Vaccinations are NOT evil and Ron Paul has NOT spoken out against them!

Posted December 3rd, 2008 by spacehabitats

There is a thread on this forum that simply will not die.

The ongoing participants in the thread are obviously fanatics who are very passionate about stamping out the "evils" of vaccination and care little about how they go about accomplishing that goal.
They DO have some legitimate concerns and may even be correct about many of their points.

But as a physician, and an avid supporter and admirer of Dr. Paul, it bothers me more than a little to see his name and professional integrity MISUSED to advance their particular cause.

And the original post and its title are misleading to the point of being a flat out lie.

The name of the thread is, "Vaccinations are evil and Ron Paul HAS spoken out against them".

To which I have replied

Again I must object....
To the misleading title of this thread.

Ron Paul did NOT speak out against vaccinations IN GENERAL and certainly did NOT label them as "evil".

I would like to suggest that instead of resurrecting this same thread with the same misleading title, people who would like to post more comments about the evils of vaccination start a new thread each time.

Or would it be too hard to find a valid excuse for posting this on a "Ron Paul" website, considering that the linked article in the original post says nothing that would validate, support, or even agree with 99% of the comments in this thread?

I have no problem with your expressing your opinions, and you might even be 100% correct in most of your assertions. But I still object to the inference that DR. RON PAUL agrees with most of the opinions expressed in this thread.

As a fellow physician and a great admirer of Dr.Paul, I do not think that you should be using HIS credibility and reputation to validate your own (or any other physician's) very controversial opinions.

No amount of disclaimer or explanation buried in the depths of this thread can make up for the damage done by the title and original post.

Please have the decency to let THIS thread die, or at least edit the title and original post to remove the false implications.

Thanks.

But the thread continues, with post after post filled with histrionic, inflammatory, doctor-bashing anecdotes, and pseudo-scientific half-truths... but little or no mention of Ron Paul or his beliefs on the subject. (For the obvious reason that he has said almost nothing to support their assertions.)

I don't mind people holding contrary or controversial opinions.
I don't even mind them expressing them on the DailyPaul.
But I resent mightily their misuse of Ron Paul's name and reputation and any damage that it might do to his credibility.

Bookmark/Search this post with:

output

Freedom and Vaccines

On December 10th, 2008 stupidwrthlsboy says:

So I ask again. Do vaccines have anyplace in a FREE society?

Major pharmaceutical company GlaxoSmithKline has been accused of pressuring poor Third World parents into enrolling their children in experimental drug trials that have led to the deaths of at least 12 infants...........................................................................................
But according to Julieta Ovejero, great aunt of one of the children who died, "A lot of people want to leave the protocol but aren't allowed; they force them to continue under the threat that if they leave they won't receive any other vaccine."

The vaccine trial has also drawn accusations of corruption: The trials in the Argentinean province of Santiago del Estero were authorized under provincial Health Minister Juan Carlos Smith, brother of the lead researcher in the study.

Critics such as Ana Maria Marchese, a pediatrician at the Santiago del Estero children's hospital where the study is taking place, accuse Glaxo of using Third World children as guinea pigs.

"Because they can't experiment in Europe or the United States, they come to do it in third-world countries," she said.

http://www.republicbroadc...

That Is What Can Happen When A Person

On December 10th, 2008 MageesterMixit says:

has little interest it a particular subject: it can easily be overgeneralized!

There's only one way to settle this

On December 9th, 2008 ShannonOBrien says:

Somebody call up Ron Paul.
----------
"We will never give up. We will never give in." - Dr. Ron Paul

here

On December 10th, 2008 JohnGalt300 says:

Fortune Favors the Bold

http://www.youtube.com/wa...

Framing the argument

On December 9th, 2008 stupidwrthlsboy says:

It's amazing how the elite control us. The discussion centers on how to make them safer and who pays when the vaccines harm people instead of do free people line up for shots in their arm of any kind.

It reminds me greatly of health care. 90 percent of people I speak with will argue over the present insurance based system or a national system controlled by the government. Most of them can't even comprehend having neither. They can't even imagine just going to the doctor and paying him. In just two generations the elite have convinced Americans that they need a "system" to protect them.

The argument has now been framed so that the elite win either way. You'll see the big insurance companies fiercely coming out against "national" health care. The same way the big banks opposed the Federal Reserve Act. Trying to convince people they were against the system when all the while they were the architects and main supporters of the system. The elite at the top of the health insurance companies are quite aware that the one thing more profitable then fleecing the American people and doctors would be to fleece the federal government.

But either way they win. They have framed the argument. Americans can no longer even imagine a world without someone or something controlling their health care.

