"Debt" is an emotion

The concept of debt/obligation is a product of consciousness. Without conscious thought (self awareness), there can be no morality. Without morality, there can be no concept of obligation because it is a moral abstraction in thought.

The American Indians had no "concept" of individual land ownership, although they did have territorial boundaries.

emotion is a feeling
1. an affective state of consciousness in which joy, sorrow, fear, hate, or the like, is experienced, as distinguished from cognitive and volitional states of consciousness.
2. any of the feelings of joy, sorrow, fear, hate, love, etc.

debt is an obligation
1. something that is owed or that one is bound to pay to or perform for another: a debt of $50.

In other words debt is not even close to emotion,

wake up!

A global one month freeze on work and money exchange would jingle some power strings... With the internet this could be organized rather easily. It would show how ridiculous most of this slave labor is.

When people say they have "money in the bank" that is actually FALSE under the fractional reserve system. What they actually have is the bank's debt. That might seem like a hair-splitting distinction. It isn't. Its the reason we have an "economic cycle" of boom and bust.

Mike, I strongly suggest you read "The Mystery of Banking". Its a free download:

http://mises.org/Books/mysteryofbanking.pdf

“Education is dangerous - Every educated person is a future enemy”

“Of course people don’t want war. Why should a poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best thing he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece?”

-Hermann Goering.

But is nothing more than a highly emotionally charged idea.
Gold only has value because we believe it does just like that paper.

It is all only an idea and an emotion.
Nothing more ,, nothing less...

Is there a web site that is Earth based?

Morally, as libertarians like Harry Browne and Karen Kwaitkowski quoting earlier philosophers note that feeling morally indebted to authority, tradition, culture, et. are impediments to rationality and freedom.

Fiscally, playing the devil's advocate, debt is a blessing! Since money is a store of value and medium of exchange, debt is contrived wealth on the premise it can be repayed with interest tommorrow.

And if it can't? Just keep doubling-down and open a bank!

Isn't the matrix awesome?

Debt is not an emotion. I figured you knew better, Mike.

Jackasses in government also say that debt doesn't matter; that it's just a state of mind. People like that are liars. But if you want to believe liars, knock yourself out. After all, ignorance really is bliss.

Any such underhanded philosophy is simply a shifty con job. But, once again, if you want to subscribe to nonsensical "feel good" ideas, have fun.

--Cliff, Sioux City, Iowa
---------------------------------
December's song: Joy to the World by Mannheim Steamroller

Contractual obligations? Banks don’t follow them or they change the contract in their favor. Go ahead and let them continue to cheat and steal from you or stand up, no matter what the cost, because you are already dead.

What reason, other than threat of force or asset seizure do any of us have to ever pay a tax or a loan again? It has been proven that the Fed, the Congress, and even the Executive branch of the national gov, will illegally create money that doesn't exist when ever need be.

What reason is there to "pay" any back, they are going to create hyper-inflation any way, so why pay any "back", it wasn't there in the first place.

Mark my words, we will see this line of defense being used in the next year, and a case will make it to the Supreme Court, regarding the precedent of the gov/fed creating money out of nothing, and giving it to private enterprise, it will be a discrimination case more than likely, but the precedent has been set with the bailouts, and stimulus's, to not have to honor your debts.

(Sorry if I am rambling, some nit wit decided my front yard would be a good place to spot light deer last night, possible bullet in my neighbors house through the woods, and Sheriffs dept out all night, no sleep, I promise to make more sense latter)

Thank you Dr. Paul for making me act on what I already knew was right.

I would say that debt is simply a contractual obligation. How one feels about that obligation is however a matter of emotion. Matters raised in many comments about certain debts which may be based on unjust contracts are still certainly valid however.

That is my perception as well - how important is my freedom, to me...

IRS Suffers Defeat: Kahre tax trial: Wages Paid in Gold and Silver Coin
NEW 10/1/2007 6:49:35 AM
Most Commercial / Main Stream Media Blackout: 161 Federal Tax Charges, 0 Convictions

IRS Suffers Staggering Defeat in Kahre tax trial. Tax Questions Raised Regarding Gold and Silver Coins Used to Pay Wages
Around noon on Monday, September 17th, a Las Vegas federal jury returned its verdict refusing to convict nine defendants of any of the 161 federal tax crimes they had been charged with. The charges included income tax evasion, willful failure to file and conspiracy to evade taxes.

The four-month trial centered around the family businesses of Robert Kahre who paid numerous workers for their labor with circulating gold and silver U.S. coins, and did not report the wages. The payments took place over several years, allegedly totaling at least $114 million dollars.

On September 20, 2007, three days after the federal trial's dramatic conclusion, the Las Vegas Review Journal, reportedly under a degree of public pressure, ran its first (and last) story about the outcome of the trial. To this day, with exception of the single article by the Review Journal, no major media entity has published a news story regarding the outcome of this important federal criminal tax case.

The censorship of this important news story is, unfortunately, not unexpected given the continuing, worldwide onslaught against the U.S. "dollar" -- specifically the Federal Reserve variety, and the ever growing numbers of Federal Reserve Notes required to trade for an actual ounce of silver, gold, oil, or for that matter, anything.

