What If - Americans got tired of going into debt to aquire STUFF?

I think you will find that in the near future the debt will be to survive instead of buying all the chinese junk. One night last week I broke one of my rules by going to a walmart after work. (being lazy and tired I thought it would be faster than going the extra 4 miles to my reg grocery store.) First time I had been in a walmart for almost a year and no it wasn't faster and it was frustrating standing in line for almost 10 minutes when at my reg store they would have opened more checkouts if there were more than 3 people in a line.
Well there were quite a few people in the store but I didn't notice that anyone was shopping for anything like Christmas gifts. (10 at night)
There were only 2 checkouts open and there were 4 or 5 customers in each line. All I saw in people's carts were groceries and other daily needs. I saw no toys, clothes or electronics. I think the useless item binge is coming to an end.

like......us peeps?

I certainly have! I need a new refrigerator and have the one I want picked out. I could take a credit card to the store today and have it this afternoon. Instead, I am saving for it. When I have the cash in hand, I will go buy it, not until. If the old one croaks before I have saved enough for the new one I want, I will buy a cheap used one to get me by until the money is in hand. Wish I had been doing that the last twenty years.

Pat

BOHICA!!

The PTB better figure a plan to deal with it.....

because Keynesian economics demands spending and borrowing rather than saving and being pensive.
It's a seriously flawed system in that respect.

Think of these words - want vs. need.

You either want it or you done - no one NEEDS anything! You don't need food - but you want it.

Otherwise, we don't NEED anything. We are only stewards while we are here.

We don't own anything as the govt. has their hands on it via taxation - land-homes-cars AND licenses - cars-hunting-fishing-sports vehicles- [insert your favorite here]

So quit using plastic to buy stuff we don't want or need!

I would be great if people stopped borrowing to consume, but there needs to be capital available to borrow for investments. Borrowing itself is not a problem, but borrowing for consumption rather than investment. Unfortunately, since the Fed can set interest rates artificially low there is a problem with overinvestment or malinvestment.

The US government and its citizens will be REFUSED credit long before they develop a preference for saving.

Same goes for the EU. When credit starts to be consistently refused, savings and thrift will suddenly start to become "fashionable" again because it will be the ONLY way to pay for stuff!

http://www.mises.org/Book...

http://www.ratical.org/ra...

Fluoride anyone?
http://uk.youtube.com/wat...

I know in my own life, I immediately stopped borrowing when I realized what I was doing. It was my fault to have wanted more than I needed and to actually purchase based on those wants with money I did not have.

I was lucky though. I woke myself up from a self induced prison, while I still had income to spare. While my debts are high, I still, fortunately, have enough monthly income to cover it and then some. When I truly realized how far I had dug myself, I decided to stop digging and start climbing out and still have the means to do so. I consider myself blessed.

I do not consider myself to be the most astute student of economics, but I figured out the borrowing game was not one that I could win. I stopped that behavior. I believe many millions more of us have reached this same conclusion. The banks have money to lend, the consumer are wishing not to consume any longer and to instead pay their debts and obligations.

Many millions of us have EVERYTHING we could need and more and it is pilling up in closets of millions of McMansions across this great land. I know as I live in a suburban McMansion cluster world. Most of the people I see around me have 4 bedrooms, 2.5 baths, 2,200 plus square feet, along with full basements. Their basements and storage areas are filled to the brink. Overflow works its way into the garage to the point that not even the frigid beginning months of winter and snow will drive many of these homeowners to clear out enough stuff from their 2 car garage to pull their cars into.

The American’s I know need nothing more other than food, clothing, a sustained income, and most importantly the rebuilding of wealth. The mean of the American I know can indeed rebuild wealth, but now that I have wakened from my come I can see who is taking my wealth in the name of the need for more credit. Credit for banks, credit for investment firms, credit for companies, credit for homeowners, and credit for consumers is being espoused by our great Washington leaders. Even if you wish to non longer subject yourself to digging into debt with more credit cards, home equity loans, signature loans, consolidation loans, and whatever other financial mechanisms that are available, the government is still forcing you to borrow anyway. They are forcing you to borrow with the monetary policy of the Federal Reserve that touches us all in the value of the dollar.

I will build my own wealth. I will fight to and get my confiscated wealth back from these blasted income taxes and will then move on to address the inflation tax.

