Crisis as Canada's PM Shuts Down Parliament
Posted December 4th, 2008 by celeste
output
These are indeed interesting times.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/...
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Online petitions
I realize that online petitions aren't a true barometer of how 'everyone' feels,
but,
an online petition opposing the coalition has raised over 290,000 names ...
a petition supporting the coalition has raised about 30,000.
And fellow Liberals are already lining up, drawing the long knives, and gazing at Dion's back.
The coalition idea appears to be already imploding.
i'm super glad this has happened.
people can be so dumb here. they totally think the queen has no power. they think the monarchy is 'just' a figure head.
but WHO did harper have to go to for PERMISSION?? gee... the QUEEN'S representative.
sooooo not cool.
i think this is a FABULOUS opportunity to do some education with friends and family 'cause everyone is talking about the coalition but totally missing the monarchy connection.
i know...this is why i said
i know...this is why i said below that canada is a joke. People dont seem infuriated that basically the Queen has shut down Parliament...
The Queen did no such thing.
There is a procedure. The Queen couldn't give a crap and didn't even get involved. It was the G-G's job to call her and that was that. It would be more infuriating had she stepped-in and stuck her nose in Canadian politics by usurping the PM's role -- which she did not.
I don't like monarchies, but you're making more out of this than need be. The attention should be on the PM and parliament.
The government shut down for 2 months. That's GREAT!
I'm happy my government won't be passing any new laws for 2 months. I wish they could fight like this all the time. With them out of the way the country would be free. Conservatives, Liberals, NDP and the Greens are all socialist. All of them love to redistribute wealth once they have power. I wish we had a Ron Paul but we don't. Right now we have no principled representatives. Frankly, the Bloc has more principles than the rest of them because at least it's honest about trying to take as much as it can for the people it represents.
I'm tired of the BS that we put up with. I'm tired of punitive income and sales taxes. I'm tired of theft of our money through inflation. I'm tired of the protectionism, of being forced to listen to the Canadian music that I'm being taxed to subsidize. And the same with TV.
We have to get organized and spread the message of liberty here in Canada. And we better give whatever support we can to our friends in the US because we all know it wouldn't last long if Canada became free and the US didn't.
Yes they are all socialist...
Still, our system provides that a government which no longer enjoys support can be thrown out in a Commons vote.
In my view, that is a GOOD thing.
As of this week, there is a legal precedent which stops that process and in my view, builds a foundation for the beginning of dictatorship.
Basically Harper said:
If you are going to gang up and get rid of us by voting No Confidence then we are going to close down parliament so you can't do that.
This is uncharted territory,
and of course all they laws they need for tyranny are already in place.
What Canada needs for the lot of us libertarians to get off our lazy a**es and educate and organize.
Well said man!
this is great!
And you're dead on about the the 5-party system (Canada is 3 up on you Americans!).
All parties accept the tenets of social democracy. The only deviation from this is that Conservatives have a slight militaristic bent.
And yes, the Bloc is the best party of them! Why? They want to secede!
Quebec and the Bloc
I like how you put that.
Since the Bloc gained power and in response to the 1995 referendum the federalists have responded by bribing Quebec. Here's a government site about "provincial equalization payments": http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDP...
The province of Quebec got 58% of the total money in 2007. The other receivers of money from the rest of the provinces are: Newfoundland & Labrador, Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Manitoba. None of those even have a major city. The federalists are using the welfare/dependence tactic against our second most populous province! I don't think I have to explain to DP readers why welfare is bad for both the taxpayer and the "benefit" receiver.
I also think it's interesting to note that in 1995 Quebec starting its own currency was never on the table. One of their logos was "Oui" where the O was a loonie. (tails side, of course) (For our American friends, "Oui" is French for "Yes" and the loonie is slang for our one dollar coin. The head side of course features the Queen) It was explicitly stated in the separatist platform that they would keep the Canadian Dollar as legal tender. It seems it's OK to challenge the Federal Government, but it's not OK to challenge its banking establishment.
discouraging
i dont know where to being...this is so depressing. It seems that Canadians have been so brainwashed by the american msm that they dont even understand that they have a different political system than the united states...
yes Harper was elected but so were the other members of Parliament, and his party does not have a majority...they have less than 50%, actually 36% so in fact saying "the canadian people voted for him" is utterly false the fact is that the canadian people DID NOT vote for him i.e. he does not represent the MAJORITY...in this situation the other parties can form a coalition etc...
i dont know having Parliament shut down by the GG is just humiliating...i wonder if the Queen herself could even shut down British Parliament. What a joke...
