Free Market Capitalism in...China?

keep the local SWAT team off your doorstep if you do something to piss off the 'leaders' we have here locally. Let the Chinese take care of themselves and go out and fight for liberty HERE. The Chinese don't care if you want them to be free. It's a nice sentiment but it is not going to bring you any closer to liberty in your life.

Informed Juries Save Lives

fija.org, go check it out

'Live for yourself, there's no one else more worth living for,
Begging hands and bleeding hearts
Will only cry out for more...'

Further down in the thread he posted: "Without economic freedom, individual liberty is diminished. Without individual liberty, economic freedom is diminished." I totally agree.

His passion, I think, comes from this "...But it is my country and I'll be damned if we're turned into Communist China while I still have breath." I support that sentiment.

I still maintain that free market capitalism is the mechanism that is transforming China. Less socialism means more liberty in every form. In the USA we are experiencing more socialism and less freedom. I think everyone on DP would agree that freedom and liberty are our goals.

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The problem is you are confusing capitalism with political communism. The Chinese form of communism is totally different than the Soviet model. The Chinese have actually separated much of the economic growth from government. They are two separate items.

Knowing this, we see the Chinese gov. doing horrible things to their people when it comes to human rights. On the other hand, they have allowed a leg-up for the poor farmer that wants to start a business of his own. They have literally allowed millions of Chinese farmers & poor people to make their own way.

By allowing businesses to grow without regulation or having a "license" and having low taxation. These people brought themselves out of rice fields and into the cities. They have a 30-40% personal savings rate and the quality of life has grown exponentially. They are a country of 1.3 Billion people and of course they are going to have problems. However, if this was the Soviet form of Communism, they would have collapsed years ago.

Now the Chinese people are paying for the US debt and own 1.3 Trillion in T-bills. That means that much of the road building, farm subsidies, welfare programs and wars, are payed for by the Chinese, Japanese & Saudi's.

From my standpoint, not only are WE not free in our own country, we owe huge debts to the people that we love to criticize so much. You should direct your attention to the USA, where we can "Hopefully" effect the outcome.

So you believe there is no free market capitalism in China. So what? There is also no free market capitalism in America. So unless you are a citizen of China, this should be irrelevant to you personally, as it is irrelevant to the 95% of visitors here, who live in North America.

Since you're not a citizen of China, and 99%+++ of the visitors to this site are not either, and therefore none of us can affect any change in China, what is the point of this thread other than to distract from what you could be doing?

So some random dude on another thread said "people...have risen out of poverty in China through free market capitalism," and it got stuck in your craw. Deal with it.

It is true that millions of people have risen out of poverty in China.
It is also true that wealthy Chinese enjoy what appears to be a free market economy.
It is also true that wealthy Americans enjoy what appears to be a free market economy.

Since you can't change anything in China, but presumably you could change something here in North America, why are you wasting your energy, and everyone's time with this?

If someone says that, i would think that they simply meant that it was increased economic freedom that is raising living standards. That it is the reduction of government control over the means of production that has contributed to this rise.

There is something called "the principle of charity" which you should exercise. It means, according to Wikipedia: "understanding a speaker's statements by interpreting the speaker's statements to be rational and, in the case of any argument, rendering the best, strongest possible interpretation of an argument. In its narrowest sense, the goal of this methodological principle is to avoid attributing irrationality, logical fallacies or falsehoods to the statements of others, when there is another coherent, rational interpretation of the statements."

If you would have employed the principle of charity, you could have avoided wasted your time writing this post and creating a straw man to attack. Everybody knows that China's economy is far from being a pure free market economy, the person who said that included I'm sure.

I have read many of your posts, and many of you are correct in your assessments, but you are not putting those assessments together to form a right picture.

Before the CCP came to power, China has always been an country of farmers and small businesses (personal/family) entrepreneurs. When the CCP came to power in 1949, they took away the liberty Chinese people had for the past 2000 years, that is to start their own business whenever and wherever they like. The so called "reform" in the 80s basically gave back the Chinese people the right to have personal business that they had for the past 2000 years. So in terms of the freedom to start business, yes, it's easier to start business in China than here. But what about all the regulations and stuff? All the regulations and bureaucracy, though, has to be overcomes with one things, that is money. Money is your pass to freedom in China. You have enough money, you can do anything you want. So Chinese, in the free spirit of entrepreneurism, uses their capital money and profit to ensure they stay above the regulations and the hassles of local gov't. Local government benefits from business activities also, so they developed such a partnership during the past 10 to 20 years. In the meanwhile, workers and common people become angrier and angrier as corruptions rage. So there has been many cases of civil unrest, riots and demonstrations. Chinese people usually are very peaceful and mind their own business. Only when they are being exploited and pressed beyond the chance to survive would they rise up to revolt, as our history shows. So you can safely conclude that the complains of the people has reached boiling points in many parts of the country.

But if you just look at Shanghai, Shengzhen or other coastal cities, you would not see the underlying problem. You need to go inland, to the place where people still live in conditions the same as 50 years ago. Shanghai is just a glamorous shell. Its inside is rotten to the core. High rise buildings are built within a year's time, but what kinds of material do they use? Don't ask! People are dissatisfied spiritually and the dominant philosophy is materialism. And is China still communist? No, no one believes in communism anymore. It's gov't is just a corrupted totalitarian, authoritarian, central government wearing a Communist outfit that would do anything to stay in power. So as long as you are not Christian, you are not against the government, you are not a threat to the government's hold on power, you are pretty much free to do things as you pleased.

So to answer your question, if China a free market capitalism? Not really, but it is pretty much free in the economical sense with few regulations you can't overcome and low tax rate. Is China Communist? No, it's just a totalitarian gov't.

There are now "NO' Nations that are FREEDOM LOVING NATIONS!!! Do You Not See this simple reality? Why do YOU think that Most (If not ALL) of the World looks to America & "AMERICANS" to Fight the NWO as it is today seen as the "ENEMY of "FREEDOM" for most if not "ALL COUNTRIES?" Only the elite seem to want a NWO. For the average Citizen, a NWO means MORE Taxes, Less Freedoms & Loss of human dignity as well as Loss of Civil Liberties. Most people donot wish to be SLAVES. We are seen as the countriy and the peoples to STOP it. in its tracks. What is preventing us from doing just that? It would appear that there are many whom just like to chat & talk....And it is quite apparent that our communist goverment KNOWS that there are MANY whom will "Protect Freedom" for our Families & Friends at all costs. One should ask ones own self, where do I stand? I KNOW where I stand.

Capitalism is a system where men exploit other men. Communism is the same system in reverse.

Free Market does not equate to Capitalism. Free Market, Free Market Capitalism. Those are 2 different systems. The Federal Reserve is made up of Capitalist. They suck wealth from the system without producing anything of value. What they do produce is debt, that enables them to suck even more wealth out of the system without any labor on their part. Socialist suck wealth from the system without producing anything. These Socialist disguise their theft with a Label and an Idea. Capitalism. "We take capital and put it to work to produce". But in fact the ONLY capital that can be put to work to produce is LABOR, not money. They use their illusion to con the people into slavery, just as the Communist do. Its important to understand, the same man that coined the term "Communism" is the same man that coined the term "Capitalism".

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"Ehhh, What's ups Doc?" Bugs Bunny
"Scwewy Wabbit!" Elmer Fudd

I thought you left. In a huff, if I recall - what, like a week ago?

How can we take anyone seriously who does not keep his word?

http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2002/08/01/repression-china-worse...

niceee, so you support labor unions?
Great, you're so capitalist, too bad labor unions are a part of socialist ideology.