We really need to think about what being FREE is before we start demanding it. I think some (even here at the DP} proclaim the right to be free without understanding it comes with consequences. They seem to want their stuff and protection while proclaiming the right to be left alone. I don't think you can have it both ways.

You hit the nail on the head with that one.

On December 9th, 2008 veeew says:

I posted a similar thread a while back talking about the issue of "healthcare" and "coverage", explaining that I did not want any type of "coverage" that did not allow me the freedom to choose my own healthcare. In other words, Blue Cross Blue Shield is USELESS in my opinion because I do not agree with the medical machine's view of "treatment" and "health" and in most states I cannot visit the type of doctors I would choose to visit. Except in an emergency situation, I rarely ever even use my insurance. I know this was not the point of your comment, but let me go into that next. I totally agree that people have been programmed into the idea that we all need "coverage" in some way, shape, or form. The "costs" of healthcare are artificially inflated to outrageous levels BECAUSE of insurance, medicare, and the costs of malpractice insurance, etc. We don't understand the concept of free-market healthcare anymore and people think that everyone should be "covered". "Covered" under what? What system? What philosophy? Are we that naive to believe that there is only one beneficial method or system of "medicine" that is being employed at the best interest of the public? It is simplistic and naive to believe that, yet most people do. The real purpose of the system is greed - how much money can be milked off the public while keeping most people sick and on medication, killing them along the way? It is a sick system and I don't want any "coverage" underneath it. I want to see my own doctor, employ my own health regimens, and yes, I will pay for it myself. However we are at a disadvantage when a system contrary to ours already exists because the costs will continue to be artificially high for everyone due to the nature of the system and its impact on pricing. It is difficult not to live within the system that has been implemented for which everyone is expected to fall in line.

Pure Extortion

On December 9th, 2008 stupidwrthlsboy says:

They have taken the system of extorting shopkeepers on the street by "protecting" their shops against vandalism and morphed it into legalized extortion called health care. Hospitals don't even want to treat you unless you have health insurance. In other words

Pay us or die!

I seem to remember that the overall theme to The Godfather was to legitimize the mafia. Well looks like they've done a dam good job.

Jim Carrey, Jenny McCarthey

On December 9th, 2008 VoteRonPaul says:

http://www.youtube.com/re...

or conversely, youtube:

jim carrey vaccines

jenny mccarthy vaccines

jenny mccarthy oprah

Vaccinations

On December 8th, 2008 KMKOLSCH says:

I am not a doctor, but I am a lawyer, and the real evil lies with Big Pharma. The vaccines they make harm and kill our children and our government has taken away our right to redress creating an agency that protects Big Pharma by cherry picking injury that the agency compensate victims for. Even with the government shield 1.5 billion dollars has been paid for vaccine injury, so just how safe are vaccines? The agency says that there is no connection between autism and vaccinations, in spite of the fact that thousands of parents claim and can verify that their child was normal and regressed after a vaccination. Just why do "experts" discount the parents observations? Isnt' this evidence? Of course it is. If we go to bed at night and wake up with snow on the ground, do we need an "expert" to come out and tell us it snowed? How manipulated we have become. Until we can get evidence in a court of law with a jury of our peers, there will be no justice. I have no doubt that vaccines cause autism and a host of other medical problems. The reason why the "truth" is suppressed is that Big Pharma is so very good at suppression. They send out vaccine whores like Dr. Offit who fills his pockets with Big Pharma bucks while children die. In China they executed the head of their FDA and I would like to see the same thing here. Every branch of our government sold out to Big Pharma because they can spread cash with the billions they make. They have bought the experts as well. Not just for vaccine research but others including Dr. Biederman from Harvard that after lining his pockets with Big Pharma bucks claimed that a baby can be bipolar at the time it takes it's first breath and should be medicated for life. Anyone who would vaccinate their child with such corruption going on and so many unanswered questions is a fool.

Herd Culling

On December 10th, 2008 freethepawn says:

I personally think the disinformation being spread around is to cull the herd. I have read what people have posted, and I have to say I'm not impressed with the evidence against vaccination. History does repeat itself. I guess time will decide who the fool really is.

I'm not a doctor or a lawyer. I do a masters degree in science and was even working towards a PhD at one point. If we use your ridiculous argument that if thousands of people say something is true, it makes it true, we would still believe the Earth is flat. Why not do a survey of the people that haven't had a problem with vaccines? That group of millions must be "right" too.

Since you claim to be a Lawyer, show me the scientific evidence (with resources - evidence that can be reproduced using the methods within science) that vaccines cause more harm than good. You might get me to change my mind.