Thank you for your post
Isn't it the truth!
Would the Queen do it?
Would they dare ask her?
Michelle Jean is a lovely and charming lady. Period. Why she is govenor general is beyond me.
The Brits like to be seen to have integrity. They have pride. Not so Harper. His pragmatic. He does what it takes. Then he does the fancy sidestep dance over and over and over.
just think if even Canadians
just think if even Canadians are this brainwashed by the msm to not even understand their own system what hope do we have for americans???
Ron Paul
Is still our hope for us and the world.
Crisis in Canada - (wannabe) Fascist Coup
Yep, there is SOMETHING of a crisis in Canada;
a couple of years ago, the long-time ruling party (very pro-socialist, high-tax, high-regulation advocates) was caught on corruption charges, and the opposition called for the Governor General to fix it; the governor general has two options in this case:
1) Call a new election
2) Make the opposition party the ruling party (by decree)
In that case, the GG called a general election: the Canadian people elected the opposition (although somewhat in minority: of the 4.2 major parties, the opposition got 40% of the vote).
Once in power, the opposition lowered taxes, decreased spending, and got to work deregulating several industries; our last ruling party didn't like this, so two months ago they tried the same thing, to bring down the government by election, only this time it didn't work: the opposition got re-elected, this time with 46% of the popular vote. Woops.
So that was two months ago; the opposition has basically said that as one of the most (the most, depending on who you ask) economically stable countries on the planet, we should stick by our hero's advice: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" [Red Green, cdn. comedy tv show]
So the government has been trying to not hemorrhage money into banker/corporate pockets; has been trying not to enact masses of new control legislation over the financial industry; and (on a sidenote) just recently has been trying to cut government subsidies to political parties.
Actually, that last one was a "bridge to far" for our old ruling party. They want to kick out the opposition bad, but since last time they tried (two months ago) using an election the Canadian people actually INCREASED their support for the opposition (coming close to majority, no small feat in a 4.2 [liberal, conservative, ndp, block, green/independent] party system), obviously the Canadian people can't be trusted to elect the right people in a democratic election.
So, the old ruling party has picked up some backbenchers, 3rd and 4th party candidates, and wants the governor general to kick out the opposition but this time, skip the election; just declare by decree that the old ruling party is back in power.
To be fair, the opposition party isn't perfect either: since joining RP, I've realized they have a hand in some things I don't agree with; but less than the old ruling party. An example? Its true, the opposition party HAS put (tepid) support behind the NAU; but its the old ruling party who first signed it three (3) years ago, and had given it a lot more than just tepid support!
That's true, but there's no need to be partisan
Your rough time line of events is fair enough. It's true that in some ways the Conservative Party has policies more in line with liberty than the Liberal Party. Sometimes not though. We have to be careful not to fall into the trap of choosing between losing one freedom or losing another.
Example1: After a shooting in Quebec, Liberal leader Stephan Dion said he would ban guns not used for hunting. Harper said he would not and suggested Dion was exploiting the tragedy. ref: http://www.nationalpost.c...
Example2: Conservatives want to pass a DMCA in Canada. They refuse to answer any specific questions about how it will affect individual Canadians. It's obviously being lobbied for by the US entertainment industry. The NDP was particularly in opposition to this. ref: http://www.cbc.ca/technol...
Example3: Afghanistan. Conservatives want to fight in Afghanistan. (They wanted to fight in Iraq too, but Liberals were in power then) The liberals are willing to continue fighting for years more. ref: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/...
As you can see there's no point in supporting the current political parties just as there is no point for Americans to view Republicans and Democrats a a real choice. Defending one and attacking another just plays into their hands. All of them believe in:
- redistributing wealth from those who earn it to those who do not.