We will still have a lot of people to educate about the deeds of our government, but I believe the remnant is larger that we could ever understand. Dr. Congressman Ron Paul is absolutely right, our numbers are indeed growing. Our country is ripe for the R3volution so don’t let the talking box of talking heads lead you to believe there is any other problem than people are wishing not to dig themselves into slavery any longer. The confidence in this scheme has been lost and the only thing that backs this fiat system is pure economical ignorance.

Talk all you can about all you know all of the time. You will be surprised on how many more people actually understand the Federal Reserve now. Once you wake up from your coma, it is impossible to go back in. One you have given yourself knowledge, it is impossible to UN-learn it.

You will never know when someone has that “Ah-ha!” moment where it all becomes clear. I can’t exactly pinpoint it other than Dr. Congressman Ron Paul’s message in the debates. From there I was off to the races and now I will do everything in my power to reeducate America one by one on the greatness of the Jeffersonian freedom and liberty message that made our country great.

I like what blogger Veronica Ray states about her idea behind the saying, “No Army can stop an idea whose time has come.”
She writes, “It is just a matter of time. The R3volution is growing and now. Every once in a while, we - America, humanity - take a giant leap forward. It may seem sudden to some or even all of us. It may seem unexpected. It may seem unbelievable. But the time comes, the stars align, the tipping point is reached, the universe cracks open, and it happens.
This is just such a moment. Look up and see it. Listen and hear it. Be still and let it speak to you. Thank your higher power that you are alive at this moment. Don't be afraid. Be amazed. And then... go forward into a whole new world. For we will never be the same again. We will be better.

The exiting of the 2008 Presidential run by Ron Paul was not the end of the idea, it was merely beginning. I loved seeing the video of Ron Paul already campaigning with a head of steam that no media biased will cool down. No media forcing of Sarah Palin down our throats will veer us off course.

I am saving myself by stopping the borrowing as I have no confidence in the fiat dollar. I think your statement hits the nail right on the head.

the world would come to a grinding halt. No, seriously...a grinding halt

In Christ,
Dave

"where the Spirit of the LORD is, there is liberty." 2 Cor. 3:17

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We couldnt sustain our economy. Everything is bought on credit. From the resources to the trash heap. Very little is paid for in full.

From James Jaeger, producer of Fiat Empire on October 19 during the height of the bailout flap:

Well done fellow Americans, you took a stand!

A 770 point drop in the Dow on 29 September 2007 just after the Congress announced a $700 billion dollar BAILOUT for the elite Wall Street Bankers. The largest single-day point drop in the history of the stock market. What does this mean? It means maybe the American public is FED UP! Maybe Main Street is fed up with Wall Street and the MONEY CHANGERS' constant siren for MORE CREDIT. Maybe Americans are reaching a point where they recognize that they don't NEED or WANT any more CREDIT and the enslaving DEBT that goes along with it!

A. Maybe they don't CARE if there is no more CREDIT for a new car.

B. Maybe they don't CARE if there is no more CREDIT for a college tuition.

C. Maybe they don't CARE if there is no more CREDIT for a new house.

D. Maybe they don't CARE if their employer can't borrow money to make payroll.

A - D has endlessly been threatened by the corporate media's talking heads in an attempt to get the American taxpayer to once again bail out Wall Street and the FIAT MONEY banking system it uses to rape and pillage endlessly.

Americans are sick of DEBT. Americans don't WANT any more CREDIT which leads to DEBT.

I couldn't agree more.

Read the rest here:
http://www.mecfilms.com/u...

************
http://www.pyrabang.com - the Patriot newsfeed machine that will take a huge bite out of Google's ad profits and put them in your pocket!

The rest is just stuff I want (or used to want). I quit spending on things I wanted because I don't want them right now. I guess that is the way most people are behaving right now.

I recently bought a car (used) because I needed a car to get to work. The old one became more expensive to keep rather than replacing. That was a need.

I don't need a wide screen TV, Never will. But I may want to buy one someday. Not anytime soon.

Just got to keep things clear about "wants" and "needs".

everyone paying off their credit cards and refusing to go into debt again?

...let us keep dreaming it. Thought determines reality.

On another note, enough with the negative )*(@)($)*(*()&! ENOUGH!

If all you can do is spout negative drivel and thought promotion you are not helping balance, which is what I thought we are after. Some people will have more some people will have less just stop trying to control each other is what I thought we are after... I know that is what I think of, and is what I know will come about. It is only a matter of time. Balance will be achieved.