I'm not defending the Pharmaceutical industry. I have issues with some of the things they are doing. I also don't think anyone should be forced to get a vaccine, as there are real dangers.

From what I understand, it got to the point where no US Pharmaceutical company was willing to produce the vaccines, for legal reasons. I guess it really doesn't bring in a lot of money and the liability was high. Those of us that wanted the vaccines had to rely on foreign made vaccines. I find that unacceptable and dangerous. I resent people trying to take away my health freedom. Who can I hold responsible in a court of law if I don't have access to vaccines that could have saved a family members life?

The proof needs to come from the vaccine manufacturers

On December 10th, 2008 America Loves R... says:

....NOT us.

They have zero proof that the vaccines are either safe OR effective.

They have ZERO studies which include the unvaccinated.

Those who are prudent will NOT get their kids vaccinated because they will be nothing more than guinea pigs who are being victimized by the EVIL pharm-industry that has a HUGE history of corruption, death and destruction.

www.vaclib.org

That was one of the best writings I've seen on the daily paul

On December 8th, 2008 America Loves R... says:

You are so correct that it hurts.

I am in total shock that most Americans can't have the same logic.

And speaking of how you said, "Every branch of our government sold out to Big Pharma because they can spread cash with the billions they make", here's one fine example of that:

(Do you have your puke bags ready?)

MAINSTREAM NEWS:

U.S. Limits Anthrax Vaccine Legal Liability

From Friday, October 17, 2008

By Elaine M. Grossman
Global Security Newswire

WASHINGTON — The U.S. Health and Human Services Department early this month moved to shield government, industry and business officials from lawsuits filed by those who have received the anthrax vaccine (see GSN, Sept. 5, 2007).

Health and Human Services Secretary Michael Leavitt established legal immunity for public and private officials who oversee the production or distribution of the anthrax vaccine by declaring a “public health emergency” due to the risk of a bioterrorism attack. He said the emergency began on Oct. 1 and would run through Dec. 31, 2015.

U.S. law provides protection from lawsuits to individuals responsible for selected countermeasures, including antibiotics, during a declared emergency.

Under the Public Readiness and Emergency Preparedness Act, which President George W. Bush signed into law in December 2005, a health and human services secretary’s emergency declaration can limit financial risk for government program planners and the manufacturers or distributors of pharmaceutical countermeasures. One exception to this immunity would be willful misconduct on the part of covered individuals.

The ramifications, in this instance, could be to prevent individuals who have received one or more anthrax inoculations from taking grievances to court, based on claims that the vaccine caused severe adverse reactions or did not work.

The anthrax vaccine has proven particularly controversial following reports of serious adverse events, including some deaths, among U.S. recipients (see GSN, Nov. 21, 2005). In addition, there are some doubts about the vaccine’s efficacy in protecting people from developing anthrax after breathing in spores during a biological attack.

A 2003 lawsuit — based on lapses in the Food and Drug Administration’s drug-approval process for the vaccine — temporarily shut down the Defense Department’s compulsory anthrax shots program. Mandatory inoculations resumed in 2006 for personnel whose assignments are judged to put them at heightened risk of exposure to anthrax (see GSN, Dec. 16, 2005).

Leavitt’s declaration was published in the Federal Register and quietly heralded at the end of a two-page news release devoted largely to another anthrax-related initiative (see GSN, Oct. 2).

Among the activities now afforded liability protection are those “related to developing, manufacturing, distributing, prescribing, dispensing, administering and using anthrax countermeasures in preparation for, and in response to, a potential anthrax attack,” the HHS news release states. “This includes entities, such as large ‘big-box’ retail stores, retail pharmacies, and other private sector businesses, that help to deliver and distribute medicines.”

Health and Human Services argued the legal shield is essential to guarantee that countermeasures are there if U.S. citizens need them.

“Providing liability protection to all involved in such efforts will help ensure their full participation and bolster response efforts,” according to the news release.

“Preparedness is a shared responsibility that must involve all sectors of society, including the private sector, community groups, families and individuals,” Leavitt stated in the release. “We are using the authorities available to us to do all we can to support preparedness at all levels.”

The move comes as a pivotal advisory group convened by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention prepares to decide whether state and local health officials should consider giving anthrax vaccines to as many as 3 million civilian first responders nationwide (see GSN, Oct. 16).

Millions of U.S. military personnel have already received the vaccines since the Pentagon’s shots program began in 1997, but the law prohibits service members or their families from holding the government liable for injury or death.

Now that the population of vaccine recipients could expand to include millions of civilians — who normally do have a right to take medical injury claims to court — federal response planners and government contractors might be growing nervous about their potential legal vulnerability, according to vaccine critics.