- fighting foreign wars based on the "authority" of the UN
- not allowing you to travel within your own country without identification. A charter right by the way.
- taxing property you acquired outside of Canada and calling it "protecting the Canadian Economy". Also allowing warrentless searches of you for that purpose.
- forced government schooling to brainwash your children.
- fractional reserve banking
- holding of fiat US dollars as reserves in the Bank of Canada.
- regulating radio and TV such that 30% of content must be Canadian. Nevermind that Canada is only 10% the size of the US and that skilled creators of entertainment are naturally going to gravitate to one place.
They only disagree on minor points of forwarding that agenda.
first post in 33 weeks
If I weren't so polite I woujld say what I think about why you are posting.
Someone went to a fair but of trouble on this one.
Harper is a puppet.
What flavour is the koolaid this week?
Sorry I won't be engaging in dialogue today, I have a REAL written argument due before the end of the day.
Dion and Layton are chasing the Bloc,
as if the Bloc is a bitch in heat !
Anything to try and get some power ! Damn the torpedoes - full speed ahead !
The time has come for Western Separation !
See what Canadians are actually saying.
This is a petition with comments allowed. Check it out.
If you are Canadian sign the petition.
Click on "view signatures" to see what Canadians are saying.
http://www.petitiononline...
A poll just released by Global News
at 8:30 EST 4 Dec 2008
shows only 29% of Canadians are in favor of a coalition government.
Canwest Global
huge conglomerate
The past two days have seen the poll wars on several Canadian media sites. Don't believe it.
Will the Governor-General sack the PM?
And, will a new election have to be called?
too soon to say ...
if Parliament ever resumes that is....
The last time it happened was in Australia back in 1975.
The Aussies still love to discuss/debate it.
The Governor-General dismissed the PM without warning (not necessarily without cause, however). He was afraid if the PM went crying to the Queen, the G-G himself would be sacked.
Parliamentary politics is so much fun. Like a bunch of kids in the playground.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w...
Anyway, keep us posted.
MSNBC got it all wrong
MSNBC got the facts a little twisted: "The opposition was also outraged by a government proposal to scrap public subsidies for political parties, something the opposition groups rely on more than the Conservatives."
More like that was the only reason the opposition banded against him. He was trying to cut off public funding to all political parties, including his own, but the other parties are in huge debt from overspending during elections. They are freaking out about this.
For some reason MSNBC wants to give the impression that it's because he "didn't do enough" to protect the economy. That's BS. MaybeMSNBC wants to encourage other politicians to "do something".
When the NAU comes to pass,
When the NAU comes to pass, will Queen Elizabeth II be the head of State???
I've Wondered About This Myself
Maybe the elite have thought this through? Wrap your head around the following scenario: A North American Union, comprised of Canada, America and Mexico (Can-U-Sexicana as I like to call it); The British Queen as head of state, with Obomba as Prime Minister.
Ugh, what a horrible thought. It'll never happen. The American people will never allow theirselves to be ruled by the British again, and yet the Queen will never give up he role as supreme overlord of Canada. So therefore, no NAU? Right? Maybe? Who knows?
Of course, this is all theoretical.
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Your site sucks. Stop spamming us.
.
It is a disgrace that
our appointed Govenor General allowed him to close Parliament just because he is in rouble. It is called Prorogueing. It is meant for times late in a session when things have stalled and a break is needed to bring back a finished bill,etc. It has never been used by Prime Ministers who want to avoid a No Confidence vote which will throw them out of power. What a mistake and what a terrible precedent to be set.
We are allowed to get rid of government that doesn't work. It is (or was?) one of the only saving graces of a Parilamentary democracy.
If the majority of the elected members of the House vote that they have no confidence in the ruling party its bye bye to the PRime Minster and his party. Either they are replaced or we have another election. Period. The "Conservatives" say Harper was elected to be Prime Minister. Twadle. How stupid does he think Canadians are. The party with the most elected members forms government and their leader becomes Prime Minister. Harper says if the coalition forms government it will be treason. Excuse Me? The govenment being run by a majority of elected members from different parties who agree to get along, is not treasonous.
Now we have to wait until January to get rid of this scumbag. I bet my lunch money that the first vote in January will see him thrown out. Good. The parties in the coalition are going to have to listen to Canadians and get along. Its a good thing.
