight on. I also agree with other comments that and I have been saying this for 8 years now. If you want your country back and if you want the truth then you need to take back your media. Where some fight for the constitution and some fight for 911 truth. I myself and a handful of others fight for fair and balanced and truthful journalism. I know I am just preaching to the choir for the most part here. I know this though. I have been networked pretty hard on the internet. Here, on Facebook, Myspace, Break the Matrix. I would give anything to have the support that is behind Dr. Paul to rally up after we take on the Fed and focus all that attention not on bashing the media, instead we need to create a new foundation of mainstream media for the country that is on TV and can reach the same demographic as the present. I feel until we can do that we will keep beating our heads against the wall. Right now this is David and Goliath.
"I don't want to be in a battle . . . but
waiting on the edge of one I can't escape
is even worse"
Forget about the deniers.
There are other people out there who can be helped, and you can't waste your time trying to help someone who won't be helped. There's limited time left.
Let them go, and concentrate on productive efforts with those who can see..
Well said
Time for arguing and pleading is over. It's time for action. The sheep will be buried sheep. At least we will have known what really happened.
"There can be only one permanent revolution - a moral one: The regeneration of the inner man."
—Tolstoy
"I was in the delivery room in [Mombasa,] Kenya when he was born Aug. 4, 1961."
—Sarah Obama (Obama's paternal grandmother)
point well taken
ma man.
100%
agree....I personally will not waste any more of my time arguing any points with people who bury their heads up their arses.
12:32 pm CST :O)
Here's one of many architects own words who think demolition
Was used.
Henry Theodore Elden
http://www.abodia.com/911...
Real Patriots for 9/11 truth -- http://patriotsquestion91...
Ok
Just go with me for a moment... You have let everyone known that all the towers were destroyed in a controlled demolition. Everyone believes what you are saying is the undeniable truth.
Now what?
Do you have any other goal in mind other than just trying to convince people you are right?
Perhaps
all that can be done is to acknowlege that things are not as the government proposes, ask yourself why and what the goal is.
I personally can see where all that is transpiring fits Bible prophecy.
Those who have the Light need to shine it ever more brightly the darker it gets.
Here's a great place for sound, Biblical answers: http://gracethrufaith.com...
You raise a good point,
You raise a good point, since nothing can be criminally proven--there's never going to be evidence that can result in criminal indictments. And even a second inquiry would be a waste of taxpayers' money, in my opinion.
There was a largely forgotten second inquiry into the Kennedy assassination in the 1970s, and while it acknowledged "a possible conspiracy", it was still a whitewash, and reinforced the same old lies and bullshit about Oswald, the Sixth Floor, and so on.
Another 911 Commission inquiry would be no different.
In my opinion, however, confronting 911 serves an educational purpose. It teaches people to (a) distrust the federal government, and (b) distrust the media. Both are important.
Truths about Pearl Harbor, JFK, the Gulf of Tonkin, and even the Lusitania are useful in that sense. Unmasking Presidential tyrants FDR and Lincoln is very useful. Especially Lincoln, who is sugar-coated by historians and revered by ignorant conservatives and liberals alike.
People should be skeptical of our government, which has a long history of lying the nation into war.
SUPPORT OUR FOUNDERS' AMERICA
Support the Constitution of the United States
Ah, yes I agree with you.
"In my opinion, however, confronting 911 serves an educational purpose. It teaches people to (a) distrust the federal government, and (b) distrust the media. Both are important."
I agree. And this does seem to be the common theme as to why to confront people with 911 issues.
"Truths about Pearl Harbor, JFK, the Gulf of Tonkin, and even the Lusitania are useful in that sense. Unmasking Presidential tyrants FDR and Lincoln is very useful. Especially Lincoln, who is sugar-coated by historians and revered by ignorant conservatives and liberals alike."
Much easier lies to expose and less emotionally charged than 9/11.
9/11 truth is like steak. Pearl Harbor, Gulf of Tonkin and Lusitania is baby food.