“There are people still getting ill from side effects and from the vaccine,” John Michels, an attorney in litigation targeting the Pentagon’s inoculation program, told Global Security Newswire this week. “When they expand this vaccine from the military population to a civilian population, they’re going to have people who sue.”

Emergent BioSolutions of Rockville, Md. — the nation’s only manufacturer of an FDA-approved anthrax vaccine — recently announced that Health and Human Services had ordered 14.5 million doses of its BioThrax vaccine, worth as much as $404 million. The company is already under a $448 million contract to produce 18.8 million doses of the vaccine.

The vaccine regimen calls for six shots over an 18 month period, plus annual boosters.

Michels said commercial interests appear to be playing a role in the legal immunity issue. He questioned whether there had been any bona fide escalation in the anthrax threat sufficient to justify the declaration of an emergency.

“We have no indications [now] … that we’re much more likely to be attacked by anthrax,” Michels said. “But [government officials] see the writing on the wall. They see … an erosion of [lawsuit] immunity for vaccine manufacturers as a result of widespread civilian use.”

Meryl Nass, a bioterrorism expert who has been highly critical of federal handling of anthrax vaccine issues, accused Leavitt of taking more interest in protecting bureaucrats from legal action than in protecting the public from health threats.

“How do you decide there is an emergency when there is no evidence of one?” she asked in e-mailed comments last week.

Noting the HHS secretary’s designation of “governmental program planners” as among those afforded legal immunity by the declaration, Nass asserted that the agency “designates an emergency as a means to protect itself.”

Leavitt’s declaration, though, states that “targeted liability protections for anthrax countermeasures” are “based on a credible risk that the threat of exposure to [anthrax] and the resulting disease constitutes a public health emergency.” The document does not offer additional details on the nature or level of threat.

A request that Health and Human Services elaborate on the basis for the public health emergency declaration went unanswered at press time.

www.vaclib.org

Hi everybody

On December 8th, 2008 America Loves R... says:

I thought I'd bump the thread for the gentleman who started it.

I wonder if Ron Paul reads our stuff.

www.vaclib.org

Your child can get an exemption

On December 6th, 2008 Americana says:

Every state has exemption rules and your child can get an exemption. Here's the website.

http://www.vaclib.org/leg...

Just say it is against your religion

On December 10th, 2008 TomJefferson says:

to the school. If they ask which religion TELL them it's NONE of their business. This WILL work and has worked for a friend. Go to the school and get the appropriate exemption paperwork signed to protect your children. PASS this tip ON!!!

Most states do, two do not.

On December 8th, 2008 JBPT says:

Most states do, two do not. Mississippi and one other I don't recall at the moment.

Every state

On December 10th, 2008 Ruth says:

in the union allows at least a medical exemption, including Mississippi and West Virginia. Those are the only two states that don't allow a religious exemption. Many states also allow a philisophical exemption.

Exemptions must be allowed for legal reasons. If vaccinations were mandatory instead of mandated, the state government and the organization requiring the vaccinations (usually that's a school) could be sued for injury or death associated with a vaccination gone wrong. The exemptions are available because they put the burden back on the individuals and parents: legally the vaccination wasn't forced because an exemption was available and it's up to we people to educate ourselves before we vaccinate.

I don't believe that he said they were evil...

On December 6th, 2008 GunTrapTanDaddy says:

he just said that requiring them was unconstitutional. My kid cannot be admitted to school without proof of them. Is this right? I don't think so. I know someone that almost died from the polio vaccination. She will be affected until the day she dies. Did she get a bailout? No, but is more worthy than those getting them. She walks with a limp and basicly has limited use of her right arm. I know another girl personally that also lost her legs (amputated) as a little girl, because of required vaccinations. I believe it is a parents choice, and should not be required.

MANDATORY vaccinations are "unconstitutional"

On December 6th, 2008 spacehabitats says:

I agree.
Ron Paul agrees.

And if the poster would change his title to "MANDATORY Vaccinations are evil and Ron Paul HAS spoken out against them" then we could all link arms and sing Kum Bai Ya.

******************************
Money As Debt

http://www.youtube.com/wa...

******************************

All my title said was that.............

On December 6th, 2008 America Loves R... says:

Ron Paul has spoken out against them.

Has he NOT?

I was the one who said they are evil......not Ron Paul.

The title is in-part MY opinion, AND the fact that Ron Paul has spoken-out against specific threats they pose.

www.vaclib.org

As I have pointed out before...

On December 6th, 2008 spacehabitats says:

The distinction in your title between YOU calling them "evil" and RON PAUL calling them "evil" is too subtle for most readers (including ME).