I just have to wonder why the GG kept him in power. Always looking for a conspiracy...
Think harder about this
Canadians did not elect Stephane Dion as their Prime Minister. They elected Harper. Now these fools from the NDP and Liberal Party, socialists all of them, are trying to play games to steal democracy. And you support them?
Harper pissed in their cereal by removing state funding for elections, something we should all agree with here. Now they are wanting revenge for that. That's what this is all about.
I am very clear thank you,
having done quite well in constitutional law. You are the one who needs to think hard about it. But I am not holding my breath.
No. Canadians did not elect Harper as their Prime Minister. Harper is a member of Parliament. One guy. A certain number of people in his ridiing voted for him. A certain number of Canadians voted for other Conservative members. More did not. Harper is only prime minister because he is the head of the party which formed a minority government. Minority governments by their nature are prone to votes of non confidence since there are more elected members who do not belong to their party than who do. This IS democracy. It IS NOT stealing democracy. That disparate bunch, actually a majority, are perfectly entitled to form a coalition and overthrow the government, even if Harper doesn't like it. He tried to do the same thing in 2004, with the Bloc!
If Harper had any b*lls he would have done what every other Prime Minister in his position has done in the history of Canada, stay and allow the voting process to follow its course. Usually an election follows a no confidence vote. We aren't there yet. Harper is a coward and a control freak. He does not have the character to lead this country.
BTW he also is full of hot air. I don't think I have ever heard so many platitudes, distortions of the truth or outright msirepresentations strung together in one speech as in his speech.
Nowhere did I say I supported the coalition with respect to policies. I support their right to have a vote. I am commenting on the integrity of our democracy. The issues are an entirely different topic which I have not raised.
I have clearly stated my view on this thread three times now. I expect you really have no interest in my posts. Go ahead and spread your propoganda. I won't participate.
Finally, I was not aware that Haprer pissed in their cereal. Who's cereal? What kind of cereal? That's disgusting.
Prorogueing.....gotta get me some of that
can I get that in a sentence? How is it pronounced anyway?..LOL
Personally I like Liberty prorogueies...
filled with cheese and covered with sour cream...
but here we have a neo-conservative fascist prorogueie full of sour grapes...
Why can't they get it right?
AHHHH HAAAA AHHHHHH HAAAAA !!!!
WAIT... STOP... My sides are splitting!!! and I just had a mouthful of prorogueies. Guess I'll have to clean that up.
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. Thomas Jefferson
Ah...
You mean PEROGIES!!!!!!! A fine Polish food if ever there was one!
Perogies for Ron Paul!!!!
at least you can eat perogies...
mmmm. Fry em up in butter....
mmmmm
cheese and sour cream...now that I can get with...LOL
Even better with bacon!
Even better with bacon!
While I don't care for
While I don't care for Harper or the Conservatives in general, he's doing the right thing here. What the opposition has tried to do is deceitful and tantamount to spitting in the face of Canadians west of Ontario (where the majority of Canadians east of Ontario think Canada ends).
If the Dion Liberals and the NDP get their way, they will start throwing as much money at the economy as the US and will destroy the Canadian dollar. They want nothing less than to make western Canada (the non-financial-sector-reliant-and-still-doing-well-economically part) to bail out the foolishness and excesses of Ontario and Quebec, like they always do. And because the Conservatives have such a following in the West because of these very reasons, it effectively pits these other parties against the Conservatives, which is why they would rather band together COMPLETELY across ideological lines against the Conservatives than to work with them.
What they really are mad at is two-fold - first, the fact that Harper wants to oust public financing of political parties (a notion with which I agree for both Canada and the US, by the way) and, second, that in the recent election they lost even more seats to the Conservatives and now can't get their excessive socialistic agendas passed. And they won't be happy until Harper turns on the tap of the Bank of Canada and drowns these present economic woes with a complete financial collapse.
Complex issue. I'm from
Complex issue.
I'm from Ontario, and I like Alberta because of its fiscal conservativeness.
What I don't like about the conservative party is their Neocon like stance in regard to foreign policy, if they were in power in 2003, we'd be in Iraq right now.