An utterance and thought of mine a time or two or more: Imagine if tomorrow morning every human on the planet woke up looked in the mirror and thought and said and acted on the idea that they would no longer look outward for why they are the way they are. The would look inward to change themselves and execute the universal understanding that they are not victims! That they as a part of the human race are powerful beyond imagination. Sound like peace? I think so too.

Jesus did leave an instruction: Be nice to each other... Any questions? Obviously there are a few by the world news today...

Americans will have to go to therapy because their spending habits are frighteningly similar to that of a crack addict. Until they realize the problem and collectively go through some sort of rehab they are doomed to continue the destructive road of consumerism.

"Americans need to take a Democrap and wipe it's Republican from the history books of this once great Nation"
-Concerned Citizen

your strawman you can just discharge your debt, you don't need to pay it. all debts are public.

http://www.nmcservices.ne...

Yeah. Think of STUFF as Malinvestment for the masses. The banking cartel artificially lowers interest rates via created money. This makes it seem economical to buy STUFF on credit.

We could call this the great STUFF bubble. But the bubble took the form of a huge overabundance of STUFF rather than an increase in the price of STUFF.

Now the STUFF stores are also discovered to have participated in the malinvestment.

I haven't looked, but I'm guessing it is likely that the price of STUFF has collapsed on eBay. One can probably find good Holiday bargains there.

Also, we should expect government attempts to get people to start buying STUFF again as people were doing during the STUFF boom.

I can't imagine what they will come up with for this. Maybe it will be a subsidy for American STUFF to be sent to Africa. Certainly it will be a program to subsidize credit card companies. Maybe there will also be a law against disposing of one's STUFF (as it is bad for public landfill sites).

The Austrian program would be to permit the malinvestments in STUFF to be liquidated fast so Americans can move on to more productive economic activity.

Just law would require the owner of obsolete STUFF to pay the cost of disposing of the STUFF. But governments long ago made disposal a "public good". I guess this means they can criticize the Austrian program as an evil intention to flood landfills with STUFF.

ac

iberty yields harmony; tyrany yields chaos

as people are already lining up tonight to start shopping. Too busy charging up those credit cards to even spend Thanksgiving with their families. I am so amazed by that mentality!

Cut up all credit cards, except one with a $1000 limit at 8.99%. Also pouring every extra dime into paying off my mortgage. Selling "crap" on ebay, and using the funds to buy silver and gold. I'm amazed at how much crap my family has. Now my wife has the ebay bug too, and my garage is finally getting liquidated, as my safe box is getting too small from my silver and gold purchases (good thing I'm the Branch Manager). It's funny (not really) when I talk to people about our current crisis, they look at me like I'm nuts (except for a few that I share ideas with). It's hard trying to educate the public. I have pocket constitutions that I hand out to those willing to accept. Also my gun collection is growing too. Our pantry is being filled, and our debts are going down. Family is healthy, and neighbors are armed too. What more could I ask for. Get to know your neighbors folks. Your going to need them. Happy Thanksgiving!

What would happen? I think we would have a much worse crash than we are already experiencing. Our economy basically survives on people spending money that they don't have. Even if it happens, though, it won't be like the dark ages for long... eventually things will balance out and people will spend money again, just money that they save instead of earned. Maybe if we are lucky when that happens we will have enough money to buy up the assets of the rest of the world the same way that they are picking our bones today....

I think you ARE seeing it right now!

**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **

I think you ARE seeing it right now!

**“The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them.” ~ Mark Twain **

as possible. I like to buy stuff that I use a lot and for a long time. I also like value. I brought a Mac Mini computer, liked it so much I bought a second. On the other hand I have a van that is over 10 years old.

That the only time one considers taking on debt is if; the money borrowed will be used to make more money in return. Enough to pay the interest, taxes, fees, and put a profit in your pocket. I never understood using a credit card to buy gum. The Plumber

There is a huge problem facing this government if that is the case and that is the fact that the majority of the economy depends on Americans living far beyond their means.

I've been out of the debt trap for over 20 years and have no intention of ever stepping a foot back into it.

http://www.1776solution.b...

I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. Barry Goldwater

I think people need to start asking themselves if they really, really, really need to buy whatever they're looking at. I find myself pondering just that when I go shopping. I don't mind one bit when my inner-self says no john, put that down, NOW ! lol I know I'm saving money, so it's cool :-)

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