And "HAS spoken out against them" implies a blanket condemnation of vaccination that Dr. Paul simply has never made.

I was willing to believe that this was unintentional until it became clear that you were going to continue to use THIS thread with THIS misleading title and original post as an ongoing forum for discussing your opinions about vaccination. Opinions, by the way, that go WAY BEYOND anything that the Ron Paul has ever said or even implied about vaccination.

Why don't you just start new threads if you feel that you have more earth-shaking, "must read" news about the evils of vaccination?

As I have suggested, you could even link to the original thread if you felt it contained such indespensible information that it must be preserved for posterity.

NOT doing so makes me suspect that the misuse of Ron Paul's reputation is intentional. And I will continue my "infantile" vendetta against your post until you cease and desist leeching off HIS good name and integrity to further YOUR personal cause.

******************************
Money As Debt

http://www.youtube.com/wa...

******************************

I HAVE started new ones on various vaccine-related topics

On December 6th, 2008 America Loves R... says:

Will Bird Flu Pandemic Be Spread Through Vaccine?

Bavarian Nordic has invoiced the US another $25 million to manufacture and deliver 20 million doses of smallpox vaccine

Charlotte Obsvr article ADMITS all 16 whooping cough cases WERE vaccinated

Doctors Want Boys To Get Gardasil Shot - (Yahoo News from today)

BOMBARD AUTHOR OF THIS PRO-VACCINATION COLUMN IN WND !!!

'Flying syringe' mosquitos get Bill Gates funding

HHS Emergency Declarations Exempt Vaccine Makers From Lawsuits

Warning....do NOT get your newborns Social Security Numbers

Alan Stang - "Restore Medical Freedom"

Confirmation of FLDS kids being vaccinated !!!! :(:(:(

Who is behind Quackwatch?

So anyhow, thanks for bringing that point up. I'm sure several people might find these other threads very useful.

I might also add that after reviewing all the available information that's out there on the pharm-industry, FDA, CDC, AMA, HHS, etc - for anyone to STILL think vaccines are/were good, you just don't have a pulse.

www.vaclib.org

Which state?

On December 6th, 2008 Ruth says:

Every state allows at least a medical exemption, although how easy or difficult it can be to get an exemption can vary greatly from state to state. Here's a resource site: http://home.san.rr.com/vi... know your rights and good luck.

The California whannabe state of...

On December 6th, 2008 GunTrapTanDaddy says:

Orygone.

This might help

On December 6th, 2008 Ruth says:

http://www.oregon.gov/DHS... It looks like getting a religious exemption in Oregon is pretty easy.

sorry, vaccinations ARE evil

On December 6th, 2008 Aphrodite13 says:

and whether or not RP has spoken out about them is irrelevant. Regardless of the regular mundane vaccinations that are harmful, it is now required in our school district for hepatitis and meningitis vax for K. Is that crazy? Just one of the reasons I am homeschooling. I am supposed to expose my 5 yr old to these toxins? Yikes.

RON PAUL HAS SPOKEN BY CO-SPONSORING THIS LEGISLATION !!!

On December 6th, 2008 America Loves R... says:

Ladies and gentlemen,

I bring you MORE proof that Ron Paul questions and speaks-out against vaccines.

If Ron Paul loved vaccines, as many of you falsely claim, then why would he co-sponsor the following legislation?

H.R. 2832: Comprehensive Comparative Study of Vaccinated and Unvaccinated Populations Act of 2007

Mrs. MALONEY of New York (for herself, Mr. HINCHEY, and Mr. PAUL) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Energy and Commerce

To direct the Secretary of Health and Human Services to conduct or support a comprehensive study comparing total health outcomes, including risk of autism, in vaccinated populations in the United States with such outcomes in unvaccinated populations in the United States, and for other purposes.

6/22/2007--Introduced.
Comprehensive Comparative Study of Vaccinated and Unvaccinated Populations Act of 2007 - Requires the Secretary of Health and Human Services, acting through the Director of the National Institutes of Health (NIH) , to conduct a comprehensive study to: (1) compare total health outcomes, including the risk of autism, between vaccinated and unvaccinated U.S. populations; and (2) determine whether vaccines or vaccine components play a role in the development of autism spectrum or other neurological conditions.
Requires the Secretary to seek to include in the study U.S. populations that have traditionally remained unvaccinated for religious or other reasons.

Full Text of Bill at This Link

.
.

www.vaclib.org

Thank you for this reply...

On December 6th, 2008 spacehabitats says:

Which is at least ON TOPIC even if you seem to have missed my point.