Also, the fact that they are all aboard the globalist band wagon, with Steven Harper supporting NAU initiatives behind closed doors, is clearly very distressing.
Though I suppose that the Liberals or maybe the NDP would support that as well, but I digress.
I do find it very disturbing that Steven Harper thinks that shutting down parliament is an acceptable way of dealing with a government that does not support him.
With that said, I also believe that the opposition is the "tyranny of the masses" at work in this case.
Endless social spending will only make this problem that much worse, and I would rather see Alberta separate so that it can prosper on its own, versus having it be forced to finance the entire mess.
Another thing that I think that is highly disturbing about this entire situation is the fact that we have to follow the orders of some stupid bitch appointed by the Queen.
Oh how I loath the Queen of England....
Canadians were the Redcoats who were too big of pussies to revolt.
thanks for your post
it reminds me that we're all in the same boat. all over the globe. everybody
the "right thing" NOT
The Right Thing is to follow the rules and standard procedures of Parliament and face the music when the house has lost its confidence in you. That is tradition. It REALLY does not matter WHY the House lost confidence in the "Conservatives" or who is right or wrong in anyone's opinion. The ELECTED House members are entitled to a vote here.
Harper went running to the GG to avoid an imminent vote of non-confidence. He wants to hang on to power. The elected members who speak for the MAJORITY of Canadians no longer want him in power. There is nothing deceitful here. There is nothing unlawful about the coalition. Harper and the conservatives are poor losers. They need to start telling the truth here, instead of trying to blame their self created demise on others. Haprer is a yellow bellied coward who is running scared. I cant't wait for that vote. Oh and by the way, I am from Western Canada. My life has been spent in Saskatchewan and British Columbia. I don't know anyone who supports Harper.
BTW see my comments above.
Yeah right
You are from Sasketchewan and British Columbia and you can't find anyone who supports Harper? Give me a break. Conservatives dominated the elections West of Ontario. That's just nonsense.
DON'T you call me
a liar or say that what I have said is nonsense. I don't know anyone who supports Harper. Got that?! I don't go out and try to find them.
Watch yourself, inbecile.
Statistically I find it improbable
I guess maybe you don't know very many people. Or you hang out with socialists who vote for Liberal and NDP candidates. Why would you come here if you like hanging out with socialists?
Do you work as a bill collector for a living?
I give you no licence to attack me or my credibility. I do not answer to you.
You are inappropriate, presumptuous, pushy and rude. Your cross examination skills are terrible. Grow up.
Terribly sorry for questioning you
I never realized we are not allowed to question statements made in the forums. How rude of me. Heads up everyone! Anything said by cw_canadian must not be questioned in any way. He is 100% correct in everything he says. So when he says that he knows no one in Saskatchewan or BC who voted for Harper even though the Conservatives dominated those provinces, we are supposed to take his word over verifiable facts.
Permission from the constitutional founders
An association of men who will not quarrel with one another is a thing which has never yet existed, from the greatest confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry. Thomas Jefferson
there is debate, quarrelling, argueing
IF it has substance, fine by me. I argue for a living. I love it.
But then there are disinformation shills. I won't debate with them because it is like putting information into a sinkhole, you keep hoping to make a foundation for an interesting discussion will ensue. Instead, you get name calling, character attack, side stepping issues by invoking authority, misstating your postion; and trying to gang up on anyone who calls them out.
Here is the article "Ron Paul Forums and Paid Disinformation Agents" from FSK's Guide to Reality. Ron Paul forums are particularly prone to attack.
http://fskrealityguide.bl...
Actually...
If you read up this thread a bit you will notice I didn't call you any names, yet you started lobbing names at me. I suspect you are leftist because they have a tendency of accusing others of doing the very things they do.
As for accusing me of disinformation, I'd say the opposite. Debate like the kind I offer pulls out the good information from the bad. You seem to have an a-priori belief that if someone disagrees with you they are "agents of disinformation". Not a good belief system if you purport to embrace truth.
I'm surprised the media here
I'm surprised the media here is even reporting it. Wouldn't want to give any freedom fighters here any ideas.
http://federalfallacy.blo...