In short, this failed prosecution has coalesced and exposed truths our Government desperately needs to hide from the People: the truth about our money, the truth about our (privately-owned) central bank, and the truth about the fraudulent nature of the operation and enforcement of the federal income tax system.

According to defense attorney Joel Hansen, who represented co-defendant Alex Loglia, the primary "willfulness" defense was that the defendants believed they had no legal obligation to withhold, pay income taxes or report anything to the government because, in part, the nominal (i.e., face value) of the gold and silver coins is so small as to fall beneath the reporting thresholds set by the Internal Revenue Code.

The Defendants also argued that regardless of the valuation of the coins for internal revenue purposes, there is no law that requires average American workers to file or pay direct, un-apportioned taxes on the fruits of their labor.

The Government argued that the payments in solid gold and silver U.S. coins must be considered at their bullion (i.e., intrinsic full-market) value when considering the worth of the wages for purposes of the internal revenue code.

Attorney Hansen cited two Supreme Court cases bolstering Defendant's monetary argument at the heart of the defendants "willfulness" defense.

The essence of the argument is that under the Constitution Congress is obligated by law to mint and circulate such coins as demand requires, and must establish the value of coins as they are used as legal tender, but the coins' market value, arising as valuable personal "property," is a distinct, separate attribute of such coins, and is of no legal consequence if the coins are used as legal tender.

In other words, if a worker is paid with such coins, his taxable "income" (if any) can only be the face value indicated upon the coin money paid -- i.e., $1.00 for a circulating silver dollar or $50 for a circulating gold U.S. coin. Not surprisingly, the IRS has never issued any public guidance regarding this significant issue.

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/10/366287.shtml

I "Feeeelll" you are correct, sir. Please have the heart to "give" me 10 grand.
Gratefully yours,
"..shall not be infringed."
LOL

I promise to make my payments unless I feel sad or premenstrual.

*****

Let the human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and dogmatism cannot confine it. John Adams

Mort - death

Gage - note

The dollar is a bill.

Not sure that makes much sense. You could say that about anything. Guilt is a feeling, sadness, embarrassment, remorse, etc... are also. These can all be attributed to the resulting feelings from doing anything immoral.

You could just as well say

"Besides a feeling of guilt, what else is "stealing" from anyone? I know there's force of law and threat of retaliation, but put that aside and theft is a feeling. I'm starting to feel like I should just rob people."

Replace “owing” with "murder" and "guilt" with r"emorse"...or with anything. Just because you don’t feel remorse doesn’t mean you can kill someone.

If you take money in good faith you pay that money back. I recognize that unforeseen circumstance can arise that causes a person to be unable to pay back a debt. But sadly there if far too much personal financial irresponsibility that is the cause of a person’s lack of ability to pay back a loan. I hear over and over again people tell me that can’t pay their bills and the first thing I ask is, How many channels do you get? They aren’t willing to do with less and are drenched in the entitlement mentality.

I realize that borrowing money is virtually a necessity for many things like cars and homes but plenty of people manage to find ways of being smart with their earnings to pay back the loan quickly or pay cash for them.

There are people who work hard to live within their means and some jerk comes along who doesn’t and makes it even harder on those who try and be responsible.

I have never financed a single car and it’s not because I am wealthy, I am borderline poor, but it’s because I was responsible with my money. I didn’t decide I needed every luxury in life regardless of being able to afford it. Too many people get a credit card then run out and buy everything they want then moan and whine about how they can’t pay their bills. I shed only tears of pity for such stupidity and foolishness and it does make me angry because its hurts everyone.

When you borrow money, be it a loan or using a credit card, you are taking something that you didn’t earn but was granted with the understanding that when you did have the earnings you would return it no matter what you might “feel”.

I don’t direct this at you personally but I am trying to address the subject of your post.

Correct you don't owe them anything. They deceive you into paying them principle and interest on money that does not exist. It's called a mortgage.

The only problem is all the sheep and so called officials believe the lie too so when you stop being deceived and decide to stop being their slave they will take your house. It's a grand deception the mafia wishes they had a scam this good.

-----
Only dead fish go with the flow...
Get Prepared!

The instinct to forage and gather has been manipulated to enslave.

Just like the instinct to procreate, security, the desire to belong...

All of these things are used to scam the masses. Even moral obligation or a sense of a higher purpose becomes another string for various cults and religions steer and guide their people.

The seat of power is that instinct overrides rational thinking. Control that wave of instinct in a country and you control that country.

This will never change and you can't stop it.

Think of a computer. It does what it does based on it's programming. You can scream at it and rip out the wires, but if you want it to do the 'right thing' you need to reprogram it.

You can only displace and replace what programming is there.

great posts everyone...

but how do you do things like run a business, pay for elecrticity, and get groceries/supplies when the cards are maxed, then late, house payments are late and then your credit score goes to hell...forclosure?...

...but what do we do if you run out of dollar 'bills' short of really roughing it or trying the souvernty route/UCC thingie?

it would have to be a massive unified protest to crush the banks.