If Ron Paul loved vaccines, as many of you falsely claim, then why would he co-sponsor the following legislation?

I never CLAIMED that Dr. Paul "loves" vaccines or believed that they are without risks.
This bill seems to be asking for a study to see if there is a link between vaccines (or vaccine components) and autism.
I think this is a GREAT idea.
The more information we (patients AND doctors) have, the better decisions we can make about our health care.
This only shows that Dr. Paul is a thoughtful physician and congressman.

Have any of you ever heard me say that vaccines were free of side effects or had NOT caused autism?
No.

But your comment about "If Ron Paul loved vaccines" etc. is a classic example of the love/hate, good/evil, black/white hyperbole that reduces a very complex and subtle issue to soundbite stupidity.

And it misses the primary issue for libertarians; that we should all have CHOICE about whether to vaccinate our children.

******************************
Money As Debt

http://www.youtube.com/wa...

******************************

LIVE FREE OR DIE

On December 4th, 2008 stupidwrthlsboy says:

I agree. We should be very careful about using Dr. Paul's name in headlines. Some people never read passed them.

Concerning this constant vaccine argument.

It's not Live Free until I'm sick. It's not Live Free unless I'm poor. It's not Live Free unless I may get a illness. It's Live Free or Die for a reason. Land of the Free and Home of the Brave! Free not just because of the brave but because we all are brave!

The argument needs to stop being about vaccines and there validity. We all can find report after report to back up either side of the story. The argument is do they belong in a free society. Working or not working.

It is said that if you give government the power to give you everything than you also give government the power to take everything away.

So it follows:

If you give science the power to inject you with a needle to cure you of everything you also give science the power to inject you with a needle to sicken you with everything.

What?

On December 4th, 2008 JohnGalt300 says:

Fortune Favors the Bold

I don't understand that at all.

You're saying technology has no place in a free society? explain. This seems like an oxymoron.

Do not forget

On December 5th, 2008 stupidwrthlsboy says:

Orwell said the NWO or the global dictatorship will be scientific. Rule by Science. So maybe I am saying that.

They named them CELL phones for a reason you know. In fact they will give you one for free if you just sign up for the plan. Kind of chilling word play when you think about it.

Our modern world of technology is very new and unproven. People have lived for thousands of years without it. Science and technology always offer new, easier and faster ways of doing things. Given to us with good intentions.

Of course the path to hell is paved with good intentions.

I agree - 100%

On December 5th, 2008 America Loves R... says:

Of course we are all guilty of partaking/enjoying the new technology. But to be honest - I'm trying to figure out how to start living like the Amish before my family is FULLY enslaved by the technological slavecamp we are assembling.

They won't need prisons.

www.vaclib.org

There is nothing wrong with

On December 5th, 2008 hawkiye says:

There is nothing wrong with technology it's who controls most of it that is the problem. Technology is just tools like any tool it can be used for good or evil.

I Just don't wan't to have to pay some power broker who gained control of it by deception for it's use. I want to be free to choose what technology I use or not use and be able to get it as cheaply as I can.

-----
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken

Get Prepared!

Freedom is not a choice of consumer goods

On December 6th, 2008 stupidwrthlsboy says:

at a cheap price. That's consumerism. The illusion of choice does not mean you are free.

The good or evil argument is an old and tiered one. We all know that eventually they will be used for evil.

A man could own a horse and it was his.

The car came along and a man could own one and drive it. Then he needed a loan to buy it. Then he needed license to drive it. Then he needed insurance to drive it.Then he needed to have it inspected to yearly to drive it. Then he had to have the exhaust tested to drive it. Then he could be stopped by the police and ticketed for driving it wrong. Then he must share ownership with the state he lives in. Then they look in his car to make sure he's waring his seat belt or can be pulled over and searched if not. What's next?

You still have many choices at all kinds of prices.
This is not an example of Freedom.
This is an example of acceptable slavery.

Immune System - 101

On December 4th, 2008 America Loves R... says:

The following info generally explains why people succumb to disease - and it's not due to lack-of-vaccinations.

******************************************************************

THE BENEFICIAL NATURE OF CHILDHOOD INFECTION

http://www.vaclib.org/sit...

In order to understand how childhood infection can actually be beneficial to a child's health, it is essential to have a clear understanding of the symptoms of infection and their real purpose. Whenever a child develops measles, chicken pox, whooping cough or any of the other common childhood infections, it will experience several of the following symptoms;

Fever - speeds up bodily elimination of toxic waste.

No Appetite - when a fever is present, the digestive system shuts down thus removing the need and desire for food.

Vomiting/Diarrhoea - the body's way of eliminating undigested foodstuff from the digestive tract.