I personally would like to know
what it is your trying to prove or disprove? What exactly is your problem with people who want the "truth" to get out and be known? Because so far you just sound like a 12 year old who wants to argue for the sake of arguing.
I just want to know...
What the next plan of action is.
Is there any point in letting people know a 'truth' when there is no follow through?
The action plan is 1) People learn the truth
2) People ask more questions
3) Connections start getting made--synapses fire
4) People WAKE UP!
5) People demand and expect better.
I'm not a big truther but I definitely see how going down the 9-11 path is effective in raising consciousness about the larger problem we have.
How about a Independent Investigation and then some Grand Juries
"Americans need to take a Democrap and wipe it's Republican from the history books of this once great Nation"
-Concerned Citizen
Then how do we get this started?
What exactly are we waiting on?
We are waitng for a
new administration. The terrorists in office now will thwart any attempt to get at the truth because it all points to them. 19 arabs yeah sure. The people who want to deny the facts about 911 ought to put their teeth under their pillows and wait for the Tooth Fairy. Planes do not vaporize and steel frame buildings do not turn to dust because a few Arabs hate our "freedoms". What "freedoms"?
9/11 was an inside job .....time to get some answers..RP 2008
really
I really don't get the vibe that you simply want to know "what the next plan of action is". You say we are wasting our time and could be doing something more productive.....Like what? You should have some answers with all the wisdom you pretend to have. Let's hear from you what we should all be doing since you have all the answers.
baseless claims...
When did I say you were wasting your time?
I went through all my post and have never uttered such.
"Let's hear from you what we should all be doing since you have all the answers."
I am not a dictator.
"baseless claim" corrected...sorry..you all look alike to me.
that was another one down lower...
It's not about me
it's for the people that might not know the difference because they think the media and the government is telling them the truth.
It's a selfless cause.. The more that know then the less that will be fooled and the more that will be behind bringing back Constitutional Rights and the Republic.
I'm not doing this to be RIGHT.. I'm doing it on principal.
What do you suggest I do.. Mirrior the ruthless bastards that did this and start killing people??? What the hell would that prove.
I see your point.
But why exactly is it this topic? Isn't it easier to prove that the media and gov't is lying by other means? Or less emotionally charged topics?
There are thousands of topics to prove the gov't is lying to the populace on a daily basis, that are much less emotionally charged as 9/11.
If this is all about letting people know the gov't is lying, don't you think there are more efficient ways of doing such?
I just fear that this topic is so emotionally charged that people are chased away more than they open their mind.
If what you said is your true motives, then how about changing tactics to improve your rate of awakening?
I'm not saying you have to avoid this topic but keep it on the back burner. Then after you've drawn them into the fold, unleash the truth of 9/11.
Am I making any sense?
ahh
I didn't read down far enough apparently. So your efforts are to have truthers just be quiet and wait wait wait for something extra special to happen..yeah that makes zero amount of sense.
How about YOU avoid the topic if that is how you feel. That would make sense now wouldn't it.
lol
Wasn't talking about you, Dale, or any other truther. My post was directed at Oruval and his claimed intentions.
Intention Guard?
Or...Intention Police....got it.
Can't be more productive than to question people's intentions? Surely there's an IRS building or something you can picket. Wear a coat.
Why are you so worried about productivity?
I'm am just a curious person. And I find people immensely fascinating... although you less so.
Oh...my feelings are hurt
sorry I'm not fascinating to you...I live try daily to make sure that I fascinate people, guess I'll have to rethink my outlook and try harder next time. I'm upset now. :O)
curious person who grills/questions people, yet has nothing to contribute other than trying to stir people up. I guess you would find yourself fascinating wouldn't you....glad I'm not in that company.
Have fun with your worthless conversations and input.
Although your childish wit does amuse me...
Yes, I question people.
So, now, questioning people is bad?
The conversations I've had with you are, so far, exactly as described by your last sentence and have not been fun.
You never answered me from before. I travel often and have several pathways through OK. How can I contact you privately?
Edit: I've figured it out and sent you an email.