Tiredness/Lethargy - the body's way of forcing a sick person to rest thus conserving its energy for the vital tasks of cleansing and repair.

Glandular Swelling - the lymph glands filter the blood for toxic substances. Swelling of these glands greatly increases their filtering capacity.

Skin Rash - represents an elimination of toxic waste, the skin being a major eliminative organ.

Mucus Elimination - also an elimination of toxic waste. Mucus is made up of the body's white blood cells which are the body's garbage cans containing toxic residue. A good example is the runny nose.

Inflammation - serves the same purpose as fever, to cleanse and repair damaged or poisoned tissue in the body.

In reality, the symptoms do not constitute the disease but the cure. In other words, measles is not the disease but the cure. Whooping cough is not the disease but the cure. Chicken pox is not the disease but the cure. The real disease is Toxaemia out of which the symptoms arise. This will explain the words of Hippocrates, who to this day is referred to as the Father of Medicine. Over 2000 years ago he wrote;

"Diseases are crises of purification, of toxic elimination. Symptoms are the natural defences of the body. We call them diseases, but in fact they are the cure of diseases."

By clearly understanding the true purpose of symptoms, the beneficial nature of childhood infections becomes readily apparent. These so-called infections serve to restore internal purity thereby promoting the health of the child. This will explain why natural health practitioners make no attempt to suppress these symptoms, instead they believe that the symptoms should be allowed to run their course so that complete detoxification is achieved.

On the other hand, should these symptoms be suppressed by medical drugs or other suppressive measures, then the body will be forced to retain within its own tissues the poisonous wastes that it is striving to remove. This can not only result in increased suffering and complications, but it can lay the foundations for chronic disease in later life. If you know of a child who has ever suffered complications or died from a childhood infection, then find out how the child was treated, for in the opinion of many doctors, it is incorrect treatment including suppressive drug therapy that lies behind most complications and fatalities. In many cases poor underlying health is also a factor.

******************************************************************

www.vaclib.org

Yes

On December 4th, 2008 JohnGalt300 says:

Fortune Favors the Bold

In fact, parents who try to insulate their children from all environmental stresses wind up with children with under-developed immune systems.

Everyone is arguing semantics...

On December 4th, 2008 elrococco says:

Vaccines are great. They jumpstart your immunine system into creating antibodies and seem to have some positive effects if the "bug" in them doesn't kill you. But, what will kill you is the MERCURY in the vacines, and the cancer causing viruses in the vaccines, and the ingredients they try to use to cross the cellular membrane like ebola. No, vaccines aren't necessarily bad for you, a half dead flu bug probably won't kill you, but watchout for the mercury-cancer-ebola crap they use as filler. Hell, the aluminum salts are bad enough. But, if you want to get vaccinated, have your babies and children vaccinated, then go right ahead. I'll try not to trip over your dead ass on my way out of town. And, by the way, don't expect me to let you tell me, via government mandate, that I or my family will have to be subject to vacinations-mercury-cancer-ebola. If you're already vaccinated then why do you care if I am? You won't get sick will you? Maybe you'll have to look out for my dead ass on your way to the FEMA camps. Think for yourselves folks...

Assert Your Authority

i have the slim jim with Ron speaking about vaccines.

On December 4th, 2008 Big Naughty says:

he sure doesn't seem pro vaccination to me

Ron Paul on VACCINES

On December 4th, 2008 cultivator says:

Ron Paul on VACCINES, CODEX AND HEALTH FREEDOM

Americans are justifiably concerned over the government's escalating intervention into their freedom to choose what they eat and how they take care of their health.

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA), in order to comply with standards dictated by supra-national organizations such as the UN's World Food Code (CODEX), NAFTA, and CAFTA, has been assuming greater control over nutrients, vitamins and natural health care providers to restrict your right to choose the manner in which you manage your health and nutritional needs.

I have been the national leader in preserving Health Freedom.

I have introduced the Health Freedom Protection Act, HR 2117, to ensure Americans can receive truthful health information about supplements and natural remedies.

I support the Access to Medical Treatment Act, H.R. 2717, which expands the ability of Americans to use alternative medicine and new treatments.

I oppose legislation that increases the FDA's legal powers. FDA has consistently failed to protect the public from dangerous drugs, genetically modified foods, dangerous pesticides and other chemicals in the food supply. Meanwhile they waste public funds attacking safe, healthy foods and dietary supplements

I also opposed the Homeland Security Bill, H.R. 5005, which, in section 304, authorizes the forced vaccination of American citizens against small pox. The government should never have the power to require immunizations or vaccinations.

That was definately not

On December 4th, 2008 chonk123 says:

a claim that vaccines are evil. That was speaking out about government mandates on your health care choices. he believes you should have the choice of what and what not to put into your own body and your childrens.

you are a doctor? ah aha ha hha ah hhahahahah

On December 4th, 2008 cultivator says:

Vaccine Nation - Director's Cut
http://video.google.com/v...

For most people, vaccinating themselves and their children seems like a good idea. Vaccines are safe, effective and are supposed to protect us against dangerous infectious diseases - Right? Wrong! What you don’t know can harm you or kill you! In this groundbreaking film, you will: * See the truth about the dangers of vaccines and their direct relationship to autoimmune diseases, infections, allergies and a massive increase of developmental learning and behavioral disorders in children, such as Autism. * Discover the truth about the history of vaccines and how they have NEVER been proven to be safe and effective for anyone. * Witness the legacy of governmental deception and cover-ups associated with vaccines. * Learn about the corruption within the scientific community and how vaccine studies are seriously flawed. * You’ll also follow heart-wrenching, real life stories of the parents and children devastated by the effects of vaccines. Join director Gary Null PhD and over 40 of the worlds foremost vaccine experts in this shocking expose’ that will shatter the truth as you know it. DVD copies are available at www.garynull.com

you should have seen my sons reaction to shots at 2 days and 2 weeks old... woulda knocked your little doctor socks off.

oops forgot to take my doctor prescribed pills today!

I don't bother even looking at threads like,

On December 4th, 2008 zrih1 says:

"Vaccinations are evil and Ron Paul HAS spoken out against them".

Obviously, people who think that vaccinations are evil don't believe in modern medicine at all and are anti science, technology, medicine and innovation.

I really need to quit visiting the Daily Paul. More and more I am getting discouraged by what I read on this site.

you too?

On December 4th, 2008 Dale in Oklahoma says:

I just stop by every once in a while now....we used to be a freedom loving group with our aim on liberty...now it is a group just like all groups...your ok, as long as you think and believe just like everyone else....it isn't enjoyable any longer.

No sure what you are reading

On December 4th, 2008 hawkiye says:

No sure what you are reading but this happens to be one of the most diverse groups on the net with the freest conversation.

It seems a lot of folks here can't tolerate people disagreeing with their long held beliefs and even though these same people now see many things they believed all their lives are not true they still refuse to question other areas they have believed or at least objectively look at the evidence. Rather they just come and try and ridicule or at least speak somewhat condescendingly about the perceived degradation of the DP because a small few of the hundreds who frequent here happen to disagree with them on something...

If you really want to see a forum the requires everyone to believe as they do try Free Republic that will hopefully give you a new appreciation of the DP or at least some real perspective.

-----
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken

Get Prepared!

Don't worry, there are sane people here

On December 4th, 2008 bbagnall says:

A lot of people here tend to go overboard and have black-white beliefs in everything. Most people here understand that vaccines are generally good but the point is they should be 100% voluntary. No one should be forced to take any medication.

Yeah never mind the evidence

On December 4th, 2008 hawkiye says:

Yeah never mind the evidence just repeat your understanding based on what? What you have been told but never bothered to question...Sigh!

-----
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken

Get Prepared!

Ok, what are you saying then?

On December 4th, 2008 bbagnall says:

Are you saying all vaccines are evil? That people should not be allowed to take them? Are some good and some are bad? Please tell us exactly what you mean.

trolling?.

On December 4th, 2008 cw canadian says:

bbagnall, aren't you getting discouraged that noone is falling for your superior wisdom here?

"Please tell me exactly what you mean?"
There are courses that teach this kind of questioning

Oh God

On December 5th, 2008 bbagnall says:

Don't tell me - you think vaccines are also evil? I'm starting to think youa re nothing but a tin-foil hat wearer.

I have said it already

On December 4th, 2008 hawkiye says:

I have said it already there is no evidence any vaccine works as claimed. none not for a single one! This is from their own data not some trumped up crap.

People sit here and argue back and forth no it isn't, yes it is, blah blah. Just do the research your self and settle the issue in your own mind once and for all instead of just repeating what you believe because you have been told something but never verified it.

I told the OP to do the same thing thinking gee he claims to be a doctor maybe he'll actually look at the evidence and do the research and he pops back in and claims the scientist who did the research are crackpots without a even looking at their findings at all. What kind of an idiot does that?

-----
Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. H. L. Mencken

Get Prepared!

Vaccinations are NOT evil and Ron Paul has NOT spoken out against them!

Comment viewing options

Navigation

User login

Active Forum Topics

Recent blog posts

Recent comments

Who's online

Online users