Nope, just trust reason and logic
It's not about trusting the government. I have very little trust in the government, same as Ron Paul.
It's about using your noodle to reason things out properly. Make sure the evidence is sound. Make sure you are looking at all the facts and not conveniently ignoring evidence.
If you do this with an open mind, I don't think you could come to any other conclusion than the one Ron Paul arrives at: this was blow-back from bad foreign policy. It was not controlled demolition or other theories I've heard people pushing.
That's just it....... we
That's just it....... we "truthers" HAVE looked at the evidence, the physics, the videos, the inconsistancies of the 9/11 commission report, Building 7, the Pentagon, the use of 9/11 as a justification to wage an unconstitutional war and attack our Constitutional freedoms, etc...... I tried as hard as I could to make myself believe that Ron Paul's theory is correct. With the mentality of the American sheeple to contend with, Dr. Paul's theory is certainly the most politically expediant approach, but as things continue to go into the crapper I believe that even HE will start be more vocal in his support of a new investigation and in rational 9/11 truth. Blowback is likely 'part' of 9/11, but after spending a solid year doing constant research into what happened that day, I can come to no other conclusion: 9/11 was a false flage operation, engineered by the Bush regime and the globalist "elites", which utilized controlled demolotion and which NEVER had anything even resembling a unbiased, independant investigation. How can you look at this link and say it wasn't controlled demo???
http://www.veoh.com/video...
I respect your right to disagree, but in this instance you are wrong.
Doc Holladay
Nashville, TN
http://www.myspace.com/do...
What makes you believe the official conspiracy theory?
----
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi
You'll notice that the poster that I originally posed...
...the question to has not responded. But the individual claims to "trust reason and logic".
----
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi
Yikes
So you post the question on the 20th and then don't get an immediate answer so you assume I'm dodging your question? Wow. Simply amazing.
The fact is all of the theories I've heard from the Truther movement (free-fall, demolition charges, etc...) have been reasonably disproved. The theory that most seems to fit is that two airliners crashed into the towers, they burned and fell, spewing debris at WTC7 which then burned and fell. I supplied videos and equations in other threads to back this view up. The people piloting those airliners were al Queida members. It was blowback from a flawed foreign policy.
I haven't seen anything from the truther movement yet that fits better than the above theory.
Now just a note for you: This is growing tedious and I may not check back with this thread. If so, and if you posted a question, I may not see it. Doesn't mean I can't answer, just means I'm bored with it.
That is a non-answer to my question...
Congratulations, you have dodged the question, "what makes you believe the official conspiracy theory?"
"The theory that most seems to fit is that two airliners crashed into the towers, they burned and fell, spewing debris at WTC7 which then burned and fell. I supplied videos and equations in other threads to back this view up. The people piloting those airliners were al Queida members."
If that's true, then you should have no problem supporting these assertions here by citing the relevant supporting, self-consistent, empirical evidence.
----
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi
But I did
In numerous threads I've provided video evidence about the time it took for the towers to collapse, plus detailed equations calculating the expected free fall time. I'm not sure what more you expect.
I'm still waiting to hear some acknowledgement from someone that indeed I am correct and the building took much longer than free fall time. Not one truther seems to want to own up to this.
Since it is the government who is infringing upon our liberty...
... and perpetuating two "wars" and dismantling the remnant of our constitutional republic because (they say almost daily) "9/11 happened", the onus is on the government to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the official conspiracy theory. Granted, I wouldn't expect an official government conspiracy theorist to grasp that.
I asked "what makes you believe the official conspiracy theory?" and you respond with a priori assertions restating the official conspiracy theory (and incorrectly stating it at that, for anyone who is familiar with NIST's report on WTC7), citing no self-consistent, empirical evidence. So much for your previously asserted "trust in reason and logic".
This thread speaks for itself to anyone capable of critical and rational thinking.
----
"An error does not become truth by reason of multiplied propagation, nor does truth become error because nobody sees it. Truth stands, even if there be no public support. It is self sustained." -Mahatma Gandhi